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  1. #1
    Registered User Endythegrea's Avatar
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    Not losing any weight but losing body fat for 4 weeks now

    Just started getting back in the gym. I'm eating 2400 calories on a cut. 37 years old, 6'1 304... 30.5 percent BF. Problem is I'm not losing any weight but I'm losing body fat. split is 40/40/20. I've done this before, and I somewhat remember it taking 2 1/2 months or so to drop 2 lbs a week. I may have been eating less calories than the 2400. Energy levels are all right for the most part.

    I'm lifting heavy, losing a little strength or staying the same per week. I can tell I'm losing fat... jeans fit looser, shirts are a little tighter in the arms/shoulders. Is this normal? I've always found it very easy to cut when I work my ass off, but also easy to gain weight...

    Anyone else ever experience this? I'm questioning rather to cut my calories by about 200 or not. I'm doing 45-60 minutes of heavy weight low reps (4-6) except for abs, calfs etc... A 5 days split. 5 days of HIIT cardio for no more than 20 minutes.

    Supplementing with just Creatine, glutamine, Whey Protein. Little to no carbs after lunch... Am I just being impatient? Anyone else experience this when they began only losing body fat for over 2 months and no weight loss? I'm not really discouraged, just trying to get feedback.
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    pay the iron price SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    At 300 lbs, you should be losing weight rapidly. 4 weeks is not that long but I think we can discount water retention - I would guess that you are eating too many calories.

    You could cut this radically - by about 500 calories.

    Also, you should not be losing strength , even in an aggressive calorie deficit. Perhaps you training needs looking at.
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    At 300 lbs, you should be losing weight rapidly. 4 weeks is not that long but I think we can discount water retention - I would guess that you are eating too many calories.

    You could cut this radically - by about 500 calories.

    Also, you should not be losing strength , even in an aggressive calorie deficit. Perhaps you training needs looking at.
    My TDEE is 2918... I'm burning 500-600 calories at the gym each morning minimum, my fitbit says more than that. I'm naturally a muscular guy. I'm betting when I get to 12-15 percent BF I'm about 215 to 225... You don't think my calorie deficit is enough? My weight goes up and down a lot. I'm trying to not lose much muscle and burn fat. If I'm eating 1900 calories a day... I don't think I'm going to keep all of my strength and muscle.

    I'm in this for the long haul, so I'm not overly concerned about not adjusting for a while. last time I did this it took me 8 months to cut 50 lbs or so. I would say I didn't lose any muscle and may have even gained some then.
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  4. #4
    pay the iron price SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    There are a lot of sources of errors here...

    TDEE calculations that you get from fitbits or websites are just guesses. They are often over estimates in the case of heavier people.

    Amount of calorie burned during exercise is often over-egged too.

    I doubt you'll be lean at 215... that would the lean mass of a VERY advanced athlete (probably not drug free either). So your BF% is probably higher than you think.

    All you really have which is reliable is 4 weeks of weight data (scales are pretty accurate at measuring weight)... and if your weight has not really moved then you are not 500 calories below your TDEE.

    Of course, your counting of calories could be off too - if you aren't weighing and measuring everything. This is another very very common source of errors.
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    Registered User Endythegrea's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    There are a lot of sources of errors here...

    TDEE calculations that you get from fitbits or websites are just guesses. They are often over estimates in the case of heavier people.

    Amount of calorie burned during exercise is often over-egged too.

    I doubt you'll be lean at 215... that would the lean mass of a VERY advanced athlete (probably not drug free either). So your BF% is probably higher than you think.

    All you really have which is reliable is 4 weeks of weight data (scales are pretty accurate at measuring weight)... and if your weight has not really moved then you are not 500 calories below your TDEE.

    Of course, your counting of calories could be off too - if you aren't weighing and measuring everything. This is another very very common source of errors.
    I'm measuring everything... cooking oils etc., Not being too strict on the macros besides making sure I get enough protein and fat. If I don't lose anything in the next week or two... I'll cut 400 calories down to 1800-2000 and see what happens. It's just been so long since I've done this I don't remember how my body responded last time. I'm pretty sure I didn't lose anything for 2.5 months even eating less than 2000 calories. I wasn't as heavy last time I cut so my caloric intake wasn't the same. It was like 10 years ago... hard to remember.
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    what kind of workouts are you doing? if you are doing pretty hard muscle building type workouts then u might simply be "recomping". In other words gaining muscle and losing fat at the same time....so the scale doesnt move much but u see changes in the body etc. This happened to me when I recently got back in the gym after several years away.

    Well actually I didnt try to cut right away even though my bodyfat% was at like 33% lol. I actually set out at first to build UP my calories and I gained 10lbs but my bodyfat % went down .5%. Arms bigger, waist smaller etc.


    Personally i question the calories being 2400. For a guy your size that seems way low. As mentioned above, maybe your bf% you stated is incorrect? How did u measure it? At 300lbs and 30% (I rounded off) youd have like 210lbs of lean body mass. Which is a freaking lot. This is why 2400 seems low to me.

    tell us how you got that 30.5% number. is it off of a scale? I know people will trash the idea, but if I were you I would go get a dexa scan or at least a bodpod or inbody scan or hydrostatic testing or something similar. If i were serious id probably get tested by 2 or 3 different methods to get a comparison so id have a better idea of where I actually was.

    Me, i use scale and handheld impedance meter everyday and I track it. people can put it down all they want but if I get useful info from it, cest la vie.

    you can also use this quicky test using measurements https://www.freedieting.com/body-fat-calculator


    in any case, 2400 seems low for such a big active guy. Lets say u cut to 2000-2200....what then? gonna stay there for a while then cut to 1800, then 1600??

    Im at about 231, 30.3% this morning. Im starting the 8th week of a cut and this week ill probably be on around 2450isg calories. Ive lost about 1.3lbs per week. I started the cut on about 2700. Before that I had done a 12 week mass phase (when I first got back seriously lifting) and had built my calories up to like 3650 over those 12 weeks. this is when i gained muscle and my fat stayed about the same or slightly decreased. I did a 4 week maintenance phase before I started my cut and i was maintaining my weight on like 3500 calories

    I mean, im no coach but id rather almost see you eat at maintenance for a while and try to build your calories back up a bit, while establishing strong gym habits. Id guess youd gain significant muscle mass during that phase. THEN go into your cut starting from those elevated calories.

    Others can chime in but it sounds like a sluggish metabolism to me. I know the word "metabolism" is probably a flame war ready to start lol. cest la vie


    I just question your path from 300 down to, say, 200...if you are starting at 2400 calories. Is it practical to think you will end up at 1000 calories??


    in any case, if it were me id get more bodyfat testing done to at least get a truer indication of my true starting point
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    Registered User Endythegrea's Avatar
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    I got my BF percentage by using calipers. It may be more like 34-35 percent, maybe even higher, I just try to measure the same each time when I take them in the three different areas. I actually lost about 35 lbs by just quitting drinking, and eating at a deficit before this. So water weight is pretty much gone IMO.

    I'm doing heavy compound exercises and working out different body parts each day Deadlifts, squats, bench press, rows etc. 4-6 reps 80 percent of my one rep max basically. 5 day splits... and then HIIT cardio 5 days a week, sometimes after workout, sometimes later at night. I get most of my carbs pre and post workout. Pretty much just veggies or fruit after noon.

    So the reason I ask this question is because I'm a naturally built thick muscular guy. I believe I'm recomping too… actually I know I'm recomping and I too was concerned I wasn't eating enough. I'm not dead in the gym but I don't have a ton of energy either... I can literally already see my body changing week to week which is quicker than it was before. The question really was has anyone experienced putting on muscle for 2 and a half months and not lost any weight and not making any adjustments and then the fat starts melting away? I haven't lifted in years.

    The lowest I got down last time was to 225... no six pack but I was jacked... like NFL linebacker looking jacked, and I don't remember what my BF % was then. I want to say around 12-15 percent. I feel like my body naturally can put on muscle and lose fat moreso than most body types. I'm lucky in that aspect.

    Goal weight is 205. I was just curious if anyone has ever experienced this before. You read about not losing weight for a week or two... but not 2 and a half months! Thanks for the feedback and comments guys!
    Last edited by Endythegrea; 12-02-2019 at 01:23 PM.
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    Originally Posted by John Prophet View Post
    I mean, im no coach but id rather almost see you eat at maintenance for a while and try to build your calories back up a bit, while establishing strong gym habits. Id guess youd gain significant muscle mass during that phase. THEN go into your cut starting from those elevated calories.
    Bingo. This is what I'd do, too.

    Originally Posted by John Prophet View Post
    Others can chime in but it sounds like a sluggish metabolism to me. I know the word "metabolism" is probably a flame war ready to start lol. cest la vie
    Oh snap ***shots fired***
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    Originally Posted by rtpmarine View Post
    Bingo. This is what I'd do, too.

    So eat 3700 calories and see what happens? For how long? Then how much would you recommend cutting down? What's the thought process/theory behind this? I've never purposefully ate that many calories before, that doesn't mean I haven't on average taken that amount in though... obviously I have since I weight 305 lbs...
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    So much wrong is this thread...

    Telling someone that is already obese and not losing weight to increase their calories is foolish, OP is obviously not tracking everything or is making major errors somewhere. First off, OP you're not eating 2400 calories and not dropping weight, there is no way. You're not even in a deficit if you haven't lost any weight in 3-4 weeks. Someone would have to eat well over 3000 calories a day just to maintain 300+ lbs. You should cut calories by 500 per day and even more if required until you're dropping 2-3 lbs per week.
    Last edited by xsquid99; 12-02-2019 at 02:51 PM.
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    The number of 3700 calories is arbitrary -- what matters is the movement of the scale. What you want to do is find the number of daily calories that keeps you as level as possible on the scale. This is your true TDEE, regardless of any calculation of weight or activity or whatever. Then you manipulate your daily calorie intake as needed to either lose weight, gain weight, or maintain weight.

    If your TDEE turns out to be 3700 calories, then you probably want to just drop 500 calories every day and start losing weight right away. If your TDEE is truly 2500 or lower, then dropping it by 500 is not a good long-term plan. It will work for a few weeks, maybe even a few months, but then the weight loss will slow/stop. You'll have to drop the calories even further, and then continue to repeat that cycle over and over until you go insane.

    The better way to handle that latter situation (which is totally common by the way) is not to restrict calories but instead start making the little choices that put your metabolism back together. Eating healthy whole foods, avoiding processed foods, resistance training regularly, cardio training occasionally -- these are things that are guaranteed to increase your TDEE given enough time and consistency.
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    Originally Posted by xsquid99 View Post
    So much wrong is this thread...

    Telling someone that is already obese and not losing weight to increase their calories is foolish,
    it would be except for the fact that people do it and it works. Its to establish a base and develop good habits. Exact thing I did a few months back and it set me up nicely for the cut I am now on. I didnt get fatter, I just simply gained muscle. And not trying to "appeal to authority" but the same thing was recommended in a book by John Parillo (High Performance Bodybuilding) many years back. He recommended that no matter how fat you were, start off by trying to actually gain weight. Obviously this is just for a short period etc

    telling a 300lb guy who claims to be on 2400 to drop 500 more.....now THATS a good one
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    Registered User Endythegrea's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by xsquid99 View Post
    So much wrong is this thread...

    Telling someone that is already obese and not losing weight to increase their calories is foolish, OP is obviously not tracking everything or is making major errors somewhere. First off, OP you're not eating 2400 calories and not dropping weight, there is no way. You're not even in a deficit if you haven't lost any weight in 3-4 weeks. Someone would have to eat well over 3000 calories a day just to maintain 300+ lbs. You should cut calories by 500 per day and even more if required until you're dropping 2-3 lbs per week.
    There's no way I'm eating more than 3000 calories a day even if I'm not tracking it right. I'm not gaining and I'm not losing it but I'm changing in the mirror. Pants and shirt are fitting looser. Weight is going up and down from 304 to 309.
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    Originally Posted by rtpmarine View Post
    Oh snap ***shots fired***
    haha. no shots fired. I just mean that I have been out of the bodybuilding game for a few years so I dont know the current state of whats considered "bro science" this week. I havent had time to figure it out yet but i saw in a couple vids or podcasts where people rolled their eyes at the very word "metabolism". I guess now there is no such thing as a metabolism? Like i said, im not sure of this weeks "evidence based" opinion lol
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    Originally Posted by xsquid99 View Post
    So much wrong is this thread...
    OP is obviously not tracking everything or is making major errors somewhere. First off, OP you're not eating 2400 calories and not dropping weight, there is no way. You're not even in a deficit if you haven't lost any weight in 3-4 weeks. Someone would have to eat well over 3000 calories a day just to maintain 300+ lbs.
    this much I agree with and this is exactly why i said I questioned the 2400 calorie number. Something is amiss somewhere
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    Originally Posted by xsquid99 View Post
    So much wrong is this thread...

    Telling someone that is already obese and not losing weight to increase their calories is foolish, OP is obviously not tracking everything or is making major errors somewhere. First off, OP you're not eating 2400 calories and not dropping weight, there is no way. You're not even in a deficit if you haven't lost any weight in 3-4 weeks. Someone would have to eat well over 3000 calories a day just to maintain 300+ lbs. You should cut calories by 500 per day and even more if required until you're dropping 2-3 lbs per week.

    ^^^This is correct.

    You are not in a deficit. Weight would be falling off if you were!
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    Originally Posted by Endythegrea View Post
    There's no way I'm eating more than 3000 calories a day even if I'm not tracking it right. I'm not gaining and I'm not losing it but I'm changing in the mirror. Pants and shirt are fitting looser. Weight is going up and down from 304 to 309.
    tracking the waist measurment can be a key indicator. Maybe that and butt. Just be consistent on how they r measured etc. if your waist is getting smaller but the scale isnt moving then u may be recomping.

    One of the conditions where recomping can happen is in obese peopel and also people who havent been lifting religiously. Sounds like you fit both of those conditions so u r a prime candidate to recomp

    I would deffo double up on my tracking game to make sure you KNOW your calorie intake
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    Originally Posted by 284Shooter View Post
    ^^^This is correct.

    You are not in a deficit. Weight would be falling off if you were!
    Ok, I'll get OCD with it and weigh every single thing to 2400 calories... I've been tracking everything food wise on fitbit… scanning barcodes etc. I haven't been eating processed anything. All lean protein, oatmeal, milk, whey, strawberries, rice/brown rice, veggies... peanut butter...

    Guys, I've done this before. It's just been a while and I'm 10 years older. I'm doing exactly what I did before.
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    Harsh Truth Distributor xsquid99's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Endythegrea View Post
    Ok, I'll get OCD with it and weigh every single thing to 2400 calories... I've been tracking everything food wise on fitbit… scanning barcodes etc. I haven't been eating processed anything. All lean protein, oatmeal, milk, whey, strawberries, rice/brown rice, veggies... peanut butter...

    Guys, I've done this before. It's just been a while and I'm 10 years older. I'm doing exactly what I did before.
    Milk and peanut butter are both high calorie foods that I would never include in my cutting diet (unless its almond milk). Especially because people can't measure PB for chit, they scoop out 2 huge overflowing tablespoons and think that's a serving, which its not. At 2400 calories a day if you're not hungry for most of the day you are definitely eating more than you think.
    All it takes is consistency, effort, proper nutrition, good programming, and TIME.
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    Registered User 284Shooter's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Endythegrea View Post
    Ok, I'll get OCD with it and weigh every single thing to 2400 calories... I've been tracking everything food wise on fitbit… scanning barcodes etc. I haven't been eating processed anything. All lean protein, oatmeal, milk, whey, strawberries, rice/brown rice, veggies... peanut butter...

    Guys, I've done this before. It's just been a while and I'm 10 years older. I'm doing exactly what I did before.
    It’s not magic, try 1900 a day for 2-4 weeks, see what happens.

    I am 6’3”, was 274# in july, I have an active job, and I wouldn’t expect to lose much at 2400 cal a day. Down to 230# right now and still dropping weight. Not eating over 2000, most of the time under 1600. Not suggesting that, but it’s what I want to do.
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    Originally Posted by xsquid99 View Post
    Milk and peanut butter are both high calorie foods that I would never include in my cutting diet (unless its almond milk). Especially because people can't measure PB for chit, they scoop out 2 huge overflowing tablespoons and think that's a serving, which its not. At 2400 calories a day if you're not hungry for most of the day you are definitely eating more than you think.
    I put one tablespoon in my oatmeal and the milk is going in my protein shake... half pre-workout half post workout... it's one cup of milk. I get at least 60 percent of my carbs in my first three meals.

    I'm pretty sure I'm putting on muscle and losing fat at the same time. I'll know more in about 2 months. This is what happened last time I cut like this, it took me 2.5 month's to start dropping weight. I don't think most people can do this... Regardless I'm going to keep doing what I'm doing unless I don't drop any weight in another month and a half. I'm measuring my BF percentage weekly, so we'll see if that's changing at all.

    I'll start measuring what I'm already eating with a scale too. I know the importance of being dialed in when cutting. I don't wake up and go to the gym at 4:30 AM to cheat myself. I really asked the question to see if anyone else has had a similar experience. I think all of you have pretty much answered that question. I could knock my calories down and probably lose weight and possibly maintain my muscle... I'll try to update the post weekly with my progress.

    I calculate my cutting diet to be 2652... based off of .8 grams per pound protein, .7 grams of carbs, and .3 grams of fat. I'm strict with my protein intake and don't care where I get the fat/carbs from as long as the calories figure out to be 2400... They are from good sources, but I'm making sure I get enough protein and don't worry about the fat/carb macro percentage as much. With that said the target is still within 100 calories of 2400 plus or minus.

    Take note that I was borderline diabetic too... I've reversed that in the last 6 months, and lowered my cholesterol and triglycerides to normal levels. Same as my sugar levels. I was eating really low carb, and have upped my carb intake since I started lifting a bunch. We'll see how all of that is impacted with my increased carb intake after I get my blood taken in 3 months.
    Last edited by Endythegrea; 12-02-2019 at 06:02 PM.
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    Originally Posted by 284Shooter View Post
    It’s not magic, try 1900 a day for 2-4 weeks, see what happens.

    I am 6’3”, was 274# in july, I have an active job, and I wouldn’t expect to lose much at 2400 cal a day. Down to 230# right now and still dropping weight. Not eating over 2000, most of the time under 1600. Not suggesting that, but it’s what I want to do.
    It's what I'll be doing if the weight doesn't start dropping off. I can literally see my muscles getting larger and I'm not gaining any weight... which I'm taking as I'm burning fat and gaining muscle. Time will tell, I've got no problem cutting them down. I'm hungry the majority of the day. I literally try to find the sweet spot where I'm losing weight and not muscle too.
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    The more I marinate on this the more I'm leaning towards eating my maintenance for a few months and then cutting. I'm going to give it another 8 weeks and then make a decision. Regardless, I'll update the thread with progress for others to see. This morning I'm at 306.
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    If it were me, I would make losing weight a priority. For health reasons if nothing else.

    You don't need to worry about lean mass loss at 300+lbs - that's the kind of thing that might concern someone going down to single digit bodyfat... moderate deficit and adequate protein and resistance training is all you need IMO.
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    I would like to verify that when you say you are eating 2400 calories, you mean that is the amount consumed in a day. Not the amount consumed minus the calories burned at the gym. Are you weighing yourself first thing in the morning (after using the bathroom)? Also, pics would help verify your body fat estimate.

    On a side note, good job reducing the diabetic risk.
    Back at it again after being away from the forums for a few years. Was 280+ at the beginning of the year (290 on Dec 13, 2018).

    Oct 16, 2019...229.0
    Oct 23, 2019...223.0
    Oct 30, 2019...221.0
    Nov 06, 2019...218.8
    Nov 13, 2019...216.2
    Nov 20, 2019...214.4
    Nov 27, 2019...211.8
    Dec 04, 2019...209.6
    Dec 11, 2019...208.2

    Jan 1 goal: 202.0 (an appropriate number to start 2020)
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    Originally Posted by Maverick2015 View Post
    I would like to verify that when you say you are eating 2400 calories, you mean that is the amount consumed in a day. Not the amount consumed minus the calories burned at the gym. Are you weighing yourself first thing in the morning (after using the bathroom)? Also, pics would help verify your body fat estimate.

    On a side note, good job reducing the diabetic risk.
    On average, I'm eating 2200 to 2500 calories a day. I'm not using the bathroom first thing in the morning every day... which is another issue. I'm following Mike Mathews formula basically. My arms, chest, and shoulders are visibly getting more muscular and leaner... That's generally the first place I notice fat loss. I think i'm honestly putting on a pound or two of muscle every week or two right now. Once I level out with that I think I'll start dropping weight. I have much more muscle mass than the average fat guy that decides to start going to the gym out of the blue.

    I'll take a few pics this evening when I get home and post them to my bodyspace.
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    If it were me, I would make losing weight a priority. For health reasons if nothing else.

    You don't need to worry about lean mass loss at 300+lbs - that's the kind of thing that might concern someone going down to single digit bodyfat... moderate deficit and adequate protein and resistance training is all you need IMO.
    Why would I not want to build muscle and lose fat at the same time if that's what I'm doing? My blood pressure, sugar, and cholesterol are ALL at normal levels already.
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    Originally Posted by Endythegrea View Post
    I think i'm honestly putting on a pound or two of muscle every week or two right now.
    Yeah . . . No. That's super fast. 1 lb/week would be an outlier itself but maybe possible. No way you are gaining 2 pounds/week, that is freak level.

    Maybe briefly list a typical day of eating and what your lifts are? Something is not computing.
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    Originally Posted by broganoff View Post
    Yeah . . . No. That's super fast. 1 lb/week would be an outlier itself but maybe possible. No way you are gaining 2 pounds/week, that is freak level.

    Maybe briefly list a typical day of eating and what your lifts are? Something is not computing.
    Yeah, I read more and there's no way. Here's a sample of my lifts and eating.. I'm doing a 5 day split. Chest/abs, Back/calves, Shoulders/traps, Legs, arms/abs

    - Chest

    Flat Barbell Bench Press One warm up set 50 60 70 percent of my one rep max... 4-6 reps

    Normal set 4-6 of the above x 3 the 4-6 sets are as much weight as I can do to do no more than 6.

    Incline Bench Press same as above.

    Dips 3 sets 4-6 reps weighted (not there yet)

    Abs... Cable Crunch 3 sets 4-6 reps or to failure

    Captains chair leg raises to failure weighted

    Air bicycles to burnout

    HIIT for 15-20 minutes after lifting for 4 days a week.

    I'm doing compound exercise... deadlifts, rows, etc and lifting heavy.

    Typical day of meals looks like this:

    Preworkout Amino Lean 5 scoops zero calories:
    Preworkout shake: Whey, 4 strawberries, half a cub of milk, creatine, glutamine.
    Post Workout shake: Same

    Total calories: 565

    Morning snack: 2 tbsp. Peanut Butter and Steel cut oats

    Total calories: 410

    Lunch: Chicken Breast, Brown Rice, Spinach, Feta cheese

    Total calories: 625

    Dinner: Chicken and Veggies, Brown Rice

    Total calories: 558

    Total calories= 2,158

    I eat fish, chicken, and red meat once or twice week. sirloin or flank steak. I'm just punching it in on the fitbit app and measuring servings if not in packets/on the box. I should have a scale to start measuring protein tomorrow.
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    I should've been more specific when I said "what your lifts are". What I meant was, what are squat/bench/dead'ing for 4-6 reps? That should give us an idea of how much muscle you might have.

    Also, as you may have implied at the bottom of your post, move towards weighing food down to the gram. Volumetric/eyeballing can be deceiving. Especially with peanut butter, cheese, and any sort of liquid calories.
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