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  1. #31
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    I mean we have way lower taxes now than we did in the 1980s, more robust protections for gun ownership, restrictions on abortions. Etc. This is a false narrative.
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    Originally Posted by BrightThru2014 View Post
    I mean we have way lower taxes now than we did in the 1980s, more robust protections for gun ownership, restrictions on abortions. Etc. This is a false narrative.
    Lower taxes, good one dude. Stricter gun laws are coming, so will pro abortion laws. The left is set to have a stranglehold on power soon. I can point you to Pew Research polls about attitudes regarding these topics.
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    They will never take our guns.
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  4. #34
    Registered User BrightThru2014's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DukeOfWoodBerry View Post
    Lower taxes, good one dude. Stricter gun laws are coming, so will pro abortion laws. The left is set to have a stranglehold on power soon. I can point you to Pew Research polls about attitudes regarding these topics.
    Okay. But as of right now we have seen a reversal on these issues, I can't pretend to know what the future holds but the underlying premise is false.

    https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/...n-on-abortion/

    Opinions are abortion are largely unchanged since 1995, and prior to Trump's election in 2015, significantly more restrictionist than 1995.

    https://news.gallup.com/poll/1645/guns.aspx

    Public opinion on gun control is significantly more libertarian in 2019 than than it was in 1991.

    Like I said above, this is a false defeatist narrative, the arc of history bends towards Truth, I wouldn't worry about it.
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  5. #35
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    This is the result of the differing mindsets between the two. Right leaning people, specifically non religious, etc generally want to be left alone, that way of thinking leaves a big void to fill which quickly gets filled by those who believe just the opposite, generally very left leaning people.

    The biggest advantage the hard left has is controlling the ivy league system, which produces industry leaders in about every occupation. Unless that gets completely dismantled, then it only gets worse, as those institutions went form turning out liberals to a growing percentage of outright communists now.
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    Originally Posted by BrightThru2014 View Post
    Okay. But as of right now we have seen a reversal on these issues, I can't pretend to know what the future holds but the underlying premise is false.

    https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/...n-on-abortion/

    Opinions are abortion are largely unchanged since 1995, and prior to Trump's election in 2015, significantly more restrictionist than 1995. Like I said above, this is a false defeatist narrative, the arc of history bends towards Truth, I wouldn't worry about it.
    This is why people who don't understand the changing demographics are almost always wrong. Everything moving forward has to be 100% based off that first before any type of prediction can be made.
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  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by BrightThru2014 View Post
    Okay. But as of right now we have seen a reversal on these issues, I can't pretend to know what the future holds but the underlying premise is false.

    https://www.pewforum.org/fact-sheet/...n-on-abortion/

    Opinions are abortion are largely unchanged since 1995, and prior to Trump's election in 2015, significantly more restrictionist than 1995. Like I said above, this is a false defeatist narrative, the arc of history bends towards Truth, I wouldn't worry about it.
    Dude that source says abortion support is at 61% and rising, you can see at on the chart. I can see you're a little naive so let me break it down for you. There is only one demographic group in this country that is conservative. That group is rapidly diminishing. That means conservatism is dead in the near future.

    Trump and some of his social conservatism is mostly a last gasp.
    Last edited by DukeOfWoodBerry; 11-22-2019 at 10:17 AM.
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  8. #38
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    Originally Posted by DukeOfWoodBerry View Post
    Dude that chart says abortion support is at 61% and rising, you can see at on the chart. I can see you're a little naive so let me break it down for you. There is only one demographic group in this country that is conservative. That group is rapidly diminishing. That means conservatism is dead in the near future.
    It's literally identical to what it was in 1995, and lower prior to the polarization of the Trump presidency. I edited my original post to include opinions on gun control, and it is significantly more libertarian now than it was in 1991.

    As for demographics, of the five Whitest states in the United States (Vermont, Maine, West Virginia, New Hampshire, Iowa), three voted for Hillary Clinton and four have Democratic Senators. Of the five least Whitest states in the United States (Hawaii, Maryland, Mississipi, Georgia, Louisiana), three voted for Trump. First-generation Cuban Americans vote overwhelmingly vote conservative, third-generation lean towards Democrats. Ideas matter.
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  9. #39
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    By definition, a conservative party will always want things to stay the same (or go back to how they used to be) and a progressive party will always want things to change (or...wait for it...progress).
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    Originally Posted by BrightThru2014 View Post
    It's literally identical to what it was in 1995, and lower prior to the polarization of the Trump presidency. I edited my original post to include opinions on gun control, and it is significantly more libertarian now than it was in 1991.

    As for demographics, of the five Whitest states in the United States (Vermont, Maine, West Virginia, New Hampshire, Iowa), three voted for Hillary Clinton and four have Democratic Senators. First-generation Cuban Americans vote overwhelmingly vote conservative, third-generation lean towards Democrats. Ideas matter.
    Cubans, picking out the single exception to the mountains of evidence proving you're wrong. Nice TPUSA talking point. Cringe bro. I can show you a breakdown on what demographics support a pro life and pro gun position. Spoiler, it's the demographic that's shrinking. All your posting is the last gasp of a dying America. Unless you can show me some polls about minorities supporting these positions?

    That's the difference. White people can be malleable on these issues. Other groups aren't. So your evidence of the pendulum swinging back and forth really doesn't apply to the new America.
    Last edited by DukeOfWoodBerry; 11-22-2019 at 10:29 AM.
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  11. #41
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    Originally Posted by yeshli2nuts View Post
    By definition, a conservative party will always want things to stay the same (or go back to how they used to be) and a progressive party will always want things to change (or...wait for it...progress).
    LOL @ 'progress'

    The only 'progress' the leaders of the so-called 'progressive' movement in the US today are achieving is the intentional creation of all sorts of harmful problems and the overall destruction of American humanity.

    Destroying a country with a coordinated conspiracy of demoralization propaganda against it such as cultural Marxism, treasonously aiding and abetting foreign invasions and robbing working Americans to pay those foreign invaders, subverting free press and gov and business systems, teaching Americans to hate themselves instead of being patriotic, removing citizens' right to effective militia, intentional demoralization of a country's religion and family systems, etc etc is -not- progress but rather the exact opposite of progress - destruction.
    "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
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  12. #42
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    Originally Posted by DukeOfWoodBerry View Post
    Cubans, picking out the single exception to the mountains of evidence proving you're wrong. Nice TPUSA talking point. Cringe bro. I can show you a breakdown on what demographics support a pro life and pro gun position. Spoiler, it's the demographic that's shrinking. All your posting is the last gasp of a dying America. Unless you can show me some polls about minorities supporting these positions?

    That's the difference. White people can be malleable on these issues. Other groups aren't. So your evidence of the pendulum swinging back and forth really doesn't apply to the new America.
    I mean Hispanics and African-Americans are more socially conservative than White Americans:



    And overall support for gay marriage has been decreasing from its peak in 2018:



    Generation Z is the most diverse in American history, and looks to be the most conservative since WWII:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleys.../#7ae90d6d7878
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    Originally Posted by BrightThru2014 View Post
    I mean Hispanics and African-Americans are more socially conservative than White Americans:



    And overall support for gay marriage has been decreasing from its peak in 2018:

    Interesting. I would think support for gay marriage would have a negative correlation with support of the nuclear family and I would think blacks have very low support of the nuclear family while hispanics have very high support of the nuclear family. (no racist)
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  14. #44
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    The issue isn't demographics, it's 1) the volume of immigrants is too high for effective assimilation; 2) the quality of immigrants (many are uneducated) mean that the majority will be net fiscal drains on the treasury. There will still be hundreds of millions of white Americans in North America for the next few centuries, it'll be fine, and if anything White privilege will become magnified as Whiteness becomes more rare (see all of South America for more information).

    You want to win this political fight, focus on the above points. You can sway minorities, once they are assimilated, and as long as they are higher IQ and education, the country will prosper. We're on the same side here but your way has no political viability.
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    Originally Posted by BrightThru2014 View Post
    I mean Hispanics and African-Americans are more socially conservative than White Americans:



    And overall support for gay marriage has been decreasing from its peak in 2018:



    Generation Z is the most diverse in American history, and looks to be the most conservative since WWII:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleys.../#7ae90d6d7878
    Pick one:

    Diverse

    Conservative

    Trump, Like Romney, and all R get about ~22% of the non white vote. Updated polling showed Trump got less than 25% of the latino vote and even less than that of the highly educated asian/indian vote.(2 fastest growing immigrant groups) The R has an historic avg of about 30% latino vote since 1980.
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    Originally Posted by RIKTER View Post
    Pick one:

    Diverse

    Conservative

    Trump, Like Romney, and all R get about ~22% of the non white vote. Updated polling showed Trump got less than 25% of the latino vote and even less than that of the highly educated asian/indian vote.(2 fastest growing immigrant groups) The R has an historic avg of about 30% latino vote since 1980.
    In politics you need to convince groups why they should vote for you, even where they have certain underlying conservative leanings. African-Americans used to vote 50-50 between the parties, Italians, Irish, etc. used to vote predominantly Democrat. Also keep in mind that minorities are disproportionately poor, and to an extent they vote for Democrats in the same way that poor people of all stripes overwhelmingly vote for Democrats. I can't find the study, but if I recall correctly Hispanics who make over $100k vote identically to White Americans.

    Assimilation, ideas, and economic prosperity matter. Take in far less and only highly educated immigrants, and the GOP and our American experiment will be back on track within 1-2 generations.

    Also white women are the most racist group when it comes to mate selection out there. You're going to be okay, and will have additional multiplier bonuses with the minority girls.
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    Originally Posted by BrightThru2014 View Post
    The issue isn't demographics, it's 1) the volume of immigrants is too high for effective assimilation; 2) the quality of immigrants (many are uneducated) mean that the majority will be net fiscal drains on the treasury. There will still be hundreds of millions of white Americans in North America for the next few centuries, it'll be fine, and if anything White privilege will become magnified as Whiteness becomes more rare (see all of South America for more information).

    You want to win this political fight, focus on the above points. You can sway minorities, once they are assimilated, and as long as they are higher IQ and education, the country will prosper. We're on the same side here but your way has no political viability.
    Hard to read anything after that.

    1988: ~60% of the white vote meant R winning 40 states/426 electoral votes and getting 7 million more votes than the D
    2102: ~60% of the white vote meant R winning 24 states/206 electoral votes and losing by 5 million votes to the D.

    If the 2012 election had 1988 demos, Romney crushes Obama(Obama never would of been the nominee) whats changed is the tens of millions of mostly hard left LEGAL immigrant voters that have been added to the rolls. Pick just about any red state and drop this years crop of LEGAL immigrants in there and watch it turn blue the next election.
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    Originally Posted by BrightThru2014 View Post
    The issue isn't demographics, it's 1) the volume of immigrants is too high for effective assimilation; 2) the quality of immigrants (many are uneducated) mean that the majority will be net fiscal drains on the treasury. There will still be hundreds of millions of white Americans in North America for the next few centuries, it'll be fine, and if anything White privilege will become magnified as Whiteness becomes more rare (see all of South America for more information).

    You want to win this political fight, focus on the above points. You can sway minorities, once they are assimilated, and as long as they are higher IQ and education, the country will prosper. We're on the same side here but your way has no political viability.
    No, quality of immigrants is a big talking point from Conservative Inc that isn't based on evidence. Look at how strongly Indians vote Democrat. Huge majorties, I can look up the numbers later but it's something like 80%. The evidence shows that Asians actually get more liberal as they assimilate more.

    The gay marriage stuff was interesting. White people have become very cringe on that issue. I appreciate you backing up your arguments with numbers at least, I rarely see that here.
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    All great nations and empires eventually crumble from within, and it's mostly from left-minded policies and practices. Just look at history.

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    Originally Posted by DukeOfWoodBerry View Post
    No, quality of immigrants is a big talking point from Conservative Inc that isn't based on evidence. Look at how strongly Indians vote Democrat. Huge majorties, I can look up the numbers later but it's something like 80%. The evidence shows that Asians actually get more liberal as they assimilate more.

    The gay marriage stuff was interesting. White people have become very cringe on that issue. I appreciate you backing up your arguments with numbers at least, I rarely see that here.
    Assimilation doesn't work when there are such huge constant influxes of new immigrants, without a subsequent ebb in immigration during which assimilation occurs. I would predict that Indians won't vote Democrat if they feel more assimilated, and especially once they begin to understand that the Left just wants to continuously tax them. These things take a few generations.

    Originally Posted by RIKTER View Post
    Hard to read anything after that.

    1988: ~60% of the white vote meant R winning 40 states/426 electoral votes and getting 7 million more votes than the D
    2102: ~60% of the white vote meant R winning 24 states/206 electoral votes and losing by 5 million votes to the D.

    If the 2012 election had 1988 demos, Romney crushes Obama(Obama never would of been the nominee) whats changed is the tens of millions of mostly hard left LEGAL immigrant voters that have been added to the rolls. Pick just about any red state and drop this years crop of LEGAL immigrants in there and watch it turn blue the next election.
    Republicans and Democrats were far closer politically, especially with respect to social issues in 1988. Romney would have never gotten 60% of the White vote back then, this is just as much about political polarization as it is about demographics.
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    Originally Posted by BrightThru2014 View Post
    Assimilation doesn't work when there are such huge constant influxes of new immigrants, without a subsequent ebb in immigration during which assimilation occurs. I would predict that Indians won't vote Democrat if they feel more assimilated, and especially once they begin to understand that the Left just wants to continuously tax them. These things take a few generations.
    You might want to rethink your position on assimilation always being possible. Blacks have been in this country for hundreds of years and they still haven't assimilated with white culture. They have a distinct, unique culture. The same is true for Native Americans. In my view, assimilation into a white, European culture isn't really possible for other groups. A multiracial society means a multicultural society.
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    Stop importing low skilled Democrats and welfare leeches and the problem will solve itself
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    Originally Posted by BrightThru2014 View Post
    The issue isn't demographics, it's 1) the volume of immigrants is too high for effective assimilation; 2) the quality of immigrants (many are uneducated) mean that the majority will be net fiscal drains on the treasury. There will still be hundreds of millions of white Americans in North America for the next few centuries, it'll be fine, and if anything White privilege will become magnified as Whiteness becomes more rare (see all of South America for more information).

    You want to win this political fight, focus on the above points. You can sway minorities, once they are assimilated, and as long as they are higher IQ and education, the country will prosper. We're on the same side here but your way has no political viability.
    Dude, thats the problem.

    1. Because of the huge numbers coming in they ARE NOT assimilating. If anything, we are assimilating to them! Look at all the ESL classes, the bilingual signs, the 2 option phone menus etc

    2. Our evil govt has been encouraging them NOT to assimilate. There has been almost no push for these foreigners to embrace American values and actually BECOME American, its ridiculous.

    3. The overwhelming number of immigrants legal and especially illegal coming into the US are not of higher intelligence. We're literally pumping our great nation full of dumb ass, uneducated welfare leeches and their families. Thats what big business wants for slave labor, thats what the Left wants for votes for freebies. They have NO INTENTION of learning, they want to be sponsored by the govt for the rest of their lives, and their children's lives and on and on. They dont think about learning anything, why would they?! Their housing is heavily subsidized or free, they get an EBT card with hundreds on it a month for food, their children go to our schools while they pay ZERO taxes, they go to the ER and get the best care from the best doctors and dont even have a SSN to tie to them for the bill.

    Its fuking sickening, and the scale its happening on is soo massive you cant even wrap your head around it. Meanwhile Americans that fall on hard times are told pick yourself up and left to sleep on the streets. Americans that support what happening and been happening for decades are un-American to me. They are so dumb or so foolhearted that they are smiling as their country is being killed underneath their feet.

    They think it will last forever and good times will maintain themselves...they are arrogant and ignorant and its hurting our country.
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    Technology is inherently democratic, and human social progress shows a consistent evolution of the recognition of rights, freedoms and equality of people.

    If a country closed off it's borders and sought to preserve it's culture it probably could. Japan is an example of a homogenous culture but i'm sure even they are facing forces of liberalism and globalism.
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    Originally Posted by DukeOfWoodBerry View Post
    You might want to rethink your position on assimilation always being possible. Blacks have been in this country for hundreds of years and they still haven't assimilated with white culture. They have a distinct, unique culture. The same is true for Native Americans. In my view, assimilation into a white, European culture isn't really possible for other groups. A multiracial society means a multicultural society.
    (East) Asian Americans seem to be doing perfectly fine. The issue has most to do most with the achievement of economic parity. Once "minority groups" achieve socioeconomic prosperity (Italians, East Asians, Slavs, etc) they become absorbed into the wider melting pot. If you only take immigrants who are likely to achieve economic success, assimilation will be possible and the economy will benefit.
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    Originally Posted by knightofday View Post
    Dude, thats the problem.

    1. Because of the huge numbers coming in they ARE NOT assimilating. If anything, we are assimilating to them! Look at all the ESL classes, the bilingual signs, the 2 option phone menus etc

    2. Our evil govt has been encouraging them NOT to assimilate. There has been almost no push for these foreigners to embrace American values and actually BECOME American, its ridiculous.

    3. The overwhelming number of immigrants legal and especially illegal coming into the US are not of higher intelligence. We're literally pumping our great nation full of dumb ass, uneducated welfare leeches and their families. Thats what big business wants for slave labor, thats what the Left wants for votes for freebies. They have NO INTENTION of learning, they want to be sponsored by the govt for the rest of their lives, and their children's lives and on and on. They dont think about learning anything, why would they?! Their housing is heavily subsidized or free, they get an EBT card with hundreds on it a month for food, their children go to our schools while they pay ZERO taxes, they go to the ER and get the best care from the best doctors and dont even have a SSN to tie to them for the bill.

    Its fuking sickening, and the scale its happening on is soo massive you cant even wrap your head around it. Meanwhile Americans that fall on hard times are told pick yourself up and left to sleep on the streets. Americans that support what happening and been happening for decades are un-American to me. They are so dumb or so foolhearted that they are smiling as their country is being killed underneath their feet.

    They think it will last forever and good times will maintain themselves...they are arrogant and ignorant and its hurting our country.
    I agree with all of your points. My point is that in order to win the debate, you have to focus on the economic implications. Uneducated and unassimilated immigrants, regardless of demographic implications, IMPOVERISH the country. Why would a rational immigration policy be tailored in a way that makes the country poorer? You hammer that point, and leave the demographic comments at home, because that's an argument you can win.
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    Originally Posted by SillieBazzillie View Post
    I hope so. Because the alternative is the party of two monsters, a big bite, and a tin of skoal for breakfast crowd deciding who gets to run the country.

    And we see how that's worked out so far...Massive deficit increase, slower job growth than Obama, pathetic and falling toward negative GDP, laughingstock of the world, etc etc etc

    Nope, best let the big boy decisions be made by those who are more concerned with getting educated than attending a monster truck rally.

    You think the left is educated but you people all go for pathetic low IQ degrees like gender studies...

    Theres a reason why you people make up the lowest income brackets and the majority of the welfare and food stamp recipients.
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    Originally Posted by BrightThru2014 View Post
    I mean Hispanics and African-Americans are more socially conservative than White Americans:



    And overall support for gay marriage has been decreasing from its peak in 2018:



    Generation Z is the most diverse in American history, and looks to be the most conservative since WWII:

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleys.../#7ae90d6d7878
    the decrease is most likely because people who were OK with gays see the agenda being progressed rapidly to trannies and all this gender nonsense and can see the writing on the wall that ped0s are next. If I was a gay dude I'd be a little frustrated with the other him/her/zhes.
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    Originally Posted by RamataKahn View Post
    All great nations and empires eventually crumble from within, and it's mostly from left-minded policies and practices. Just look at history.

    That's incredibly dishonest. Empires fell because their people were starving.
    I offer my opponents a bargain. If they will stop telling lies about us, I will stop telling the truth about them.
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    Originally Posted by knightofday View Post
    It is, but we need to take the gloves off. The Left fights with guerilla tactics, conservative and normal people are still being civil, thats why we lose. We need to fight fire with fire and be as dirty and disrespectful as they are so we can stop and crush them
    Correct and repped...
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