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  1. #1
    Registered User Nuthead007's Avatar
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    Post Rate my workout for Size and strength

    Noteworthy:
    - The weights for the exercises are set heavy so that I can only possibly push out the reps given, and no more.
    - All exercises have a 3-minute rest period unless otherwise stated.
    - Warm-up before all days is static stretching, ~70 high knees and ~70 heel kicks.
    - Cool-down after each day is static stretching.
    - Every exercise consists of 3 sets.

    M: BACK AND BICEPS
    - Deadlift (controlled descent, chalk) 6 reps
    - Chin ups (bodyweight) 4 reps
    - Barbell Rows 6 reps
    - Pulldowns 6 reps

    - Barbell bicep curls 6 reps
    - Dumbbell bicep curls 6 reps
    - Hammer curls 6 reps

    TU: CHEST AND TRICEPS
    - Barbell Bench press 6 reps
    - Barbell incline bench 6 reps
    - Dips (bodyweight) 9 reps
    - Cable chest flys 12 reps

    3 sets of:
    - Rope triceps pushdown 10 reps. NO REST
    - Straight bar triceps pushdown palms facing away 10 reps. NO REST
    - Straight bar triceps pushdown palms facing me 10 reps. 3 MINUTE REST

    TH: LEGS
    - Back Squats (slow descent) 6 reps
    - Stiff legged deadlift (slow descent) 6 reps
    - Reverse dumbbell Lunges 20 reps (10 each leg)
    - Calf raises 18 reps

    - Front squat flexibility training

    F: Shoulders
    - Shoulder press 6 reps
    - Arnold press 6 reps
    - Kettlebell upright rows (hold 4 seconds at top) 12 reps
    - Seated bent over lateral raises 10 reps

    __________________________________________________ _______________

    I'm thinking of adding planks.
    Open to critique
    Last edited by Nuthead007; 11-21-2019 at 05:54 AM. Reason: Cable flys not cable pulls*
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  2. #2
    12 pack > 6 pack PurmaBulker1984's Avatar
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    Definitely add planks.
    Current max
    325 bb bench
    295 incl bb bench
    275 push press.

    Married w/ 2 kids crew
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  3. #3
    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
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    Zero.

    Why slow negatives, maximum soreness routine?
    2018 Log
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175232661

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    Registered User TAWS6's Avatar
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    More arm work than legs? Lmao. Everyone just needs to let these bro splits die off.
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  5. #5
    Registered User Nuthead007's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    Zero.

    Why slow negatives, maximum soreness routine?
    I do slow negatives mainly since its easier to keep form on deadlifts and squats and I can activate the muscles better.
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  6. #6
    Registered User Nuthead007's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    More arm work than legs? Lmao. Everyone just needs to let these bro splits die off.
    My legs are strong compared to my arms so I try to focus on arms.
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  7. #7
    Registered User Nuthead007's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BCPL View Post
    Static stretching before lifting reduces performance, if youre going to do it, do it after training

    Dont see a need for slow deadlift negatives at all

    I have a feeling youve been told slow negatives are magical... on squats, just go down at a good speed which you can stay tight with, and push as hard as possible on concentrics... unless youre programmed tempo squats specifically to address a technical issue of yours that tempo squats may help with

    And id chalk for every main lift, so no need to note it as special to the deadlift

    Also... the program is shocking, look at basic full body or upper lower splits, progress over time on big lifts and make gains, if simple stuff bores you then maybe look into rpe based stuff if you really like getting technical, barbell medicine programs & other rts based stuff....
    Never knew that about static stretching. Thanks for info.

    Why do you chalk for main lifts? I've only been chalking for deadlifting because I can't hold onto the bar at heavy weight. I never feel like the bar during squats is going to slip for example.

    I used to do full body exercises just always the main compound exercises but it got boring. What specifically about the program is bad? I tried to incorporate compound movements so that I was working the same muscles more than one day a week. If I added front squats to Monday would that help alleviate the problem?

    Keep in mind I am working arms so much since they are a weakness ^.
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  8. #8
    12 pack > 6 pack PurmaBulker1984's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nuthead007 View Post
    My legs are strong compared to my arms so I try to focus on arms.
    even if you stopped working legs they'd be stronger than your arms.
    Current max
    325 bb bench
    295 incl bb bench
    275 push press.

    Married w/ 2 kids crew
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  9. #9
    Registered User Nuthead007's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PurmaBulker1984 View Post
    even if you stopped working legs they'd be stronger than your arms.
    haha yes ... Comparative to the ideal ratio of arms/legs my legs are bigger.
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  10. #10
    Registered User Nuthead007's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BCPL View Post
    Why have you decided they are they a weakness? How much do you pullup/row/curl vs squat
    6 rep maximum:
    Squat: 115kg
    Deadlift: 130kg
    Pullups: I'm not sure but I think 1-2 full bodyweight reps at 93kg.
    Barbell row: 70kg
    Barbell curl: 22.5kg then DB bicep curl is 10kg and left bi is considerably weaker (I think due to injury)
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  11. #11
    Registered User Nuthead007's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nuthead007 View Post
    6 rep maximum:
    Squat: 115kg
    Deadlift: 130kg
    Pullups: I'm not sure but I think 1-2 full bodyweight reps at 93kg.
    Barbell row: 70kg
    Barbell curl: 22.5kg then DB bicep curl is 10kg and left bi is considerably weaker (I think due to injury)
    Bench is 80kg for 6 reps.
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  12. #12
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    Candito has a free 4 day program which is hypertrophy half the week and strength the other half. He does good stuff and worth looking into.
    Current max
    325 bb bench
    295 incl bb bench
    275 push press.

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  13. #13
    Registered User Nuthead007's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BCPL View Post
    junk volume
    In terms of volume, do you mean that I am doing too many exercises that use little weight?
    Or do you think 3 sets are too low even though I am going until exhaustion on those sets?

    Originally Posted by BCPL View Post
    not enough frequency on some movement patterns
    Are squats the one you think I am missing out on the most? Or do you think that there is too much pushing and not enough pulling?

    Originally Posted by BCPL View Post
    overworking others
    If we focus on arms (bis and tris), do you mean that the routine given is in opposition growing them since they are being worked too hard to grow?
    Or do you mean that I would be better focusing on bigger movements?
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  14. #14
    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nuthead007 View Post
    My legs are strong compared to my arms so I try to focus on arms.
    Not according to your numbers.
    I can tell time. Time cannot tell me.

    Formerly LactoseTolerant. I'm not very imaginative.
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  15. #15
    Registered User Nuthead007's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    Not according to your numbers.
    According to [strength level dot com] my bicep curls are less than 1 star (beginner). I am stronger than 2% of male lifters my age if I set DB curls to 15kg 6 repitions.
    Everything else is two stars. I am stronger than around 33% of people my age and weight. Squat is 2 almost 3 stars, and I squat more than 36% of lifters my age and weight group.
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    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nuthead007 View Post
    According to [strength level dot com] my bicep curls are less than 1 star (beginner). I am stronger than 2% of male lifters my age if I set DB curls to 15kg 6 repitions.
    The numbers for bicep curls are spotty and sparse. That's because most lifters don't care enough about it to submit and rate numbers.

    Originally Posted by Nuthead007 View Post
    Everything else is two stars. I am stronger than around 33% of people my age and weight. Squat is 2 almost 3 stars, and I squat more than 36% of lifters my age and weight group.
    That means you're well below average in everything.

    Just put my numbers in strengthlevel.com. 55% for bench and 90% for squat but I don't think I'm all that imbalanced.
    I can tell time. Time cannot tell me.

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  17. #17
    Registered User Nuthead007's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    The numbers for bicep curls are spotty and sparse. That's because most lifters don't care enough about it to submit and rate numbers.
    I agree that the numbers for bicep curls are probably sparse, but that doesn't mean that they are lower than the actual numbers of larger samples of people. It could be higher just as easily. Or it could be the same.

    There is an even chance of the real numbers being higher, rather than lower.

    Even if by coincidence the real bicep curl numbers from large samples were lower, it is extremely unlikely that it would make up the difference between top 2% and top 33%.

    Also to add the difference in muscle size/proportion is noticeable from an aesthetic point of view.
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    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nuthead007 View Post
    Even if by coincidence the real bicep curl numbers from large samples were lower, it is extremely unlikely that it would make up the difference between top 2% and top 33%.
    I got 22% when I put your numbers in with your body weight. But you do you.
    I can tell time. Time cannot tell me.

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  19. #19
    Registered User Nuthead007's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TolerantLactose View Post
    I got 22% when I put your numbers in with your body weight. But you do you.
    Oh you're right, I must have put it in as lbs incorrectly or something. Maybe it is not such a weakness as I thought.
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  20. #20
    Registered User dgoyena216's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Nuthead007 View Post
    My legs are strong compared to my arms so I try to focus on arms.
    You dont focus on arms by doing a bunch of isolation movements. You get big strong arms by getting stronger on your presses and pulls.

    And for the love of god stop doing sets of 6 for arm isolation movements.
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  21. #21
    Registered User Nuthead007's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dgoyena216 View Post
    You dont focus on arms by doing a bunch of isolation movements. You get big strong arms by getting stronger on your presses and pulls.
    What is the reasoning behind this? Is it to affect hormone levels by working larger muscles?

    Originally Posted by dgoyena216 View Post
    And for the love of god stop doing sets of 6 for arm isolation movements.
    Why?
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  22. #22
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    Originally Posted by Nuthead007 View Post
    What is the reasoning behind this? Is it to affect hormone levels by working larger muscles?


    Why?
    It's because when you row 150 pounds, your biceps are coming along for the ride, holding 150 pounds. As opposed to the 30 pounds you curl. Your muscles respond to tension, which is going to be higher on compound movements. Although strangely I have always been able to tricep pushdown more than I can bench/ ohp. I don't think that's normal.

    The second answer is basically the same. You can't curl enough weight to make any reasonable difference in 6 reps. Those are really four pump work. Curls don't make you strong. 4-5 month's of only sporadically doing a set of curls before I leave and pushing(heh) my pulls has left me with better(though still pretty marginal at this point) bicep development than years of doing curls in the squat rack for an hour a day

    Let's see, I'm about 75kg, I do 50 pullups within 10 minutes, I can do 15 in the first set. Last time I did curls was with 7 pound dumbbells. That seems to be the trend with the guys who are actually strong, where the weakling has 100 pounds on the curl bar and using hip drive to lift it. I saw a gut yesterday deadlifting 3 plates who went on to do curls with 2kg on each side... so like 25kg
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  23. #23
    Registered User Nuthead007's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WakingOp View Post
    It's because when you row 150 pounds, your biceps are coming along for the ride, holding 150 pounds. As opposed to the 30 pounds you curl. Your muscles respond to tension, which is going to be higher on compound movements. Although strangely I have always been able to tricep pushdown more than I can bench/ ohp. I don't think that's normal.

    The second answer is basically the same. You can't curl enough weight to make any reasonable difference in 6 reps. Those are really four pump work. Curls don't make you strong. 4-5 month's of only sporadically doing a set of curls before I leave and pushing(heh) my pulls has left me with better(though still pretty marginal at this point) bicep development than years of doing curls in the squat rack for an hour a day

    Let's see, I'm about 75kg, I do 50 pullups within 10 minutes, I can do 15 in the first set. Last time I did curls was with 7 pound dumbbells. That seems to be the trend with the guys who are actually strong, where the weakling has 100 pounds on the curl bar and using hip drive to lift it. I saw a gut yesterday deadlifting 3 plates who went on to do curls with 2kg on each side... so like 25kg
    Thanks for the response.

    I see what you are saying about the heavier weight under your biceps. But I don't think the logic is very sound. If I am rowing 150 pounds my biceps are not working 150 pounds of that muscle at any point, they may be working 30 lbs and my back muscles will be working the other 120 lbs. So it's really the same in terms of weight. Furthermore, if it is your back that tires first (if you are repping out to max) then you are not fully working the bicep muscle. Whereas if I do bicep curls I go to max repetitions and fully work out the muscle. So in terms of a 1 to 1 ratio it's far better to do bicep curls to grow strength or size.

    I see alot of people always talking about volume, but to me this logic is only a means to an end and it doesn't make sense in circumstances like this. If looking at an overall workout and saying the volume is low then this makes sense since you are including all muscles, but looking at a small muscle like the bicep which is only like a sixth the size of your quads and saying that it should lift more than a sixth of the weight you lift in quad movements doesn't make sense to me (made up fraction).

    In terms of your personal experience, don't you think curling for an hour a day was overworking the muscle and this had an impact on your bicep growth?
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    Originally Posted by Nuthead007 View Post

    In terms of your personal experience, don't you think curling for an hour a day was overworking the muscle and this had an impact on your bicep growth?
    Yes!!! Your biceps became marathon runners and not sprinters.
    Current max
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    Originally Posted by PurmaBulker1984 View Post
    Yes!!! Your biceps became marathon runners and not sprinters.
    Basically. I can carry that 40 or so pounds all day. But no real mass/ strength. That's starting to change. Starting to, from the heavy pulls. Repping out pullups seems to be helping a lot. I can get my 50 pretty comfortably now. Next week I start adding weight
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    I would just chose between Fierce 5 or Vikings. Those are the only programs you'll ever need.
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    Originally Posted by dgoyena216 View Post
    You dont focus on arms by doing a bunch of isolation movements. You get big strong arms by getting stronger on your presses and pulls.

    And for the love of god stop doing sets of 6 for arm isolation movements.
    Well, this didn't work for me. I had an unfortunate opportunity to start lifting from scratch few times.

    One time was going with advice same as yours - arms was skinny as hell.

    While on another occassion, besides compounds, I did lots of various curls - hammer curls, supinated curls, reverse curls. And guess what? I made way faster progress.

    So, IMO compounds + plenty of isos. (It's ridiculous that on BB forum people despise isolations_

    Although I do not encourage half-assing leg training.
    Meatheads, reading the above

    please be more open-minded (of course if you have the mental capability)
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