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  1. #1
    Registered User Xpiro's Avatar
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    Deadlifts—back or legs (hamstrings)?

    When designing a muscle group/bodypart split, would deadlifts be considered a back exercise or a leg exercise? And if we’re doing legs, following an outline that specifies x number of exercises per muscle group, would we split up quads and hamstrings?

    For context, I want to put something together based on a “pendulum” template for bodybuilding, including 2 weeks of structural hypertrophy training and 1 week of functional strength training, reversing phases at the end of phase 3. I need a 4 day split so I was thinking about using an U/L.
    Last edited by Xpiro; 11-20-2019 at 01:58 AM.
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  2. #2
    Registered User rdf1988's Avatar
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    I normally put them on my leg days. For sure, a heavy load is controlled through the back when you deadlift, but the actual movement is happening at the hips and knees.

    Regarding quads and hamstrings, it will depend on what variation you use. RDLs and SLDLs, I wouldn't even consider as quad exercises (although your quads should certainly be active throughout). Conventional deadlifts barely count, either, assuming you've got the bar over the midfoot. Clean or snatch style deadlifts would count for quads, though, as would certain variations of deficit deadlifts. I find sumo deadlifts come closest to being a leg all-rounder, in the same way that low bar sumo squats are close to being a leg all-rounder. Sumos are still going to favour posterior chain more, though, just as low bar squats are still going to favour anterior chain more -- at least for most lifters.

    After saying all that, yes, you definitely should consider quads and hamstrings different muscle groups, for the same reasons you would consider pecs and rhomboids different muscle groups. They attach to some of the same bones, but their similarities in function pretty much end there.
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    Both.
    If it's a decision between upper or lower its lower.

    Not that you need to separate workouts by body parts
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    Registered User Garage Rat's Avatar
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    They effect both areas.
    How you do them also depends what the DL effects more.
    I wouldn't think regular deadlifts for a pure bodybuilding routine unless your just after all around mass and include many compound movements.
    If you do your DL's RDL style then glutes and hamstrings.
    If you do Zane style rack pulls from knees up with a wide grip then low back,some lats and traps.
    If you do regular DL's then all of these get some work.
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    Registered User Xpiro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rdf1988 View Post
    I normally put them on my leg days. For sure, a heavy load is controlled through the back when you deadlift, but the actual movement is happening at the hips and knees.

    Regarding quads and hamstrings, it will depend on what variation you use. RDLs and SLDLs, I wouldn't even consider as quad exercises (although your quads should certainly be active throughout). Conventional deadlifts barely count, either, assuming you've got the bar over the midfoot. Clean or snatch style deadlifts would count for quads, though, as would certain variations of deficit deadlifts. I find sumo deadlifts come closest to being a leg all-rounder, in the same way that low bar sumo squats are close to being a leg all-rounder. Sumos are still going to favour posterior chain more, though, just as low bar squats are still going to favour anterior chain more -- at least for most lifters.

    After saying all that, yes, you definitely should consider quads and hamstrings different muscle groups, for the same reasons you would consider pecs and rhomboids different muscle groups. They attach to some of the same bones, but their similarities in function pretty much end there.
    I’d just be doing conventional most of the time, at least until (if, and hopefully never, if I’m wise about things) my low back issues flare up again in which case I’d grab the trap bar. In which case... quads? Or are we talking about another leg all-rounder?

    I would always fit RDLs in regardless... unbeatable hinge pattern practice for me.
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    Registered User Xpiro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    Both.
    If it's a decision between upper or lower its lower.

    Not that you need to separate workouts by body parts
    That’s right, you linked me to a full-body routine in my bench thread but the page was out of commission. Do you have another source for that?
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    Registered User Xpiro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Garage Rat View Post
    They effect both areas.
    How you do them also depends what the DL effects more.
    I wouldn't think regular deadlifts for a pure bodybuilding routine unless your just after all around mass and include many compound movements.
    If you do your DL's RDL style then glutes and hamstrings.
    If you do Zane style rack pulls from knees up with a wide grip then low back,some lats and traps.
    If you do regular DL's then all of these get some work.
    What’s the difference between a bodybuilding focus and an all-around mass focus? I’d be basing this somewhat off of established routines like Fierce 5 and Bare Bones, both of which include—optional, but always my choice—conventional deads within the 5-6 rep range. Including them has done wonders for my back size (Unless it’s in my head, I feel like I shrink up a bit during recovery breaks from them) and frankly I love them. I’ve spent the last 3 years perfecting my form to work around injuries and the movement and sense of accomplishment from the high of the pull are so beautiful to me. Like I said above I want to include RDLs regardless.
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    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Xpiro View Post
    That’s right, you linked me to a full-body routine in my bench thread but the page was out of commission. Do you have another source for that?
    Just search calgary barbell free program.

    Or barbell medicine programming

    Or reactive training systems
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  9. #9
    Registered User Xpiro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    Just search calgary barbell free program.

    Or barbell medicine programming

    Or reactive training systems
    Are these relevant for bodybuilding or only strength/powerlifting?
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    Originally Posted by Xpiro View Post
    Are these relevant for bodybuilding or only strength/powerlifting?
    The first and the third mostly powerlifting.

    The 2nd all goals
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    Xp, are you still reinventing the wheel? ))) With your knowledge this will not work. Take a ready-made program in which the coach has already thought for you and train.
    bench press 165 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    overhead press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps
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    Deadlifts don't really belong in a purely bodybuilding workout so that's why people keep asking and asking where to fit it in.
    Mostly targets outer quads, hamstrings, glutes, erector spinae, traps, forearms.
    Deadlifts will drain your energy, hit your CNS hard (the heavier you go), put you at a risk of injury, take time to perfect, not allow to individually focus the muscles to control your development.
    As such I believe a bodybuilder would be far better of redirecting his energy to more bodybuilding-oriented exercises.
    Having said all that, the more hardcore bodybuilding gym-goers (not the average Joe that remembers to hit the weights every May of each year) like to deadlift.
    They do so to make a statement of power and strength, separate themselves from the herd or simply because they just like to deadlift.
    Also is a very helpful exercise for quality of life, strengthening the lower back and-more importantly- teaching a person how to correctly pick up weights.
    So put the deadlift wherever you want to, if you indeed decide to go with it.
    imo it is a standalone exercise pretty much.
    Goes with everything and nothing.
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    Deadlifts it's mostly lower back and legs
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    Originally Posted by Xpiro View Post
    When designing a muscle group/bodypart split, would deadlifts be considered a back exercise or a leg exercise? And if we’re doing legs, following an outline that specifies x number of exercises per muscle group, would we split up quads and hamstrings?

    For context, I want to put something together based on a “pendulum” template for bodybuilding, including 2 weeks of structural hypertrophy training and 1 week of functional strength training, reversing phases at the end of phase 3. I need a 4 day split so I was thinking about using an U/L.
    it depends on preference, i do them with legday, used to do it on back day. Depends on how long recovery time you have.
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    Registered User Xpiro's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by christos_swc View Post
    Deadlifts don't really belong in a purely bodybuilding workout so that's why people keep asking and asking where to fit it in.
    Mostly targets outer quads, hamstrings, glutes, erector spinae, traps, forearms.
    Deadlifts will drain your energy, hit your CNS hard (the heavier you go), put you at a risk of injury, take time to perfect, not allow to individually focus the muscles to control your development.
    As such I believe a bodybuilder would be far better of redirecting his energy to more bodybuilding-oriented exercises.
    Having said all that, the more hardcore bodybuilding gym-goers (not the average Joe that remembers to hit the weights every May of each year) like to deadlift.
    They do so to make a statement of power and strength, separate themselves from the herd or simply because they just like to deadlift.
    Also is a very helpful exercise for quality of life, strengthening the lower back and-more importantly- teaching a person how to correctly pick up weights.
    So put the deadlift wherever you want to, if you indeed decide to go with it.
    imo it is a standalone exercise pretty much.
    Goes with everything and nothing.
    Haha yeah I love deadlifts. I’ve been perfecting my form for the past 3 years after I permanently fked my low back until something fierce pulling like sh!t, and a strong, well executed deadlift is unequivocally satisfying to me. I’ve had to cycle them in and out due to injury though... It is a bummer how taxing they can be. It’s weird because I’m stalling almost everywhere except for my deadlift, which after having cycled in a couple months ago has been increasing smoothly. Wonder if they’re stealing all of my other gains. (But really even though I’m doing 6s it doesn’t feel crazy heavy, I’m just working up from where I left off in May)
    Last edited by Xpiro; 12-08-2019 at 11:46 PM.
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