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  1. #31
    Registered User Thankless's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    I think they are both awful in different ways. I think our government is actually the most dangerous government on the planet right now. I think we are the greatest threat to freedom and peace this world has ever seen.

    We've been the #1 superpower for some time. Has the world become more dangerous or less? more oppressive or less?
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  2. #32
    Lifelong Virgin wincel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Thankless View Post
    Are you sitting in a federal prison right now?
    Look at how they smeared Tulsi and murdered JFK. If I mattered, you can bet your ass everything I told you would be censored. If I had 5 mins to speak to the country and draw attention to things that have been done, I'd be fuking murdered. Srs.

    You don't see the media ever talk about any of the horrible chit our country has done. Go read our nuclear policy. Go look at our rejections of peace. Ask yourself who is the real threat.
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  3. #33
    Registered User Thankless's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    Look at how they smeared Tulsi and murdered JFK. If I mattered, you can bet your ass everything I told you would be censored. If I had 5 mins to speak to the country and draw attention to things that have been done, I'd be fuking murdered. Srs.

    So that's a no?

    and who smeared Tulsi? There are many people who bring up 9/11 and JFK. How many of those people are sitting in a prison or in a grave?


    You are speaking to the country. Our internet is still mostly uncensored. "mostly"
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  4. #34
    Lifelong Virgin wincel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Thankless View Post
    We've been the #1 superpower for some time. Has the world become more dangerous or less? more oppressive or less?
    Far more oppressive and far more dangerous. The threat of nuclear war is greater now than it was during the cold war. There is far less balance of power. People all over the world are being exploited to serve America's agenda. Our people are kept in the dark.
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  5. #35
    Lifelong Virgin wincel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Thankless View Post
    So that's a no?

    and who smeared Tulsi?
    Literally every major news outlet...

    It's all part of the propaganda to claim we are free and the enemy is not. The Chinese think we are oppressed and must be freed. It's all the same game. The powers that be keep us in the dark and use us to fight their wars for their gain. The average Chinese and American person have zero against each other. We should never go to war. Ever.
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  6. #36
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    LOL @ wincel

    ... free to post anti-US stuff in the US (if they're actually even in the US) but yet if they posted similar but anti-China propaganda right now in China, they'd have Chinese gov agents banging on their door within the hour to arrest them, liquidate them, and harvest their organs



    With that said, the US gov -is- growing more and more oppressive, -is- becoming a larger and larger force compared to the people it supposedly serves, -is- creating more and more of a surveillance state, -is- becoming more and more of an overbearing and self-serving and feeding entity, and -does- have the world's largest known prison population ..... because like I and so many others have warned, trading with a totalitarian communist government like China will enrich and empower them (with wealth removed from us) while at the same time making our society and gov more and more like theirs in all ways.
    Last edited by LukeLissen; 11-19-2019 at 07:11 PM.
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  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by Thankless View Post
    Because of the control their overreaching government has over their people domestically and abroad.

    and in the U.S the govt won't ruin your life over an idealogy unless of course our govt is controlled by the Democrats as we've seen by the IRS for example.
    Maybe 50 years ago they put people in jail for that stuff but not any more. My company has an office in Shanghai and people go
    back and forth all the time. China has gotten smarter. Let the people bitch all they want, just like here in the USA.
    What difference does it make?
    The difference between a winner and a loser is
    that when a loser loses, he gives up. Moore's law crew.
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  8. #38
    Registered User Thankless's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    Literally every major news outlet...

    It's called propaganda and what happens when you have a 1 party state. Which is where we're headed. That's about the only similarity we have with China
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  9. #39
    Lifelong Virgin wincel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LukeLissen View Post
    LOL @ wincel

    ... free to post anti-US stuff in the US (if they're actually even in the US) but yet if they posted similar but anti-China propaganda right now in China, they'd have Chinese gov agents banging on their door within the hour to arrest them, liquidate them, and harvest their organs



    With that said, the US gov -is- growing more and more oppressive, -is- becoming a larger and larger force compared to the people it supposedly serves, -is- creating more and more of a surveillance state, -is- becoming more and more of an overbearing and self-serving and feeding entity, and -does- have the world's largest known prison population ..... because like I and so many others have warned, trading with a totalitarian communist government like China will enrich and empower them (with wealth removed from us) while at the same time making our society and gov more and more like theirs in all ways.
    Our intelligence agencies and shadow govt currently murder more ppl than CCP AND are a greater threat to US citizens' freedoms than the CCP right now. I am not a fan of the CCP, but know that the powers that be really seem to want a war with China nowadays. IDK why, but they have been itching for it, using psyops to convince people China is the enemy. We have a god damn constitution. It says Congress is the body that declares war. Our recent POTUSes have abused their power. The executive is jeopardizing the stability of the world.

    If you fear the CCP controlling and censoring things, start by asking why we let the NSA violate the constitution. Who watches the watchers? How do we know it isn't China?
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  10. #40
    America First. XterraRob's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gregxy View Post
    Maybe 50 years ago they put people in jail for that stuff but not any more. My company has an office in Shanghai and people go
    back and forth all the time. China has gotten smarter. Let the people bitch all they want, just like here in the USA.
    What difference does it make?
    Are you suggesting that nobody is detained indefinitely or "disappears" for speaking out against the CCP?
    Wincel: "I'm saying even the govt of China, while brutal at times, is NOT our enemy. Period."
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  11. #41
    Lifelong Virgin wincel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by XterraRob View Post
    Are you suggesting that nobody is detained indefinitely or "disappears" for speaking out against the CCP?
    They definitely do. Just a while back, there was a girl who criticized Xi Jinping. She disappeared and the last people knew of her,she was being held in a "mental health facility" against her will.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dong_Yaoqiong

    The CCP is terrible and evil, but war is not the answer.
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  12. #42
    Fuk off, Lahey! LargePeter's Avatar
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    inb4 China sees this and makes sure OP lives up to his name
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  13. #43
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    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    They definitely do. Just a while back, there was a girl who criticized Xi Jinping. She disappeared and the last people knew of her,she was being held in a "mental health facility" against her will.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dong_Yaoqiong

    The CCP is terrible and evil, but war is not the answer.
    CCP = Nazi in 2019.

    Let me know how one should deal with Nazi.
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  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    . You also act like the entire world is a zero sum game that the US must win.
    The world is getting smaller by the day, and given how technology can allow a small few to control billions, it's probably not far from being a zero sum game. A few unmatched advancements in space weapons would give a country virtually complete control of the world.
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  15. #45
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    Originally Posted by LukeLissen View Post
    LOL @ wincel

    ... free to post anti-US stuff in the US (if they're actually even in the US) but yet if they posted similar but anti-China propaganda right now in China, they'd have Chinese gov agents banging on their door within the hour to arrest them, liquidate them, and harvest their organs



    With that said, the US gov -is- growing more and more oppressive, -is- becoming a larger and larger force compared to the people it supposedly serves, -is- creating more and more of a surveillance state, -is- becoming more and more of an overbearing and self-serving and feeding entity, and -does- have the world's largest known prison population ..... because like I and so many others have warned, trading with a totalitarian communist government like China will enrich and empower them (with wealth removed from us) while at the same time making our society and gov more and more like theirs in all ways.
    Preach. Anyone who defends or supports china online or irl is either a plant or dumb as a bag of hammers, there is no in between.

    Like someone said, a lot off people are still sleeping on china because we have been asleep so long but that tide is definitely turning quickly. More and more conversation is centered around them and the danger they pose, thanks in no small part to POTUS. Independent journalists really ramped up getting the truth out there shortly after he started the tariffs, thank god.
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  16. #46
    Lifelong Virgin wincel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by knightofday View Post
    Preach. Anyone who defends or supports china online or irl is either a plant or dumb as a bag of hammers, there is no in between.

    Like someone said, a lot off people are still sleeping on china because we have been asleep so long but that tide is definitely turning quickly. More and more conversation is centered around them and the danger they pose, thanks in no small part to POTUS. Independent journalists really ramped up getting the truth out there shortly after he started the tariffs, thank god.
    Do we really have to do this chit? The US doesn't have enough enemies, so let's create more? Really?
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    Originally Posted by gregxy View Post
    Maybe 50 years ago they put people in jail for that stuff but not any more. My company has an office in Shanghai and people go
    back and forth all the time. China has gotten smarter. Let the people bitch all they want, just like here in the USA.
    What difference does it make?
    Ex-British Consulate staff says Chinese police tortured him

    BEIJING (AP) — A former employee of the British Consulate in Hong Kong says he was detained and tortured by Chinese secret police trying to extract information about massive anti-government protests in the territory.

    Simon Cheng said in an online statement and media interviews that he was hooded, beaten, deprived of sleep and chained to an X-shaped frame by plainclothes and uniformed agents as they sought information on activists involved in the protests and the role they believed Britain played in the demonstrations.

    British Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab summoned the Chinese ambassador in London to demand Beijing investigate.

    “I summoned the Chinese Ambassador to express our outrage at the brutal and disgraceful treatment of Simon in violation of China’s international obligations,” Raab said in a statement. “I have made clear we expect the Chinese authorities to investigate and hold those responsible to account.”

    Chinese police in August announced Cheng’s release after 15 days of administrative detention but gave no details of the reasons behind his detention.

    China’s foreign ministry responded angrily to the allegations and the summoning of the ambassador at a daily briefing on Wednesday.

    Ambassador Liu Xiaoming will “by no means accept the so-called concerns or complaints raised by the British side,” ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said.

    “The Chinese ambassador to the U.K. will lodge the complaints with the U.K. to express our strong opposition and indignation to the U.K.’s wrong words and deeds on Hong Kong in these days,” Geng said.

    Geng did not address Cheng’s allegations directly, but cited a statement by Shenzhen police from August saying his lawful rights had been protected and that he had “admitted his offense completely,” an apparent reference to a confession of soliciting prostitution that Cheng says was coerced. Cheng has strongly denied the charge.

    Police in Shenzhen did not immediately respond to faxed questions about Cheng’s allegations.

    Cheng worked for the consulate as a trade and investment officer with a focus on attracting Chinese investment in Scotland. That required him to travel frequently to mainland China and he was detained at the border with Hong Kong after returning from a one-day business trip.

    Hong Kong’s nearly six months of pro-democracy protests began in opposition to proposed legislation that would have allowed criminal suspects in the semi-autonomous city to be extradited to face trial in mainland China, where critics say their legal rights would be threatened. While Hong Kong leader Carrie Lam has since withdrawn the bill, demonstrations have continued unabated as strong anti-government sentiment continues.

    China says it doesn’t allow suspects to be tortured or make false confessions, although both practices are believed to be common.

    In his account on Facebook, Cheng wrote that he had been asked about the supposed British role in the protests, his own involvement in them and mainland Chinese who joined in demonstrations.

    China has long accused “anti-China foreign forces” of fomenting the protests, which have grown increasingly violent, without providing direct evidence.

    Cheng wrote that while being held he was shuttled between detention and interrogation centers while hooded and handcuffed. In addition to being shackled to the frame, he wrote he was ordered to assume stress positions for “countless hours,” and was beaten with what felt like “sharpened batons” and poked in the knee if he faltered. He was also punished for dozing off during the sessions by being forced to sing the Chinese national anthem, he wrote.

    “I was blindfolded and hooded during the whole torture and interrogations, I sweated a lot, and felt exhausted, dizzy and suffocated,” Cheng wrote.

    One interrogator speaking Hong Kong’s native Cantonese dialect cursed him, saying, “How dare you work for the British to supervise Chinese,” while another speaking in a northern Mandarin accent told him they were from China’s secret intelligence service and that he had “no human rights in this place,” Cheng wrote.

    He said the interrogators expected him to confess that Britain had instigated the protests by donating money and materials, that he personally led that effort and paid the bail of mainland participants. At the detention center, he witnessed police questioning other young inmates who appeared to be Chinese mainland nationals being punished for participation in the protests.

    Cheng said he refused but confessed to the minor offense of “soliciting prostitution” in order to avoid harsher treatment and a heavy sentence on national security charges. Some of the officers holding him said they could “abduct” him back to the mainland if he didn’t “behave,” he said.

    Cheng no longer works at the consulate and has fled to a third country. Raab, the foreign minister, said the U.K. is working to support Cheng, including a possible move to Britain.
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    https://www.hrichina.org/en/topic/en...-disappearance

    Above is another site listing disappeared people, so apparently they still do it.
    I have a Chinese friend who's father was a teacher and was imprisoned without trial back in the 70s.

    I did see an article a while back (wish I had saved it) stating China was moving to a system of drowning
    out dissenting opinions with "noise" rather than suppressing them. This is the modern way. Let people
    complain, nothing usually comes of it.

    The only one I can think of in the USA that has "disappeared" is Epstein.
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    Originally Posted by gregxy View Post
    https://www.hrichina.org/en/topic/en...-disappearance

    Above is another site listing disappeared people, so apparently they still do it.
    I have a Chinese friend who's father was a teacher and was imprisoned without trial back in the 70s.

    I did see an article a while back (wish I had saved it) stating China was moving to a system of drowning
    out dissenting opinions with "noise" rather than suppressing them. This is the modern way. Let people
    complain, nothing usually comes of it.

    The only one I can think of in the USA that has "disappeared" is Epstein.
    Of course they still disappear people, nothing has change except their ability to cover it up has gotten better. On paper and by "official" numbers the US has the largest prison population in the world, my gut tells me that chinas is multiples higher in real life. They have total control of their citizens, esp electronically. They will snatch you up, imprison you, and torture or take your organs without a second thought, today, in 2019 if you so much as even speak ill about the CCP or speak badly about the state. Oppression and madness on an unprecedented scale.

    The are the most powerful surveillance state in world history and theyre a fuking communist dictatorship. They harvest organs by the thousands from political prisoners, some Unit 731 type chit too I have no doubt.

    One day, word of the experiments the chinese have been doing and continue to do today will leak out and they will be soo heinous it will be almost unbelievable. If theyre harvesting organs on the scale they currently are, I dont imagine they have any problem experimenting with chem and biological weapons on others and much more evil chit. The value they place on human life, their own citizens lives, is near zero; imagine how little they value foreigners lives.
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    Originally Posted by knightofday View Post
    Of course they still disappear people, nothing has change except their ability to cover it up has gotten better. On paper and by "official" numbers the US has the largest prison population in the world, my gut tells me that chinas is multiples higher in real life. They have total control of their citizens, esp electronically. They will snatch you up, imprison you, and torture or take your organs without a second thought, today, in 2019 if you so much as even speak ill about the CCP or speak badly about the state. Oppression and madness on an unprecedented scale.

    The are the most powerful surveillance state in world history and theyre a fuking communist dictatorship. They harvest organs by the thousands from political prisoners, some Unit 731 type chit too I have no doubt.

    One day, word of the experiments the chinese have been doing and continue to do today will leak out and they will be soo heinous it will be almost unbelievable. If theyre harvesting organs on the scale they currently are, I dont imagine they have any problem experimenting with chem and biological weapons on others and much more evil chit. The value they place on human life, their own citizens lives, is near zero; imagine how little they value foreigners lives.

    Really,
    I've been to China 3 times. Since I only have 2 kidneys I should be dead by now.
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    Originally Posted by tyn89 View Post
    CCP = Nazi in 2019.

    Let me know how one should deal with Nazi.
    But war will kill more people and make things worse.
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    Originally Posted by knightofday View Post
    Of course they still disappear people, nothing has change except their ability to cover it up has gotten better. On paper and by "official" numbers the US has the largest prison population in the world, my gut tells me that chinas is multiples higher in real life. They have total control of their citizens, esp electronically. They will snatch you up, imprison you, and torture or take your organs without a second thought, today, in 2019 if you so much as even speak ill about the CCP or speak badly about the state. Oppression and madness on an unprecedented scale.

    The are the most powerful surveillance state in world history and theyre a fuking communist dictatorship. They harvest organs by the thousands from political prisoners, some Unit 731 type chit too I have no doubt.

    One day, word of the experiments the chinese have been doing and continue to do today will leak out and they will be soo heinous it will be almost unbelievable. If theyre harvesting organs on the scale they currently are, I dont imagine they have any problem experimenting with chem and biological weapons on others and much more evil chit. The value they place on human life, their own citizens lives, is near zero; imagine how little they value foreigners lives.
    No they aren't. We are the most powerful surveillance state in history.
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    If you look at the countries with the largest number of "disappeared" they are in Latin America.
    The governments there are non-functional, not authoritarian surveillance states.

    I think the despots of the world have figured out that you can make more money taxing a productive "free" workforce than
    by beating slaves with whips. Especially since work these days requires brains not muscle. Instead of controlling with
    force give them layers of fake news. Its cheaper and more productive.
    The difference between a winner and a loser is
    that when a loser loses, he gives up. Moore's law crew.
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    Originally Posted by gregxy View Post
    If you look at the countries with the largest number of "disappeared" they are in Latin America.
    The governments there are non-functional, not authoritarian surveillance states.

    I think the despots of the world have figured out that you can make more money taxing a productive "free" workforce than
    by beating slaves with whips. Especially since work these days requires brains not muscle. Instead of controlling with
    force give them layers of fake news. Its cheaper and more productive.
    Check out Operation Condor. Guess who arranged for these horrible governments? Why did we do it? Fruit, oil, and drugs. SRS.
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    Originally Posted by wincel View Post
    But war will kill more people and make things worse.
    Let me know how one should deal with Nazi.
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    Originally Posted by tyn89 View Post
    Let me know how one should deal with Nazi.
    IDK, but if Nazis had the kind of firepower China has, we'd definitely reconsider. You might be willing to die to "free" China. Not me.
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    Originally Posted by superbleeder View Post
    And that's worse than America's open war with most of the world, including spying on her allies?

    The difference I see is that America has two aircraft carrier fleets near China and China has none near America.
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    Originally Posted by gregxy View Post
    Really,
    I've been to China 3 times. Since I only have 2 kidneys I should be dead by now.
    Sorry bro, I didn't know you were of Uyghur descent I, apologize. Now that I know you are and have made it back safe 3 times, the danger must be over and the program shut down phew.

    Thank you for this vital information. Everyone, China is safe now, this guy made it there and back 3 times no need to worry anymore all is well.
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