Are unborn children basically tumours until they draw their first breath?

[PlanoLifter]

That’s a pretty sad post. Actually a court of law (with a jury) is exactly what you’re describing. A jury exists just to determine disputed facts and they don’t have to justify what they feel to be true to anyone.

What you’re doing is defying basic principles or logic and science. You made a claim as factual, you need to back it up or it means nothing.

He can't back it up and he now knows it. He's moving the goalposts to cover his rear end.

[miscinbro]

Tough one, if my wife and i are trying to have kids then yes i would be upset especially if it did not lead to a pregnancy.

Fertilised Unicellular egg, again good question and tough one. I see the point you are trying to make as it questions my beliefs on where humanity begins, while i do believe a fertilised egg is an individual i can see your point but i would rather play it safe and treat a fertilised egg as an individual until medicine/science improves to provide a clearer picture on when "life" begins

You do see a spectrum here though right? Assuming abortions of some type will occur (legal or not) I would argue playing it safe is doing it as soon as possible.

[PlanoLifter]

You do see a spectrum here though right? Assuming abortions of some type will occur (legal or not) I would argue playing it safe is doing it as soon as possible.

This is my philosophy too. Minimize the need for abortion but allow it where necessary.

[Tears]

You just don't understand. I was not trying to prove you wrong. I was open to you being correct. I simply asked you to back up your claim. And you simply couldn't and, what's worse, you didn't have the balls to admit that it was just an opinion until very recently when you finally realized you were caught out. You moved the goal posts, you asked me to prove something I never claimed, 9th grade tactics. It would have been so much easier for you to admit many posts ago that you were expressing an opinion and that you couldn't back up your claim but you insisted on arguing over and over. Oh well, what's done is done!

You're the one who brought it up multiple times, again, as some pathetic "gotcha." Anyone with a basic understand of reality knows you can't go back in time and change history so you can't compare the statistics. You kept bringing it up because you knew you wanted proof of something that didn't exist. You can't prove either way how many cases of illegitimate children there would be today. All you can prove is that they are constantly increasing, even as methods of pregnancy prevention increase.

[p100]

Drinking alcohol while pregnant should not be a problem because the embryo is not a person. Only after birth should the parent stop drinking alcohol so they don't beat the kid.

[JaymzJ]

Therefore God knowingly allows all these abortions to take place .... strange

For the time being, Satan is the ruler of this world for now, that’s why abortions happen. God will resurrect all of those aborted souls some day.

[JaymzJ]

Ehh, what? What happens to the embryo’s soul then?

In my belief, you ARE a soul and it doesn’t go to heaven when you die, it dies... because you are a soul.

[jimbone21]

Do you think IVF clinics, which discard dozens of fertilised eggs per patient, are genocide centres?
Do you hold funerals every time your girlfriend gets her period and numerous fertilised eggs are flushed out?
Do you think a single cell is worthy of the same moral considerations as a 3 year old child?

[img]https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/********/000/010/692/19789999.jpg[/img]

Fertilized means that a sperm has entered the egg and it is going to attach to the uterine wall and begin to grow into a baby. A woman having her period specifically means that the egg was NOT fertilized.

And to those who keep preaching that the law says abortion is legal and therefore it isn't murder. Nothing in the constitution states that abortion should be legal. Up until Roe v Wade it was illegal. So prior to RvW, was it morally wrong...but now it is morally right? The law was a reach of constitutional interpretation aka legislating from the bench in a lot of people's opinions.

Lastly, slavery used to be "legal" does that mean it was morally right? Should we base all of our opinions about right and wrong on what is prosecuted in our country?

[chaunce54]

I for one can't wait for the day when people are treated as commodities instead of special individuals, it will help solve allot of problems and then maybe we can have a Utopian society

Actually, that was completely legal at one time.

[miscinbro]

[img]https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/********/000/010/692/19789999.jpg[/img]

Fertilized means that a sperm has entered the egg and it is going to attach to the uterine wall and begin to grow into a baby. A woman having her period specifically means that the egg was NOT fertilized.

And to those who keep preaching that the law says abortion is legal and therefore it isn't murder. Nothing in the constitution states that abortion should be legal. Up until Roe v Wade it was illegal. So prior to RvW, was it morally wrong...but now it is morally right? The law was a reach of constitutional interpretation aka legislating from the bench in a lot of people's opinions.

Lastly, slavery used to be "legal" does that mean it was morally right? Should we base all of our opinions about right and wrong on what is prosecuted in our country?

Abortion was illegal until Roe v. Wade? Source please.

[jimbone21]

Abortion was illegal until Roe v. Wade? Source please.

It was up to the states and illegal in many states. You are like a ballerina, jumping on that one sentence and then gliding gracefully away from every other point I made. Ever audition for CNN?

[isingmodel]

[img]https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/********/000/010/692/19789999.jpg[/img]

Fertilized means that a sperm has entered the egg and it is going to attach to the uterine wall and begin to grow into a baby. A woman having her period specifically means that the egg was NOT fertilized.

And to those who keep preaching that the law says abortion is legal and therefore it isn't murder. Nothing in the constitution states that abortion should be legal. Up until Roe v Wade it was illegal. So prior to RvW, was it morally wrong...but now it is morally right? The law was a reach of constitutional interpretation aka legislating from the bench in a lot of people's opinions.

Lastly, slavery used to be "legal" does that mean it was morally right? Should we base all of our opinions about right and wrong on what is prosecuted in our country?

Strong everything. Fertilisation is simply when a sperm cell fuses with an ovum, typically in the fallopian tube. Implantation in the uterus wall is a separate process that happens several days later, and it does not always happen. Lots of fertilised eggs fail to implant and are so lost during menstruation.

Dem pro lifers really need to start at middle school biology and work outwards from there.

[alain]

Strong everything. Fertilisation is simply when a sperm cell fuses with an ovum, typically in the fallopian tube. Implantation in the uterus wall is a separate process that happens several days later, and it does not always happen. Lots of fertilised eggs fail to implant and are so lost during menstruation.

Dem pro lifers really need to start at middle school biology and work outwards from there.

Good explanation and true, so when does life begin? When do we give an individual the same rights as the rest of us.

[miscinbro]

It was up to the states and illegal in many states. You are like a ballerina, jumping on that one sentence and then gliding gracefully away from every other point I made. Ever audition for CNN?

Yes, it was illegal in many states up until 1/3rd of the federal government determined that the Constitution protected it to some degree. That’s very different from what you said.

The rest of the legal part of what you posted is pretty painful as well. Interpreting the Constitution is literally the entire point of the Supreme Court. Now personally I don’t think that somethings legal status determines its moral correctness, but as an agent of the court seeing these kind of blatant falsehoods is troubling to me.

[miscinbro]

Good explanation and true, so when does life begin? When do we give an individual the same rights as the rest of us.

I’m going to follow up on this post.

You do see a spectrum here though right? Assuming abortions of some type will occur (legal or not) I would argue playing it safe is doing it as soon as possible.

We can dial it back more too. Do you have any issue with a woman taking the morning after pill?

[NicholasMango]

None. I couldn't give a fuk because it's nothing to do with me nor has 0 effect on my life.
What doesn't effect me - Doesn't bother me. Unless it has a direct impact on my life then i couldn't give a fuk.

Thankfully i don't live in the brainwashed, propaganda driven US of A

By you're logic murder shouldn't be illegal. Nor should...anything?

Under absolutely no circumstances would you ever be forced to be life support for another human being or donate blood or organs to them against your will. Even if not doing so resulted in their death.

Thus the same principle applies with a fetus, whether you consider it a human being or not.

The difference is passive vs active. not saving someone =/= killing someone. It's just not equivalent to an organ donation.

no a foetus is not a living human being

that's an emotional construct

until it has developed to a point where the brain has developed sufficiently and it is capable of living outside the womb with or without support it is a potential

less than 2% of babies born before 24 weeks have no significant physical and neural defects. 2%

It is living. It's species is human.

It meets any scientific criteria for either.

You need to provide a count argument for one of the two if you want to claim it's not a living human being. Anything else is emotion.

[wincel]

[Foxmulder0]

When ya know how abortion is done its pretty pathetic the creatures who abort their own child(obv not including chitty circumstances).

I also noticed most pro abortion people are genuinely unattractive people. Dont worry sweetheart, we dont wanna bang ya.

If it has a heartbeat i mean.. cmon

Let yourself deal with it for 8 months n give up for adoption for the poor people(i i know 2 couples who are awesome people) that couldnt procreate who would be AMAZING parents.

Its not relly just selfish, its ****ing disturbing

[ElrondHubbard]

Some remain tumours after birth and grow up to be miscers.

[randombrah102]

lol no, you dont get to weasel out of that one with some arbitrary bs like "bloodlines"

A girl is living her life minding her business and she gets raped and impregnated. You believe that she must now carry that baby to full term and give it up for adoption. She cannot abort it because that would be murder according to you, so she must now accept the fact that her body will be an incubator for 9 months since a human life is greater than whatever troubles an unwanted pregnancy will bring.

Well I am dying and I need a liver, your liver is a match. Human life > another humans inconvenience as we already established so you need to go under the knife and deal with whatever risks and inconveniences that brings in order to safe my life.

I guess China has been doing it right with all the organ harvesting?

VegasLifter (or any other anti abortionist) pls respond

[isingmodel]

By you're logic murder shouldn't be illegal. Nor should...anything?




The difference is passive vs active. not saving someone =/= killing someone. It's just not equivalent to an organ donation.




It is living. It's species is human.

It meets any scientific criteria for either.

You need to provide a count argument for one of the two if you want to claim it's not a living human being. Anything else is emotion.

Removing a fetus from its mother pre viability will lead to death necessarily regardless of the method - even if it were removed completely intact via C-section. The point is that the fetus doesn't have any de-facto right to the woman's body just because it's going to die without it. Same exact concept as organ donation.

Also we all know that a fertilised egg is human, in that it is distinctly of the human species. That does not =/= it's a human being (not that it would make any difference if it was, either - still has no right to the body of someone else).