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  1. #1
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    Minimum wage discussion.

    I've had this talk a few times recently. I don't think I hear this aspect discussed nearly enough.

    When I started a basic office job at 18, minimum wage was pretty much ONLY for ditch diggers and burger flippers. Minimum wage was $6.75 and I was getting paid $10- almost 50% above that. This was VERY COMMON for even entry level positions.

    17 years later, minimum wage in California is now $12. Most entry office jobs start within $1-2 of that- meaning no more than about 15% above minimum wage. Heck, lots of front desk stuff now pays at minimum wage.

    The biggest loser in the whole minimum wage battle isn't employers. They'll cut back and consumers will just suffer poor, slow service (fast foot 5 years ago vs today). It's not even consumers dealing with the inflation.

    The biggest losers when the min wages increase are the lower-middle class workers. People who have high school diplomas, who are working to actually have a career, and who SHOULD have an edge on people flipping burgers. Admin assistants, customer service reps, or receptionists. Their competitive position in the economy has now been basically leveled with that of day laborers who don't need to speak or write. The value of knowing how to function in a white-collar office setting as opposed to retail is now close to $0.

    Essentially, it's creating a larger class of working poor than if they never changed the wage at all.
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    Higher minimum wage made a 8$ burger at the pub now cost 15$. Srs. Right when it changed everywhere got new menus with changed prices.

    Im lucky I make alot of money so I can still buy these luxuries if i want.

    But the guy across the street... his wage has been stagnent for quite some time, the family is definitely pay check to pay check. Those families suffer the most from the across the board price increases due to minimum wage hike.
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    How so? In what way is paying more workers more money "creating a larger class of working poor"?

    $14 an hour full time would be $29,120 a year.

    Wish you the best finding a one bedroom that is decent at all now for much under $1200 a month.

    $14,400 a year means that for a $1200 one bedroom to be affordable you need to make about $3650 a month for your rent to equal 1/3rd your gross pay.

    At $14 an hour these people are only making about $2400 a month.

    They are already poor. Paying the people below them more doesn't make them more poor.
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    Isn't that the whole point...to have only two classes, the serfs and the lords.
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    Originally Posted by katya422 View Post
    Paying the people below them more doesn't make them more poor.
    When everybody poor makes as much as middle class, the middle class is not the middle any more. The rich are still rich though which is all that matters to anybody pushing this.
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    It's a non-issue IMO. Less than 2% of the workforce earns minimum wage and most of them are young people who don't need the money. Adults with responsibilities don't work minimum wage jobs and if they do it's not for long
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    Originally Posted by katya422 View Post
    How so? In what way is paying more workers more money "creating a larger class of working poor"?

    $14 an hour full time would be $29,120 a year.

    Wish you the best finding a one bedroom that is decent at all now for much under $1200 a month.

    $14,400 a year means that for a $1200 one bedroom to be affordable you need to make about $3650 a month for your rent to equal 1/3rd your gross pay.

    At $14 an hour these people are only making about $2400 a month.

    They are already poor. Paying the people below them more doesn't make them more poor.
    Generally the more money that’s pumped into an economy the more inflation we see. Also, the cost of doing business for companies who have employees at minimum wage increases, so the cost of their goods will go up assuming they keep the same workforce. Say minimum wage is $7. Everyone making $7 an hour is at the bottom. Now imagine someone making $10/hour. They have a decent advantage over the bottom. When minimum wage becomes $10/hour they’re now at the bottom along with everyone else who made between 7-10 dollars/hour. Raising it may slightly help the bottom, but most people who weren’t at the bottom and now are will probably be worse off.
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  8. #8
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    Originally Posted by katya422 View Post
    How so? In what way is paying more workers more money "creating a larger class of working poor"?

    $14 an hour full time would be $29,120 a year.

    Wish you the best finding a one bedroom that is decent at all now for much under $1200 a month.

    $14,400 a year means that for a $1200 one bedroom to be affordable you need to make about $3650 a month for your rent to equal 1/3rd your gross pay.

    At $14 an hour these people are only making about $2400 a month.

    They are already poor. Paying the people below them more doesn't make them more poor.
    minimum wage is for entry level people and kids, you are not meant to live off minimum wage

    this idea that minimum wage should be a livable wage for a single individual doesnt work, youll make things so expensive that only rich people can do anything
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    Banned AlwaysFocus's Avatar
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    What most people dont get until its too late is the costs of goods rise bigly when minimum wage is increased. So middle class joe can now only buy things like a lower middle class joe.

    Someone scraping by with his family while making 20 an hour might not make it anymore with the costs of everything going up to pay for the increase in bottom wages


    This wouldnt be a problem if all wages rose % wise in relation to the increase in minimum wage

    But most humans like to learn the hard and expensive way I guess.
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    I would lower it to $ 6,00.
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    Originally Posted by katya422 View Post
    How so? In what way is paying more workers more money "creating a larger class of working poor"?

    $14 an hour full time would be $29,120 a year.

    Wish you the best finding a one bedroom that is decent at all now for much under $1200 a month.

    $14,400 a year means that for a $1200 one bedroom to be affordable you need to make about $3650 a month for your rent to equal 1/3rd your gross pay.

    At $14 an hour these people are only making about $2400 a month.

    They are already poor. Paying the people below them more doesn't make them more poor.
    Jesus christ ya dumb kunt, this is why more woman being in positions of power is ****ing up our god damn society.
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    Originally Posted by AlwaysFocus View Post
    Higher minimum wage made a 8$ burger at the pub now cost 15$. Srs. Right when it changed everywhere got new menus with changed prices.

    Im lucky I make alot of money so I can still buy these luxuries if i want.

    But the guy across the street... his wage has been stagnent for quite some time, the family is definitely pay check to pay check. Those families suffer the most from the across the board price increases due to minimum wage hike.
    You clearly don’t make a lot of money if you think a $15 burger is a luxury.

    The issue isn’t minimum wage. No one should be working a minimum wage job to feed a family. Even with a little bit of effort you should be able to advance and increase your earnings. The problem is with stagnant middle class wages for decades.
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    Originally Posted by katya422 View Post
    How so? In what way is paying more workers more money "creating a larger class of working poor"?

    $14 an hour full time would be $29,120 a year.

    Wish you the best finding a one bedroom that is decent at all now for much under $1200 a month.

    $14,400 a year means that for a $1200 one bedroom to be affordable you need to make about $3650 a month for your rent to equal 1/3rd your gross pay.

    At $14 an hour these people are only making about $2400 a month.

    They are already poor. Paying the people below them more doesn't make them more poor.
    It raises the cost of goods. This devalues earnings.
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    Originally Posted by AriGhold View Post
    You clearly don’t make a lot of money if you think a $15 burger is a luxury.

    The issue isn’t minimum wage. No one should be working a minimum wage job to feed a family. Even with a little bit of effort you should be able to advance and increase your earnings. The problem is with stagnant middle class wages for decades.
    im not getting into a dick swinging fight with you over how much i make.

    But anyone who can barely afford to eat out at a pub on friday when prices were below 10$, will they still be able to go with prices above 15$? To those people that is a luxury, they now can only do maybe every 2 weeks.


    See im not an arrogant ****er like you. I KNOW what its like to have money and to not have money.

    To some people, driving a car is a luxury as opposed to only being able to afford transit.

    Basic things are luxuries to some people understand?


    I get it. You use insults like stupid, uneducated vote for trump, we all know what kind of ******* poster you are.
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    Originally Posted by AriGhold View Post
    You clearly don’t make a lot of money if you think a $15 burger is a luxury.

    The issue isn’t minimum wage. No one should be working a minimum wage job to feed a family. Even with a little bit of effort you should be able to advance and increase your earnings. The problem is with stagnant middle class wages for decades.
    Liberal retard doesnt understand economics, who would have possibly guessed this to be the case?

    ****ing retard, cost of living and expense is area dependent. Big city liberal **** holes cost a **** ton to live in because moron demorats **** the local economy up so they have to keep inflating pay and costs to try and make it.

    $15 for a burger is a STUPID amount of money to pay in any normal city. The fact you dont even seem to understand this shows how ignorant you are.
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    kein mitleid fr mehrheit Stizzel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AriGhold View Post
    You clearly don’t make a lot of money if you think a $15 burger is a luxury.

    The issue isn’t minimum wage. No one should be working a minimum wage job to feed a family. Even with a little bit of effort you should be able to advance and increase your earnings. The problem is with stagnant middle class wages for decades.
    Not a smart lad are you
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    Minimum wage shouldn’t exist, neither should any social program for any able bodied people between the age of 14 and 65. The market will dictate what’s workers are worth, paying workers more than what they’re worth makes no logical sense.
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    Originally Posted by SmillironS View Post
    Minimum wage shouldn’t exist, neither should any social program for any able bodied people between the age of 14 and 65. The market will dictate what’s workers are worth, paying workers more than what they’re worth makes no logical sense.
    An interesting factoid, the original minimum wage laws were lobbied for by white labor unions that knew it would help keep blacks from competing with their labor. Blacks were breaking into the middle class by being willing to work for lower wages, so minimum wage laws helped to price them out of the market.
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    Originally Posted by jtaylor2010 View Post
    Generally the more money that’s pumped into an economy the more inflation we see. Also, the cost of doing business for companies who have employees at minimum wage increases, so the cost of their goods will go up assuming they keep the same workforce. Say minimum wage is $7. Everyone making $7 an hour is at the bottom. Now imagine someone making $10/hour. They have a decent advantage over the bottom. When minimum wage becomes $10/hour they’re now at the bottom along with everyone else who made between 7-10 dollars/hour. Raising it may slightly help the bottom, but most people who weren’t at the bottom and now are will probably be worse off.
    It just isn't that simple. The minimum wage is only one small factor in inflation and historically most increases in the minimum wage have not been followed by increased inflation.

    Only 22% of the time (twice) has an increase of the minimum wage corresponded with an increase to the inflation rate. On the other hand, 78% of time that there was a minimum wage increase since 1980, there hasn’t been an increase to the annual inflation rate. If raising the minimum wage was going to cause inflation, it would’ve increased — but it didn’t, and doesn’t. It’s a historical reality that can be proven when you look at the the minimum wage increases versus historical inflation rates.
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    Originally Posted by AlwaysFocus View Post
    minimum wage is for entry level people and kids, you are not meant to live off minimum wage

    this idea that minimum wage should be a livable wage for a single individual doesnt work, youll make things so expensive that only rich people can do anything
    I didn't state that a minimum wage should be a livable wage, just that increasing it wouldn't make higher wage earners "poorer" because there are other factors involved in inflation and when inflation did occur:

    In 1989, the inflation rate was 4.8%, and rose to 5.4% in 1990.
    Between 2007 and 2008 when the minimum wage was raised to $5.85, the inflation rate went up from 2.8% to 3.8%.
    We saw an increase in inflation of 1% or less which isn't exactly catastrophic.

    Originally Posted by SmillironS View Post
    Minimum wage shouldn’t exist, neither should any social program for any able bodied people between the age of 14 and 65. The market will dictate what’s workers are worth, paying workers more than what they’re worth makes no logical sense.
    I understand the impulse to force people to pay their own way. It just isn't that easy in real life. There are only so many jobs (usually more people than jobs). Without a safety net or a minimum wage workers are more likely to be exploited and those that can not get work (or earn enough to live) are then forced into vagrancy or criminality to survive.

    See: the Dust Bowl/Great Depression

    So you could get rid of the safety net and have every city looking more like the big cities on the west coast with the bonus of the higher crime rates found in failed rust belt cities.

    People don't just conveniently blink out of existence because they don't have their needs met.

    Also 14 year olds still fall under compulsory education and are not allowed to work most jobs.
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    Originally Posted by katya422 View Post
    It just isn't that simple. The minimum wage is only one small factor in inflation and historically most increases in the minimum wage have not been followed by increased inflation.



    https://medium.com/@discomfiting/deb...n-c0db32f579f8



    I didn't state that a minimum wage should be a livable wage, just that increasing it wouldn't make higher wage earners "poorer" because there are other factors involved in inflation and when inflation did occur:





    We saw an increase in inflation of 1% or less which isn't exactly catastrophic.



    I understand the impulse to force people to pay their own way. It just isn't that easy in real life. There are only so many jobs (usually more people than jobs). Without a safety net or a minimum wage workers are more likely to be exploited and those that can not get work (or earn enough to live) are then forced into vagrancy or criminality to survive.

    See: the Dust Bowl/Great Depression

    So you could get rid of the safety net and have every city looking more like the big cities on the west coast with the bonus of the higher crime rates found in failed rust belt cities.

    People don't just conveniently blink out of existence because they don't have their needs met.

    Also 14 year olds still fall under compulsory education and are not allowed to work most jobs.
    Want money? Get a job. Want more money? Get another job or increase your skill set so your value as a worker will go up. I grew up dirt poor in the poorest county in the nation with the highest poverty, unemployment, and crime rate in the nation. I worked my arse off and in 34 short years have become a successful multi small business owner and a large land owner. Every day I see people come in my businesses who are able to work but choose not to. The social programs that exist today amount to nothing more than tax payer funded laziness.
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    I love minimum wage laws. Literally the one law to protect workers' wages, in contrast to decades of legislation to protect the profits of the 1%.

    Can't imagine what this chart would look like without minimum wage laws

    Last edited by benedetto27; 11-16-2019 at 07:07 PM.
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    Originally Posted by benedetto27 View Post
    I love minimum wage laws. Literally the one law to protect workers' wages, in contrast to decades of legislation to protect the profits of the 1%.

    Can't imagine what this chart would look like without minimum wage laws

    Imagine being such a low quality individual that only way you can get a raise is to ask the government to legislate it for you
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    Originally Posted by Stizzel View Post
    Imagine being such a low quality individual that only way you can get a raise is to ask the government to legislate it for you
    this wtf
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    Originally Posted by Underwrought View Post
    Jesus christ ya dumb kunt, this is why more woman being in positions of power is ****ing up our god damn society.
    i like how your post is 100% personal insult and you've contributed nothing to the discussion. you dont even explain why youre mad or why you think she's wrong.

    dumbass
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    Originally Posted by katya422 View Post
    It just isn't that simple. The minimum wage is only one small factor in inflation and historically most increases in the minimum wage have not been followed by increased inflation.



    https://medium.com/@discomfiting/deb...n-c0db32f579f8



    I didn't state that a minimum wage should be a livable wage, just that increasing it wouldn't make higher wage earners "poorer" because there are other factors involved in inflation and when inflation did occur:





    We saw an increase in inflation of 1% or less which isn't exactly catastrophic.

    Right, it isn’t simple and we could go back and forth all day about all kinds of things regarding the issue. As far as your points though, in those cases the increase in minimum wage was pretty small, correct? It’s not like the scenarios we’re talking about in which you bump it up $5 or so. So yeah, if you bump it up 30 cents it probably won’t affect much.
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    I used to make minimum wage. Then I graduated high school...
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    Originally Posted by SmillironS View Post
    Minimum wage shouldn’t exist, neither should any social program for any able bodied people between the age of 14 and 65. The market will dictate what’s workers are worth, paying workers more than what they’re worth makes no logical sense.
    No social program should exist, period. If you can't pull your weight, then you die. That is nature. When did everyone become such a p***y?
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    Originally Posted by superiorlogic View Post
    It's a non-issue IMO. Less than 2% of the workforce earns minimum wage and most of them are young people who don't need the money. Adults with responsibilities don't work minimum wage jobs and if they do it's not for long



    This doesnt address the OP.

    Cat brah is talking about the effects on those making slightly more than the minimum wage. Their buying power or effective wage gets reduced.
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    Originally Posted by katya422 View Post
    It just isn't that simple. The minimum wage is only one small factor in inflation and historically most increases in the minimum wage have not been followed by increased inflation.



    https://medium.com/@discomfiting/deb...n-c0db32f579f8

    lol at linking to this communist talking points article on medium.

    The woke lesbian author proudly worships Lenin.

    Usually communists go with the "communism just hasnt been done right" argument but not this retard, to her somehow soviet communism with mass starvation and poverty, was a great success.
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    I don't understand the appeal to raise minimum wage. Anybody working right now needing minimum wage to go up so they can afford stuff should probably be looking for ways to make more money, $0.50-$1 an hour isn't jack chit.
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