Reply
Results 1 to 14 of 14
  1. #1
    Registered User ImplodingFish's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2015
    Age: 29
    Posts: 12
    Rep Power: 0
    ImplodingFish has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    ImplodingFish is offline

    Why not do more exercises?

    Long post ahead

    The majority of the programs or videos that I see online do about 6 different exercises within a single workout. I can understand from a powerlifting perspective why a lot of programs would be set up like this. However, for gaining size for example, why not do more exercises if it’s possible?

    I find that I’ll have workouts where I may do 10 or so different exercises. Each one having 4-5 sets of somewhere between 8-20 reps depending on the movement (compounds usually being 8-12 depending on the week and isolation movements being 10-20 depending on the week). I always do a weight that I can just barely reach my rep range on. I usually am somewhere between 2 reps left and 2 reps away on each set. In other words I’m not just doing easy sets & reps. I always make technique & mind/muscle connection a high priority.

    I understand from the perspective of someone who may not have the time or may not be ready for that intense of a workout. However, I’m 21 and in college and usually lift every day for 1.5-2.5 hours unless everything on my body is sore, but I usually have something I can work out. I have usually done routines with a 4 or 5 day split, however I’m thinking of going to a push/pull/legs split.

    -21 y/o
    -5’4”
    -160lbs
    -10%bf
    -I’ve been lifting consistently for about 4.5 years other than during wrestling season (about 4 months a year) when I lift when I can.

    If I’m capable of doing 8-10 exercises of about 4 sets each at a high intensity, should I? If not, why not? This is something I’ve wondered for a long time and have always had trouble finding an answer to.
    Reply With Quote

  2. #2
    pay the iron price SuffolkPunch's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2007
    Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Posts: 47,969
    Rep Power: 1256612
    SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz
    SuffolkPunch is offline
    A balance of directed adaptation (getting better at a small number of movements progressively) and variety (doing enough different things to cover all required muscles and avoid repeated bouts effect).

    This balance is towards the directed adaptation side to push progress forwards at the best possible rate when you are a novice. Variety is generally brought in more as you get more advanced.
    Reply With Quote

  3. #3
    Registered User ImplodingFish's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2015
    Age: 29
    Posts: 12
    Rep Power: 0
    ImplodingFish has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    ImplodingFish is offline
    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    A balance of directed adaptation (getting better at a small number of movements progressively) and variety (doing enough different things to cover all required muscles and avoid repeated bouts effect).

    This balance is towards the directed adaptation side to push progress forwards at the best possible rate when you are a novice. Variety is generally brought in more as you get more advanced.
    Thanks for the quick reply! I’m wondering, if it’s possible to continually improve though, in this case, would it be a good idea to do? In other words, what are the (if any) downsides to working out this way? I have always paid attention to improving on volume and weight over the years while maintaining proper form. If it’s not a good idea, what should I do instead and why?
    Reply With Quote

  4. #4
    pay the iron price SuffolkPunch's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2007
    Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Posts: 47,969
    Rep Power: 1256612
    SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz
    SuffolkPunch is offline
    That is kind of the point of training. Unless you reach a stage where you are happy with your current strength/physique levels and just want to maintain it.

    You should be able to keep improving. The improvements will tail off to almost nothing as you get near your maximum genetic potential - but this takes years of seriously hard work. Most people plateau because they aren't willing to push their workloads high enough.
    Reply With Quote

  5. #5
    Registered User ImplodingFish's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2015
    Age: 29
    Posts: 12
    Rep Power: 0
    ImplodingFish has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    ImplodingFish is offline
    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    That is kind of the point of training. Unless you reach a stage where you are happy with your current strength/physique levels and just want to maintain it.

    You should be able to keep improving. The improvements will tail off to almost nothing as you get near your maximum genetic potential - but this takes years of seriously hard work. Most people plateau because they aren't willing to push their workloads high enough.
    So with this, are you saying that I should or should not continue to do this? I know you mentioned repeated bout effect. I should’ve mentioned that I am not just doing the same exercises in every single workout for that group. So long as I continue to use different exercises every so often and I continually improve while also continuing to take recovery (nutrition, sleep, etc.) seriously (I’m usually sore for1-3 days, sometimes 4 for legs) should I continue to do this or not?
    Reply With Quote

  6. #6
    Registered User ImplodingFish's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2015
    Age: 29
    Posts: 12
    Rep Power: 0
    ImplodingFish has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    ImplodingFish is offline
    Originally Posted by ImplodingFish View Post
    So with this, are you saying that I should or should not continue to do this? I know you mentioned repeated bout effect. I should’ve mentioned that I am not just doing the same exercises in every single workout for that group. So long as I continue to use different exercises every so often and I continually improve while also continuing to take recovery (nutrition, sleep, etc.) seriously (I’m usually sore for1-3 days, sometimes 4 for legs) should I continue to do this or not?
    I should also ask, are there other methods that would help me gain size quicker than this method. If there are better methods for me then what are they and why? Thank you for being so helpful by the way. I’ve always done a great job of researching and trying things and learning on my own but this is stuff I’ve always wondered about.
    Reply With Quote

  7. #7
    pay the iron price SuffolkPunch's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2007
    Location: Suffolk, United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Posts: 47,969
    Rep Power: 1256612
    SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz SuffolkPunch has the mod powerz
    SuffolkPunch is offline
    I didn't go through what you are doing with a fine toothed comb but if you are able to increase weight used/reps per set/sets regularly then it's all good and the rest is mostly down to preference.
    Reply With Quote

  8. #8
    Registered User dazitmayn's Avatar
    Join Date: Sep 2019
    Age: 49
    Posts: 489
    Rep Power: 987
    dazitmayn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) dazitmayn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) dazitmayn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) dazitmayn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) dazitmayn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) dazitmayn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) dazitmayn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) dazitmayn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) dazitmayn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) dazitmayn is a jewel in the rough. (+500) dazitmayn is a jewel in the rough. (+500)
    dazitmayn is offline
    - you don't need to fit in every exercise in your program to get stronger and gain size
    - adding different exercises for the sake of adding exercises is dumb
    - people have finite recovery resources nor do they have the ability to do extremely high volume
    - you don't get enough practice and get proficient at the movements if you are spreading yourself so thin

    if you can do 35-50 sets each day for 7 days a week, with each set within 2 reps of failure, without aching joints and a high degree of soreness, developing overuse injuries, without developing recovery issues I applaud you because this would kill the vast majority of people within a few weeks. I'm usually highly spent after 3-5 sets of heavy squats, 3-5 sets of heavy deadlifts and 2-3 other isolation-based exercises and so would most people.

    when people say this, it's highly suspect because when people mention doing high volume with high amounts of exercise selection, it usually means they aren't pushing sets hard enough or close enough to failure. It also usually means that they are novices because recovering from a hard set of 50 lb squats is vastly different than recovering from a hard set of 500 lbs, no matter how big or small you are. And quite possibly doing mostly fluff and isolation based movements rather than having a healthy mix of heavy compounds and isolation movements.

    Just because you can, doesn't mean you should, but if you don't develop any of what I mentioned above and are able to make progress over time it isn't the worst thing in the world.
    Reply With Quote

  9. #9
    4am club health4life24's Avatar
    Join Date: Mar 2013
    Posts: 12,058
    Rep Power: 215188
    health4life24 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) health4life24 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) health4life24 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) health4life24 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) health4life24 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) health4life24 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) health4life24 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) health4life24 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) health4life24 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) health4life24 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000) health4life24 has a reputation beyond repute. Second best rank possible! (+100000)
    health4life24 is offline
    As someone who has done as many as 30-40 or more sets a day for 6 days a week before, I disagree with the assumption that just because someone is doing high volume means they aren't pushing themselves. In some cases sure, but some people naturally respond better to higher volume. More so someone who has been training for years and has gradually adapted to the volume over time.

    When I was training with that much volume I was increasing the weights every workout, increasing the reps and making steady progress nicely. And my body felt great. No injuries or anything. But I also wasn't being stupid and sacrificing form to lift more weight. I also have been training for years and adapted to that kind of training over a long period of time.

    For most it might be too much, but that doesn't mean it's too much for everyone.

    Certainly not for a beginner though. That's more of an advanced training style. Any high volume routine like that is something you work up to, you don't just hop on it having never trained before or with very limited experience.

    I think in the end you should use the amount of volume that is appropriate for you. Figure out what works for you and go for it.

    Find the training style that works for you and do that. And learning what works and what doesn't comes with experience. Because what works for one person isn't gonna necessarily generate the same results for another.
    - Your mindset influences your outcome. It's time to take out phrases like "I can't" or "I don't have time" and replace them with phrases like "I will make the time" and "I will keep working at it until I find a way that works." Success starts with the right mindset and believing in yourself and your dreams.
    Reply With Quote

  10. #10
    Registered User ImplodingFish's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2015
    Age: 29
    Posts: 12
    Rep Power: 0
    ImplodingFish has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    ImplodingFish is offline
    Originally Posted by dazitmayn View Post
    - you don't need to fit in every exercise in your program to get stronger and gain size
    - adding different exercises for the sake of adding exercises is dumb
    - people have finite recovery resources nor do they have the ability to do extremely high volume
    - you don't get enough practice and get proficient at the movements if you are spreading yourself so thin

    if you can do 35-50 sets each day for 7 days a week, with each set within 2 reps of failure, without aching joints and a high degree of soreness, developing overuse injuries, without developing recovery issues I applaud you because this would kill the vast majority of people within a few weeks. I'm usually highly spent after 3-5 sets of heavy squats, 3-5 sets of heavy deadlifts and 2-3 other isolation-based exercises and so would most people.

    when people say this, it's highly suspect because when people mention doing high volume with high amounts of exercise selection, it usually means they aren't pushing sets hard enough or close enough to failure. It also usually means that they are novices because recovering from a hard set of 50 lb squats is vastly different than recovering from a hard set of 500 lbs, no matter how big or small you are. And quite possibly doing mostly fluff and isolation based movements rather than having a healthy mix of heavy compounds and isolation movements.

    Just because you can, doesn't mean you should, but if you don't develop any of what I mentioned above and are able to make progress over time it isn't the worst thing in the world.
    This makes a lot of sense and was kind of what I figured which is what made me originally ask the question in the first place. I’ve definitely had days where I literally can’t walk after legs or the relatively same to other groups. I always make sure to do my important compounds as most of them are my favorite anyway. I just wasn’t sure if it was mostly due to a lot of people’s lack of time to train or maybe their ability to recover. Like I said I’m a college student so once class is out I have all day to lift and I take my nutrition and recovery very seriously. Thank you for the reply!
    Reply With Quote

  11. #11
    f you halle gerbilz's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2007
    Location: Washington, United States
    Posts: 11,595
    Rep Power: 9530
    gerbilz is a name known to all. (+5000) gerbilz is a name known to all. (+5000) gerbilz is a name known to all. (+5000) gerbilz is a name known to all. (+5000) gerbilz is a name known to all. (+5000) gerbilz is a name known to all. (+5000) gerbilz is a name known to all. (+5000) gerbilz is a name known to all. (+5000) gerbilz is a name known to all. (+5000) gerbilz is a name known to all. (+5000) gerbilz is a name known to all. (+5000)
    gerbilz is offline
    Originally Posted by ImplodingFish View Post
    Long post ahead

    The majority of the programs or videos that I see online do about 6 different exercises within a single workout. I can understand from a powerlifting perspective why a lot of programs would be set up like this. However, for gaining size for example, why not do more exercises if it’s possible?

    I find that I’ll have workouts where I may do 10 or so different exercises. Each one having 4-5 sets of somewhere between 8-20 reps depending on the movement (compounds usually being 8-12 depending on the week and isolation movements being 10-20 depending on the week). I always do a weight that I can just barely reach my rep range on. I usually am somewhere between 2 reps left and 2 reps away on each set. In other words I’m not just doing easy sets & reps. I always make technique & mind/muscle connection a high priority.

    I understand from the perspective of someone who may not have the time or may not be ready for that intense of a workout. However, I’m 21 and in college and usually lift every day for 1.5-2.5 hours unless everything on my body is sore, but I usually have something I can work out. I have usually done routines with a 4 or 5 day split, however I’m thinking of going to a push/pull/legs split.

    -21 y/o
    -5’4”
    -160lbs
    -10%bf
    -I’ve been lifting consistently for about 4.5 years other than during wrestling season (about 4 months a year) when I lift when I can.

    If I’m capable of doing 8-10 exercises of about 4 sets each at a high intensity, should I? If not, why not? This is something I’ve wondered for a long time and have always had trouble finding an answer to.

    Post your routine. I’m really curious. Are you using light weight or something?

    I look a lot different now that my shoulders are healed but less can be more.

    Focus on form, moderate weight, shorter rest periods = pretty golden.

    Say for chest day

    Warm up / stretching / etc

    Flat BB Bench 3 x 8-10
    Incline BB Bench 3 x 8-10
    Flat DB Bench 3 x 8 or so
    Flyes 2 x burn outs

    This isn’t the perfect routine but my split has been helping me so much as well as strength

    All slow and controlled

    I’m going to switch up to a better routine when I’m done with PT but I don’t lift until I collapse. Just until I can feel the fatigue in my muscles.
    educate yourself before you wreck yourself.
    Reply With Quote

  12. #12
    Registered User ImplodingFish's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2015
    Age: 29
    Posts: 12
    Rep Power: 0
    ImplodingFish has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    ImplodingFish is offline
    Originally Posted by gerbilz View Post
    Post your routine. I’m really curious. Are you using light weight or something?

    I look a lot different now that my shoulders are healed but less can be more.

    Focus on form, moderate weight, shorter rest periods = pretty golden.

    Say for chest day

    Warm up / stretching / etc

    Flat BB Bench 3 x 8-10
    Incline BB Bench 3 x 8-10
    Flat DB Bench 3 x 8 or so
    Flyes 2 x burn outs

    This isn’t the perfect routine but my split has been helping me so much as well as strength

    All slow and controlled

    I’m going to switch up to a better routine when I’m done with PT but I don’t lift until I collapse. Just until I can feel the fatigue in my muscles.
    Here’s an example of a leg day that I would do. I know there are less exercises than what I said but with legs I see even less than what I mentioned and this is more than what I always see.

    Squat 4x8
    Rdl 4x10
    Hip thrusters 4x10
    Abductor 4x15
    Adductor 4x15
    Quad extension 4x15
    Hamstring curls 4x15
    Leg press or hack squat 4x12-15
    Calf Raises 4x15

    For this specific routine I would be doing the first three exercises and then everything after as explosive positives with a hold at the top and a slow negative with another hold at the bottom.

    I’ve done other types of this workout such as changing the sets and reps or doing my isolations first and doing more eccentric focused reps for the compounds and focusing on volume for the day maybe with some different stance squats, etc. This is just an example of the exercises that I definitely want to hit in a leg workout. Last spring I did German volume training for a couple months and did not do as many if any other compounds besides squats but I still did all of my isolations after.
    I do want to add that I am absolutely dead after these workouts. For some of them I’m dead well before finishing. If I do my isolations first on leg day then my compounds are miserable. I have a ton of calories and water in my body and I get light headed all the time. A couple weeks ago I threw up on leg day. Three of my friends did the same workout and one of them did too. I just want to clarify that while I’m saying I’m doing these workouts, I’m not doing them easily by any means.
    Reply With Quote

  13. #13
    12 pack > 6 pack PurmaBulker1984's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2019
    Posts: 555
    Rep Power: 2232
    PurmaBulker1984 is just really nice. (+1000) PurmaBulker1984 is just really nice. (+1000) PurmaBulker1984 is just really nice. (+1000) PurmaBulker1984 is just really nice. (+1000) PurmaBulker1984 is just really nice. (+1000) PurmaBulker1984 is just really nice. (+1000) PurmaBulker1984 is just really nice. (+1000) PurmaBulker1984 is just really nice. (+1000) PurmaBulker1984 is just really nice. (+1000) PurmaBulker1984 is just really nice. (+1000) PurmaBulker1984 is just really nice. (+1000)
    PurmaBulker1984 is offline
    As a beginner you want to do a few exercises so that you get proficient in them and wework the muscle to the best of your ability.

    As an intermediate you'll add more variety of exercises. 1 reason is to not overdo the same movement pattern for injury reasons. Another is to hit the muscles with slightly different motor patterns (some call this muscle confusion).

    One issue I see with your workout is that 9 large exercises will cause 2 scenarios. Either 1. you've coasted to that point which it's a waste of time and energy. 2. you've gone all out and any muscle building benefits were gone 1/2 way through the work out. The remaining sets are just creating damage. The second option will give you better results in the first few weeks but cumulative fatigue and the fact that your body only had so much time and resources to repair before the growth window closes, will cause you to stop progressing.
    160 lbs and jacked is about as impressive as D cups on a 300lb woman
    Reply With Quote

  14. #14
    Registered User ImplodingFish's Avatar
    Join Date: May 2015
    Age: 29
    Posts: 12
    Rep Power: 0
    ImplodingFish has no reputation, good or bad yet. (0)
    ImplodingFish is offline
    Originally Posted by PurmaBulker1984 View Post
    As a beginner you want to do a few exercises so that you get proficient in them and wework the muscle to the best of your ability.

    As an intermediate you'll add more variety of exercises. 1 reason is to not overdo the same movement pattern for injury reasons. Another is to hit the muscles with slightly different motor patterns (some call this muscle confusion).

    One issue I see with your workout is that 9 large exercises will cause 2 scenarios. Either 1. you've coasted to that point which it's a waste of time and energy. 2. you've gone all out and any muscle building benefits were gone 1/2 way through the work out. The remaining sets are just creating damage. The second option will give you better results in the first few weeks but cumulative fatigue and the fact that your body only had so much time and resources to repair before the growth window closes, will cause you to stop progressing.
    What you mentioned for the second possibility is something that I’ve wondered before. Basically just wondering about overtraining. I’ve always wondered about that and that’s why I mentioned that I always put an emphasis on recovery,etc. I know that a workout like that is a lot and I usually am crazy sore but I’m usually good within 3 days tops.
    Reply With Quote

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts