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  1. #61
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    Originally Posted by topperstyle View Post
    Anyone who is remotely close to being familiar with the actual law knows that hearsay is the weaker option.
    Anyone who knows the actual law would say “it depends.”
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  2. #62
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    Originally Posted by topperstyle View Post
    Anyone who is remotely close to being familiar with the actual law knows that hearsay is the weaker option.
    youre lucky you have a couple of resident attorneys here to weigh in on these things and explain that hearsay is sometimes solid, admissible evidence

    its not a blanket "all hearsay is bad" rule

    there are exceptions. its actually pretty nuanced
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  3. #63
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    Originally Posted by cashinout View Post
    impossible
    Just joking obviously.

    All of the gospels are heresy lol.

    That turned out to be pretty successful.
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  4. #64
    Registered User sandaltan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
    Just joking obviously.

    All of the gospels are heresy lol.

    That turned out to be pretty successful.
    hearsay can also be heresy i suppose heh
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  5. #65
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    Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
    Just joking obviously.

    All of the gospels are heresy lol.

    That turned out to be pretty successful.
    Hearsay is what the high priests used to crucify Jesus
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  6. #66
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    Originally Posted by cashinout View Post
    Hearsay is what the high priests used to crucify Jesus
    But was there a jury? Cause at least in the US hearsay rules are thrown out the window unless we are trying to baby the jury we don't actually trust that much.
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  7. #67
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    youre lucky you have a couple of resident attorneys here to weigh in on these things and explain that hearsay is sometimes solid, admissible evidence

    its not a blanket "all hearsay is bad" rule

    there are exceptions. its actually pretty nuanced
    He didn’t say it’s all bad, he said it’s the weaker option. If you and miscinbro disagree perhaps you can point out an example in which a lawyer would prefer to present hearsay to support his case instead of direct evidence.
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  8. #68
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    Originally Posted by jtaylor2010 View Post
    He didn’t say it’s all bad, he said it’s the weaker option. If you and miscinbro disagree perhaps you can point out an example in which a lawyer would prefer to present hearsay to support his case instead of direct evidence.
    im not a trial attorney and miscinbro probably knows the rules better than i do so he can correct me, but evidence is evidence if admissible. there is no such thing as "better" evidence except perhaps clear video footage. direct evidence and admissible hearsay are equally "strong."
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  9. #69
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    Originally Posted by cashinout View Post
    Hearsay is what the high priests used to crucify Jesus
    I think it's interesting that the earliest fragment of the bible...it's Pontius Pilot saying What is truth?

    Jesus got in trouble because he kicked a bunch of guys asses in the temple and royally pissed them off.

    Throwing over tables, whipping guys telling them to stfu.

    Lol.

    That would have been hilarious to witness.
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  10. #70
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    im not a trial attorney and miscinbro probably knows the rules better than i do so he can correct me, but evidence is evidence if admissible. there is no such thing as "better" evidence except perhaps clear video footage. direct evidence and admissible hearsay are equally "strong."
    Just lmao at “there is no such thing as better evidence except perhaps clear video footage”. You should’ve stopped while you were only slightly behind.
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  11. #71
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    im not a trial attorney and miscinbro probably knows the rules better than i do so he can correct me, but evidence is evidence if admissible. there is no such thing as "better" evidence except perhaps clear video footage. direct evidence and admissible hearsay are equally "strong."
    Very general, but can confirm. Commercial lit attorney. See, generally, Fed. R. Evid. 401; 801; 802.

    Further, most of the time, trials depend on circumstantial evidence rather than direct evidence.
    I offer my opponents a bargain. If they will stop telling lies about us, I will stop telling the truth about them.
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  12. #72
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    Originally Posted by Steemboat View Post
    Very general, but can confirm. Commercial lit attorney. See, generally, Fed. R. Evid. 401; 801; 802.

    Further, most of the time, trials depend on circumstantial evidence rather than direct evidence.
    Not only is some evidence better than other evidence, some hearsay could be better than other hearsay. If the defense has a witness who is a convicted felon and known drug user testifying hearsay evidence and the prosecution has witnesses who is a respected member of society who works with local charities and is a teacher of 20 years testifying hearsay evidence.....which evidence do you think is better??
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  13. #73
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    Originally Posted by jtaylor2010 View Post
    Not only is some evidence better than other evidence, some hearsay could be better than other hearsay. If the defense has a witness who is a convicted felon and known drug user testifying hearsay evidence and the prosecution has witnesses who is a respected member of society who works with local charities and is a teacher of 20 years testifying hearsay evidence.....which evidence do you think is better??
    ah the ol non attorney explaining law stuff to the licensed attorneys who do this stuff for a living

    thank you for your professional-grade advice

    this will come as a shock to you, but in your example the evidence is equal. in general, character differences between witnesses are not admissible and they dont matter. sorry about that!
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    ah the ol non attorney explaining law stuff to the licensed attorneys who do this stuff for a living

    thank you for your professional-grade advice

    this will come as a shock to you, but in your example the evidence is equal. in general, character differences between witnesses are not admissible and they dont matter. sorry about that!
    Lol, just the nature of this forum.

    The worst was the Sandmann/WaPo thread where 90% of the misc so certain that he was going to win a quarter of a billion dollars despite none of them knowing what an Anti-SLAPP statute is. When we pointed out how unlikely this is, there came the immediate “libtard” attacks. Maybe it has nothing to do with our political beliefs...?
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  15. #75
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    Originally Posted by Steemboat View Post
    Lol, just the nature of this forum.

    The worst was the Sandmann/WaPo thread where 90% of the misc so certain that he was going to win a quarter of a billion dollars despite none of them knowing what an Anti-SLAPP statute is. When we pointed out how unlikely this is, there came the immediate “libtard” attacks. Maybe it has nothing to do with our political beliefs...?
    i wrote a 25 page anti-slapp brief in law school on a tabloid's defamatory article about aretha franklin

    re the sandmann case - all i was asking for was a single defamatory statement made by wapo. they couldn't quote a single defamatory thing that wapo even wrote. they were just emotional.

    i think that's what it is - it has everything to do with their political beliefs. I mean look at jtaylor - he's a bonafide moron who's convinced himself he understands evidence law based solely on the testimony of a democrat
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  16. #76
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    ah the ol non attorney explaining law stuff to the licensed attorneys who do this stuff for a living

    thank you for your professional-grade advice

    this will come as a shock to you, but in your example the evidence is equal. in general, character differences between witnesses are not admissible and they dont matter. sorry about that!
    Except any good lawyer would probably be able to bring up the character of the witness if it would help their case.



    So yeah, the evidence may be “equal” in that it counts as evidence but one is certainly better than the other in the eyes of the jury.
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    Originally Posted by AriGhold View Post
    What is hearsay? We have heard from those on the call and those directly involved with the withholding of aid. Is that hearsay?

    The only “hearsay” is what we are forced to assume of the intentions of trump, Gulliani, mulvaney, and all those refusing to testify. If the call and all interactions surrounding it were so perfect, why don’t they testify to end this all? Yet here they are refusing subpoenas and obstructing.
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    Originally Posted by miscinbro View Post
    Anyone who knows the actual law would say “it depends.”
    This is the only correct answer.

    Originally Posted by jtaylor2010 View Post
    Except any good lawyer would probably be able to bring up the character of the witness if it would help their case.



    So yeah, the evidence may be “equal” in that it counts as evidence but one is certainly better than the other in the eyes of the jury.
    And any competent lawyer on the other side would immediately object. What’s your point?

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre

    Please look at Rules 403, 404, 801, and 802. Don’t worry about the url, these aren’t actually written by those liberal brats at Cornell. They’re from the Supreme Court.
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    Originally Posted by Steemboat View Post
    This is the only correct answer.



    And any competent lawyer on the other side would immediately object. What’s your point?

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/rules/fre

    Please look at Rules 403, 404, 801, and 802. Don’t worry about the url, these aren’t actually written by those liberal brats at Cornell. They’re from the Supreme Court.

    But there are ways to tarnish a witnesses’ character and have it stand, correct?
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    Originally Posted by jtaylor2010 View Post
    He didn’t say it’s all bad, he said it’s the weaker option. If you and miscinbro disagree perhaps you can point out an example in which a lawyer would prefer to present hearsay to support his case instead of direct evidence.
    There is a lot to unpack here. Hearsay is defined, legally, as an out of court statement used for the truth of the matter asserted.

    First, understand that in the US hearsay rules only apply when a jury is present - a judge deciding facts can hear whatever he/she wants.

    Second, there are a million hearsay exceptions, it's one of the hardest classes in law school due to this.

    Third, I didn't read the OP question the way you phrased it. It's very possible hearsay is better than a super biased witness, for example.

    But really hearsay is very often the only evidence available - or it can come in and backs up other evidence.
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    Originally Posted by jtaylor2010 View Post
    But there are ways to tarnish a witnesses’ character and have it stand, correct?
    "(a) Character Evidence.

    (1) Prohibited Uses. Evidence of a person’s character or character trait is not admissible to prove that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance with the character or trait."

    Hell, there is even a balancing act for evidence (of any type) where you must balance its probative value v. its prejudicial danger.
    Last edited by miscinbro; 11-15-2019 at 02:55 PM.
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  22. #82
    Registered User sandaltan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by miscinbro View Post
    "(a) Character Evidence.

    (1) Prohibited Uses. Evidence of a person’s character or character trait is not admissible to prove that on a particular occasion the person acted in accordance with the character or trait."

    Hell, there is even a balancing act for evidence (of any type) where you must balance its probative value v. its prejudicial danger.
    but wouldnt it just be easier to say that hearsay is bad evidence, even if its not technically true?
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    but wouldnt it just be easier to say that hearsay is bad evidence, even if its not technically true?
    Just defend Trump via whatever current talking point is being thumped. Nothing easier than that.
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    sometimes

    there are exceptions to the hearsay rule
    Mmmmmmm


    Excited utterance.
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    Originally Posted by ByeAlicia View Post
    Mmmmmmm


    Excited utterance.
    lol yes
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