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  1. #1
    Registered User sunsean's Avatar
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    Higher volume training for us older dudes?

    I've heard that as you get older, training with lighter intensity for more volume can be beneficial as it allows similar gains/hypertrophy but with less stress on your body?

    I'm 39 halfway to 40...after lifting since my 20s, I've got some kinks here and there like anyone. Thinking of adopting this approach a bit more in the near future. Sometimes pushing those super heavy weights for 3-5 reps is just SO taxing I feel like I need a week to recover.

    Anyone else adopt higher volume training with good results, e.g. it didn't make you lose a ton of mass?

    Or is the answer to keep the intensity up but take more rest days?

    Don't get me wrong, I actually feel great overall, fit and healthy, but I do notice that I don't "bounce" back as quickly if that makes sense...
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  2. #2
    Humble Megalomaniac ElrondHubbard's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sunsean View Post
    I've heard that as you get older, training with lighter intensity for more volume can be beneficial as it allows similar gains/hypertrophy but with less stress on your body?

    I'm 39 halfway to 40...after lifting since my 20s, I've got some kinks here and there like anyone. Thinking of adopting this approach a bit more in the near future. Sometimes pushing those super heavy weights for 3-5 reps is just SO taxing I feel like I need a week to recover.

    Anyone else adopt higher volume training with good results, e.g. it didn't make you lose a ton of mass?

    Or is the answer to keep the intensity up but take more rest days?

    Don't get me wrong, I actually feel great overall, fit and healthy, but I do notice that I don't "bounce" back as quickly if that makes sense...
    Changing volumes and intensities around could be an approach to periodization. If you've done nothing but super heavy lifts your whole career, you might benefit from a switch to volume-based training.
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  3. #3
    Registered User sunsean's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    Changing volumes and intensities around could be an approach to periodization. If you've done nothing but super heavy lifts your whole career, you might benefit from a switch to volume-based training.
    Yeah I think I'm going to try a HLM routine, where you have a heavy day, light day, and medium day.

    I typically lift as heavy as I can for most lifts because I'm a simpleton and progressive overload is easier to track when you just deal with weight.
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    Originally Posted by sunsean View Post
    Yeah I think I'm going to try a HLM routine, where you have a heavy day, light day, and medium day.

    I typically lift as heavy as I can for most lifts because I'm a simpleton and progressive overload is easier to track when you just deal with weight.
    I love daily undulating periodisation. After some research, you might decide to put 'heavy' in between light and medium. There's a ton of research on DUP, especially by a guy named Zourdos.
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    Originally Posted by sunsean View Post
    I've heard that as you get older, training with lighter intensity for more volume can be beneficial as it allows similar gains/hypertrophy but with less stress on your body?

    I'm 39 halfway to 40...after lifting since my 20s, I've got some kinks here and there like anyone. Thinking of adopting this approach a bit more in the near future. Sometimes pushing those super heavy weights for 3-5 reps is just SO taxing I feel like I need a week to recover.

    Anyone else adopt higher volume training with good results, e.g. it didn't make you lose a ton of mass?

    Or is the answer to keep the intensity up but take more rest days?

    Don't get me wrong, I actually feel great overall, fit and healthy, but I do notice that I don't "bounce" back as quickly if that makes sense...
    I switched to a routine that mixes heavy days with iso hold and lighter forced reps and I really like the variety. I feel pretty good usually.
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    I did sheiko 29 and 32 years ago. Less intensity and ridiculous volume. 15 sets of deadlifts for example. Also have done german volume training. Gained size on gvt but got weaker. On sheiko got bigger and stronger and developed 3 different shoulder issues.

    Lately I start with a core compound like squat. Ramp up to a few work sets of 8rpe doubles or singles, then do one or two sets of amrap at 10+ reps. Then I do two sets of accessories for 5-10 depending on the mood. And concludes that body part. Since I do anterior /posterior, I'll follow that premise twice in a session and I do anterior twice weekly, and posterior twice as well. The weekly volume is decent and has been a good mix of higher and lower rep ranges. Since I stay relatively lean year round, it keeps me healthy and I can, albeit slowly, progress on totals.

    Just what works for me lately.
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  8. #8
    Registered User KidFreeze's Avatar
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    I'm more about frequency now.
    Last edited by KidFreeze; 11-14-2019 at 07:01 AM.
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  9. #9
    SRSGRL'S #1 FAN SR800's Avatar
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    The sooner you switch from max heavy to some other form of muscle adaptation strategy the better off you will be as you get into your 50s and beyond.
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    Registered User KidFreeze's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SR800 View Post
    The sooner you switch from max heavy to some other form of muscle adaptation strategy the better off you will be as you get into your 50s and beyond.
    Yes!
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  11. #11
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Doing something is always better than doing nothing.

    Absolutely nothing wrong with dropping intensity and increasing volume.

    And nothing wring with increasing intensity, either.

    It depends on the individual and the individual's goals. And as we age, it will also depend on how 'broken' we are.

    As of me, I do not max out as often as I did when I was younger. I have been focusing on quality lifts at doubles and triples based on the Prilepin chart.
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  12. #12
    Registered User Oleg1975K's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by drudixon View Post
    I did sheiko 29 and 32 years ago. Less intensity and ridiculous volume. 15 sets of deadlifts for example. Also have done german volume training. Gained size on gvt but got weaker. On sheiko got bigger and stronger and developed 3 different shoulder issues.

    Lately I start with a core compound like squat. Ramp up to a few work sets of 8rpe doubles or singles, then do one or two sets of amrap at 10+ reps. Then I do two sets of accessories for 5-10 depending on the mood. And concludes that body part. Since I do anterior /posterior, I'll follow that premise twice in a session and I do anterior twice weekly, and posterior twice as well. The weekly volume is decent and has been a good mix of higher and lower rep ranges. Since I stay relatively lean year round, it keeps me healthy and I can, albeit slowly, progress on totals.

    Just what works for me lately.
    Did you train using the Sheiko method 32 years ago?
    Are you a weightlifter from Kazakhstan or what?
    bench press 165 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    overhead press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps
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  13. #13
    Bored drudixon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Oleg1975K View Post
    Did you train using the Sheiko method 32 years ago?
    Are you a weightlifter from Kazakhstan or what?
    Sheikos programs are numbered not named.
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by drudixon View Post
    Sheikos programs are numbered not named.
    30 years ago Sheiko did not train powerlifters at all, he trained weightlifters. His career as a trainer in powerlifting began in 1990. This is according to his official biography. And he published standard plans later, in the 2000s. That's why I ask ...
    bench press 165 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    overhead press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps
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  15. #15
    Chihuahua in the rain Corbets's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Oleg1975K View Post
    30 years ago Sheiko did not train powerlifters at all, he trained weightlifters. His career as a trainer in powerlifting began in 1990. This is according to his official biography. And he published standard plans later, in the 2000s. That's why I ask ...
    He’s not saying he did it 32 years ago. He’s saying that years ago he did sheiko 32.
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    Registered User Oleg1975K's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Corbets View Post
    He’s not saying he did it 32 years ago. He’s saying that years ago he did sheiko 32.
    Sheiko "32"?
    Interesting numbering ...
    Some old-timers say that Sheiko does not write standard plans at all, while others sound the names of programs unusual for Russian hearing. )))
    bench press 165 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    overhead press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
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    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps
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  17. #17
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    I did sheiko 350 years ago.

    And back then it was pronounced "TREE FIDDY."
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    Originally Posted by drudixon View Post
    I did sheiko 29 and 32 years ago... ...
    B- Slovenly punctuation. Add a comma to avoid ambiguity. It's not that you have let us down, rather you have let yourself down drudixon. Must try harder in class!
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  19. #19
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    Originally Posted by norwichgrad View Post
    i did sheiko 350 years ago.

    And back then it was pronounced "tree fiddy."
    lmao
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  20. #20
    Registered User sunsean's Avatar
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    Just came back and saw this thread - thanks for all the tips and insight guys. Sounds like I'm going to play around with periodization tactics moving forward...some variation of the heavy/light/medium protocol will work I think.
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    Originally Posted by Marius_Ursus View Post
    lmao
    Very funny, ****ing ...
    There are no numbering programs in Sheiko's original books.
    There are plans written for different levels of athletes:
    beginners (начинающие)
    secondary (разрядники)
    advanced (КМС-МС)
    the elite (МС-МСМК)
    This is for you, English speakers, translated them like that (with numbering).
    Find the primary sources before including categorical.
    I never blow air just like that, man.
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    bench press 165 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    overhead press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps
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  22. #22
    Registered User Oleg1975K's Avatar
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    With regards to Sheiko ... This is a super- trainer, no doubt. But Russian coaches and athletes rightly criticized him for too simple a transfer of the Medvedev-Plukfelder system to powerlifting. And he, by the way, adjusted these plans for mass athletes a little later. Weightlifting is a speed-power sport, powerlifting is a manifestation of absolute strength.
    In general, we have many other options for performing the old school of weightlifting, for the manifestation of the maximums in powerlifting, not known to english and american athletes. Some of them are publicly available (the so-called Verkhoshansky peak (in fact, from the first USSR champion in heavy weight lifting Valery Shchedrin) or the Russian Medvedev cycle (in fact, Chernyak’s plan) and others. Some “secrets” are kept inside there are other coaches at my school. I personally knew about 20-25 years ago with a coach who trained in the same youth team with Vasily Alekseev, he also wrote these plans to my friends in %%. I really wanted to find them, but the person is no longer there, and the students lost these old records. Too bad, of course ...
    Last edited by Oleg1975K; 11-15-2019 at 02:01 PM.
    bench press 165 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    overhead press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps
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  23. #23
    Bored drudixon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Oleg1975K View Post
    With regards to Sheiko ... This is a super- trainer, no doubt. But Russian coaches and athletes rightly criticized him for too simple a transfer of the Medvedev-Plukfelder system to powerlifting. And he, by the way, adjusted these plans for mass athletes a little later. Weightlifting is a speed-power sport, powerlifting is a manifestation of absolute strength.
    In general, we have many other options for performing the old school of weightlifting, for the manifestation of the maximums in powerlifting, not known to english and american athletes. Some of them are publicly available (the so-called Verkhoshansky peak (in fact, from the first USSR champion in heavy weight lifting Valery Shchedrin) or the Russian Medvedev cycle (in fact, Chernyak’s plan) and others. Some “secrets” are kept inside there are other coaches at my school. I personally knew about 20-25 years ago with a coach who trained in the same youth team with Vasily Alekseev, he also wrote these plans to my friends in %%. I really wanted to find them, but the person is no longer there, and the students lost these old records. Too bad, of course ...
    The history and theory is great, but to quote klokov, these training methods are not for the traditional American athlete. Average genetics, jobs and families aren't conducive to Russian elite training, a lesson I learned the hard way as my body fell apart.
    B: 285
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  24. #24
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    Originally Posted by OldFartTom View Post
    B- Slovenly punctuation. Add a comma to avoid ambiguity. It's not that you have let us down, rather you have let yourself down drudixon. Must try harder in class!
    BRB doing 20 sets of bench press as punishment.
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  25. #25
    I love my power hour MrCarrot's Avatar
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    I've always been into volume, in my teens there was no Internet so I just followed the pro routines and bro splits in Muscle & Fitness, Muscle Mag and Flex.

    Now I know better, but when I decrease volume I feel like I'm not doing enough.

    I've had a few niggling injuries this year and I don't know if it's related to age, or trying to combine too much volume together with too much intensity. Recently I've been forcing myself to do less volume to see what difference it makes.

    I may well decrease the weight and increase the volume depending on results. Sometimes I think it's good to mix these things up just to keep your workouts fresh.
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    Registered User drkelly74's Avatar
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    Whenever I workout in the 5 and below rep range, I end up aggravating something within a 1-2 months of using that rep range. I primarily stay in the 8-12 rep range now. I've been lifting fairly seriously for about 6 yrs now.
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  27. #27
    Registered User Garage Rat's Avatar
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    IMO is keeping the intensity up on what ever style training you choose.
    Even as an older lifter you need intensity on every set past warmups.
    And i agree more rest days and less days of intense training.
    On those off days though some form of low intensity active recovery should still be in your training.
    Things like walking,biking,swimming at a low intensity steady state(LISS) pace to help recovery from your intense training program.
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  28. #28
    Weak and foolish OldFartTom's Avatar
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    FWIW... The general theory is that as you get older recovering from volume gets harder at a faster rate than recovering from intensity.. according to Dr Sullivan anyway (The barbell prescription).

    So it makes me wonder, do we need more volume due to increasing biological age, or is it instead the increasing training age?
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    Then other details will start to slot themselves into place.
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  29. #29
    Registered User Oleg1975K's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OldFartTom View Post
    FWIW... The general theory is that as you get older recovering from volume gets harder at a faster rate than recovering from intensity.. according to Dr Sullivan anyway (The barbell prescription).

    So it makes me wonder, do we need more volume due to increasing biological age, or is it instead the increasing training age?
    Volume and intensity are two sides of the same coin. By reducing the intensity, you can increase the volume and vice versa. We should just be able to use these tools.
    bench press 165 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    overhead press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps
    Reply With Quote

  30. #30
    Registered User Oleg1975K's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by drudixon View Post
    The history and theory is great, but to quote klokov, these training methods are not for the traditional American athlete. Average genetics, jobs and families aren't conducive to Russian elite training, a lesson I learned the hard way as my body fell apart.
    Where can I see the electronic version of Sheiko's books in English?
    bench press 165 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    overhead press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps
    Reply With Quote

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