The Truth About Kettlebells

[LWW]

I've dabbled with kettlebells here and there, but not really at all in the last 10 years, however from what I know about what they can do from experience and what I've been seeing lately, most folks who have been on serious kettlebell routine only, meaning "strongfirst" certified type instructor classes (which I know very little about) for at least a year are first time dead lifting around 300lb.

These are average build people and they aren't using straps or wearing belts first time dead lifting, they can get to 405 very fast, some hit high 300's first time dead-lifting.

After some deadlift coaching and yes sometimes belts are used, some of the ladies are in the 350-365lb dead lift range and this is around 3-years training, (powerlifting specific BUT Kettlebell foundation) one lady I know is over 40 too.

Kettlebells strengthen the core and grip and carry over very well in dead lifts and a little for squats.

[keyboardworkout]

The KB swing is an excellent exercise that everyone should be doing. It carries over to just about everything.

All Pavel does currently is swings and dips.

[LWW]

The KB swing is an excellent exercise that everyone should be doing. It carries over to just about everything.

All Pavel does currently is swings and dips.

I did a 5 minute snatch test in the "Tactical Strength Challenge" TSC many, many years ago, which is Max Deadlift, Max pullups and 5 minute snatch test.

At that time I was also competing in Strongman and my whole goal was to carry a 700+ yoke under 200# with no drops and no belt, I accomplished that in the same year as the TSC.

I didn't continue any kettlebell work, but did continue heavy yoke and farmers carries (also carried 300 an arm farmers), the yoke work built a strong core for me, but also trashed my back and my dead lift suffered, my back was over cooked big-time. Then my life just became bizarre and I hit some rough roads.

I may incorporate some KB stuff, I think it's real good for the back, my problem has been, I squat,squat,squat, instead I should swing,swing,swing, then squat.

El was right, my advice usually stinks, but I think this thread is finally good.

[OldFartTom]

Some of your advice is terrible (and so is a proportion of mine) but even when I completely disagree with some of your comments I do like the hard-work-first ethic, it's a nice antidote to the seduction of just disappearing into "but Brad Schoenfeld says xyz ... in a new meta-analysis of 15 previous meta-analyses " or training only by Excel spreadsheet - (neither of those two things are bad, but this forum can over egg the pudding sometimes)

Kettle bell are top of the list of things I'm nearly doing but not quite getting the time. Dan John has written some pretty complimentary stuff about them (and heavy and/or explosive swings). A few years ago I had a bit of coaching (not some random-shouty PT) and I was given two very small KBs and told hold them upside down ("bottoms up press") now press then up and down, that was a humbling experience.

[NorwichGrad]

Absolutely!!

KB's are also an excellent way to teach someone new how to snatch and clean. No other movement can teach how to pop the hips like KBs do.

[supramax]

Some of your advice is terrible (and so is a proportion of mine) but even when I completely disagree with some of your comments I do like the hard-work-first ethic, it's a nice antidote to the seduction of just disappearing into "but Brad Schoenfeld says xyz ... in a new meta-analysis of 15 previous meta-analyses " or training only by Excel spreadsheet - (neither of those two things are bad, but this forum can over egg the pudding sometimes)

Kettle bell are top of the list of things I'm nearly doing but not quite getting the time. Dan John has written some pretty complimentary stuff about them (and heavy and/or explosive swings). A few years ago I had a bit of coaching (not some random-shouty PT) and I was given two very small KBs and told hold them upside down ("bottoms up press") now press then up and down, that was a humbling experience.

As keyboard said, the swing carries over to just about everything and I'd say specifically to the deadlift. Program it in as a deadlift warm up and it's likely that you'll start including it in every workout. It's the only specific exercise that's in every one of my weightlifting workouts.

[LWW]

As keyboard said, the swing carries over to just about everything and I'd say specifically to the deadlift. Program it in as a deadlift warm up and it's likely that you'll start including it in every workout. It's the only specific exercise that's in every one of my weightlifting workouts.

I'll be starting with a 10 rep EMOM for 10 minutes before my normal squat/dead-lift. I'll begin with 20-24kg swings (one-arm) 1st workout and take it from there.

[supramax]

I'll be starting with a 10 rep EMOM for 10 minutes before my normal squat/dead-lift. I'll begin with 20-24kg swings (one-arm) 1st workout and take it from there.

I guess if you've mastered the two hand and alternating hands techniques, it would be okay. Have you? I save the lighter one hand swings for the workouts that don't include a deadlift.

[LWW]

I guess if you've mastered the two hand and alternating hands techniques, it would be okay. Have you? I save the lighter one hand swings for the workouts that don't include a deadlift.

Yes, way back, 20-24kg are mastered in the swing. I can do one-arm swings with over 32kg but won't begin my first day with that. I used to snatch 32kg for 10-12reps now my form broke on those snatches and wrists got bruised-up.

The folks at the place I train at are Strong-first certified instructors, so they'll get on me, if I'm off.

[adamgentile]

Turkish bell get-ups, they will humble you.

[OldFartTom]

As keyboard said, the swing carries over to just about everything and I'd say specifically to the deadlift. Program it in as a deadlift warm up and it's likely that you'll start including it in every workout. It's the only specific exercise that's in every one of my weightlifting workouts.

For whatever reason (my stupidity) I'd not looked at it that way, always been thinking of some swings in some time dedicated for that, and doing a load of fast warm up DLs as part of my DL. But obvious now you mention it... it'd be a good way to warm up the DL and not take any extra time. I have DL tomorrow morning. I'll do it. Thanks

[OldFartTom]

Yes, way back, 20-24kg are mastered in the swing. I can do one-arm swings with over 32kg but won't begin my first day with that. I used to snatch 32kg for 10-12reps now my form broke on those snatches and wrists got bruised-up.

The folks at the place I train at are Strong-first certified instructors, so they'll get on me, if I'm off.

He looks like he could kick most people's ass into the next county if they persistently get the form wrong http://artandstrength.com/ you better do as you're told!

[keyboardworkout]

My two hand swing workout/warmup

KB equal to 1/4 of your body weight

20 swings on the minute for 5 minutes. Ends up about 35 seconds of work and 25 seconds of rest per minute.

[supramax]

For whatever reason (my stupidity) I'd not looked at it that way, always been thinking of some swings in some time dedicated for that, and doing a load of fast warm up DLs as part of my DL. But obvious now you mention it... it'd be a good way to warm up the DL and not take any extra time. I have DL tomorrow morning. I'll do it. Thanks

You're welcome.

My concern is energy expenditure and there are very few exercises that give a bigger bang for your energy buck than hard style kettlebell swings. I pair weight pyramiding sets with ab wheel rollouts and follow them with deads or loaded carries.

Tsatsouline says that swings and deadlifts go together like vodka and pickles.

[LWW]

Some of your advice is terrible (and so is a proportion of mine) but even when I completely disagree with some of your comments I do like the hard-work-first ethic.

Are cheat curls terrible? If you know how to swing a kettlebell, then cheat curls ain't much different. Just say'in.

....well, maybe some difference, but I was just referring to hip thrust, that's how I do "cheat curls". Obviously you don't lean back on KB swings, and you don't have to on cheat curls, but it can happen when doing reps on cheat curls.

[GrouchyUSMC]

Big fan of kettlebells, we have several in the house for at-home training when time is short. My wife was a serious kettlebell sport competitor for a while (I did one competition and it was miserable), but we both frequently use kettlebells in our training. My currnet programming is using barbell work for strength then metabolic conditioning using a mixture of kettlebells and calisthenics (snatches and burpees are a killer combo).

[jstarcarr]

I do kettlebell toss over rugby posts, love it for explosive power.

[keyboardworkout]

My wife was a serious kettlebell sport competitor for a while (I did one competition and it was miserable), but we both frequently use kettlebells in our training.

Crazy stuff. Don't know how these tiny girls do this.

[GrouchyUSMC]

Crazy stuff. Don't know how these tiny girls do this.

It's miserable. I did a 10 minute competition set of double jerks with 2x20kg kettlebells and I wanted to die. My wife was very close to Master of Sport in her federation with the one arm long cycle, she was using the 24kg.

[supramax]

It's a crime to call what they're doing, 'a snatch'.

[Garage Rat]

Kettelbells are a good tool and can be a stand alone tool for some if you want it to be.
I was an RKC instructor up until there was split and strong first came into existence.
I certified in 2006 and stayed with them until about 2012.
One of the issues with KB training is the learning curve which IMO is much harder than most barbell work.
You can get hurt doing swings if your not proficient with swings or other ballistic movements.
One reason they help deadlifting is KB ballistic movements work the posterior chain really hard.
If you do the movements right your glutes and hamstring get a good hit.
The KB swing is much like a cable pull through but much more ballistic and natural because your not locked in to the cable groove.
It certainly can be a good assistance movement for the DL but not so much a stand alone movement as there are other good assistance movements that can be done as well.
And there are many types of kettle bell lifting,hardstyle,girevoy sport as in the videos above and cross fit has their own style.
I will mention a snatch with a kettle bell is different and should not be compared with barbell snatches.
Each is very technical and if you ever do KB snatches hard style i think you'd give them some respect.

[LWW]

[QUOTE=Garage Rat;1596633311
I will mention a snatch with a kettle bell is different and should not be compared with barbell snatches.
Each is very technical and if you ever do KB snatches hard style i think you'd give them some respect.[/QUOTE]


I didn't know you where once an RKC instructor, thanks for the info.

Yes, and even trying those lifts with a dumbell is not the same, the kettlebell with challenge one's stability and the handles are thicker, like I said in a previous post, they do great work for the grip.

[MajorTendonitis]

I gave up using KB after the owner kicked me out of the gym for scratching the floor with them

[LWW]

It's miserable. I did a 10 minute competition set of double jerks with 2x20kg kettlebells and I wanted to die. My wife was very close to Master of Sport in her federation with the one arm long cycle, she was using the 24kg.

Hi Grouchy,

I concur, I did the 5 minute snatch test, all I was interested in was the max deadlift at the TSC.

I was a plate-loader for the gym hosting one last year, the top dead-lift was performed by one of the smaller guys at 550lb, he came back to the next one and hit 555lb, it was in the middle of summer and he was wearing a big hoody sweat shirt the whole time. I was sweating bullets just loading plates, no air-conditioning in the place.

[supramax]

'Snatch', my ass! It's a momentum based arm assisted American swing without the hip hinge. The fact that little girls can do hundreds of reps, says it all.

The swing itself is a simple to learn movement progression that people try to complicate so they can make money off of gullible people.

[Garage Rat]

I would have to disagree with you supramax.
At least a "hard style snatch" is hip generated projecting that force up to a lockout.
Have you ever tried to snatch a 48 kilo KB?
The arm just guides the path it does very little pulling on it's own.
The swing is easy or hard for someone to learn just as some people will be able to learn barbell movements easier than others.
The girevoy sport in the videos above is a different kind of KB work in that being efficient and trying to get as many reps the easiest way possible in the time perimeter.
An economy in motion with specific technique.
The KB is just another tool.
Wether you choose to like or not is up to you.
I personally like having it in my tool box as an option.
There are many other movements that great to integrate with regular bodybuilding that i have personally used and modified for myself.
Each his own though.

[supramax]

The only reason it's called a kettlebell 'snatch' is because it's one continuous movement. My description is more accurate.
I just watched some videos of so called 'hard style' kettlebell snatches and like the momentum based stuff, the ass moves backwards as more of a spinal flexion counterbalance rather than for loading the hamstrings and glutes. I love the kettlebell for swings and sometimes for loaded carries, but I like my snatches close to the body.

[Garage Rat]

Respectfully i would say your knowledge of the kettle bell is limited then.
There are types of snatches and yes the KB snatch is different than a barbell as i already mentioned.
If the momentum thing is whats bothering you,you easily do either dead hang or dead stop KB snatches from the floor.
No momentum there.
Again ill ask have you ever snatched a 48 kilo kettlebell?
If you haven't then i know why you think the way you do.

[supramax]

I swing a 105 lb kettlebell on a regular basis, but I don't do the momentum based arm assisted American overhead swings that you call snatches. I'm not bothered by momentum based stuff, I just think it's a waste of time. Knowledge of the kettlebell, really?

[LWW]

'Snatch', my ass! It's a momentum based arm assisted American swing without the hip hinge. The fact that little girls can do hundreds of reps, says it all.

Technically it's a "powersnatch", but "arm assisted" doesn't do you any justice to say "little girls, doing hundreds of reps" the technical skill of a snatch/powersnatch shouldn't involve the arms at all, usually big overly muscle strongman do "arm assisted" Olympic style moves.