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    Could Private Charity Replace Social Programs?

    Would be curious to hear some opinions on this topic and the reasoning behind said opinion.
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    no. never once has the charitable whims of wealthy people adequately provided proper social infrastructure for the poor. there did used to be fraternal societies in the US which were a kind of private insurance type deal which people joined to hopefully protect them from destitution - but they were regionally sparse, usually only covered men, provided substandard healthcare benefits, barred people who were already in poor health, and were mostly limited to those under 45.

    the inadequacy of both charity and these kind of private insurance is what lead to the New Deals.
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    Americans gave $427.71 billion in 2018. This reflects a 0.7% increase from 2017.

    How much more money will it take?

    Approximately 77 million Americans—30% of the adult population—volunteer their time, talents, and energy to making a difference.

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    No because charity is not as reliable or sustainable as an effectively implemented social program. Was charity reliable during the Great Depression? That one instance ushered in an era of government regulations and support.

    Republicans and conservatives like the idea of charity because it fits in with their ideology of self responsibility while cutting government and lowering tax.
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    No because charity is not as reliable or sustainable as an effectively implemented social program. Was charity reliable during the Great Depression? That one instance ushered in an era of government regulations and support.

    Republicans and conservatives like the idea of charity because it fits in with their ideology of self responsibility while cutting government and lowering tax.
    You talk about self responsibility like it's a bad thing.
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    You talk about self responsibility like it's a bad thing.
    It is to liberals. They have none. Everything bad that happens is always somebody else's fault.
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    Top 10 Obsolete Government Programs

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    Originally Posted by chaunce54 View Post
    It is to liberals. They have none. Everything bad that happens is always somebody else's fault.
    We need a social program for people making **** decisions in their life....
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    I actually think it could work. Charities managed locally would be far more efficient and Americans are very giving to those in need.

    Of course there would have to be a significant reduction in taxes and the funds allocated to approved charities (state approved. Feds can stay the FO) would remain as tax deductions.

    Personally, I give to animal charities much more than human charities. Why? The govt has assumed the role.
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    No because charity is not as reliable or sustainable as an effectively implemented social program. Was charity reliable during the Great Depression? That one instance ushered in an era of government regulations and support.

    Republicans and conservatives like the idea of charity because it fits in with their ideology of self responsibility while cutting government and lowering tax.
    Since we waged the war on poverty our govt has accomplished little more than spending trillions of dollars and making the problem worse. I donate to charities knowing that my dollars are much more effective going that route than the dollars I pay in taxes. I’m not saying we could or should ever get rid of all social programs, but there is a ton of waste in our system that should be eliminated.
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    Originally Posted by jtaylor2010 View Post
    Since we waged the war on poverty our govt has accomplished little more than spending trillions of dollars and making the problem worse. I donate to charities knowing that my dollars are much more effective going that route than the dollars I pay in taxes. I’m not saying we could or should ever get rid of all social programs, but there is a ton of waste in our system that should be eliminated.
    How about the war on drugs?
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    Originally Posted by SicilianPower View Post
    Would be curious to hear some opinions on this topic and the reasoning behind said opinion.
    Prior to welfare, when poverty was on its way to becoming a thing of the past, blacks who managed to work their way into the middle class established fraternal organizations that would provide the poor with job training, health care, food, etc
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    Our social programs are entangled with national production efforts, so no...

    We collect tax to subsidize farming, so there's enough food for all of our cities, exports, and that entails leftovers for the poor which we distribute through food stamps.

    We manipulate the tax code in lots of ways for social programs of all kinds...like writing off mortgage interest.
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    Originally Posted by Chowboy View Post
    I actually think it could work. Charities managed locally would be far more efficient and Americans are very giving to those in need.

    Of course there would have to be a significant reduction in taxes and the funds allocated to approved charities (state approved. Feds can stay the FO) would remain as tax deductions.

    Personally, I give to animal charities much more than human charities. Why? The govt has assumed the role.
    They didn't work, hence why social programs became a thing.
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    Originally Posted by jtaylor2010 View Post
    Since we waged the war on poverty our govt has accomplished little more than spending trillions of dollars and making the problem worse. I donate to charities knowing that my dollars are much more effective going that route than the dollars I pay in taxes. I’m not saying we could or should ever get rid of all social programs, but there is a ton of waste in our system that should be eliminated.
    The welfare system does need a fair amount of reform, but to say that there hasn't been considerable progress since their implementation is flatly wrong.

    When you measure poverty properly (ie. not the official poverty line which is a very inaccurate 60 year old metric based on food consumption in 1955, updated based on inflation) using the Census Bureau's Supplemental Poverty Measure, it has decreased a lot even since LBJ's War on Poverty initiative. If you go further back to the implementation of the New Deal (which is where federal programs to combat poverty really started) then there has been a huge decline in poverty.

    There is good evidence for the effectiveness of programs like SNAP in reducing food insecurity, reducing health related expenses, massively improving children's performance at school, etc etc.

    Worldwide there's a pretty clear trend between public spending on social programs and lower poverty:

    https://www.epi.org/publication/coun...child-poverty/
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    Originally Posted by SicilianPower View Post
    Would be curious to hear some opinions on this topic and the reasoning behind said opinion.
    No, look at every country that's third world. It clearly doesn't work.
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    The welfare system does need a fair amount of reform, but to say that there hasn't been considerable progress since their implementation is flatly wrong.

    When you measure poverty properly (ie. not the official poverty line which is a very inaccurate 60 year old metric based on food consumption in 1955, updated based on inflation) using the Census Bureau's Supplemental Poverty Measure, it has decreased a lot even since LBJ's War on Poverty initiative. If you go further back to the implementation of the New Deal (which is where federal programs to combat poverty really started) then there has been a huge decline in poverty.

    There is good evidence for the effectiveness of programs like SNAP in reducing food insecurity, reducing health related expenses, massively improving children's performance at school, etc etc.

    Worldwide there's a pretty clear trend between public spending on social programs and lower poverty:

    https://www.epi.org/publication/coun...child-poverty/
    Can someone be considered in poverty if the have > $100 sneakers and the latest iPhone?
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    Originally Posted by ImBunky View Post
    Can someone be considered in poverty if the have > $100 sneakers and the latest iPhone?


    The majority of poor people buy cheap android phones.
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    You talk about self responsibility like it's a bad thing.
    No I actually don't. It's you who has the emotional reaction and get's defensive. Self responsibility is one of the cornerstone's of conservatism and it's why the right prefer charity over being taxed. The problem is charity isn't sustainable or dependable to provide people with things they need like food stamps, social security and welfare.
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    No I actually don't. It's you who has the emotional reaction and get's defensive. Self responsibility is one of the cornerstone's of conservatism and it's why the right prefer charity over being taxed. The problem is charity isn't sustainable or dependable to provide people with things they need like food stamps, social security and welfare.
    What did people do before food stamps, welfare, and social security?

    Also, I used to work at a grocery store as a teenager, explain why everyone on food stamps attempts to buy booze with them?
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    What did people do before food stamps, welfare, and social security?

    Also, I used to work at a grocery store as a teenager, explain why everyone on food stamps attempts to buy booze with them?
    They died, and why do you always assume that your experience is the way the entire country is?
    Maybe you just had chitty life experiences.
    Myopic much?
    sums it up a thread will start off promising and then turn into name calling..
    The easiest way to tell when an argument has no merit is when the protagonist mixes in some personal insults.
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  22. #22
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    What did people do before food stamps, welfare, and social security?

    Also, I used to work at a grocery store as a teenager, explain why everyone on food stamps attempts to buy booze with them?
    They died.
    "So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart. Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours. Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people. . . . Always give a word or a sign of salute when meeting or passing a friend, even a stranger, when in a lonely place." -Tecumseh
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post


    The majority of poor people buy cheap android phones.
    Yes or No question.
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    Originally Posted by ImBunky View Post
    Yes or No question.
    You first have to show us how many people under the poverty line own the latest iPhone. I'll wait.
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    What did people do before food stamps, welfare, and social security?

    Also, I used to work at a grocery store as a teenager, explain why everyone on food stamps attempts to buy booze with them?
    https://www.cbpp.org/research/snap-i...-and-efficient

    https://www.cbpp.org/research/food-a...d-on-the-table

    Your worthless life experiences =/= data.
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    You first have to show us how many people under the poverty line own the latest iPhone. I'll wait.
    Don't have show anything. I asked can you be considered under poverty level if, didn't say anything about number. So answer the question.
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    Originally Posted by ImBunky View Post
    Don't have show anything. I asked can you be considered under poverty level if, didn't say anything about number. So answer the question.
    Technically yes, it is possible. Not likely, as someone on that low an income would have to forgo essential things like food and clothing in order to afford the latest iPhone every year. But of course it's possible - poverty isn't measured in iPhones.

    Now can you show us some data on these people under the poverty line who own the latest iPhone?
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    Thats the way it used to be so yes it could.

    We had vastly fewer social problems before government got involved.
    "To be a warrior is not a simple matter of wishing to be one. It is rather an endless struggle that will go on to the very last moment of our lives. Nobody is born a warrior, in exactly the same way that nobody is born an average man. We make ourselves into one or the other."-- Carlos Castaneda
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    Technically yes, it is possible. Not likely, as someone on that low an income would have to forgo essential things like food and clothing in order to afford the latest iPhone every year. But of course it's possible - poverty isn't measured in iPhones.

    Now can you show us some data on these people under the poverty line who own the latest iPhone?
    They also put the new shoes on credit cards they aren't going to pay off any time soon. It's not like they cut back on lobster and Ribeyes for a couple weeks to afford new shoes.


    Originally Posted by crupiea View Post
    Thats the way it used to be so yes it could.

    We had vastly fewer social problems before government got involved.
    You are one of the silliest posters here, man.
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    No because charity is not as reliable or sustainable as an effectively implemented social program. Was charity reliable during the Great Depression? That one instance ushered in an era of government regulations and support.

    Republicans and conservatives like the idea of charity because it fits in with their ideology of self responsibility while cutting government and lowering tax.
    Poverty was declining before government got involved in welfare, then it stopped declining.

    Great Depression was caused by government. (Inflation of the money supply in 20s)

    Americans are the most charitable, libertarians are statistically most charitable, liberals the least.

    Ron Paul worked for $3 per hour at a charity hospital after his regular job. Paid the bills for poor blacks too, but of course he is racist just like Orange Man Bad, because CNN said so! Now these charity hospitals are closing and replaced by government crap hospitals with waiting lines and terrible service.

    More importantly it doesn’t matter wether charity works better or worse. Because theft is wrong. And we should promote getting off your ass and getting a job, not waiting for a government check of stolen tax money from working people.
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