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    Question Generally does muscle build faster than muscle loss?

    If on a cut there is insufficient protein (for example during any total fast there is no protein at all) how does the muscle loss compare with how quickly new muscle can be built during bulks (especially during beginner gainz)? Is it about the same? Or does muscle get built faster during gains than it's lost during cuts with insufficient protein? Slower?

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    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    If on a cut there is insufficient protein (for example during any total fast there is no protein at all) how does the muscle loss compare with how quickly new muscle can be built during bulks (especially during beginner gainz)? Is it about the same? Or does muscle get built faster during gains than it's lost during cuts with insufficient protein? Slower?
    depends on a number of factors. But in general, in healthy adult men with adequate protein intake and resistance exercise. There is little to no muscle loss during a cut. The exception to this is in sub 10% bf individuals. But even dedicated natural bodybuilders can maintain muscle mass cutting all the way to 6-7%.
    160 lbs and jacked is about as impressive as D cups on a 300lb woman

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    Originally Posted by PurmaBulker1984 View Post
    depends on a number of factors. But in general, in healthy adult men with adequate protein intake and resistance exercise. There is little to no muscle loss during a cut. The exception to this is in sub 10% bf individuals. But even dedicated natural bodybuilders can maintain muscle mass cutting all the way to 6-7%.
    This is a fantasy. In fact, no matter how you exercise properly and no matter how much protein you eat, muscle loss in weight loss will be present. Even on the AAS course. The only question is to minimize the process.
    bench press 165 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    overhead press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps

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    Registered User peterm28's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PurmaBulker1984 View Post
    depends on a number of factors. But in general, in healthy adult men with adequate protein intake and resistance exercise. There is little to no muscle loss during a cut. The exception to this is in sub 10% bf individuals. But even dedicated natural bodybuilders can maintain muscle mass cutting all the way to 6-7%.
    How about with insufficient protein intake? (I assume the body does autophagy during times like that? So we are comparing the muscle loss from autophagy (such as during a total fast.)

    Still, I also find your answer extremely useful.

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    Originally Posted by Oleg1975K View Post
    This is a fantasy. In fact, no matter how you exercise properly and no matter how much protein you eat, muscle loss in weight loss will be present. Even on the AAS course. The only question is to minimize the process.
    You are dumb...

    You're AAS comment is even dumber...

    How do you do 165kg x1, 125kg x 13 and only 100kg x 8. Oh because your dumb...

    Don't listen to him. Muscle loss is caused by a negative protein synthesis/protein breakdown ratio. Has nothing to do with caloric expenditure. They are only interrelated when there is either not enough dietary protein available or when body fat is so low that hormonal balances are wrecked and PS is compromised.

    Is it possible to make new muscle while cutting is at least reasonable argument to have but this is dumb. But on AAS all rules are thrown out which shows you don't know chit.
    Last edited by PurmaBulker1984; 11-08-2019 at 03:12 PM.
    160 lbs and jacked is about as impressive as D cups on a 300lb woman

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    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    How about with insufficient protein intake? (I assume the body does autophagy during times like that? So we are comparing the muscle loss from autophagy (such as during a total fast.)

    Still, I also find your answer extremely useful.
    Insufficient protein intake will not give your body the building blocks to have a positive protein turnover ratio. So no in that case. You can get some from body fat but that will be used for energy unless you are a.) very fat or b.) normal weight but completely untrained. For the normal person you would need some reasonable amount of dietary protein. The more the better.
    160 lbs and jacked is about as impressive as D cups on a 300lb woman

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    Originally Posted by PurmaBulker1984 View Post
    You are dumb...

    You're AAS comment is even dumber...

    How do you do 165kg x1, 125kg x 13 and only 100kg x 8. Oh because your dumb...

    Don't listen to him. Muscle loss is caused by a negative protein synthesis/protein breakdown ratio. Has nothing to do with caloric expenditure. They are only interrelated when there is either not enough dietary protein available or when body fat is so low that hormonal balances are wrecked and PS is compromised. Is it possible to make new muscle while cutting is at least reasonable argument to have but this is dumb. But on AAS all rules are thrown out which shows you don't know chit.
    A bold statement on your part ...)))
    100x8? **** ... something went wrong in the profile.
    Keep the video where I make 100 kgx24, without special preparation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTOvopNoOAg
    In fact, always with a decrease in one's own weight (for rare cases, and if it is not a fat newbie), there is a decrease in power indexes (equal to muscle mass). Otherwise, the Tien Tao would have raised more than Talakhadze.
    bench press 165 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    overhead press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps

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    A guy Purma from an excess of protein food has a blockage of the rectum. We wish him good luck and castor oil will be of help! )))
    bench press 165 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    overhead press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps

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    Originally Posted by Oleg1975K View Post
    A bold statement on your part ...)))
    100x8? **** ... something went wrong in the profile.
    Keep the video where I make 100 kgx24, without special preparation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTOvopNoOAg
    In fact, always with a decrease in one's own weight (for rare cases, and if it is not a fat newbie), there is a decrease in power indexes (equal to muscle mass). Otherwise, the Tien Tao would have raised more than Talakhadze.
    Look at those fake weights rattling around. What a funny guy.

    You know a decrease in weight doesn't have to be a decrease in muscle mass. And yes people are weaker when they are losing weight but that is due to a number of factors not related to the loss of actual muscle fiber. And for elite natural lifters, being heavier means more muscle. Cutting to lighter weight class means less muscle. But that's by design because bf% are already so low (sub 242lb weight classes). For the average gym goer with 12+% bf you can lose fat without losing one milligram of muscle mass.

    If we are talking about non natural lifters, then they can simultaneously gain large amounts of muscle while losing large amounts of fat. But that's not OPs question and not for this forum.
    160 lbs and jacked is about as impressive as D cups on a 300lb woman

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    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    If on a cut there is insufficient protein (for example during any total fast there is no protein at all) how does the muscle loss compare with how quickly new muscle can be built during bulks (especially during beginner gainz)? Is it about the same? Or does muscle get built faster during gains than it's lost during cuts with insufficient protein? Slower?
    These.... questions.
    I can tell time. Time cannot tell me.

    Formerly LactoseTolerant. I'm not very imaginative.

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    Fake dumbbells? This is 100 points out of 100! )))
    Purma, you seem to be the same power sports expert as I am in the competitive training of bodybuilders. )))
    I was twice a medalist of the Russian Bench Press Cup, in the amateur doping free division. Which, of course, is confirmed by the competition protocols. Fake dumbbells ...)))
    ---
    Now on the merits ... Relatively successful for an experienced athlete, you can maintain muscle mass without dropping below 15% bf (approximately). Further, no dose of protein will save.
    This is real ...
    bench press 165 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    overhead press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps

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    Originally Posted by Oleg1975K View Post
    Fake dumbbells? This is 100 points out of 100! )))
    Purma, you seem to be the same power sports expert as I am in the competitive training of bodybuilders. )))
    I was twice a medalist of the Russian Bench Press Cup, in the amateur doping free division. Which, of course, is confirmed by the competition protocols. Fake dumbbells ...)))
    ---
    Now on the merits ... Relatively successful for an experienced athlete, you can maintain muscle mass without dropping below 15% bf (approximately). Further, no dose of protein will save.
    This is real ...
    those sound like fake metals, so I'll have to Google Russian World Cup amateur doping free division bench press records to see if there's 165 kg bench press. How much do you weigh.
    160 lbs and jacked is about as impressive as D cups on a 300lb woman

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    Originally Posted by PurmaBulker1984 View Post
    those sound like fake metals, so I'll have to Google Russian World Cup amateur doping free division bench press records to see if there's 165 kg bench press. How much do you weigh.
    Какие к чёрту рекорды? Ты разницу между рекордом и призовым местом различаешь? ))) Мда... Фальшивые металлы...
    Ты убил наповал )))
    Ты сначала сам представься, кто ты есть, каков спортсмен, справку от отоларинголга покажи об "абсолютном слухе" (раз по звуку блинов на штанге определяешь её вес) . Затем продолжим разговор.
    bench press 165 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    overhead press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps

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    in for answers but waiting for squabbling to end.

    basically will muscle loss under bad condition be more than muscle gained under ideal conditions(all natty of course)

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    Originally Posted by NameOfPeace View Post
    in for answers but waiting for squabbling to end.

    basically will muscle loss under bad condition be more than muscle gained under ideal conditions(all natty of course)
    It's a stupid question and it's been answered up top. Of course it will. And its not even close. Eat no protein and drink alcohol none stop for a month and you'll lose 10 lbs of muscle. A noob in ideal circumstances would gain maybe 2.
    Last edited by PurmaBulker1984; 11-08-2019 at 07:31 PM.
    160 lbs and jacked is about as impressive as D cups on a 300lb woman

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    Guys, don''t hijack OPs thread.

    Originally Posted by NameOfPeace View Post
    in for answers but waiting for squabbling to end.

    basically will muscle loss under bad condition be more than muscle gained under ideal conditions(all natty of course)
    Your question is impossible to answer because you could lose muscle at a very high rate depending on how few calories and how little protein (and, critically, over what time period) we are talking.

    Muscle gain is always slow

    And why would you allow yourself into a situation where you could avoid losing muscle but don't - are you trying to accomplish results or not?
    Last edited by SuffolkPunch; 11-09-2019 at 01:27 AM.

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    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    How about with insufficient protein intake? (I assume the body does autophagy during times like that? So we are comparing the muscle loss from autophagy (such as during a total fast.)

    Still, I also find your answer extremely useful.
    Read how it really happens-
    https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/7eb...e75329fd8e.pdf
    The loss of 10 kg of total body weight will result in a loss of 3-3.5 kg of dry body weight (i.e. muscles). But this is not the most interesting thing (muscles can be built up back on the effect of “muscle memory”), see what happens to the level of testosterone when the percentage of fat drops below 12%. It becomes like the old grandfather and it takes almost six months to restore it back.
    By the way, power indicators also fell. Which indirectly says about the loss of muscle mass ....
    bench press 165 kgx1, 125 kgx13, 100 kgх24
    overhead press 100 kgx1, 82,5 kg 4 sets х 5 reps
    deadlift 230 kgx1, 200 kgx4, 190 kg 3 sets x 5 reps
    raw squat 180 kgx1, 150 kg 5x5
    chin-ups +25 kg x10 reps

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    Originally Posted by peterm28 View Post
    If on a cut there is insufficient protein (for example during any total fast there is no protein at all) how does the muscle loss compare with how quickly new muscle can be built during bulks (especially during beginner gainz)? Is it about the same? Or does muscle get built faster during gains than it's lost during cuts with insufficient protein? Slower?
    To answer your question muscle loss is easier then muscle gain under poor conditions you body will happily give up lean tissue if protein and weight training stimulus is not present as muscle is significantly more expensive energy wise to maintain then fat cells. This is when under poor conditions. So if you combined that with very low caloric diet as studies have shown that a caloric surplus will present LBM growth even without weight training present and excessive cardio (basically giving you too large of caloric deficit) you will end up being a little skinny bean no trouble.

    If you are weight training on a cut this will slow down muscle loss due to weight training causing elevation in post workout MPS but without protein you are likely to still lose significant muscle as with weight training rises in MPS increase significantly up to about 4hrs, after that protein consumption is needed also as this causes rises in MPS in order to signal growth/ maintenance of lean tissue through the recovery period post workout instead of causing rises of MPB (muscle protein breakdown).

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...3/#__sec4title
    https://www.physiology.org/doi/full/...ndo.00415.2005

    Building muscle is always slow no matter what conditions (well natural anyway) however muscle loss can occur significantly if you really wanted to lose all your muscle.
    Last edited by hardyboysare; 11-09-2019 at 04:25 AM.

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    Muscle growth/loss is affected by caloric surplus/deficit as there is a relationship to insulin (among other things). Not only is insulin anabolic but the processes for muscle gain, muscle loss and endurance adaptions all have insulin levels as one of their signalling pathways.

    In some cases muscle loss can be dramatically fast, disease or severe physical trauma, lying still in a hospital bed (or combination of these) and some of the most informative studies on the muscle breakdown mechanisms have developed out of studies on these extreme medical muscle wastage.

    While muscle loss will occur during a cut, it can be minimised as already discussed.

    I'm not sure why we should be so entertaining the scenario of a cut done be badly with insufficient protein - which could lose more muscle than next bulk if done badly enough and if you are muscular enough.

    You can make fairly much any activity go really badly if you put your mind to it creatively and make special efforts, the solution is... Don't!
    Faith in Jesus first and faith in squats second.
    Then other details will start to slot themselves into place.
    Diet restarted Monday Oct 28th @76.8, Nov 8th 75.2, target 69.x Kg.

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    Question

    Originally Posted by PurmaBulker1984 View Post
    Look at those fake weights rattling around. What a funny guy.

    You know a decrease in weight doesn't have to be a decrease in muscle mass. And yes people are weaker when they are losing weight but that is due to a number of factors not related to the loss of actual muscle fiber. And for elite natural lifters, being heavier means more muscle. Cutting to lighter weight class means less muscle. But that's by design because bf% are already so low (sub 242lb weight classes). For the average gym goer with 12+% bf you can lose fat without losing one milligram of muscle mass.

    If we are talking about non natural lifters, then they can simultaneously gain large amounts of muscle while losing large amounts of fat. But that's not OPs question and not for this forum.
    Are you seriously this fukking dumb?
    Eat heavy and lift peanut butter

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    Originally Posted by akghostrider View Post
    Are you seriously this fukking dumb?
    which part has you confused cupcake
    160 lbs and jacked is about as impressive as D cups on a 300lb woman

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    To clarify my point, when I say muscle mass I'm not talking about glycogen or water weight, but myofiblar tissue. And when I say weight loss I'm talking .5% per week or less, with a normal starting bf%. And of course healthy young males with a proper functioning endocrine system.

    If you want to crash diet, with no protein intake, sleep like chit and do drugs. Then quit going to the gym, you're wasting your time.
    160 lbs and jacked is about as impressive as D cups on a 300lb woman

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    Originally Posted by akghostrider View Post
    Are you seriously this fukking dumb?
    Go back to the Misc. It's much better suited for you than the "real" part of the forums.

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    There really is no way to determine the rate at which a person will lose or gain muscle. Too many factors. It's gonna be different for each individual.
    - Your mindset influences your outcome. It's time to take out phrases like "I can't" or "I don't have time" and replace them with phrases like "I will make the time" and "I will keep working at it until I find a way that works." Success starts with the right mindset and believing in yourself and your dreams.

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