Medicare-For-All - Britain Sounds Alarm Over Historic Waiting Lists

[Ephedra]

Mine is paid for by work, my wife is self employed and her plan is $260/month but its tax deductible so we get a third of it back. She has excellent coverage and benefits for that as described in the post you quoted.

For my insurance my employer probably pays about the same amount.

I don't think the US needs this giant overhaul, we just need open market competition across states for insurance and we need to regulate pharm prices and the cost of some services. Regulate malpractice suits.

Almost ALL of the difference in expenses between the US and other countries are in senior citizens. And guess what, the US already runs healthcare for the elderly with medicare. What does that tell you?



It tells me that the US government would be a disaster running healthcare for everyone.

Something that is never talked about and should be. So, a huge portion of US healthcare expenses are outpatient and a huge portion of that is elderly. That means assisted living facilities, nursing homes, live in nurses, hospices, things like that. Its something like 30-35% of ALL healthcare spending. I don't know how common those things are in the UK or other places in Europe, I don't know if they are added in the same way when reporting healthcare per capita/etc....but if you look at the chart above, and you look at pharm prices....its a pretty FUKKING EASY CONCLUSION as to where we could drastically cut expenses in a couple key areas and bring us in line with the rest of the world. And it doesn't take a hair brained $50 trillion plan to do it.

Great point!

[ButWhoWasNoodz]

Mine is paid for by work, my wife is self employed and her plan is $260/month but its tax deductible so we get a third of it back. She has excellent coverage and benefits for that as described in the post you quoted.

For my insurance my employer probably pays about the same amount.

I don't think the US needs this giant overhaul, we just need open market competition across states for insurance and we need to regulate pharm prices and the cost of some services. Regulate malpractice suits.

Almost ALL of the difference in expenses between the US and other countries are in senior citizens. And guess what, the US already runs healthcare for the elderly with medicare. What does that tell you?



It tells me that the US government would be a disaster running healthcare for everyone.

Something that is never talked about and should be. So, a huge portion of US healthcare expenses are outpatient and a huge portion of that is elderly. That means assisted living facilities, nursing homes, live in nurses, hospices, things like that. Its something like 30-35% of ALL healthcare spending. I don't know how common those things are in the UK or other places in Europe, I don't know if they are added in the same way when reporting healthcare per capita/etc....but if you look at the chart above, and you look at pharm prices....its a pretty FUKKING EASY CONCLUSION as to where we could drastically cut expenses in a couple key areas and bring us in line with the rest of the world. And it doesn't take a hair brained $50 trillion plan to do it.

Great post.

[NameOfPeace]

until america fixes its health problems stemming from people being lazy and not caring about their health universal health care will just be a waste of time and money. i have seen to many obese people that continue to gorge themselves on fast food and sugary drinks knowing that it is causing their obesity and health problems. seen to many people with diabetes from poor diet choices continue to eat like chit while injecting insulin because they dont want to change their bad habits. too many smokers coughing up a lung then puffing on their cigarette more while complaining about the cost of their recent doctor visit.

if everybody in america took active efforts to better their health we wouldnt need universal health care to begin with. so taxing me more to pay for their bad dietary/lifestyle habits while i try to live somewhat healthy is ridiculous and basically punishing those that do the right thing so you can reward others for their bad decisions.

[Dave22reborn]

Yeah it’s not perfect

However you can pay $300 to see a consultant who then refers tests to GP eg bloods etc which are free

Or you wait

And if it’s urgent you get bumped up the list.

And it doesn’t screw your credit or make you bankrupt if someone you love gets an illness or in an accident

And our diabetics don’t die for want of insulin

And an ambulance ride is free not thousands of dollars

All meds cost prescription fees ..it’s like $15 for 3 months

You cannot in any good conscience support the chitshow that is the American medical system

I currently have a bit of med issue, my primary care has seen me 4 times, I’ve had 3 sets of blood tests and an MRI within 3 months ...cost is 0

Oh and we have private healthcare too just haven’t used it since my last sports injury for physio therapy (which I could also have got on NHS but chose not to wait)

So you have higher taxes due to "free" healthcare, and you also have to pay more if you want quality care?

[Dave22reborn]

Your issue is your drug companies and med centred charging exorbitant fees. Your insurance companies screwing you over and over

And you seem to support it cos you’re worried about paying an extra $50 in tax and having some limitations placed on profits

Unfathomable

You think it would be an extra 50 dollars in tax?

Your entire argument is, "Sure this type of healthcare sucks.....but it's free....."

[Dave22reborn]

until america fixes its health problems stemming from people being lazy and not caring about their health universal health care will just be a waste of time and money. i have seen to many obese people that continue to gorge themselves on fast food and sugary drinks knowing that it is causing their obesity and health problems. seen to many people with diabetes from poor diet choices continue to eat like chit while injecting insulin because they dont want to change their bad habits. too many smokers coughing up a lung then puffing on their cigarette more while complaining about the cost of their recent doctor visit.

if everybody in america took active efforts to better their health we wouldnt need universal health care to begin with. so taxing me more to pay for their bad dietary/lifestyle habits while i try to live somewhat healthy is ridiculous and basically punishing those that do the right thing so you can reward others for their bad decisions.

We don't have healthcare, we have "deathcare."

[shmobin]

So you have higher taxes due to "free" healthcare, and you also have to pay more if you want quality care?

Yes, she does. But it is passthrough cost because usually their 'additional' cost is subsidised by their employers, just like ours.

[Dave22reborn]

and americans go elsewhere for healthcare for various reasons. so it goes.

We do?

[Dave22reborn]

Well I seem to remember that conversation being about infant mortality and life expectancy

But it’s ok the US healthcare system is 2 places above Cuba’s on the WHO ranking

World Health Organization Ranking; The World’s Health Systems

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 USA
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba

How come those with money from every single one of those countries, come to the US for treatment? How come we have the best hospitals in the world?

[StoliFun]

Mine is paid for by work, my wife is self employed and her plan is $260/month but its tax deductible so we get a third of it back. She has excellent coverage and benefits for that as described in the post you quoted.

For my insurance my employer probably pays about the same amount.

I don't think the US needs this giant overhaul, we just need open market competition across states for insurance and we need to regulate pharm prices and the cost of some services. Regulate malpractice suits.

Almost ALL of the difference in expenses between the US and other countries are in senior citizens. And guess what, the US already runs healthcare for the elderly with medicare. What does that tell you?



It tells me that the US government would be a disaster running healthcare for everyone.

Something that is never talked about and should be. So, a huge portion of US healthcare expenses are outpatient and a huge portion of that is elderly. That means assisted living facilities, nursing homes, live in nurses, hospices, things like that. Its something like 30-35% of ALL healthcare spending. I don't know how common those things are in the UK or other places in Europe, I don't know if they are added in the same way when reporting healthcare per capita/etc....but if you look at the chart above, and you look at pharm prices....its a pretty FUKKING EASY CONCLUSION as to where we could drastically cut expenses in a couple key areas and bring us in line with the rest of the world. And it doesn't take a hair brained $50 trillion plan to do it.

Unfortunately that graph, by the authors admission, is not based on rigorous analysis and does not hold up to scrutiny. It is badly sourced and outdated.

The US gubmint spending on healthcare for the elderly and super elderly is actually in line with other countries.

[Retoaded]

Unfortunately that graph, by the authors admission, is not based on rigorous analysis and does not hold up to scrutiny. It is badly sourced and outdated.

The US gubmint spending on healthcare for the elderly and super elderly is actually in line with other countries.

How about this one?





or this one?





or this one?





looks like 3 different studies to me. The attributed studies are in the footer of the graphs. I suspect one is the same as the other graph since the countries match, but the other two are obviously different.

[shmobin]

Unfortunately that graph, by the authors admission, is not based on rigorous analysis and does not hold up to scrutiny. It is badly sourced and outdated.

The US gubmint spending on healthcare for the elderly and super elderly is actually in line with other countries.

Sweet source bro.

[StoliFun]

Sweet source bro.

covfefe

https://theincidentaleconomist.com/w...e-and-country/

[Mark1T]

Alarmists? Like in OP? We can all be equally blinkered it seems

And if you developed a chronic illness or had an accident and could no longer work?

Seriously interested in how these things could affect the average American

My OP was not alarmist. It is based on real data and experience.

I respect your point of view and you are very intelligent. I am sure the UK plan works for some and if it works for you, I am glad you are covered.

However, a similar healthcare like Medicare for All would not work in the US for reasons already mentioned.

Thank you for your point of view.

[shmobin]

covfefe

https://theincidentaleconomist.com/w...e-and-country/

The only factoid that "article" provides is:

This is, apparently, from a year 2005 study.

That doesn't make the results inaccurate nor does it make it irrelevant to today. I'm looking for something that sustains your position that it is inaccurate bruh. And random website feedback comments from keyboard warriors doesn't count.

[Retoaded]

covfefe

https://theincidentaleconomist.com/w...e-and-country/

So the first does match one of the latter three. One of the comments says a second one of the above latter three partially used the first also.

But you are also linking a bunch of comments from anonymous interwebbers on a blog, so that doesn't exactly stand up to scrutiny either.

Welcome to any additional studies that could be linked....

[Dan_S]

You're so dramatic with your words. Health insurance in the US isn't THAT bad. Sounds like you've been watching too much BBC or CNN.

It was much more affordable before Obamacare but it's safe to say my current mid-level health care plan still puts me in a better position than you.

Yeah, this whole "everyone is bankrupt" and "$50,000 ambulance rides" are fringe cases. Or diabetics dying without insulin (I've never even heard this one). They're incredibly rare.

Most people have their insurance and the system works. It's obviously not perfect. If we could just get prices up front it'd solve almost every issue.

I also had to laugh at $300 consultant fee. That's like half a dozen co-pays. How is that an example of NHS working better?

Finally, I want to point out that "healthcare rankings" are bogus. It's because our poor do actually have bad healthcare. But for the middle and upper end, US healthcare is by far the best in the world. Which is why people come to the US for treatment.

[StoliFun]

How about this one?





or this one?





or this one?





looks like 3 different studies to me. The attributed studies are in the footer of the graphs. I suspect one is the same as the other graph since the countries match, but the other two are obviously different.

The first two are different representations of your first chart by that squirrelly Fistcheck character. I'll look up the third one in a bit.

[Retoaded]

The first two are different representations of your first chart by that squirrelly Fistcheck character. I'll look up the third one in a bit.

I'd rather you just provide another study that supports your claim that these are not accurate than link to a blogger site. I've never seen medical spending by age group except showing these types of results. If you could find something different that would be more valuable. I can show you a wordpress site with definitive proof that earth is flat or that bigfoot mated with a human to produce dog people.

Now obviously old people use more medical care also.

I also suspect that assisted living/nursing homes/home nurses may be more of a thing in the US than elsewhere in the world because our elderly are fat and diabetic and have crappy families that can't take care of them, and that type of care is a HUGE chunk of reported per capita spending in the US.

[pengh]

LOL at waiting 4 months for a CT scan in Europe when I can literally go get one in 30 minutes here. Yeah may be a couple hundred bucks so fukking what. With decent, and I just mean decent, healthcare plans its not even that. My wife broke her finger (bad) last year and had multiple MRIs, X-rays, Ct scans, saw the specialist 3 or 4 times, etc....she has an accident plan on her insurance and we were out of pocket $185 for the entire thing. I think that is something that Europeans who criticize US healthcare don't understand, is most of us with employer plans don't have any problems with healthcare whatsoever. Sure the insurance is expensive but so are more taxes.

This. Went to the ER 6 months ago and had a CT, MRI, EKG, chest Xray and a sh*t load of blood work done in less than 90 mins. Co-pay was $160. Took about 4 hours for the results.

[anonymous]

this is possible with universal healthcare. There's usually a private alternative.

Cool story bro

Let's give the government 60% of our income, 25% sales tax and pay $10 for gas so we can have system that's so chitty that we need to buy additonal insurance with our already-taxed income

[shmobin]

Cool story bro

Let's give the government 60% of our income, 25% sales tax and pay $10 for gas so we can have system that's so chitty that we need to buy additonal insurance with our already-taxed income

Now we are talking.

[Ephedra]

Cool story bro

Let's give the government 60% of our income, 25% sales tax and pay $10 for gas so we can have system that's so chitty that we need to buy additonal insurance with our already-taxed income

Sounds like a dream come true.

[ImBunky]

Cool story bro

Let's give the government 60% of our income, 25% sales tax and pay $10 for gas so we can have system that's so chitty that we need to buy additonal insurance with our already-taxed income

But, it's free.

[StoliFun]

The only factoid that "article" provides is:



That doesn't make the results inaccurate nor does it make it irrelevant to today. I'm looking for something that sustains your position that it is inaccurate bruh. And random website feedback comments from keyboard warriors doesn't count.

The commentators rightly pointed out a couple significant problems with the graph and its source data.

1) The line for the US represents our public spending per age group. US Gubmint doesn't spend much on citizens healthcare until they turn 65.

If you include US aggregate private sector spending on healthcare for it's citizens so as to reflect healthcare costs incurred by people from 0-65 years of age, our line would be much higher than other countries from 0-65.

I'm not saying that's a good thing for us btw. I'm saying that to not include it inaccurately represents what happens to the cost of US healthcare when the population gets old enough to go on Medicare.

2) The original study looked at ten different countries. That line graph only showed five countries, exaggerating the US's poor performance relative to other countries. Canada's costs for the super elderly, for instance, are nearly as high as ours. Which makes sense since they have similar culture and demographics.

So the first does match one of the latter three. One of the comments says a second one of the above latter three partially used the first also.

But you are also linking a bunch of comments from anonymous interwebbers on a blog, so that doesn't exactly stand up to scrutiny either.

Welcome to any additional studies that could be linked....

They are apparently all three based on the same study.

I'll come back to this thread if I have anything more for you. I just wanted to point out the graph sucked.

[shmobin]

The commentators rightly pointed out a couple significant problems with the graph and its source data.

1) The line for the US represents our public spending per age group. US Gubmint doesn't spend much on citizens healthcare until they turn 65.

If you include US aggregate private sector spending on healthcare for it's citizens so as to reflect healthcare costs incurred by people from 0-65 years of age, our line would be much higher than other countries from 0-65.

I'm not saying that's a good thing for us btw. I'm saying that to not include it inaccurately represents what happens to the cost of US healthcare when the population gets old enough to go on Medicare.

Do you know the original source so I can validate this comment? Because if that is the case, that chart is a retarded troll.

[StoliFun]

Do you know the original source so I can validate this comment? Because if that is the case, that chart is a retarded troll.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w11833.pdf

[shmobin]

https://www.nber.org/papers/w11833.pdf

Repped

[Mark1T]

Cool story bro

Let's give the government 60% of our income, 25% sales tax and pay $10 for gas so we can have system that's so chitty that we need to buy additonal insurance with our already-taxed income

I can't wait until I can't afford my home and go homeless. But, at least I'll have healthcare for free and if I have to wait 6 months for my lung transplant, I'll be ok in my box to live in, in front of the grocery store.

[shmobin]

I can't wait until I can't afford my home and go homeless. But, at least I'll have healthcare for free and if I have to wait 6 months for my lung transplant, I'll be ok in my box to live in, in front of the grocery store.

Don't worry bro. After free healthcare, free housing will be next.