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  1. #91
    Starvation Mode GO! NitrogenWidget's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Lastro View Post
    the extent to which universal healthcare advocates itt downplay the cost of taxes is mind-blowing. the average canadian pays almost 7 grand per year in taxes on healthcare to not be able to get urgent care from a specialist or a surgeon when it is needed, or to wait 12 hours in the emergency room.

    in most cases, some americans go bankrupt due to healthcare costs because they are not disciplined enough to set money aside for healthcare costs. if they were setting aside what the average canadian is paying in taxes for universal healthcare, nobody would even be talking about this problem. there are exceptions, but government assistance (taxpayer dollars) should be reserved for those cases, not to the average M-O-R-O-N who doesn't know how to handle money. choices have consequences. freedom has a cost

    universal healthcare is only getting worse with time. we'll see what its advocates say when their system collapses in on itself, leaving them with no choice but to go to the private sector to get the care they need (and pay for that on top of their taxes).

    my dad is nearing 70 and has been paying thousands to circumvent public healthcare to get what he needs in a timely manner. had he not, he would have suffered. he was a big fan of universal healthcare.... until he actually needed healthcare services
    yup.
    I have an HSA.
    I pump it to the max allowed yearly. just over 5k.
    I have me and my two kids on it and the last broken arm was literally 3k so I take it seriously.
    I know people who cut down their contribution when it hits the deductible.
    I don't do that. FYI I hit my 3k deductible last month just for my kids. I went to the dr once for pneumonia and that cost me like $250 total.
    pediatricians gotta be ballin'.

    I got many yrs of dr's bill between me and my kids and i'm going to give myself as big a cushion as possible.
    Also while i'm a long way from retirement, how does not building it up now make any sense?
    It's basically a retirement fund.
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  2. #92
    Cold Hearted SOB Dave22reborn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ownership_rate

    The US isn't even in the top 40. Sweden, Canada, France, Finland, Belgium etc are all ahead of it.

    Let me know if you need help reading the numbers on that table BTW.
    Can blame millenials for that ****.

    When people have the handout mentality, they tend to still live at home till they're 30, while blaming everyone and everything else accept themselves.
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  3. #93
    Registered User Rabbitjb's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by katya422 View Post
    Curious how many of you that are happy with your employer sponsored coverage have actually checked in with your HR department and asked them how much your employer contributes toward your coverage. Add that number to whatever you pay monthly. Then if you have a deductible add that.

    That is how much you actually pay before you receive any healthcare at the expense of your health insurer.

    My ex's employer disclosed that they kicked in $10K for family coverage. That is money that theoretically could have been salary if it wasn't paying for health insurance. Then my ex had $329 a month deducted from his check. Then we each had an individual $500 deductible that we had to meet before insurance paid a dime. So our cost would be between $14,448 and $15,448 before the health insurance company lost any money.

    15 years ago I was having $800 a month deducted from my monthly check for family coverage health insurance while working for a hospital chain. At the time this was more than our mortgage.



    Yes, that is some steaming BS and I can't believe anyone buys it.



    It is pretty bleak. So-called cash welfare is very limited in both the amount and the maximum length of time to receive benefits.



    Disability can take years to get. And then it is quite meager and wouldn't be enough for most people to live independently. Might be able to stay with family or rent a room in a multiple room mate situation.



    Yes, because of course if everyone just had good health habits there would be no diseases or accidents or genetic disorders. We will all live in glowing good health hallelujah hallelujah.



    Have you considered that it might be dogchit at least partly because most people don't have to use it and so don't want to fund it?



    Even insured people often have to wait for procedures. Rarely as long as mentioned in the article. Still not unusual to call to make an appointment and be told there is nothing for 2-4 months open.

    I don't have health insurance right now. Not the first time for me. One thing about Texas- ton of uninsured people.

    So I am having to pay OOP and for the maintenance of two generic prescriptions, one trip to the dentist, and just recently labs to test for anemia due to symptoms, I have spent $2,300.

    I had pretty bad chest pain a few weeks ago on a Saturday night. No one to take me to an urgent care, plus from previous experience I know they would send me to an ER. Can't afford it. So I just dealt with it and decided if I die then I just die.

    Went to a GP on Monday. Was told it was too long for a blood test to show anything, but she wanted to do an EKG to see if there was anything ongoing. Did that.

    Tried to find out how much it would cost to get my labs done for anemia. Multiple calls and got nowhere. Last week I just went online to a direct lab site. I feel pretty crap and my chest hurts...not intense all the time but achy. Got my results- ferritin 5 hemoglobin 8.

    I don't absorb iron pills and in the past I have had iron IV infusions. They are expensive. Trying to find out how expensive and in the meantime started a liquid iron today.

    Oh, and, yeah, you can have a heart attack from anemia if it is too bad.

    Great post

    This is most British people’s perception of US healthcare

    What I find rather astounding is how posters seem personally affronted that anyone thinks the US system isn’t the “best in the world”.

    Or that it costs you less than through taxation

    Or the actual costs attributed to services, procedures or medication is justifiable

    The loyalty bit is the weirdest though
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  4. #94
    Registered User ThisIsSceaming's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ButWhoWasNoodz View Post
    Aside from the people on this very forum from the UK saying they hate the UK's system.
    Nice try, though.

    Plus, there was a story in the news several weeks ago of a British (hint: UK) family flying to the US (Boston, I think) to get their kid lifesaving care not available in the UK. Guess that was fake news because everyone loves the great UK healthcare. So their kid should have died in the UK?
    Why is said treatment only available in the US?
    Why is nobody flying to the UK for life-saving treatment not available in the US?
    Strong reading comprehension. They may have gripes with their health coverage, as every system has flaws, but no one is advocating that they swap to a system similar to the U.S., where they rely on the generosity of their employer to provide decent health insurance

    Nice anecdote.
    Last edited by ThisIsSceaming; 11-05-2019 at 11:29 PM.
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  5. #95
    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    Can blame millenials for that ****.

    When people have the handout mentality, they tend to still live at home till they're 30, while blaming everyone and everything else accept themselves.
    So you were wrong...like always?
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  6. #96
    Registered User ImBunky's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by katya422 View Post
    Curious how many of you that are happy with your employer sponsored coverage have actually checked in with your HR department and asked them how much your employer contributes toward your coverage. Add that number to whatever you pay monthly. Then if you have a deductible add that.

    That is how much you actually pay before you receive any healthcare at the expense of your health insurer.

    My ex's employer disclosed that they kicked in $10K for family coverage. That is money that theoretically could have been salary if it wasn't paying for health insurance. Then my ex had $329 a month deducted from his check. Then we each had an individual $500 deductible that we had to meet before insurance paid a dime. So our cost would be between $14,448 and $15,448 before the health insurance company lost any money.
    How likely do you think it is that employers are going to bump your salary $10K if we go to UHC?

    When I changed jobs about 5 years ago I was paying $550/mo for basically the same coverage that I have now, but as a contractor I was making about that much more. That $6600 plus $3k max out of pocket is still less then the increased taxes I would pay in the UK.
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  7. #97
    WWG1WGA StoliFun's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ImBunky View Post
    How likely do you think it is that employers are going to bump your salary $10K if we go to UHC?

    When I changed jobs about 5 years ago I was paying $550/mo for basically the same coverage that I have now, but as a contractor I was making about that much more. That $6600 plus $3k max out of pocket is still less then the increased taxes I would pay in the UK.
    Katya422 can correct me if I'm wrong, but rather than suggesting that salaries would be bumped if we adopted UHC, she was trying to apprise some miscers that their employer-based health insurance actually costs a lot more than what they pay in premiums.
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  8. #98
    Registered User ButWhoWasNoodz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ThisIsSceaming View Post
    Strong reading comprehension. They may have gripes with their health coverage, as every system has flaws, but no one is advocating that they swap to a system similar to the U.S., where they rely on the generosity of their employer to provide decent health insurance

    Nice anecdote.
    Ah, yes, much anecdote. Here's the story from the right-wing Boston globe:

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyl...NSL/story.html

    The kid would have died in the UK NHS.
    "It took months for yhe NHS to approve the child to travel to the US foe treatment"
    Just LOL at asking a government bureaucrat for permission to receive medical care.

    Also for your education:

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...or-health-care

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ists-lengthen/

    STFU. Hopefully you spend that 5 cents from ShareBlue well.
    Last edited by ButWhoWasNoodz; 11-06-2019 at 04:47 AM.
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  9. #99
    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ButWhoWasNoodz View Post
    Ah, yes, much anecdote. Here's the story from the right-wing Boston globe:

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/lifestyl...NSL/story.html

    The kid would have died in the UK NHS.
    "It took months for yhe NHS to approve the child to travel to the US foe treatment"
    Just LOL at asking a government bureaucrat for permission to receive medical care.

    Also for your education:

    https://www.usnews.com/news/best-cou...or-health-care

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ists-lengthen/

    STFU. Hopefully you spend that 5 cents from ShareBlue well.
    So I actually read the article you linked unlike yourself:

    IN OLIVER’S CASE, while the UK’s socialized health care system would guarantee that any medical procedure he underwent within the country — and even within the European Union — would be cost-free for the family, it took months of petitioning the country’s National Health Service from Oliver’s pediatric cardiologist in Southampton, Dr. Shankar Sadagopan, for approval to fund Oliver’s trip and procedure at Boston Children’s. By late 2017, however, they were finally ready to travel to Boston.
    So the NHS fully funded both the travel and the procedure for a family who otherwise would have never been able to afford a complex surgery at a private hospital, and this is your example of why the NHS is bad?
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  10. #100
    Registered User Rabbitjb's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    So I actually read the article you linked unlike yourself:



    So the NHS fully funded both the travel and the procedure for a family who otherwise would have never been able to afford a complex surgery at a private hospital, and this is your example of why the NHS is bad?
    lol when you put it like that

    what would have happened to a Medicare kid in us?
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  11. #101
    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rabbitjb View Post
    lol when you put it like that

    what would have happened to a Medicare kid in us?
    Not sure exactly how it would work in that case. What I do know is that if the family didn't have insurance or if they had one of the many insurance plans that wouldn't cover an expensive procedure like that, then the kid's tour is over.

    Meanwhile the NHS paid not only for the procedure but also for his travel, and apparently this is a bad thing.

    Republicans aren't too bright.
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  12. #102
    Registered User Rabbitjb's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    Not sure exactly how it would work in that case. What I do know is that if the family didn't have insurance or if they had one of the many insurance plans that wouldn't cover an expensive procedure like that, then the kid's tour is over.

    Meanwhile the NHS paid not only for the procedure but also for his travel, and apparently this is a bad thing.

    Republicans aren't too bright.
    And that's what those with social care systems take exception to, this concept if you can't pay you suffer or die and there is only a glimmer of hope.

    No system is perfect. The NHS has massive flaws I will readily admit.

    the "mah taxes argument" anyone would think you were all millionaires. you get that most personal tax systems are staggered based on income right?
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  13. #103
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    Not sure exactly how it would work in that case. What I do know is that if the family didn't have insurance or if they had one of the many insurance plans that wouldn't cover an expensive procedure like that, then the kid's tour is over.

    Meanwhile the NHS paid not only for the procedure but also for his travel, and apparently this is a bad thing.

    Republicans aren't too bright.
    You think this scenario covers all scenarios? You need to review this entire thread, as a lot of people, UK citizens included do not share your opinion.

    As I have mentioned before, I am sure NHS is good for some, but not for all. For this thread, it would not equate to a good thing for the United States for the many reasons already posted by me and others, sources included.

    Once again, you bring down good thread with your nauseating insults which accomplish nothing.

    The US is not in recession in part because we haven't invested in the social programs that the UK has. There are better and more intelligent solutions.
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  14. #104
    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    You think this scenario covers all scenarios? You need to review this entire thread, as a lot of people, UK citizens included do not share your opinion.

    As I have mentioned before, I am sure NHS is good for some, but not for all. For this thread, it would not equate to a good thing for the United States for the many reasons already posted by me and others, sources included.

    Once again, you bring down good thread with your nauseating insults which accomplish nothing.

    The US is not in recession in part because we haven't invested in the social programs that the UK has. There are better and more intelligent solutions.
    That poster who unsurprisingly didn't read the article he posted thought it was an argument against the NHS, when it so happened to be a great example of where the NHS saves lives. Had that family not had top tier insurance in the US, the kid wouldn't have been worthy of having treatment.

    There is almost nobody in the UK, either on the labour or tory side, that doesn't want the NHS. Of course the NHS has problems, and a chronic lack of funding is among them, but nobody wants to disband it - not even the UKs most conservative party (UKIP) would think of suggesting such a thing.

    Meanwhile a significant proportion of the population in the US, both professionals and non-professional, are increasingly seeing the pitfalls of the incredibly wasteful, expensive, and inefficient US private healthcare system and how a single payer system could eliminate many of said problems.
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  15. #105
    kein mitleid fr mehrheit Stizzel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NitrogenWidget View Post
    yup.
    I have an HSA.
    I pump it to the max allowed yearly. just over 5k.
    I have me and my two kids on it and the last broken arm was literally 3k so I take it seriously.
    I know people who cut down their contribution when it hits the deductible.
    I don't do that. FYI I hit my 3k deductible last month just for my kids. I went to the dr once for pneumonia and that cost me like $250 total.
    pediatricians gotta be ballin'.

    I got many yrs of dr's bill between me and my kids and i'm going to give myself as big a cushion as possible.
    Also while i'm a long way from retirement, how does not building it up now make any sense?
    It's basically a retirement fund.
    I'm helping a family member that was diagnosed with cancer. Will take about a week to get all the tests done and as soon as the results are in treatment can start. Cant imagine how awful ut would be to go on a waiting list in a situation like that.

    Sorry, I meant to say a free waiting list.
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  16. #106
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    Originally Posted by ThisIsSceaming View Post
    Ask the 44 million uninsured Americans how long they're waiting for surgery.

    Lol no one in the UK is asking for a healthcare system similar to America's.
    Yeah, and they are leaving in droves to go the UK for the healthcare system.



    Oh, wait, no they're not...
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    Originally Posted by chaunce54 View Post
    Yeah, and they are leaving in droves to go the UK for the healthcare system.



    Oh, wait, no they're not...
    The last recorded year 1.5 million people left the US for medical care abroad. They don't go to the UK because the UK doesn't provide free NHS care to tourists, and generally only allows urgent care at a fee.
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  18. #108
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    The last recorded year 1.5 million people left the US for medical care abroad. They don't go to the UK because the UK doesn't provide free NHS care to tourists, and generally only allows urgent care at a fee.
    I mean immigrating, not medical tourism.
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    Registered User Rabbitjb's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Stizzel View Post
    I'm helping a family member that was diagnosed with cancer. Will take about a week to get all the tests done and as soon as the results are in treatment can start. Cant imagine how awful ut would be to go on a waiting list in a situation like that.

    Sorry, I meant to say a free waiting list.
    The NHS has a strict time limit for patients referred for cancer investigations. For suspected breast cancer the limit is 2 weeks

    I'm sorry about your relative but what would happen if she was one of the 44 million uninsured ?
    what happens when PHI stops paying?
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    Originally Posted by Rabbitjb View Post
    The NHS has a strict time limit for patients referred for cancer investigations. For suspected breast cancer the limit is 2 weeks

    I'm sorry about your relative but what would happen if she was one of the 44 million uninsured ?
    what happens when PHI stops paying?
    If they can't afford it they aren't considered people and so them dying is a feature, not a bug, of the for profit system. Just ask Ron Paul who basically publicly stated this.
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  21. #111
    Cold Hearted SOB Dave22reborn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    So you were wrong...like always?
    How many articles have I shown you when it comes to home ownership and Germany, and the UK?

    But since you're a Yang supporter, you probably have this fantasy of houses being free in the future....
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    The last recorded year 1.5 million people left the US for medical care abroad. They don't go to the UK because the UK doesn't provide free NHS care to tourists, and generally only allows urgent care at a fee.
    How many people come to the US for treatment, how come full time Starbucks employees have better insurance then the average citizen in Canada and Western Europe?
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    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    How many articles have I shown you when it comes to home ownership and Germany, and the UK?

    But since you're a Yang supporter, you probably have this fantasy of houses being free in the future....
    Clearly none that you have the capacity to read, because home ownership isn't any lower there than it is in the US.
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  24. #114
    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    How many people come to the US for treatment, how come full time Starbucks employees have better insurance then the average citizen in Canada and Western Europe?
    Far less than leave the US to seek treatment elsewhere.

    https://www.usitc.gov/publications/3...avel_final.pdf

    "About 0.5% of all air travelers entering the United States annually—between 100,000 and 200,000 people—list health treatment as a reason for visiting (this data excludes travelers from Canada and Mexico, the majority of whom travel to the United States overland)."
    So between 100 and 200 thousand people travelling to the US from all worldwide countries combined, plus some more from America's bordering nations.

    Meanwhile the most recent estimates for Americans leaving the US to get healthcare elsewhere sits at nearly 1.5 million.

    How can you actually try and yet be wrong every single time about everything you ever post on here?
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  25. #115
    Registered User ButWhoWasNoodz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by isingmodel View Post
    That poster who unsurprisingly didn't read the article he posted thought it was an argument against the NHS, when it so happened to be a great example of where the NHS saves lives. Had that family not had top tier insurance in the US, the kid wouldn't have been worthy of having treatment.

    There is almost nobody in the UK, either on the labour or tory side, that doesn't want the NHS. Of course the NHS has problems, and a chronic lack of funding is among them, but nobody wants to disband it - not even the UKs most conservative party (UKIP) would think of suggesting such a thing.

    Meanwhile a significant proportion of the population in the US, both professionals and non-professional, are increasingly seeing the pitfalls of the incredibly wasteful, expensive, and inefficient US private healthcare system and how a single payer system could eliminate many of said problems.
    Actually, you either misread the article with your own biases or didn't read it. The kid would have DIED in Britain's NHS and had to beg the government to let them come to the US to receive care. Strong reading comprehension. But oh yes what a glowing review of the NHS.

    "In a typical year, patients from more than 160 countries — many with some of the most developed health care systems — visit Boston Children’s for expertise and surgical procedures. “There’s almost no corner of this institution that is not engaged in providing innovative care for kids from all over the world,” Geva says."

    They're coming to the US--not going to the UK.

    "While Oliver may never need to visit Boston Children’s again as a patient, the Camerons plan to one day “come back on family holiday,” Lydia says, “to show him the place that saved his life.”

    That place WASN'T in the UK. Have another L.
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    Originally Posted by chaunce54 View Post
    Yeah, and they are leaving in droves to go the UK for the healthcare system.



    Oh, wait, no they're not...
    This.
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    Originally Posted by ButWhoWasNoodz View Post
    Actually, you either misread the article with your own biases or didn't read it. The kid would have DIED in Britain's NHS and had to beg the government to let them come to the US to receive care. Strong reading comprehension. But oh yes what a glowing review of the NHS.
    You are damn right they must petition for funds to transport and pay the exorbitant US fees for cutting edge treatment . that's how it works. But their case was considered and funded. what's the problem?

    do you know how many foreign children beg to be treated at NHS centres of excellence like Great Ormond Street Hospital one of the top 5 children's hospitals in the world
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  28. #118
    Angus McFife XIII badreligion's Avatar
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    Medicare for all on paper sounds like a great idea, the notion that a person could potentially go bankrupt having to pay medical bills for something they couldn't help is horrible. But in practice, it just doesn't work, at least not how everyone thinks it would. Just look at the VA if you want to see government run health care at work and imagine that for everyone.
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    Originally Posted by Lastro View Post
    the extent to which universal healthcare advocates itt downplay the cost of taxes is mind-blowing. the average canadian pays almost 7 grand per year in taxes on healthcare to not be able to get urgent care from a specialist or a surgeon when it is needed, or to wait 12 hours in the emergency room.

    in most cases, some americans go bankrupt due to healthcare costs because they are not disciplined enough to set money aside for healthcare costs. if they were setting aside what the average canadian is paying in taxes for universal healthcare, nobody would even be talking about this problem. there are exceptions, but government assistance (taxpayer dollars) should be reserved for those cases, not to the average M-O-R-O-N who doesn't know how to handle money. choices have consequences. freedom has a cost

    universal healthcare is only getting worse with time. we'll see what its advocates say when their system collapses in on itself, leaving them with no choice but to go to the private sector to get the care they need (and pay for that on top of their taxes).

    my dad is nearing 70 and has been paying thousands to circumvent public healthcare to get what he needs in a timely manner. had he not, he would have suffered. he was a big fan of universal healthcare.... until he actually needed healthcare services
    It's only going to get worse now Trudeau's somali refugee immigration minister changed the laws so people can now bring their sick and elderly family members over to enjoy that healthcare that Canadians paid into their whole lives.

    A lot like the warren/berntards here in the US who unironically want Muh Free along with open borders

    My in laws were all huge defenders of OHIP until they had to use it, and its been over 2 years now since my father in law was diagnosed with a torn RC and given no options to fix it.
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  30. #120
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    Originally Posted by ButWhoWasNoodz View Post
    Actually, you either misread the article with your own biases or didn't read it. The kid would have DIED in Britain's NHS and had to beg the government to let them come to the US to receive care. Strong reading comprehension. But oh yes what a glowing review of the NHS.

    "In a typical year, patients from more than 160 countries — many with some of the most developed health care systems — visit Boston Children’s for expertise and surgical procedures. “There’s almost no corner of this institution that is not engaged in providing innovative care for kids from all over the world,” Geva says."

    They're coming to the US--not going to the UK.

    "While Oliver may never need to visit Boston Children’s again as a patient, the Camerons plan to one day “come back on family holiday,” Lydia says, “to show him the place that saved his life.”

    That place WASN'T in the UK. Have another L.
    Since you obviously aren't very bright, let me try this again:

    Who paid for the treatment? What would the parents have done if there was no NHS available to all, since they couldn't afford the procedure themselves? What would a child in the US who was didn't have a top tier insurance plan that covered said procedure have done?

    Please try and answer the questions directly without dodging.
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