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  1. #61
    Registered User shmobin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Halfway View Post
    Cool story bro

    Let's give the government 60% of our income, 25% sales tax and pay $10 for gas so we can have system that's so chitty that we need to buy additonal insurance with our already-taxed income
    Now we are talking.
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  2. #62
    Registered User Ephedra's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Halfway View Post
    Cool story bro

    Let's give the government 60% of our income, 25% sales tax and pay $10 for gas so we can have system that's so chitty that we need to buy additonal insurance with our already-taxed income
    Sounds like a dream come true.
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  3. #63
    Registered User ImBunky's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Halfway View Post
    Cool story bro

    Let's give the government 60% of our income, 25% sales tax and pay $10 for gas so we can have system that's so chitty that we need to buy additonal insurance with our already-taxed income
    But, it's free.
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  4. #64
    WWG1WGA StoliFun's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shmobin View Post
    The only factoid that "article" provides is:



    That doesn't make the results inaccurate nor does it make it irrelevant to today. I'm looking for something that sustains your position that it is inaccurate bruh. And random website feedback comments from keyboard warriors doesn't count.
    The commentators rightly pointed out a couple significant problems with the graph and its source data.

    1) The line for the US represents our public spending per age group. US Gubmint doesn't spend much on citizens healthcare until they turn 65.

    If you include US aggregate private sector spending on healthcare for it's citizens so as to reflect healthcare costs incurred by people from 0-65 years of age, our line would be much higher than other countries from 0-65.

    I'm not saying that's a good thing for us btw. I'm saying that to not include it inaccurately represents what happens to the cost of US healthcare when the population gets old enough to go on Medicare.

    2) The original study looked at ten different countries. That line graph only showed five countries, exaggerating the US's poor performance relative to other countries. Canada's costs for the super elderly, for instance, are nearly as high as ours. Which makes sense since they have similar culture and demographics.

    Originally Posted by Retoaded View Post
    So the first does match one of the latter three. One of the comments says a second one of the above latter three partially used the first also.

    But you are also linking a bunch of comments from anonymous interwebbers on a blog, so that doesn't exactly stand up to scrutiny either.

    Welcome to any additional studies that could be linked....
    They are apparently all three based on the same study.

    I'll come back to this thread if I have anything more for you. I just wanted to point out the graph sucked.
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  5. #65
    Registered User shmobin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by StoliFun View Post
    The commentators rightly pointed out a couple significant problems with the graph and its source data.

    1) The line for the US represents our public spending per age group. US Gubmint doesn't spend much on citizens healthcare until they turn 65.

    If you include US aggregate private sector spending on healthcare for it's citizens so as to reflect healthcare costs incurred by people from 0-65 years of age, our line would be much higher than other countries from 0-65.

    I'm not saying that's a good thing for us btw. I'm saying that to not include it inaccurately represents what happens to the cost of US healthcare when the population gets old enough to go on Medicare.
    Do you know the original source so I can validate this comment? Because if that is the case, that chart is a retarded troll.
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  6. #66
    WWG1WGA StoliFun's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shmobin View Post
    Do you know the original source so I can validate this comment? Because if that is the case, that chart is a retarded troll.
    https://www.nber.org/papers/w11833.pdf
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  7. #67
    Registered User shmobin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by StoliFun View Post
    Repped
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  8. #68
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Halfway View Post
    Cool story bro

    Let's give the government 60% of our income, 25% sales tax and pay $10 for gas so we can have system that's so chitty that we need to buy additonal insurance with our already-taxed income
    I can't wait until I can't afford my home and go homeless. But, at least I'll have healthcare for free and if I have to wait 6 months for my lung transplant, I'll be ok in my box to live in, in front of the grocery store.
    Helping one person may not change the world, but it could change the world for one person.

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  9. #69
    Registered User shmobin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    I can't wait until I can't afford my home and go homeless. But, at least I'll have healthcare for free and if I have to wait 6 months for my lung transplant, I'll be ok in my box to live in, in front of the grocery store.
    Don't worry bro. After free healthcare, free housing will be next.
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  10. #70
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by shmobin View Post
    Don't worry bro. After free healthcare, free housing will be next.
    Thanks, man. I'll have to compare with my box I just got, tho. It was my neighbor's washing machine box and boy is it nice. I might paint it.
    Helping one person may not change the world, but it could change the world for one person.

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  11. #71
    Registered User knightofday's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Rabbitjb View Post
    Your issue is your drug companies and med centred charging exorbitant fees. Your insurance companies screwing you over and over

    And you seem to support it cos you’re worried about paying an extra $50 in tax and having some limitations placed on profits

    Unfathomable
    Crazy to me how you brush off your wait times haha, "I can do this an this and this and only have to wait 8 months for final treatment lol at you"

    Fuk off with that chit, our system has problems but I cant fathom suffering on a wait list until my govt gives me the go ahead to be treated, absolutely un-American imo.

    And $50? I fuking wish, we'd sign up tomorrow. Social healthcare will cost regular taxpayers like me THOUSANDS more per year through taxes, and the care will take much longer and be dogchit at that. I think you Europeans fail to remember that we have a "social healthcare system" already and its pure dogchit. They cant handle less than ten million, hundreds of millions plus dozens of millions of illegals would destroy us 100%
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  12. #72
    Registered User ThisIsSceaming's Avatar
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    Ask the 44 million uninsured Americans how long they're waiting for surgery.

    Lol no one in the UK is asking for a healthcare system similar to America's.
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  13. #73
    I <3 Dubstep StarFox's Avatar
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    Once you wait for whatever predetermined amount of time, at least you can get your treatment for free!


    Unless of course the NHS deems you to be racist, sexist or bigoted in which case you can fukk off and die

    https://summit.news/2019/11/05/uk-na...s-and-sexists/


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  14. #74
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by StarFox View Post
    Once you wait for whatever predetermined amount of time, at least you can get your treatment for free!


    Unless of course the NHS deems you to be racist, sexist or bigoted in which case you can fukk off and die

    https://summit.news/2019/11/05/uk-na...s-and-sexists/
    Good find. That is shocking. They are making it too easy to deny citizens healthcare.

    That is what socialism evolves in to. Nothing good.
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  15. #75
    Registered User Chowboy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dabbmw2002 View Post
    Unfortunately I've had to spend a lot of money on health issues over the last year but one thing I remind myself is even though I've spent a lot of money (thousands of dollars) is if I make a phone call, within a few days I get whatever is needed- MRIs, CT scan, X-ray, endoscopy.....whatever. I would rather pay money and get treated than get it for free and have to wait.

    This times a million. I was given 2-3 months to live. Many CTs, bags of poison, weeks of radiation and I'm still alive and recovering nicely 8 months later. Out of pocket expenses: $6K.


    A govt death panel would have deemed me an unnecessary expense. Fuk them and all of you retards who want a corrupt and politicized bureaucracy determining your health reqt's.
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  16. #76
    Stop or I shoot. dakensta's Avatar
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    It's weird. The more the current conservative government has turned the NHS into a for-profit organisation —funded by taxpayers— while cutting the number of nurses and doctors, and doing away with free training for nurses, the more it costs the UK, while giving worse service, with fewer doctor and nurses. What gives?!!? Socialism is obviously to blame. FFS.
    I ain't no consarned religious fool, or such.

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  17. #77
    Cold Hearted SOB Dave22reborn's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Halfway View Post
    Cool story bro

    Let's give the government 60% of our income, 25% sales tax and pay $10 for gas so we can have system that's so chitty that we need to buy additonal insurance with our already-taxed income
    There ya go again with your numbers, don't you care about those people going bankrupt? Even though it seems to be a number they're pulling out of their ass.
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  18. #78
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    I can't wait until I can't afford my home and go homeless. But, at least I'll have healthcare for free and if I have to wait 6 months for my lung transplant, I'll be ok in my box to live in, in front of the grocery store.
    They won't mention it, but so many people rent in these Socialist Utopias....I wonder why they're not owning any kind of property? You know, something they can maybe leave their children?
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    Originally Posted by dakensta View Post
    It's weird. The more the current conservative government has turned the NHS into a for-profit organisation —funded by taxpayers— while cutting the number of nurses and doctors, and doing away with free training for nurses, the more it costs the UK, while giving worse service, with fewer doctor and nurses. What gives?!!? Socialism is obviously to blame. FFS.
    Conservatives in Western Europe have a different meaning, they're more like moderate Democrats.

    Hell, explain what makes Merkel a supposed conservative?
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    Originally Posted by ThisIsSceaming View Post
    Ask the 44 million uninsured Americans how long they're waiting for surgery.

    Lol no one in the UK is asking for a healthcare system similar to America's.
    Aside from the people on this very forum from the UK saying they hate the UK's system.
    Nice try, though.
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    Registered User Halfway's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    They won't mention it, but so many people rent in these Socialist Utopias....I wonder why they're not owning any kind of property? You know, something they can maybe leave their children?
    You didn't build that!

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  22. #82
    Registered User ButWhoWasNoodz's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ThisIsSceaming View Post
    Ask the 44 million uninsured Americans how long they're waiting for surgery.

    Lol no one in the UK is asking for a healthcare system similar to America's.
    Aside from the people on this very forum from the UK saying they hate the UK's system.
    Nice try, though.

    Plus, there was a story in the news several weeks ago of a British (hint: UK) family flying to the US (Boston, I think) to get their kid lifesaving care not available in the UK. Guess that was fake news because everyone loves the great UK healthcare. So their kid should have died in the UK?
    Why is said treatment only available in the US?
    Why is nobody flying to the UK for life-saving treatment not available in the US?
    Last edited by ButWhoWasNoodz; 11-05-2019 at 06:50 PM.
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    Registered User isingmodel's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    They won't mention it, but so many people rent in these Socialist Utopias....I wonder why they're not owning any kind of property? You know, something they can maybe leave their children?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ownership_rate

    The US isn't even in the top 40. Sweden, Canada, France, Finland, Belgium etc are all ahead of it.

    Let me know if you need help reading the numbers on that table BTW.
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    Originally Posted by ButWhoWasNoodz View Post
    Aside from the people on this very forum from the UK saying they hate the UK's system.
    Nice try, though.

    Plus, there was a story in the news several weeks ago of a British (hint: UK) family flying to the US (Boston, I think) to get their kid lifesaving care not available in the UK. Guess that was fake news because everyone loves the great UK healthcare. So their kid should have died in the UK?
    There are extraordinary anecdotals in every system. Glad that kid got treated. Sorry it was in Boston.
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    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    They won't mention it, but so many people rent in these Socialist Utopias....I wonder why they're not owning any kind of property? You know, something they can maybe leave their children?
    They give up their livelihoods and lifestyles to pay for social programs that are mediocre at best. They are on the verge of bankruptcy and their governments are on the verge of or in recession.

    The democrats here want everyone to be average.
    Helping one person may not change the world, but it could change the world for one person.

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    Originally Posted by Rabbitjb View Post
    Yeah it’s not perfect

    However you can pay $300 to see a consultant who then refers tests to GP eg bloods etc which are free

    Or you wait

    And if it’s urgent you get bumped up the list.

    And it doesn’t screw your credit or make you bankrupt if someone you love gets an illness or in an accident

    And our diabetics don’t die for want of insulin

    And an ambulance ride is free not thousands of dollars

    All meds cost prescription fees ..it’s like $15 for 3 months

    You cannot in any good conscience support the chitshow that is the American medical system

    I currently have a bit of med issue, my primary care has seen me 4 times, I’ve had 3 sets of blood tests and an MRI within 3 months ...cost is 0

    Oh and we have private healthcare too just haven’t used it since my last sports injury for physio therapy (which I could also have got on NHS but chose not to wait)
    Imagine paying 40% more in taxes and thinking your healthcare cost is 0.
    Converting everything to USD and assuming the same us median wage the Brit will pay about 4000 more in what are essentially federal taxes each year.

    For me and my daughter insurance is going to cost me 3 grand a year. It would have been about 1000 for just me. Guess what no wait list. Get seen within a week for a general check up. prescription drugs cost less than they cost you.
    In reality the brits median income is actually 15k lower than the US AND they have sales and VAT tax too.

    Got dam brits are fuking morons thinking they are getting a good deal. Poor dumb bastards.
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    You can pay for a Coke, and it's great. Or someone can give you a free cup of piss... and you should thank them only because it's free?
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    Registered User Lastro's Avatar
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    the extent to which universal healthcare advocates itt downplay the cost of taxes is mind-blowing. the average canadian pays almost 7 grand per year in taxes on healthcare to not be able to get urgent care from a specialist or a surgeon when it is needed, or to wait 12 hours in the emergency room.

    in most cases, some americans go bankrupt due to healthcare costs because they are not disciplined enough to set money aside for healthcare costs. if they were setting aside what the average canadian is paying in taxes for universal healthcare, nobody would even be talking about this problem. there are exceptions, but government assistance (taxpayer dollars) should be reserved for those cases, not to the average M-O-R-O-N who doesn't know how to handle money. choices have consequences. freedom has a cost

    universal healthcare is only getting worse with time. we'll see what its advocates say when their system collapses in on itself, leaving them with no choice but to go to the private sector to get the care they need (and pay for that on top of their taxes).

    my dad is nearing 70 and has been paying thousands to circumvent public healthcare to get what he needs in a timely manner. had he not, he would have suffered. he was a big fan of universal healthcare.... until he actually needed healthcare services
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    No Huevos katya422's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Retoaded View Post
    LOL at waiting 4 months for a CT scan in Europe when I can literally go get one in 30 minutes here. Yeah may be a couple hundred bucks so fukking what. With decent, and I just mean decent, healthcare plans its not even that. My wife broke her finger (bad) last year and had multiple MRIs, X-rays, Ct scans, saw the specialist 3 or 4 times, etc....she has an accident plan on her insurance and we were out of pocket $185 for the entire thing. I think that is something that Europeans who criticize US healthcare don't understand, is most of us with employer plans don't have any problems with healthcare whatsoever. Sure the insurance is expensive but so are more taxes.
    Originally Posted by Retoaded View Post
    Mine is paid for by work, my wife is self employed and her plan is $260/month but its tax deductible so we get a third of it back. She has excellent coverage and benefits for that as described in the post you quoted.

    For my insurance my employer probably pays about the same amount.
    Curious how many of you that are happy with your employer sponsored coverage have actually checked in with your HR department and asked them how much your employer contributes toward your coverage. Add that number to whatever you pay monthly. Then if you have a deductible add that.

    That is how much you actually pay before you receive any healthcare at the expense of your health insurer.

    My ex's employer disclosed that they kicked in $10K for family coverage. That is money that theoretically could have been salary if it wasn't paying for health insurance. Then my ex had $329 a month deducted from his check. Then we each had an individual $500 deductible that we had to meet before insurance paid a dime. So our cost would be between $14,448 and $15,448 before the health insurance company lost any money.

    15 years ago I was having $800 a month deducted from my monthly check for family coverage health insurance while working for a hospital chain. At the time this was more than our mortgage.

    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    Respectfully, the costs are way much more than that. The unreal costs of over $50 Trillion, the logistics of over 300 million people including illegal aliens would break the back of the US economy in addition to the 2 million jobs lost in private healthcare. Medicare for All is already losing its appeal in the polls and among college students who are finally seeing the light. Warren is claiming that Medicare for All will be fully paid for by the richest 1%. Not true and is it ridiculous.

    Boom
    Yes, that is some steaming BS and I can't believe anyone buys it.

    Originally Posted by Rabbitjb View Post
    Alarmists? Like in OP? We can all be equally blinkered it seems

    And if you developed a chronic illness or had an accident and could no longer work?

    Seriously interested in how these things could affect the average American
    It is pretty bleak. So-called cash welfare is very limited in both the amount and the maximum length of time to receive benefits.

    Originally Posted by Ephedra View Post
    Then we have disability programs set up by the state and government that would cover me that I've been contributing to my whole life through taxes.

    You don't know this?
    Disability can take years to get. And then it is quite meager and wouldn't be enough for most people to live independently. Might be able to stay with family or rent a room in a multiple room mate situation.

    Originally Posted by NameOfPeace View Post

    if everybody in america took active efforts to better their health we wouldnt need universal health care to begin with. so taxing me more to pay for their bad dietary/lifestyle habits while i try to live somewhat healthy is ridiculous and basically punishing those that do the right thing so you can reward others for their bad decisions.
    Yes, because of course if everyone just had good health habits there would be no diseases or accidents or genetic disorders. We will all live in glowing good health hallelujah hallelujah.

    Originally Posted by knightofday View Post
    Crazy to me how you brush off your wait times haha, "I can do this an this and this and only have to wait 8 months for final treatment lol at you"

    Fuk off with that chit, our system has problems but I cant fathom suffering on a wait list until my govt gives me the go ahead to be treated, absolutely un-American imo.

    And $50? I fuking wish, we'd sign up tomorrow. Social healthcare will cost regular taxpayers like me THOUSANDS more per year through taxes, and the care will take much longer and be dogchit at that. I think you Europeans fail to remember that we have a "social healthcare system" already and its pure dogchit. They cant handle less than ten million, hundreds of millions plus dozens of millions of illegals would destroy us 100%
    Have you considered that it might be dogchit at least partly because most people don't have to use it and so don't want to fund it?

    Originally Posted by ThisIsSceaming View Post
    Ask the 44 million uninsured Americans how long they're waiting for surgery.

    Lol no one in the UK is asking for a healthcare system similar to America's.
    Even insured people often have to wait for procedures. Rarely as long as mentioned in the article. Still not unusual to call to make an appointment and be told there is nothing for 2-4 months open.

    I don't have health insurance right now. Not the first time for me. One thing about Texas- ton of uninsured people.

    So I am having to pay OOP and for the maintenance of two generic prescriptions, one trip to the dentist, and just recently labs to test for anemia due to symptoms, I have spent $2,300.

    I had pretty bad chest pain a few weeks ago on a Saturday night. No one to take me to an urgent care, plus from previous experience I know they would send me to an ER. Can't afford it. So I just dealt with it and decided if I die then I just die.

    Went to a GP on Monday. Was told it was too long for a blood test to show anything, but she wanted to do an EKG to see if there was anything ongoing. Did that.

    Tried to find out how much it would cost to get my labs done for anemia. Multiple calls and got nowhere. Last week I just went online to a direct lab site. I feel pretty crap and my chest hurts...not intense all the time but achy. Got my results- ferritin 5 hemoglobin 8.

    I don't absorb iron pills and in the past I have had iron IV infusions. They are expensive. Trying to find out how expensive and in the meantime started a liquid iron today.

    Oh, and, yeah, you can have a heart attack from anemia if it is too bad.
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  30. #90
    Starvation Mode GO! NitrogenWidget's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ButWhoWasNoodz View Post
    Aside from the people on this very forum from the UK saying they hate the UK's system.
    Nice try, though.

    Plus, there was a story in the news several weeks ago of a British (hint: UK) family flying to the US (Boston, I think) to get their kid lifesaving care not available in the UK. Guess that was fake news because everyone loves the great UK healthcare. So their kid should have died in the UK?
    Why is said treatment only available in the US?
    Why is nobody flying to the UK for life-saving treatment not available in the US?
    I live by the border.
    I work with Canadians who come to the U.S. for surgery.
    which is weird cause it's like free up there.
    right?
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