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    Program question

    Long time lurker first time posting. 37 years old 6’3” 223 lbs down from 295 lbs. Currently losing 1-1.5 lbs per week.

    I started lifting again in June of 18 on Allpro. I switched in March of this year to Fierce 5. My lifts are progressing but I am starting to fail more frequently. After decreasing weight per the program they do increase 5-10 lbs before failing again. I am finding that I am becoming tired a lot more over the last month. My sleep pattern had been consistent with what it normally is over this time.

    I am 18 lbs from my goal weight of 205lbs. My question is should I stay on Fierce Five or switch back to Allpro? Or is this just due to being in a deficit?
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    Originally Posted by shackleford974 View Post
    Long time lurker first time posting. 37 years old 6’3” 223 lbs down from 295 lbs. Currently losing 1-1.5 lbs per week.

    I started lifting again in June of 18 on Allpro. I switched in March of this year to Fierce 5. My lifts are progressing but I am starting to fail more frequently. After decreasing weight per the program they do increase 5-10 lbs before failing again. I am finding that I am becoming tired a lot more over the last month. My sleep pattern had been consistent with what it normally is over this time.

    I am 18 lbs from my goal weight of 205lbs. My question is should I stay on Fierce Five or switch back to Allpro? Or is this just due to being in a deficit?
    I don’t know for sure what’s happening in your situation, but the closer you get to lean, the more a deficit will impact you. Also, there will come a point when the linear progression of either program will top out for you, and you’ll have to switch to an intermediate program. But as mentioned, neither I nor anyone else can tell you conclusively that’s what’s happening to you at this moment.

    That said, will you actually be lean at 205? Without having an idea of how much muscle you’ve got on your frame, it’s hard to tell.

    You’ve done a fantastic job on the weight loss so far - keep it up!
    My Candito Linear log:
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177212011&p=1581528721#post1581528721

    My Fierce 5 Novice log (deprecated): https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175702561&p=1550387651#post1550387651

    My Strava profile: https://www.strava.com/athletes/3015113
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    Thank you. I’m expecting to be close to 15% body fat at 205 but won’t know until I get there. As I’ve read many times I expect I will want to lose more once I get there but that was goal weight when starting.....I’ve never been truly lean in my life so everything from this point on is new territory for me.

    You answered what I was wondering about. I will stay the course. Thanks again.
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    Originally Posted by shackleford974 View Post
    Long time lurker first time posting. 37 years old 6’3” 223 lbs down from 295 lbs. Currently losing 1-1.5 lbs per week.

    I started lifting again in June of 18 on Allpro. I switched in March of this year to Fierce 5. My lifts are progressing but I am starting to fail more frequently. After decreasing weight per the program they do increase 5-10 lbs before failing again. I am finding that I am becoming tired a lot more over the last month. My sleep pattern had been consistent with what it normally is over this time.

    I am 18 lbs from my goal weight of 205lbs. My question is should I stay on Fierce Five or switch back to Allpro? Or is this just due to being in a deficit?
    General rule is can't sleep, too much intensity. Can't sleep enough, too much volume. That said, deficit makes a huge difference. Switch to maintenance calories for two weeks, then resume diet.
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    Originally Posted by drudixon View Post
    General rule is can't sleep, too much intensity. Can't sleep enough, too much volume. That said, deficit makes a huge difference. Switch to maintenance calories for two weeks, then resume diet.
    Thanks for the info. I had never heard that before but it makes sense with my personal experience. I find that as weight increases I do have difficulty going to bed even hours after lifting, but that is a life long problem so I never made the connection. Is it recommended to take a break from cutting every couple months?
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    Originally Posted by shackleford974 View Post
    Thanks for the info. I had never heard that before but it makes sense with my personal experience. I find that as weight increases I do have difficulty going to bed even hours after lifting, but that is a life long problem so I never made the connection. Is it recommended to take a break from cutting every couple months?
    Absolutely take breaks. The longer you diet, the longer the break you need. You don't want your body to become efficient at a given intake and long periods of dieting lead to just that. I prefer a ladder myself.
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    Originally Posted by drudixon View Post
    Absolutely take breaks. The longer you diet, the longer the break you need. You don't want your body to become efficient at a given intake and long periods of dieting lead to just that. I prefer a ladder myself.
    So for example:
    Maintenance 2-3weeks
    Minus 250 2-3weeks
    Minus 500 2-3weeks
    Minus 250 2-3weeks
    Maintenance 2-3weeks
    Repeat
    I know the numbers aren’t exact but is that the general idea?
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    Originally Posted by shackleford974 View Post
    So for example:
    Maintenance 2-3weeks
    Minus 250 2-3weeks
    Minus 500 2-3weeks
    Minus 250 2-3weeks
    Maintenance 2-3weeks
    Repeat
    I know the numbers aren’t exact but is that the general idea?
    Certainly try it. Never hurts to play around. I don't cut hard any more, but if I did :

    3000, 2700, 2700, 2700, 2900, 2600, 2600, 2600, and so on. That small a difference in calories requires eating basically the same thing each day. In principle, refeed every 4th or fifth day, and keep stepping down.
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    Eating the same thing every day is basically what I do now. Dinner is the only thing that changes. I will try it for a couple of months and see how it goes. At worst it will help fight the boredom and give me something else to overthink for a while. Thanks for the advice.
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    Originally Posted by shackleford974 View Post
    Eating the same thing every day is basically what I do now. Dinner is the only thing that changes. I will try it for a couple of months and see how it goes. At worst it will help fight the boredom and give me something else to overthink for a while. Thanks for the advice.
    LOL, exactly. Lifting success is so formulaic it is boring as phuk. Fwiw whether I'm bulking or dieting, fat and carbs are always the same for the given bodyweight. Only carbs go up or down, which for me means a few more or less beers in a day.
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    Originally Posted by drudixon View Post
    LOL, exactly. Lifting success is so formulaic it is boring as phuk. Fwiw whether I'm bulking or dieting, fat and carbs are always the same for the given bodyweight. Only carbs go up or down, which for me means a few more or less beers in a day.
    So true. Beer is something I have to keep a very close eye on...

    Since I read the sticky a while back about macros I have really only focused on minimums being met while not focusing so much on percentages. I still come within +-4% usually on targets. Targets are 40 carbs 30 protein 30 fat.

    Recently I’ve noticed the fat has increased to closer to 35% on average tying it with carbs. Would that affect energy levels?
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    Originally Posted by drudixon View Post
    Certainly try it. Never hurts to play around. I don't cut hard any more, but if I did :

    3000, 2700, 2700, 2700, 2900, 2600, 2600, 2600, and so on. That small a difference in calories requires eating basically the same thing each day. In principle, refeed every 4th or fifth day, and keep stepping down.
    Damn, all of those numbers I think I would gain weight on. I think my metabolism is broken.
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    Originally Posted by willybrokeback View Post
    Damn, all of those numbers I think I would gain weight on. I think my metabolism is broken.

    What is your height and weight now? What do you think your lean mass is? Do you fidget?
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    Originally Posted by shackleford974 View Post
    So true. Beer is something I have to keep a very close eye on...

    Since I read the sticky a while back about macros I have really only focused on minimums being met while not focusing so much on percentages. I still come within +-4% usually on targets. Targets are 40 carbs 30 protein 30 fat.

    Recently I’ve noticed the fat has increased to closer to 35% on average tying it with carbs. Would that affect energy levels?
    Most of my calories outside of beer come from fat. I'm typically 60 25 15 (f, c, p) hese days as a baseline. I really care less about percentages and more the grams. So of my 2800 calories that's 186 grams of fat, 168 grams of carbs and 112 grams of protein.

    I'd likely progress better if I upped the protein but my kidneys get mad if I go much higher. I feel and progress better when fat is higher than carbs. Maybe unique to me, idk. Just trial and error. Calorie for calorie, if I swap carbs and fat I'm hungrier, feel worse and gym results decline.

    Ymmv
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    Originally Posted by drudixon View Post
    What is your height and weight now? What do you think your lean mass is? Do you fidget?
    Im 5'10 about 260. I would guess my lean mass is 180 ish +/- 10lbs. I do fidget. I have a fairly sedentary job currently as well, and sometimes the back pain gets to the point I just need to rest. But I do play hockey sundays and walk daily to help overall activity. I was one of those people growing up who could not get enough calories, and now things have flipped. I know I need to do a better job tracking and weighing food, because my estimating sucks.
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    Originally Posted by willybrokeback View Post
    I know I need to do a better job tracking and weighing food, because my estimating sucks.
    In my experience estimating only got me so far because I’m pretty good at talking myself into bad decisions. I finally started entering literally everything that I eat and drink into My Fitness Pal and it was a wake up call. I also starting weighing and measuring everything. It was a pain at first but now is a habit. It’s all led to a consistent 1-1.5 lb loss a week since August after a few months of floundering.
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    Originally Posted by willybrokeback View Post
    Im 5'10 about 260. I would guess my lean mass is 180 ish +/- 10lbs. I do fidget. I have a fairly sedentary job currently as well, and sometimes the back pain gets to the point I just need to rest. But I do play hockey sundays and walk daily to help overall activity. I was one of those people growing up who could not get enough calories, and now things have flipped. I know I need to do a better job tracking and weighing food, because my estimating sucks.
    Ya, no way maintenance calories for me would put lbs on you. Something amiss.
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    Originally Posted by shackleford974 View Post
    In my experience estimating only got me so far because I’m pretty good at talking myself into bad decisions. I finally started entering literally everything that I eat and drink into My Fitness Pal and it was a wake up call. I also starting weighing and measuring everything. It was a pain at first but now is a habit. It’s all led to a consistent 1-1.5 lb loss a week since August after a few months of floundering.
    So I set a goal of putting everything in MFP, and I am realizing how right you are. Monday I thought I was doing ok, not strict, but not crazy and I calculated it the next day at 3200 calories! So I think out of all of my goals, just tracking and weighing things might be the one that helps the most. Then I can really adjust calories accordingly. Often I will do really well until about 5, and then Ill figure I have a bunch of calories in the bank so Ill start snacking and I don't calculate it. I think that's when things go sideways.
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    Thank you

    Thank you guys for the input. OP sorry for hijacking your thread.
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    Originally Posted by willybrokeback View Post
    Thank you guys for the input. OP sorry for hijacking your thread.
    No worries. It’s nice to hear from others on the same journey. In real life I don’t know a lot of people who are actively trying to get healthier or better physically.
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