Powerlifting Did Something Right

[NorwichGrad]

Now my beloved sport of Weightlifting needs to do the same. There are ‘females’ with penors setting records in the snatch and clean & jerk in my sport.

https://conservativeflash.com/2019/1...Cpg5GycZH-5ml4

[Jtbny]

Anyone biologically born male is going to have a distinct advantage over competitors biologically born female, no matter how they "identify" and no matter how much hormone therapy and gender reassignment they've gone through.

Exactly. We had a transgender "woman" register in a Grappling Industries tournament who would have gone against one of my teammates. My coach found out about the situation and pulled our competitor from the tourney. Risk in combat sports is already higher and letting a former male compete against women is ridiculous. Do what you want but when it comes to competition there should be a separate trans division, IMO.

[ElrondHubbard]

Exactly. We had a transgender "woman" register in a Grappling Industries tournament who would have gone against one of my teammates. My coach found out about the situation and pulled our competitor from the tourney. Risk in combat sports is already higher and letting a former male compete against women is ridiculous. Do what you want but when it comes to competition there should be a separate trans division, IMO.

Absolutely.

[NorwichGrad]

That is only one Federation, not the entire sport, but good on them for standing up to the Libtards and using common sense.

Anyone biologically born male is going to have a distinct advantage over competitors biologically born female, no matter how they "identify" and no matter how much hormone therapy and gender reassignment they've gone through.

Understood.

I know PL has many feds. This is both a blessing and a curse.

Having choices = freedom.

If a PLer wants to compete multi-ply, single ply, raw, classic. Great. He or she has many choices.

Weightlifting only has one fed. Likewise, a blessing and a curse.

[induced_drag]

It is going even further than transgender. They are outright letting boys play in girls sports in HS. Boys are rolling over the girls in field hockey. One team (undefeated now of course) has season goals for/against of 173/3 Now!

https://turtleboysports.com/wayland-...o9q5dIsGdliPaI

[Karl_Hungus]

Exactly. We had a transgender "woman" register in a Grappling Industries tournament who would have gone against one of my teammates. My coach found out about the situation and pulled our competitor from the tourney. Risk in combat sports is already higher and letting a former male compete against women is ridiculous. Do what you want but when it comes to competition there should be a separate trans division, IMO.

Probably not enough competitors for a trans division. If they are biologically male, then they should just compete in the men's division. These trans "women" might not think this is fair, but sometimes life is not fair and there isn't much we can do to make it fair. In these cases, attempts to do so just make things worse. It certainly doesn't make sense to accommodate the wishes of a tiny fraction of competitors by being unfair to 100% of the female competitors.

[crupiea]

Just wait until the next olympics. Once men will al the female titles this whole debacle will go away, srs.

[Jtbny]

Probably not enough competitors for a trans division. If they are biologically male, then they should just compete in the men's division. These trans "women" might not think this is fair, but sometimes life is not fair and there isn't much we can do to make it fair. In these cases, attempts to do so just make things worse. It certainly doesn't make sense to accommodate the wishes of a tiny fraction of competitors by being unfair to 100% of the female competitors.

There aren't that's for sure and yes, they should compete in the mens division. My teammate didn't know what to do, and left to make the decision, she would have competed. For these comps you can always compete in divisions that you're disadvantaged in (40 year old dropping down to the younger divisions, ect) but never where you have an advantage which was weird they'd let this person compete w/ women.

[Bando]

Exactly. We had a transgender "woman" register in a Grappling Industries tournament who would have gone against one of my teammates. My coach found out about the situation and pulled our competitor from the tourney.

left to make the decision, she would have competed.

It would be nice if these decisions could be made by the affected athlete and not by everyone with an opinion and a keyboard. My daughter's soccer team had a player that by all outward appearances was a boy. The kids were fine with it, the young person felt included, hell even the parents didn't have a problem with it, (granted the kid wasn't very good.)

People rush to the conclusion that individuals identify as a different gender to gain competitive advantage and nothing could be further from the truth. Walk a mile in one of these people's shoes and face what they face on a day to day basis, and if you don't have a dog in the fight mind your own fukking business.

[NorwichGrad]

if you don't have a dog in the fight mind your own fukking business.

I have many goats in the fight.

I have competitive weightlifters who are biological females.

[Bando]

I have many goats in the fight.

I have competitive weightlifters who are biological females.

Ok, let's hear from them. So far the entire conversation is from men. I dunno if you ever met a female powerlifter, but by and large they are baddasses worthy of their own opinions.

[Jtbny]

It would be nice if these decisions could be made by the affected athlete and not by everyone with an opinion and a keyboard. My daughter's soccer team had a player that by all outward appearances was a boy. The kids were fine with it, the young person felt included, hell even the parents didn't have a problem with it, (granted the kid wasn't very good.)

People rush to the conclusion that individuals identify as a different gender to gain competitive advantage and nothing could be further from the truth. Walk a mile in one of these people's shoes and face what they face on a day to day basis, and if you don't have a dog in the fight mind your own fukking business.

My coach is her coach and he did what a good coach does, look out for their athlete. His "dog" was literally in the fight. /shrug

In any combat sport the individual who was born a biological male will always have an advantage intended or not. Again, like I said in my other post "Do what you want", IDC, except when it comes to sports, especially combat sports.

[TolerantLactose]

Ok, let's hear from them. So far the entire conversation is from men. I dunno if you ever met a female powerlifter, but by and large they are baddasses worthy of their own opinions.

https://thevelvetchronicle.com/selin...-equality-act/

[Bando]

My coach is her coach and he did what a good coach does, look out for their athlete. His "dog" was literally in the fight. /shrug

In any combat sport the individual who was born a biological male will always have an advantage intended or not. Again, like I said in my other post "Do what you want", IDC, except when it comes to sports, especially combat sports.

Point taken. But back to PL, do you know any females who would shirk at a competitor being born a male? I suspect the Herc and BIB gals would relish the opportunity to wipe the platform with such a competitor.

[Karl_Hungus]

It would be nice if these decisions could be made by the affected athlete and not by everyone with an opinion and a keyboard. My daughter's soccer team had a player that by all outward appearances was a boy. The kids were fine with it, the young person felt included, hell even the parents didn't have a problem with it, (granted the kid wasn't very good.)

People rush to the conclusion that individuals identify as a different gender to gain competitive advantage and nothing could be further from the truth. Walk a mile in one of these people's shoes and face what they face on a day to day basis, and if you don't have a dog in the fight mind your own fukking business.

Soccer is a team sport. The advantages manifest themselves most acutely in individual competition. And, nobody is saying people switch genders for competitive advantage. The reasons they switch genders are irrelevant. The fact is, male athletes have a distinct competitive advantage relative to women and more women ARE speaking up about trans "women" f'cking up their competitions.

[Mark1T]

Probably not enough competitors for a trans division.

Karl, there will be. Times a changin'.

[Jtbny]

Point taken. But back to PL, do you know any females who would shirk at a competitor being born a male? I suspect the Herc and BIB gals would relish the opportunity to wipe the platform with such a competitor.

No one would care if it didn't give such an advantage. My guess is if they weren't getting beat they'd feel the same way. Unfortunately, they'd all get beat.

Anyhow, PL is the easiest to fix. They can have a trans division and be done with it. It's not like there are head to head matches in PL, it's all ranking based on totals from all Feds.

[KyleAaron]

Point taken. But back to PL, do you know any females who would shirk at a competitor being born a male?

Yes.

It's worth noting that even the women competing in untested federations, their records are lower than the men of the same weight class of tested federations. As example, Chleo Van Wyk [https://www.instagram.com/chleo_v_wyk/?hl=en] was suspended for a positive doping test (anabolics) while lifting with Powerlifting Australia, which at the time was the IPF-affiliated federation in Australia. She subsequently "retired" from powerlifting (ie from PA - she still lifts competitively in untested PL) and gained 15kg of bodyweight, which you can see from her IG is largely lean mass gain. Her best total is 705 at 78.6kg. The best women's tested total in her weight class is Amanda Lawrence with 613kg, and men's is Russel Orhii with 833kg [http://goodlift.info/records.php?fd=0&ac=0&sx=M&eq=1]

That is, going through a masculine adolescence provides a greater advantage than unrestricted use of anabolic steroids.

When Laurel Hubbard competed in weightlifting, her competitors were overall not happy. So much so that the Australian Weightlifting Federation told its members that any negative public comment about this or similar issues would lead to their expulsion from the AWF. Australian Rules Football Women have also been told the same, and many other sports. Hubbar's home federation in NZ, their lifters didn't need to be told to be quiet because the NZ weightlifting stadium was paid for by her father, and she herself had been on the executive board of NZWL, which just after she left voted to let her compete in the women's division.

We don't hear the negative opinions of ciswomen athletes on this issue, because they have been silenced, usually officially through their sporting federations, and on top of that unofficially through the wokesters hunting them down on social media, or through knowing who pays for the stadium and the like.

Most ciswomen athletes do not want to compete against transwomen. More specifically, against people who've been through a masculine adolescence.

Consider that in tested sports, you can get a Therapeutic Use Exemption for medical use of drugs which would normally be considered performance-enhancing, such as asthma inhalers. It is extraordinarily difficult to get a TUE for anabolic steroids, I don't know of a single case of someone managing it. However, when it comes to Master's sports, there are genuine medical uses for anabolic steroids, for example testosterone replacement therapy; a TUE for older people getting TRT is specifically excluded by the guidelines.

To the master's athlete with sarcopenia, loss of libido and depression, we say, "We have all sympathy for your condition, but if you treat it medically, you can no longer compete with us." Is this discrimination against older people? Is it gerontophobic? Is it failing to be inclusive? Are we being cruel in telling them that to compete they have to refuse treatment for their genuine medical condition? No: it's simply trying to ensure fairer competition.

It should be likewise with transwomen athletes. To say, "We have all sympathy for your condition, but if you treat it medically, you can no longer compete with us," is not bigoted or transphobic, or failing to be inclusive, nor are we being cruel in telling them to refuse treatment for their genuine medical condition; it's simply trying to ensure fairer competition.

The older person can refuse to treat their genuine medical needs and compete, or treat them and not compete. The transathlete should likewise be able to refuse to treat their genuine medical needs and compete, not treat them and not compete.

[Bando]

Yes.

It's worth noting that even the women competing in untested federations, their records are lower than the men of the same weight class of tested federations. As example, Chleo Van Wyk [https://www.instagram.com/chleo_v_wyk/?hl=en] was suspended for a positive doping test (anabolics) while lifting with Powerlifting Australia, which at the time was the IPF-affiliated federation in Australia. She subsequently "retired" from powerlifting (ie from PA - she still lifts competitively in untested PL) and gained 15kg of bodyweight, which you can see from her IG is largely lean mass gain. Her best total is 705 at 78.6kg. The best women's tested total in her weight class is Amanda Lawrence with 613kg, and men's is Russel Orhii with 833kg [http://goodlift.info/records.php?fd=0&ac=0&sx=M&eq=1]

That is, going through a masculine adolescence provides a greater advantage than unrestricted use of anabolic steroids.

When Laurel Hubbard competed in weightlifting, her competitors were overall not happy. So much so that the Australian Weightlifting Federation told its members that any negative public comment about this or similar issues would lead to their expulsion from the AWF. Australian Rules Football Women have also been told the same, and many other sports. Hubbar's home federation in NZ, their lifters didn't need to be told to be quiet because the NZ weightlifting stadium was paid for by her father, and she herself had been on the executive board of NZWL, which just after she left voted to let her compete in the women's division.

We don't hear the negative opinions of ciswomen athletes on this issue, because they have been silenced, usually officially through their sporting federations, and on top of that unofficially through the wokesters hunting them down on social media, or through knowing who pays for the stadium and the like.

Most ciswomen athletes do not want to compete against transwomen. More specifically, against people who've been through a masculine adolescence.

Consider that in tested sports, you can get a Therapeutic Use Exemption for medical use of drugs which would normally be considered performance-enhancing, such as asthma inhalers. It is extraordinarily difficult to get a TUE for anabolic steroids, I don't know of a single case of someone managing it. However, when it comes to Master's sports, there are genuine medical uses for anabolic steroids, for example testosterone replacement therapy; a TUE for older people getting TRT is specifically excluded by the guidelines.

To the master's athlete with sarcopenia, loss of libido and depression, we say, "We have all sympathy for your condition, but if you treat it medically, you can no longer compete with us." Is this discrimination against older people? Is it gerontophobic? Is it failing to be inclusive? Are we being cruel in telling them that to compete they have to refuse treatment for their genuine medical condition? No: it's simply trying to ensure fairer competition.

It should be likewise with transwomen athletes. To say, "We have all sympathy for your condition, but if you treat it medically, you can no longer compete with us," is not bigoted or transphobic, or failing to be inclusive, nor are we being cruel in telling them to refuse treatment for their genuine medical condition; it's simply trying to ensure fairer competition.

The older person can refuse to treat their genuine medical needs and compete, or treat them and not compete. The transathlete should likewise be able to refuse to treat their genuine medical needs and compete, not treat them and not compete.

This thread about USA, PL though. In the USA we have a system where a person who's affected by a policy can weigh in on the policy. Ladies?

See, no one cares

[Bando]

Google Jenae Marie Kroc.

Dude was a beast with a 2,551 equipped total in 220 class before he went trans.

He looks no different now as a "woman" than he did before. Just looks like a beast of a dude in women's clothing with a wig and makeup.

I follow some female powerlifters that accept him as a woman and assume they wouldn't mind competing against him....but I am sure there are some that would not. **** I wouldn't even want to complete against him/her/it. LOL.


Check out dude's IG:

https://www.instagram.com/janaemariekroc/


I admit this is an extreme case, but still......

There's always going to be outliers. Can't make policy on the extreme examples.

This thread reminds me of the picture of the 6 or 7 old white guys in suits signing some piece of USA regulation about Women's rights. Was literally like 2 years ago.

[Karl_Hungus]

There's always going to be outliers. Can't make policy on the extreme examples.

This thread reminds me of the picture of the 6 or 7 old white guys in suits signing some piece of USA regulation about Women's rights. Was literally like 2 years ago.

Do some googling. There are plenty of stories about women being unhappy that men are coming in and f'cking up their sport.

[Bando]

I bet if one did an anonymous poll of female athletes in any sport and asked them if they would be fine with trans women competing against them the results would be as expected, that most would not be ok with it, but in this climate of political correctness no one wants to come out and say publicly what they really think because they get branded as transphobic by the masses that have no dog in the fight.

We could ask Sabrina, she squats a few lbs more than me. She's a competitive powerlifter. My bet is she would say "bring it bitch" to anyone of any gender, gender identity, race, creed, color, legal status, age or sexual orientation. Same with Rheta or Becki. These gals literally do not need white knights, and don't GAF about larger femurs or whatever BS that is. They'll just get under the bar, day after day, getting stronger and stronger, while other people gripe about fairness on the interwebz.

[LWW]

I bet if one did an anonymous poll of female athletes in any sport and asked them if they would be fine with trans women competing against them the results would be as expected, that most would not be ok with it, but in this climate of political correctness no one wants to come out and say publicly what they really think because they get branded as transphobic by the masses that have no dog in the fight.

Right on, I train in a studio with some badass women, who lift more than most men, basically at this place, more women than men.....so I do get to hear what they are saying. It's all true to the above! They even talk about the women who take male hormones.

[Bando]

Do some googling.

This is exactly the issue.

I have 7 first place PL trophies in my basement. Only thing Ima google is how to get my 8th, not get all up in someone else's business.

[KyleAaron]

It is going even further than transgender. They are outright letting boys play in girls sports in HS. Boys are rolling over the girls in field hockey. One team (undefeated now of course) has season goals for/against of 173/3 Now!

https://turtleboysports.com/wayland-...o9q5dIsGdliPaI

They obviously don't have the Lopsided Scores Policy to protect them.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-...-much/11667252

[Bando]

In competitive powerlifting, which this thread is about, I would wager that there's maybe 5 people in the US born male that identify differently that actually have a distinct advantage worth worrying about.

I'll look at that cycling thing tomorrow FLEX.

[Karl_Hungus]

In competitive powerlifting, which this thread is about, I would wager that there's maybe 5 people in the US born male that identify differently that actually have a distinct advantage worth worrying about.

I'll look at that cycling thing tomorrow FLEX.

Ok, then let those 5 people compete in the men's division. Either way, somebody is going to be at a disadvantage -- seems reasonable to put 5 people at a disadvantage as opposed to every female athlete they compete against.

[NorwichGrad]

Ok, let's hear from them. So far the entire conversation is from men. I dunno if you ever met a female powerlifter, but by and large they are baddasses worthy of their own opinions.

Not an argument. Why do you want to hear from my female lifters? I already know they’re against the idea.

And why would you dismiss my beliefs? I am their coach, remember? Don’t you think I should have a say in the matter?

I train my lifters hard. Both genders. My lifters give it 100% and then some. How is it fair when my females train with all they got only to be beaten by a trans?

And you ask if I ever met a female powerlifter. Of course. I produced a young female PLer (who was a competitive weightlifter but did PL for fun) who set state record in all three lifts and set a world record on the deadlift in her class. The federation was RPS. Here’s proof.

https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...ad+powerlifter

There are only two genders. Why is it hard to understand?

[GrouchyUSMC]

[GrouchyUSMC]

Ok, let's hear from them. So far the entire conversation is from men. I dunno if you ever met a female powerlifter, but by and large they are baddasses worthy of their own opinions.

https://www.outsports.com/2019/5/6/1...ry-trans-usapl

During their first meet competing as a woman, they broke the squat record by 5kg, the bench record by 15kg, the deadlift record by over 15kg, and broke the total record by almost 100 pounds. I'm sure female powerlifters aren't happy about it either.