Reply
Page 11 of 11 FirstFirst ... 9 10 11
Results 301 to 303 of 303
  1. #301
    Devil's advocate GreatOldOne's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2013
    Posts: 31,314
    Rep Power: 61632
    GreatOldOne has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GreatOldOne has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GreatOldOne has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GreatOldOne has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GreatOldOne has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GreatOldOne has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GreatOldOne has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GreatOldOne has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GreatOldOne has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GreatOldOne has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) GreatOldOne has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    GreatOldOne is offline
    Originally Posted by hawkshade View Post
    To lose out on the $1000 a month, you'd have to spend $120k a year on luxury goods. And you worked for a bank? It's simple arithmetic bud.
    You don't know how much prices increase...it's going to be more than 10%, because items are made from components...there is a supply chain...it's all under the VAT. It's also not just fancy luxury items, but everything goods and services except unspecified essentials.

    The poor aren't just buying an xbox or something...their services are replaced by the dividend.

    I think that 1000 dollars will end up being like 500 or 600 dollars after prices change, and that's maybe the same or even less than the poor already get including services.

    How will it bankrupt small businesses if people will spend their money with their increased salary?
    What happens when people don't spend it? What if they finally service their debt? You think they won't?

    Or buy cheaper imports not produced under the VAT?

    Their margins are slim...they don't have an extra 10% and more to just eat. Neither do big companies.

    They'll have to pay workers less. And you end up with the dividend being worth nothing.

    In motha russia, the government owns everything. UBI + VAT is a completely different system. Nice try tho. Keep em coming.
    Ok, what happens when our exports drastically fall because now they're more expensive?

    We're not magically 10% less expensive than other countries.

    And what guarantees are there that the VAT is replaced by new purchases at a higher price?

    Who or what is making people spend their money at exactly the same pattern so that everything doesn't just fail when nobody ends up being able to afford the VAT?

    How screwed are we if 5-10% of people save their free money or throw it at their debt instead of buying stuff?

    What happens when all the rich people don't change their spending AT ALL and never repay the dividend they received?
    (oO) That is not dead which can eternal lie,
    /||\ And with strange aeons even death may die.
    Deamon flautists: http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=164323341

    Happy days to you and yours.
    Reply With Quote

  2. #302
    No Huevos katya422's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2011
    Location: United States
    Posts: 4,741
    Rep Power: 53315
    katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    katya422 is offline
    Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
    UBI is fine...I want people to be able to live well. Who doesn't want that?

    It's the VAT.

    I would like that we decrease military....we're not fighting aliens or anything...we're just being dumb and we never realized WW3 isn't happening.

    Too many countries have nukes and if someone shot one we'd all up and blow up the planet.
    You would rather pay for UBI with a cut in military spending? Okay. I mean maybe some kind of cut could be negotiated, but not enough to cover everything.

    Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
    You don't know how much prices increase...it's going to be more than 10%, because items are made from components...there is a supply chain...it's all under the VAT. It's also not just fancy luxury items, but everything goods and services except unspecified essentials.

    The poor aren't just buying an xbox or something...their services are replaced by the dividend.

    I think that 1000 dollars will end up being like 500 or 600 dollars after prices change, and that's maybe the same or even less than the poor already get including services.
    This is highly unlikely. The VAT will not immediately effect the cost of housing which is the biggest expense for most people, low income or no. Poor people are probably driving older cars too, not buying new ones. Yes, if services were included that might have some impact, but I haven't read anything about this including services.

    What happens when people don't spend it? What if they finally service their debt? You think they won't?

    Or buy cheaper imports not produced under the VAT?
    In what world would this be a bad thing, or a problem? If people pay off their debt and then can save some capital of their own wouldn't that be good?

    Their margins are slim...they don't have an extra 10% and more to just eat. Neither do big companies.

    They'll have to pay workers less. And you end up with the dividend being worth nothing.
    Many businesses do have a slim margin. It does not follow from that though that a 10% VAT = total margin of business. And there should be more money flowing through the economy overall so maybe some will have a smaller margin, but with higher volume of sales.

    Hey, they might even have such a higher volume of sales they can give their employees raises.

    Ok, what happens when our exports drastically fall because now they're more expensive?

    We're not magically 10% less expensive than other countries.
    Um, other countries already do have a VAT and also compete in international trade.

    And what guarantees are there that the VAT is replaced by new purchases at a higher price?
    Can I buy a vowel? Not sure that I follow this, but again if money is distributed more evenly via this dividend then overall consumption would be expected to increase somewhat.

    Who or what is making people spend their money at exactly the same pattern so that everything doesn't just fail when nobody ends up being able to afford the VAT?
    Some people could change their spending habits (e.g. buy more used goods), however it is very unlikely to be on such a scale that VAT isn't adequately funded.

    How screwed are we if 5-10% of people save their free money or throw it at their debt instead of buying stuff?

    What happens when all the rich people don't change their spending AT ALL and never repay the dividend they received?
    Not screwed in any way at all. People can do whatever they want with the money. It is perfectly okay if the rich people do not change their spending and there was never any expectation that they would "repay" the dividend, just that they will pay VAT when they make purchases.

    I suppose in some extreme low probability scenario everyone could stop purchasing new merchandise and we could just repair/reuse/recycle to avoid paying the tax man.

    Would that be so terrible?
    INTP Crew
    Inattentive ADD Crew
    Mom That Miscs Crew
    Reply With Quote

  3. #303
    No Huevos katya422's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2011
    Location: United States
    Posts: 4,741
    Rep Power: 53315
    katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) katya422 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    katya422 is offline
    Originally Posted by davik View Post
    where are they gonna get the money from lol. its 2.5-3 trillion a year and the us budget is 4 trillion currently
    Originally Posted by BHall1991 View Post
    Where did the 14 Trillion we've given banks and Wallstreet since 2009 come from?
    I think the people most bothered by this are ones that don't see money as a social construct and think it is a real thing with real value like a television or a ham sandwich. Most of it isn't even printed any more, it's just ones and zeroes in computers and the people with the power can add more as they want so long as the rest of us continue to go along with it.

    Originally Posted by miscinbro View Post
    That's the entire idea of UBI - Universal Basic Income. The whole point is everyone gets the same amount. Now I know you think we shouldn't even have taxes, or something like that, but assuming that's not going to happen wouldn't you prefer a system where everyone got the same assistance instead of a tangled maze of entitlements linked to God knows how many factors for unequal distribution?
    Yes, that is why I wold think that some people on the right could get behind it. For people that choose UBI there is no incentive to work fewer hours, no incentive to stay single instead of getting married, and no incentive to have more children.

    It could greatly reduce dependency because for most people it wouldn't pay to try and stay poor.

    AFAIK SNAP, aka:food stamps, is the biggest program and the maximum monthly benefit for a household of 1 is $192. The average overall is more like $133.

    Cash welfare is very limited, and short term too.

    Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
    Because it is the highest amount that can be distributed based on Yangs method of paying for it.

    If he was getting the UBI by printing money that's where this would be a legitimate question.

    I'm sure it's been said before, but its not meant to be a liveable wage, its suppose to be enough to get a family on their feet during hard times. It will help people get out of crippling debt (not just debt associated with student loans) or to have the means to move away from a toxic work environment where its dreadful soulless work, but you never make enough to be able to afford to leave. It's meant to encourage people to pursue their own endeavors. So that person that got a degree in "basket weaving" can actually open a basket weaving shop which allows them to do what they enjoy for a living without worrying about being thrown into a mount of debt if the venture fails. Less stress means less sickness, which means fewer hospital visits and fewer people on anxiety/anti depressants, and people that are in good health and feel good about themselves are more likely to be more charitable and generous to the less fortunate.

    I know it sounds like a bunch of hippie nonsense, but It essentially perpetuates "goodness" throughout society.
    Yes, it would give people a "floor". Hard right misc seems to think that if people don't have money then they just go live on the street until they die and that's it. The thing is it actually costs more money to police the homeless than to house them:

    Some early research on this produced truly mind-boggling results. A study in Central Florida indicated that the region was spending 3 times as much on policing nonviolent rule-breaking of the homeless as it would cost to give them all housing and a caseworker.

    So if these homeless people could pool together their $1000 checks to sleep inside? Hello cost savings for local governments.

    Originally Posted by BalkanPrince View Post
    Andrew Yang assumes that companies automate jobs just out of habit? Andrew seems to think that the march of automation will continue so that companies can be innovative for the sake of giving Americans 1,000 dollars per month?

    He seems to be confused as to why companies automate in the first place. They are spending money on innovation and automation in order to cut costs and raise money, not give it away.

    The only thing this ridiculous man and his policies would ensure is that companies lose all incentive to innovate and hence fall behind in this globally competitive marketplace.
    Gee, I don't know Dave. I mean automating would save/earn us an extra $100K a year, but that pesky 10% VAT means we will have to pay 10% more for the equipment than we would otherwise have to pay. Guess we should just keep on doing the same ol' same ol' 'cause the VAT makes it stupid for us to pursue profitability by investing in our business.
    INTP Crew
    Inattentive ADD Crew
    Mom That Miscs Crew
    Reply With Quote

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts