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  1. #1
    Registered User 84creative's Avatar
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    Pondering (MEV) Minimum Effective Volume

    I've come across the concept of Minimum Effective Volume from Mike Israetel recently. I've been out of it for over 10 years and just started working out again 18 weeks ago.

    I've started with 10 sets for chest/back and 8 sets for biceps/triceps and was planning to add a set every 4 weeks to see how many sets I need to get results. At the moment I'm growing slowly so unable to tell what's working. The one thing that is increasing is my ability to lift heavier each week but I'm wondering whether that's just muscle memory from being in the gym over 10 years ago.

    One idea I've come across is that sets can be viewed as a dial, if you do 10 you'll get results, 12 you get slightly better results than 10, 14 you get better results than 12 and so on.

    Makes me wonder whether I should start at my Minimum Effective Volume and stay there for as long as I can while making gains or whether I increase my sets now to make the best gains possible.

    How do you guys pick the number of sets you do and do you often wonder whether you should be doing more to get better gains?
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    For me it is add volume when you stall. If you are gaining muscle and/or gaining strength then I would continue with the program and when the progress stalls that is when I would add volume/more sets.

    Now personally I do ramp volume/number of sets within a meso cycle so after a deload I will increase a few sets over 4 to 6 weeks to end that block with more volume than I started with. And then deload again and start back over with a new block. It is definitely not necessary to program this way but for me it keeps it interesting and seems to work well.
    Bodybuilding is much more than an hour in the gym a few days a week---it's a lifestyle that changes all your perceptions about how to live, eat, and rest. It feeds the mind as much (and sometimes more so) than the body.
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  3. #3
    temporary illusion supramax's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 84creative View Post
    I've come across the concept of Minimum Effective Volume from Mike Israetel recently. I've been out of it for over 10 years and just started working out again 18 weeks ago.

    I've started with 10 sets for chest/back and 8 sets for biceps/triceps and was planning to add a set every 4 weeks to see how many sets I need to get results. At the moment I'm growing slowly so unable to tell what's working. The one thing that is increasing is my ability to lift heavier each week but I'm wondering whether that's just muscle memory from being in the gym over 10 years ago.

    One idea I've come across is that sets can be viewed as a dial, if you do 10 you'll get results, 12 you get slightly better results than 10, 14 you get better results than 12 and so on.

    Makes me wonder whether I should start at my Minimum Effective Volume and stay there for as long as I can while making gains or whether I increase my sets now to make the best gains possible.

    How do you guys pick the number of sets you do and do you often wonder whether you should be doing more to get better gains?
    How many reps are in your sets?
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  4. #4
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    For me, rep range depends upon the muscle group, so the reps vary quite a bit.

    But, if I do 3 to 5 reps per set for say squats, I do more sets such as 8 working sets compared to bicep curls at 10 to 12 reps for 4 sets.

    What is optimal for me might not be for you. Too many variables that make us all different.

    Obviously I don't follow a certain program. I just try to progress.
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    How do you guys pick the number of sets you do and do you often wonder whether you should be doing more to get better gains?


    Well i have experimented over time and figured out, not only what works, but what allows me to enjoy going to the gym. I started by looking at what machines are available for a particular body part. Then i decided which machines/exercises put the muscle into unusual angles and positions that feel hard to do. Then i did 4 sets on EACH machine until the body part felt "fried/tired". Then i experimented with poundage and reps until i hit a "sweet spot".

    It takes time to figure it out but you will.
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    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by x-trainer ben View Post
    How do you guys pick the number of sets you do and do you often wonder whether you should be doing more to get better gains?


    Well i have experimented over time and figured out, not only what works, but what allows me to enjoy going to the gym. I started by looking at what machines are available for a particular body part. Then i decided which machines/exercises put the muscle into unusual angles and positions that feel hard to do. Then i did 4 sets on EACH machine until the body part felt "fried/tired". Then i experimented with poundage and reps until i hit a "sweet spot".

    It takes time to figure it out but you will.
    Exactly, Ben. It can take years of trial and error and experimenting.
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  7. #7
    Registered User Garage Rat's Avatar
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    You have to find out what works for you and it may take some time if your a natural trainer.
    It's a lot of trial and error and many things work but not for ever.
    Keep a training log if your not already.
    Record your sessions.
    Take pics month to month and compare to check any progress.
    Minimum effective volume may be a very individual thing.
    Mike Mentzer's heavy Duty program is very low volume and very high intensity that has worked for many people.
    So you need to examine your intensity on your sets and determine if your training hard enough to inhibit muscle growth.
    Of course diet and rest are just as important.
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    Originally Posted by Garage Rat View Post
    You have to find out what works for you and it may take some time if your a natural trainer.
    It's a lot of trial and error and many things work but not for ever.
    Keep a training log if your not already.
    Record your sessions.
    Take pics month to month and compare to check any progress.
    Minimum effective volume may be a very individual thing.
    Mike Mentzer's heavy Duty program is very low volume and very high intensity that has worked for many people.
    So you need to examine your intensity on your sets and determine if your training hard enough to inhibit muscle growth.
    Of course diet and rest are just as important.
    I found that a low volume routine worked much better for me, mentally and physically. I like quick 45 minute gym sessions, but I go six days a week (so, low volume per session I guess). At any rate, I stay fairly consistent this way and I am pretty happy with size gains.
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    Stay with what works until it doesn't. Some of things never work. Just keep trying and be consistent.
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  10. #10
    Registered User 84creative's Avatar
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    I'm definitely inclined to stay where I am while I'm making progress and then add a set when gaining stalls. As most of you have said it's definitely trial and error to see what works for you and staying consistent.
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  11. #11
    Registered User 84creative's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    How many reps are in your sets?
    Chest: 10 sets
    Exercise 1: 5 to 10 rep range
    Exercise 2: 8 to 14 rep range

    Back: 8 sets
    Exercise 1: 9 to 13 rep range
    Exercise 2: 4 to 9 rep range

    Biceps: 8 sets
    Exercise 1: 3 to 6 range
    Exercise 2: 4 to 8 rep range

    Triceps: 7 sets
    Exercise 1: 4 to 6 rep range
    Exercise 2: 7 to 9 rep range
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by 84creative View Post
    I'm definitely inclined to stay where I am while I'm making progress ... ...
    I've found the expression "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" to help a lot in life, not just gym
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  13. #13
    Registered User 84creative's Avatar
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    Thanks guys.
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  14. #14
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    Originally Posted by 84creative View Post
    Chest: 10 sets
    Exercise 1: 5 to 10 rep range
    Exercise 2: 8 to 14 rep range

    Back: 8 sets
    Exercise 1: 9 to 13 rep range
    Exercise 2: 4 to 9 rep range

    Biceps: 8 sets
    Exercise 1: 3 to 6 range
    Exercise 2: 4 to 8 rep range

    Triceps: 7 sets
    Exercise 1: 4 to 6 rep range
    Exercise 2: 7 to 9 rep range
    Hold on there, fella!
    Rep range just tells me the % of 1 RM, ie. 7-9 rep range is around 75-80% and 5-10 rep range is between around 75-90 ish %.
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  15. #15
    Registered User 84creative's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by supramax View Post
    Hold on there, fella!
    Rep range just tells me the % of 1 RM, ie. 7-9 rep range is around 75-80% and 5-10 rep range is between around 75-90 ish %.
    This is the routine I did training each muscle group twice per week. I started off with 3 reps in reserve for each set in week one and finished with sets taken to failure in week 4.

    Dumbell Bench Press
    38kg dumbbells
    10 (1RIR)
    10 (1RIR)
    8 (1RIR)
    6 (1RIR)
    7 (0RIR)
    41 reps

    Single Arm Lying Tricep Extension
    20.5kg dumbbells
    7 (1RIR)
    7 (0RIR)
    5 (0IR)
    19 reps

    Lateral Raises
    7.5kg dumbbells
    20 (0RIR)
    18 (0RIR)
    16 (0RIR)
    14 (0RIR)
    68 reps in total

    Chin ups
    Bodyweight
    10 (1RIR)
    8 (0RIR)
    5 (0RIR)
    5 (0RIR)
    28 reps

    Dumbbell Bicep Curls
    21.5kg dumbbells
    6 (0RIR)
    4 (0RIR)
    3 (0RIR)
    3 (0RIR)
    20 reps

    Reverse Grip Dumbbell Bench Press
    30.5kg dumbbells
    14 (1RIR)
    13 (0RIR)
    9 (0RIR) down from 12 (1RIR) with 29kg
    6 (0RIR) down from 9 (1RIR) with 29kg
    7 (0RIR)
    49 reps

    Lying Barbell Tricep Extension
    36.5kg barbell
    11 (0RIR)
    10 (0RIR)
    6 (0RIR)
    5 (0RIR)
    32 reps

    Dumbbell Raise (Dumbbell resting over elbow)
    9kg dumbbells
    24 (2RIR)
    24 (2RIR)
    23 (2RIR)
    20 (2RIR)
    68 reps in total

    Bent over rows
    30.5kg each
    14 (0RIR)
    13 (0RIR)
    10 (0RIR)
    10 (0RIR)
    47 reps

    Hammer Curl
    20.5kg dumbbells
    7 (0RIR)
    5 (0RIR)
    5 (0RIR)
    4 (0RIR)
    21 reps

    Bent Over Row (Elbows out)
    13.5kg dumbbells
    25 (2RIR)
    25 (1RIR)
    20 (0RIR)
    20 (0RIR)
    90 reps
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    Originally Posted by 84creative View Post
    This is the routine I did training each muscle group twice per week. I started off with 3 reps in reserve for each set in week one and finished with sets taken to failure in week 4.

    Dumbell Bench Press
    38kg dumbbells
    10 (1RIR)
    10 (1RIR)
    8 (1RIR)
    6 (1RIR)
    7 (0RIR)
    41 reps

    Single Arm Lying Tricep Extension
    20.5kg dumbbells
    7 (1RIR)
    7 (0RIR)
    5 (0IR)
    19 reps

    Lateral Raises
    7.5kg dumbbells
    20 (0RIR)
    18 (0RIR)
    16 (0RIR)
    14 (0RIR)
    68 reps in total

    Chin ups
    Bodyweight
    10 (1RIR)
    8 (0RIR)
    5 (0RIR)
    5 (0RIR)
    28 reps

    Dumbbell Bicep Curls
    21.5kg dumbbells
    6 (0RIR)
    4 (0RIR)
    3 (0RIR)
    3 (0RIR)
    20 reps

    Reverse Grip Dumbbell Bench Press
    30.5kg dumbbells
    14 (1RIR)
    13 (0RIR)
    9 (0RIR) down from 12 (1RIR) with 29kg
    6 (0RIR) down from 9 (1RIR) with 29kg
    7 (0RIR)
    49 reps

    Lying Barbell Tricep Extension
    36.5kg barbell
    11 (0RIR)
    10 (0RIR)
    6 (0RIR)
    5 (0RIR)
    32 reps

    Dumbbell Raise (Dumbbell resting over elbow)
    9kg dumbbells
    24 (2RIR)
    24 (2RIR)
    23 (2RIR)
    20 (2RIR)
    68 reps in total

    Bent over rows
    30.5kg each
    14 (0RIR)
    13 (0RIR)
    10 (0RIR)
    10 (0RIR)
    47 reps

    Hammer Curl
    20.5kg dumbbells
    7 (0RIR)
    5 (0RIR)
    5 (0RIR)
    4 (0RIR)
    21 reps

    Bent Over Row (Elbows out)
    13.5kg dumbbells
    25 (2RIR)
    25 (1RIR)
    20 (0RIR)
    20 (0RIR)
    90 reps
    "This is the routine I did... " No squats, no hinges, no loaded carries... ? Surely, you only posted the 'upper' part of your bodybuilder workout. I'm into short and extreme, myself.
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    it sort of depends upon your overall approach. I see you mentioning adding 1 set after 4 weeks and I dont see you mentioning deloads.

    If you want to work out for months on end without any deloads then, yeah, dont add much volume lol.

    If you want to push things a bit harder then youd probably do something like 4 or 5 weeks and then a deload week. Over the course of these 4-5 weeks youd gradually increase volume. The way I am currently doing it is to pick 3 bodyparts (for me:quads/calves/delts) and more aggressively push the volume on those, increasing weekly, and then the other bodyparts increase more slowly or just stay around MEV

    how to find MEV. Pick a number of sets per week at a certain intensity and see how it feels. Does it feel like a decent workout? u get sore?

    you have seen all of these vids, right?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrXh...37ziG1tB4v8Q77
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    Consistency and trial and error are the greatest things you can do. I cant work out like Lou Ferrigno but I can take some of his ideas. But for me and my disabilities I have used experimentation, consistency and trial and error to become the best me. Guess what? That is Okay.
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