"Taxation is theft". Can someone explain this to me?

[BFast55]

It's a little heavy with the hyperbole, but the principle is basically the same. In both cases, force is applied by one entity to extract wealth from another.

[LFAesthetics]

Income tax is theft, I worked for a wage i earned and it's garnished before it ever gets to my pocket. Taxes such as a sales tax or a VAT i don't consider to be theft because it its entirely your choice to purchase these things so you are in essence agreeing to be taxed.

Id rather the federal government receive its tax revenues based on much higher sales taxing than the current system where I give 20-40 cents on a dollar before i even get the option. I believe if i'm not mistaken this was also the founding fathers ideals, using tariffs and sales taxing for federal revenues, NOT garnishing wages.

I mean they had to amend the constitution to allow it..

the federal government was not supposed to be the levier of welfare programs it was to defend the union and provide public infrastructure/security. the states should have maintained autonomy on which taxes were applicable based on the individual needs of the states.

Bottom line is the federal government can't do anything right, it's overburdened with administrative costs and corruption and nobody whose in office is in it for the people any more, the less power they have the less damage they can do. Handing them money to solve problems has never ever worked the way we want it to and it ends up being squandered.

The future insolvency of the SS fund is a perfect example of why you don't give them money to manage, people think they're going to use the free college fund or the medicare for all fund appropriately? Please, it will be just another discretionary slush fund for them to borrow against for new wars, or political favors.

[knightofday]

It's a matter of taxation without representation and what benefit do you receive.

Does sending a portion of your tax dollars to other countries benefit you? How about your tax dollars being spent on benefits for illegal immigrants? Or your tax dollars being spent on anything else you do not agree with.

^^^^^^^^ Theyre taking directly from us and funding a billion causes not necessary, that they choose that helps THEIR political causes, and there are just way too many fuking taxes. They taxes us at every transaction, every turn just to burn it or worse yet use it to further weaken our country while they get rich simultaneously. It is theft IMO, beyond ridiculous.

Tax only what is necessary for roads fir dept etc and every tax payer INSTANTLY gets a lifestyle upgrade from the extra money in their pocket.

My biggest gripe is INCOME TAX, theyre taking money I worked for before I even touch it!!!!!!!!

[jlick]

Say you have $100 in your pocket. I come up to you and take $30 out of your pocket without your permission and by force. is that theft?

[RayBcomplex]

It depends on how big you want the government to be and what services you want it to provide. Anything in excess of that is theft. The problem is other people have a say in it, too, and theirs may differ from yours.

[Stizzel]

Say you have $100 in your pocket. I come up to you and take $30 out of your pocket without your permission and by force. is that theft?

B...b...but the roads....

[Omnivium]

Theft = someone stealing from you

Taxation = the government stealing from you

Therefore taxation = theft

This theft is probably necessary for a functioning society, but it could be done a lot better than it currently is

[jlick]

B...b...but the roads....

i can hear the crickets on all muhhh roads

[Stizzel]

Theft = someone stealing from you

Taxation = the government stealing from you

Therefore taxation = theft

This theft is probably necessary for a functioning society, but it could be done a lot better than it currently is

Nah, its not necessary. But it is what we are used to.

[isingmodel]

By definition not theft - theft is unlawful taking of property. The determination of what is rightful property and what constitutes intrusion onto said property is ultimately determined by the governance structure in the given society you are in, which has the power to enforce said system of governance upon people.

Now you can of course argue that certain levels of taxation are immoral or unjustified, but again, that's separate from theft.

[z4v4]

The way you pay for things without resorting to theft is via trade

Someone needs to tell her that she's free to renounce citizenship and expat to another country, otherwise she should suck it up and pay up like the rest of us US citizens.

[z4v4]

Income tax is theft, I worked for a wage i earned and it's garnished before it ever gets to my pocket. Taxes such as a sales tax or a VAT i don't consider to be theft because it its entirely your choice to purchase these things so you are in essence agreeing to be taxed.

When you filled out your W9 and gave it to your employer, that was tacit agreement to the partial "garnishment" of your wages in return for employment. You had every right to deny the request for your SSN, and they have every right to deny your employment.

[isingmodel]

I'll agree with some of the posters here that income tax is not the best way to do things. Henry George/Thomas Paine's Land Value Tax is what we'd use in an ideal society

[Stizzel]

Someone needs to tell her that she's free to renounce citizenship and expat to another country, otherwise she should suck it up and pay up like the rest of us US citizens.

Still not consent

[z4v4]

My biggest gripe is INCOME TAX, theyre taking money I worked for before I even touch it!!!!!!!!

Lol, that's your choice, son. Work for yourself and all the money goes through you first (which you would probably hate making ES payments even more than withholding).

[jlick]

When you filled out your W9 and gave it to your employer, that was tacit agreement to the partial "garnishment" of your wages in return for employment. You had every right to deny the request for your SSN, and they have every right to deny your employment.

that would make sense except 1099 gets taxed as well. and also if you own your own business.

also, this:

Say you have $100 in your pocket. I come up to you and take $30 out of your pocket without your permission and by force. is that theft?

[z4v4]

Still not consent

When she handed her W9 to her employer, she consented to her wages being partially withheld in exchange for employment.

[z4v4]

that would make sense except 1099 gets taxed as well. and also if you own your own business.

Again, in order to get a 1099, you agreed to give your W9 to the person with whom you're contracting with in order for them to claim your wages on their taxes. It's tacit agreement.

also, this:

Say you have $100 in your pocket. I come up to you and take $30 out of your pocket without your permission and by force. is that theft?

That's theft.

[scheal]

Someone needs to tell her that she's free to renounce citizenship and expat to another country, otherwise she should suck it up and pay up like the rest of us US citizens.

Maybe she doesn't like her tax money going to pay for liberal policies that you support like giving free crack to drug addicts, or free housing to drug addicts. Liberal cry babies like yourself try to make yourselves look good by spending other peoples money on **** that does not benefit the taxpayer in any way

In before

Yes son

no son

listen son

blah blah son

liberal rhetoric son

[z4v4]

Maybe she doesn't like her tax money going to pay for liberal policies that you support like giving free crack to drug addicts, or free housing to drug addicts. Liberal cry babies like yourself try to make yourselves look good by spending other peoples money on **** that does not benefit the taxpayer in any way

In before

Yes son

no son

listen son

blah blah son

liberal rhetoric son

Son, I don't agree with what my tax money is used for either, but it's not theft.

You guys must be the biggest fukking cucks if you think your employer is stealing from you and yet you still show up each day, week after week, year after year, and you keep your mouth shut and take what they give you.

[Stizzel]

When she handed her W9 to her employer, she consented to her wages being partially withheld in exchange for employment.

A w9 is signed under duress so it is not consent. (Its also a disclosure rather than a contract so that is a silly argument)

If you dont complete a w9 and dont have taxes taken out every pay cycle you'll just have to pay with your 1040

[z4v4]

A w9 is signed under duress so it is not consent. (Its also a disclosure rather than a contract so that is a silly argument)

If you dont complete a w9 and dont have taxes taken out every pay cycle you'll just have to pay with your 1040

Lol, signed under duress. You don't have to fill out a w9 nor give a ssn to any party requesting your services.

[Stizzel]

Lol, signed under duress. You don't have to fill out a w9 nor give a ssn to any party requesting your services.

If you don't complete the W9 you still have to pay your taxes, and if you don't pay your taxes you are visited by men with guns. Anything you sign under armed threat is signed under duress and does not constitute consent. And again, a W9 is just a disclosure, not an agreement so I'm not sure what your point is.

[Austanian]

Nah, its not necessary. But it is what we are used to.

It is necessary because with out them someone will conquer you and then make it necessary.

Tragedy of the commons and free loading is a real thing. Forcing compliance is the only way to defend against those that are already forcing compliance.

In this case choice is an illusion.

[Stizzel]

It is necessary because with out them someone will conquer you and then make it necessary.

Tragedy of the commons and free loading is a real thing. Forcing compliance is the only way to defend against those that are already forcing compliance.

In this case choice is an illusion.

I can pay for protection without being taxed so your comment doesnt make a lot of sense.

[z4v4]

If you don't complete the W9 you still have to pay your taxes, and if you don't pay your taxes you are visited by men with guns. Anything you sign under armed threat is signed under duress and does not constitute consent. And again, a W9 is just a disclosure, not an agreement so I'm not sure what your point is.

Yes, you have to pay taxes on earned income in the US - it is a condition required to work in the US, and by providing your SNN to your employer you tacitly agreed to that condition (hence why people fill out their W9 rather than turn down a job).

[JoshSP1985]

More specifically income tax is theft

[Stizzel]

Yes, you have to pay taxes on earned income in the US - it is a condition required to work in the US, and by providing your SNN to your employer you tacitly agreed to that condition (hence why people fill out their W9 rather than turn down a job).

You might have a point if it was possible to get a job and decline to give money to the government without having armed federal marshals show up at your door

[z4v4]

You might have a point if it was possible to get a job and decline to give money to the government without having armed federal marshals show up at your door

You're not required by anyone to get a job - that was your choice, and you chose it full well knowing you'd have to pay taxes.

[Stizzel]

You're not required by anyone to get a job - that was your choice, and you chose it full well knowing you'd have to pay taxes.

True, but knowing my consent will be violated doesnt change the fact