Dead lift grip strength

[induced_drag]

For those that want 'science' about why mixed grip is a worse exercise.

http://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewco...ses;comparison

Straps all the way. I have never failed a (non strap) deadlift because I could not hold the weight. However, I ripped and ton callouses right off my hand trying to be stupid and repping 585.

As I said....anything over 2 reps was staps always DOH. People who speak in absolutes about preaching things like it is not a 'real' deadlift unless you ditch the straps probably dont lift much.

Competition is one thing. Sure....train your singles mixed. But 90+% of my deadlift work over the years was with straps and it never hurt me switching over for a comp.

[shaneinga]

what do you mean by "power lifter"? going to meets? im wanting to get stronger, but not compete.

If you are not competing than using straps doesn't matter. If you do compete, they do matter as they are not allowed.

[JeremyM07201978]

For those that want 'science' about why mixed grip is a worse exercise.

http://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewco...ses;comparison

Straps all the way. I have never failed a (non strap) deadlift because I could not hold the weight. However, I ripped and ton callouses right off my hand trying to be stupid and repping 585.

As I said....anything over 2 reps was staps always DOH. People who speak in absolutes about preaching things like it is not a 'real' deadlift unless you ditch the straps probably dont lift much.

Competition is one thing. Sure....train your singles mixed. But 90+% of my deadlift work over the years was with straps and it never hurt me switching over for a comp.

Good info! Thanks for sharing. I do still think I'm alright with mixed grip and switching hands frequently, but you are well above my working weight, so it may just be that I am inexperienced. I am always trying to stay cognizant of any and all safety aspects as I increase weights, so glad to have that information.

FWIW, I have people telling me I should use straps from time to time where I work out so maybe I just need to stop being hard-headed and try again. I did have limited success with hook grip but think my hands are too small to set it up properly...not sure on that, my thumb always slips out though.

Thanks.

[PhantomMaxx]

I almost feel there is a genetic aspect to this grip issue. Before I competed in Powerlifting, I had a difficult time teaching myself how to deadlift. Keeping a grip on the bar became unbearable as the numbers went up. A trainer at my gym said because of my small hands (I'm 5' 2") I should use straps to train. All was great, I got stronger and had no more grip issues, drops, or torn skin – thanks to the straps. Then I met a Powerlifting coach and joined his team, he taught me mix grip and bar placement in the hand. I used caulk and alternated mix grip on every set and ditched the straps. Now even with 430 lbs. on the bar it feels secure, and the grip is no way the limiting factor. I respect the opinions of people on this thread, and can accept that we can physiologically develop differently, but even with my hand being only 6.5 inches from wrist to middle finger tip, I can pull decent weight with my posterior chain giving out before my grip. That being said, had I not gotten into Powerlifting and "forced" to DL mixed grip I'd still being using straps. I do realize with the supinated hand on the mix grip, some people may experience more tension because of the rotation and some people it's nothing.

[KidFreeze]

I almost feel there is a genetic aspect to this grip issue. Before I competed in Powerlifting, I had a difficult time teaching myself how to deadlift. Keeping a grip on the bar became unbearable as the numbers went up. A trainer at my gym said because of my small hands (I'm 5' 2") I should use straps to train. All was great, I got stronger and had no more grip issues, drops, or torn skin – thanks to the straps. Then I met a Powerlifting coach and joined his team, he taught me mix grip and bar placement in the hand. I used caulk and alternated mix grip on every set and ditched the straps. Now even with 430 lbs. on the bar it feels secure, and the grip is no way the limiting factor. I respect the opinions of people on this thread, and can accept that we can physiologically develop differently, but even with my hand being only 6.5 inches from wrist to middle finger tip, I can pull decent weight with my posterior chain giving out before my grip. That being said, had I not gotten into Powerlifting and "forced" to DL mixed grip I'd still being using straps. I do realize with the supinated hand on the mix grip, some people may experience more tension because of the rotation and some people it's nothing.

That's awesome and inspiring.

[KidFreeze]

3 x 6 this morning

135 x 6 - warmup
225 x 6
245 x 6
Video is last set at 275 x 6 with mixed grip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rF9_2e5SK5o

[MalachiB1]

here is my 270 both over hand.

https: // youtu.be/VzaEkDgqQ5U

[KidFreeze]

here is my 270 both over hand.

https: // youtu.be/VzaEkDgqQ5U

Nice! Matched grip is the goal for me moving forward, mixed just feels weird, and can screw up the shoulders from the unbalanced leverage.

[MalachiB1]

3 x 6 this morning

135 x 6 - warmup
225 x 6
245 x 6
Video is last set at 275 x 6 with mixed grip.

video

you too man! awesome job!

i see a drumset in the back ground. yours? (if so, i also play the drums, and after looking at the "hook grip" im not sure i want hand like Mr. Rip himself. would not be good for the drums LOL)

[KidFreeze]

you too man! awesome job!

i see a drumset in the back ground. yours? (if so, i also play the drums, and after looking at the "hook grip" im not sure i want hand like Mr. Rip himself. would not be good for the drums LOL)

Yes that is my kit, it's a Pearl kit that I got back in Middle school. I still mess around from time to time. That's cool you play as well. No doubt, we need are fingers!

[bamazav]

For those that want 'science' about why mixed grip is a worse exercise.

http://uknowledge.uky.edu/cgi/viewco...ses;comparison

Straps all the way. I have never failed a (non strap) deadlift because I could not hold the weight. However, I ripped and ton callouses right off my hand trying to be stupid and repping 585.

As I said....anything over 2 reps was staps always DOH. People who speak in absolutes about preaching things like it is not a 'real' deadlift unless you ditch the straps probably dont lift much.

Competition is one thing. Sure....train your singles mixed. But 90+% of my deadlift work over the years was with straps and it never hurt me switching over for a comp.

If you are not competing than using straps doesn't matter. If you do compete, they do matter as they are not allowed.

I would agree with both of these guys. My approach is starting with your goal. If you are wanting to compete, you do have to do some training without straps, but you do not have to avoid straps ( I use Cobra Grips instead of straps). I have had success with using my grips during training and then going without straps a few weeks before the meet to get used to the feel. Like ID, my grip has never failed me for a single pull.

If you have no desire to compete and your goal is to get stronger, why not use the straps unless your goal is a great grip.

[jademonkey]

Out of curiosity, is there such a thing like gymnastics grips but for lifting?

Edit - a quick google search turns up lots of things called "gymnastics grips" for lifting that are not at all gymnastics grips. They just have something covering the palm but no dowel at the ends of the fingers.

[BuckTheBeast]

Grip muscles are small and much more delicate than all the large muscles working out in deadlifts. Plus grip muscles are used in many many exercises. In the past personally ive over trained my grip muscles and killed my wrist and forearms where I had to take off. I highly suggest using straps. I use grip on my warm up dead lifts and thats it. I strap on DL and I strap on a few other exercises like weighted pull ups. These arent grip exercises so killing your grip on multiple work out days and exercises is dumb. Do you do 5 types of bench presses every single work out? Probably not. That is essentially what you are doing to your grip muscles if you never strap.

[willybrokeback]

Has anyone had any issues with straps? I was doing heavy farmers walks quite a bit and I was using straps so I could go longer. Then I started getting this weird shooting pain from the inside of my right wrist to the two big knuckles (pointer finger and middle finger). Its gotten to the point that I can't put the straps on anymore without aggravating it to the point I have to stop. Possibly this is just one of those weird getting old pains I seem to get every so often.

[mtpockets]

Has anyone had any issues with straps? I was doing heavy farmers walks quite a bit and I was using straps so I could go longer. Then I started getting this weird shooting pain from the inside of my right wrist to the two big knuckles (pointer finger and middle finger). Its gotten to the point that I can't put the straps on anymore without aggravating it to the point I have to stop. Possibly this is just one of those weird getting old pains I seem to get every so often.

Have you tried versa grips? I find them much better than straps.


As far as strapping up when your grip fails, do it. No point in denying your back training because of a weak grip. You will need to work on that grip, but not at the expense of your back training.

[OldFartTom]

I've found that as an unathletic office worker I just don't have the grip I want. My 1 rep double overhand no straps no chalk starts to fail at about double-bodyweight. I know that straps and chalk are both important training tools and use for DL, but I'd like to have better than my current **** grip. Unsurprisingly I find monkey bars challenging as all bodyweight on one hand is similar to double bodyweight weight with 2 hands for deadlift, although a little easier for whatever reason.

Just lifting more helps massively at first but that seems to plateau, Captains of Crush grippers help a bit (not that I'm any good at them, but better through casual practice) but the carry over from grippers to deadlift grip is lower than I'd hoped, for me anyway.

Who has really great grip? Powerlifters, gymnasts, strongman, arm wrestlers, rock climbers and others. I'll exclude for now arm wrestlers as they require a more crushing strength than just holding (maybe Captains of Crush is better for them?) but I was wondering what can we learn from climbers?

At first rock climbing and deadlift look so different, but I think there is far more similarity then difference. Sure the climbing grip is more open position and maybe easier on thumbs, but you've got the same kind of maintaining hand position - resisting the hand opening. Rock climbers are masters of this. So I wondered how do they program grip training.

There is some variation in protocol depending on source, but the general process they follow is...
Work out the maximal grip for 10 seconds, in their case it is hanging statically from a small edge and using weight hanging from a climbing harness as required to find the 10-second load. They then hang for 7 seconds (*avoiding failure*) rest for 53 seconds and do 3 or 4 sets 2 or 3 times a week (novice use lower numbers, intermediate use the higher numbers). Some people find their 15 second max and hang for 10 seconds with a 2 minute rest, but the process is fundamentally the same.
Edit: the weight needs to gradually increase as you improve, not the time

Can we copy that? Yes - I suppose we can work out max grip using a barbell rack pull that fails at 10 seconds or so, then train with that weight 7 seconds 53 second rest and 3 "sets" of that 2 or 3 times a week (or intermediate 15 second load held for 10 seconds 4 sets 3 times a week)

Does this sound any good? Personally I'm up for testing it, although I'd prefer the climbers fingerboard hang as I might return to doing some climbing again (although fingerboard hang is probably not the best one for DL)

[LWW]

I've found that as an unathletic office worker I just don't have the grip I want. My 1 rep double overhand no straps no chalk starts to fail at about double-bodyweight. I know that straps and chalk are both important training tools and use for DL, but I'd like to have better than my current **** grip.

First off, I'm glad you want a better grip. I don't agree with mtpockets and ID because I know how much grip adds to the development of the rest of the body, it's much harder and takes a long time to develop that grip, that is why people just turn to straps.

CLARITY, I'm not saying anyone is this or that for using straps, NO (of course someone WILL miss read this) but very few people ever know how grip contributes to the rest of the body, its called BALANCE!

TOM,

How much you weigh? I know plenty of 250lb+ very strong people who win grip comps who can't DOH double bodyweight and these guys got around 8.5" hands from palm to end of middle finger (that would be a 500+ lift). The guys with very strong grip who weigh closer to 250 and do about Double BW. 600+ is like world class DOH. The lighter you are the closer you'll get to OVER double BW.

...and Dude, get some chalk, or at least use dirt, spit in hands.

Grip tip: most people (even the grip guys) never utilize the thumb on deads, wrap that sucker around your index finger, I see everyone keep the thumb away, the thumb is your strongest link.

I have seen plenty of DOH lifts to feel like a bitch myself.

[induced_drag]

Ha....if you want to train grip, train it. Using deadlifts for grip training is stupid and can be dangerous.

FWIW, I have never trained grip and my grip has never failed me on a lift. A few big boys in my old gym a while back doing farmers walks. Never done those before, so I jumped in for a set. My first and last ever set of farmer walks. I have also rack pulled reps with 765 no straps and grip was no issue. (I have rack pulled less than 3 or 4 times since the upper part of my lift is not a weakness, and I can lock anything out easily if I can get it off the floor.)

Looks like those straps have really hampered my development....Maybe I need more high rep squats?....

[LWW]

Ha....if you want to train grip, train it. Using deadlifts for grip training is stupid and can be dangerous.

Maybe I need more high rep squats?....

Good lord, I totally understand using straps to train a "pull" OK. Good for you, you can carry 200lb farmers, (I've done a hell lot more that that) .............aren't gifted (and hormoned) also?

BTW I had to quote the above because I smell some ignorance, first, a barbell will "roll" when lifting unlike "farmers handles" how the puck can you even say that is a stupid grip exercise?

......and actually high rep squats do contribute to grip, nice try.

[induced_drag]

how the puck can you even say that is a stupid grip exercise?

......and actually high rep squats do contribute to grip, nice try.

I should have known better than to respond, but you are actually entertainment. Half the time I can not tell if you are really that foolish, or if you are trying to actually make some point. You are like a verbal 'Where's Waldo' puzzle. I have to try really hard to make any sense of even your simplest statements. It is cool you dont think 'farmers' are good for building hand and forearm strength. That makes sense as you most often spout complete jibberish totally lacking in any real meaning.

Stay consistent man....it fits you.

[dazitmayn]

powerlifter that uses straps checking in

as mentioned by a few, absolutely do use straps if your grip is failing you. deadlift is a posterior chain exercise not a grip exercise first and foremost. I use straps for anything that is more than 3 reps. As long as I can mixed grip my deadlift on the platform without grip being the limiting factor it doesn't matter if I use straps or not.

basically, I do all my warm-ups up to my second last warmup double overhand. Do warm-up before working set mixed. Then use straps for my working sets that generally arent singles or doubles. I also do my rows strapless unless I go really heavy on these. I don't even train my grip seperate really. Haven't really had any issues with grip as far as my own goals are concerned although it definitely could be stronger. But the day that my grip is a limiting factor on my 1RM deadlift I don't really care.

[LWW]

It is cool you dont think 'farmers' are good for building hand and forearm strength. That makes sense as you most often spout complete jibberish totally lacking in any real meaning.

OMG, I never said that, but using a barbell IS harder on the grip than farmers that's just a fact. You are the guy who usually gets mixed-up with peoples posts around here. It seems you're quick to find a reason to post a vid of you're elite/superiority in fitness, a typical move from a narcissist who has more thoughts about "look at me" etc.

I think there are times in this thread you are even missing that Tom is even talking about DOH deads without straps?

You got rocks for brains, I'm shocked you fly?

I tend to "think" about working out 70% of my time, which may be sad too?

[OldFartTom]

Come on LWW and I_D, I could learn a lot from both of you, but even more if you can stop fighting for a minute. If I want to watch people argue, I can just watch my kids for 5 minutes


Good to see you back LWW.
Incidentally you have something to answer for! I think you got drunk and went a bit nuts and one of your posts you posted a pic of Ron Jeremy (not very bodybuilding). Unfortunately I was at a church event a few days later and the speaker had a striking resemblance to Ron Jeremy, which wouldn't even have occurred to me if you hadn't posted that pic. Being unable to laugh or explain what was funny made the whole thing worse (like a kid giggling in class) and I don't think pointing out (or explaining) the resemblance to others would have gone down so well. It didn't help my concentration on what the guy was saying - and I hold you completely responsible for that.

I'd offered the measure of DOH no straps no chalk as a measure of my substandard grip, not as a measure of my deadlift... yes I do use chalk, although liquid chalk in a tube which I don't like but it fits in the bag and the gyms I go to don't supply chalk, but do tolerate its use. To answer your question this morning I was 76.4Kg (168lbs) which for my slightly built frame is a bit fat starting to feel uncomfortable so I am starting to cut down to target 69Kg (152lbs), I'm definitely no big-beast of the gym


Thanks I_D,
So I understand why (I'm not questioning your judgement, great farmers' walk BTW...) why would you say that doing a 1 inch rack pull would be a dangerous way to train grip?

[Jtbny]

To the points made about farmers and grip strength; For me - farmers do build stronger forearms and grip but that grip strength doesn't translate to grip strength on the deadlift bar. The reason is the bar will roll where farmers wont. In order to get stronger double overhand grip on deadlifts I have to train double overhand on deadlifts. Just for reference I've carried 290 per hand 60 yards but have only managed a DOH deadlift of 455 off a 2" platform. You'd think I could pull well over 500 DOH but, for me, the carryover isn't there.

https://www.instagram.com/p/B4FYfRClQr4/

[KidFreeze]

Ha....if you want to train grip, train it. Using deadlifts for grip training is stupid and can be dangerous.

FWIW, I have never trained grip and my grip has never failed me on a lift. A few big boys in my old gym a while back doing farmers walks. Never done those before, so I jumped in for a set. My first and last ever set of farmer walks. I have also rack pulled reps with 765 no straps and grip was no issue. (I have rack pulled less than 3 or 4 times since the upper part of my lift is not a weakness, and I can lock anything out easily if I can get it off the floor.)

Looks like those straps have really hampered my development....Maybe I need more high rep squats?....

Nice! Cool looking old school gym, is that a basement or an actual gym? Love the rustic plates, nothing worse than shinning new equipment

[supramax]

im running Madcow program right now.

my dead lift is at 270 Lbs X 5 right now, and i have to reset my grip after every set. both palms down.

i am thinking about using wrist straps on my last set?

is this the best plan of action? will it weaken my strength?

thanks,

I do deadlifts followed by dips followed by Farmers' Walks. I use these for the deadlifts: https://www.fitnessdepot.ca/J11QMO30...lack-pair.html

[OldFartTom]

...The reason is the bar will roll where farmers wont. ...

Ah of course, that also clears up why hanging on a monkey bar (or pullup bar) with one hand feels easier than DOH deadlift at 2 x bodyweight. The weight's the same on paper but the bar roll is missing on the pullup/monkey bars.
Also I've heard of the fairground challenge "hang for 100 seconds to win $100" but the bar is on bearings so it rolls in hand like DOH deadlift which is why it's way harder than the people entering it realize

[induced_drag]

Nice! Cool looking old school gym, is that a basement or an actual gym? Love the rustic plates, nothing worse than shinning new equipment

It is a place I worked out at for a while. VERY old school. All old milled back york plates, a light dust of rust on about everything. They even have a few chain nautilus machines on the other side of the place. Not underground, but might as well be . Just a few small windows.

I have been greatly in need of a 'reset'. It might be time to consider going back there....

[KidFreeze]

It is a place I worked out at for a while. VERY old school. All old milled back york plates, a light dust of rust on about everything. They even have a few chain nautilus machines on the other side of the place. Not underground, but might as well be . Just a few small windows.

I have been greatly in need of a 'reset'. It might be time to consider going back there....

Very cool. When I was in college I belonged to a gym just like that. Sh*t every, old chain machines, but awesome atmosphere.

[LWW]

Incidentally you have something to answer for! I think you got drunk and went a bit nuts and one of your posts you posted a pic of Ron Jeremy (not very bodybuilding).
It didn't help my concentration on what the guy was saying - and I hold you completely responsible for that.

I'd offered the measure of DOH no straps no chalk as a measure of my substandard grip, not as a measure of my deadlift...

Tom,

A DOH deadlift of at least 315 at your BW doesn't sound so substandard, but I do understand, I'm not very happy with my DOH also. Its good you're not happy with it, this way you'll work to improve it.

I've done farmers in contest with 300lb an arm (30'), and up to 265lb and arm for a total of 100' with a turn. I also won 1st in farmers "hold" for time with 265lb an arm, at this time in history I could barely hold-on to a 315lb DOH dead lift. This is the difference between a bar that "rolls" and has torque when lifting vs a farmers handle. (and dumbells with spheres are harder because the torque applies more force).

...and I wasn't drunk, I don't "get drunk", I drink for about 1-2 hours on nights that I train (sometimes very fast) which buzzes me, within 2 hours the buzz is gone. I only posted Ron Jeremy because someone thought I was "big tall ox" according to some I'm a dwarf, well Ron is 5'5" at best, in the picture the women he is standing with are taller than him, short men don't all have complex and insecurity problems which they need to make up for, look at Ron

You should of told the pastor he looked like Super-Mario