Reply
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 43
  1. #1
    Registered User bflare78's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2014
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Age: 40
    Posts: 460
    Rep Power: 1782
    bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000)
    bflare78 is offline

    Cannot increase my 1RM on 5/3/1 before I need to cut again.

    Sorry for the long post.

    I’m struggling here with how I should proceed. I am 40 years old & just under 5’8” tall. I have an extremely small frame with wrists measuring just 6” circumference. I currently weigh in at just under 130lb which does sound really light but if you look at my avi I don’t think I look too bad? Due to my low weight my TDEE is very low & due to my age & the fact that I used to be overweight I add fat really easily. I eat clean & track my calories every day. I have done numerous cut & bulk cycles. I did a dirty bulk a while ago which ended badly & I had to cut for over 5 months. My main goal is aesthetics. I want to keep looking good & add muscle without getting too fat.

    My bench 1RM was around 80kg which as dropped a little as I have just done a cut but according to EXrX.net this puts me in the intermediate category due to my body weight. I cannot progress on a linear progression any more & I have found that 5/3/1 works best for me now. I have never been able to get past 80kg 1RM before needing to cut again. To add more muscle than previously I need to get my bench & press up to above what it has been before. What I am struggling with is increasing my 1RM on 5/3/1 before I need to cut again. 5/3/1 is monthly progression so I find that if I add 1lb of body weight per month over say a 6 month bulk I cannot manage to progress on 5/3/1 to a level that my 1RM on my lifts have increased more than before so basically I am spinning my wheels.

    I think maybe last time I started 5/3/1 to low so I spent 2 months lifting in high rep ranges that didn’t help my strength. I also was training 6 days a week & not sleeping well. This time around I can only train 3 days & I am getting more recovery time & sleep which should help. What I was thinking of doing is staying at maintenance for a while & getting my lifts back up to where they were before this most recent cut & then starting 5/3/1 which but not as low as before. Also, maybe doing shorter bulk & cut cycles.

    Any advice please?
    Reply With Quote

  2. #2
    Registered User shaneinga's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2008
    Location: Georgia, United States
    Posts: 10,905
    Rep Power: 25385
    shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    shaneinga is offline
    If you are going to increase your strength you can't be afraid to eat a little so I like the idea of bringing your calories back up to maintenance for awhile.

    I will say that 531's bench progression seems to be it's weakness as compared to gains on the squats and deads and I am not the only one to say that. I have seen and heard from others in the forum journals that it simply isn't enough volume weekly. If you are only benching one day a week you might look at the BBB format and run it with the less boring option where you are doing the BBB bench work with your SOHP day, and vice versa. Add in some FSL sets as well. If that all fails, add in a day with some heavy triples or doubles.

    This is all assuming that you have taken care of making sure your form on BP is indeed good and your failure on BP isn't do to a huge hole in your set up.
    IG @ JustShaneinGa
    MFP @ dvldwninga
    Reply With Quote

  3. #3
    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2016
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Age: 26
    Posts: 8,900
    Rep Power: 44038
    WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    WolfRose7 is offline
    eat more and run a program with more bench volume and direct variation.

    My vote would be The Bridge from Barbell Medicine
    TSA 9 week intermediate is good, but is a peaking program as much as building
    Calgary barbell 16 weeks is similar but you could just run the first 12 weeks and adjust from there
    2018 Log
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175232661

    FMH Crew, Sandbagging Mike Tuscherer Wannabee
    Reply With Quote

  4. #4
    Registered User KidFreeze's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2019
    Age: 49
    Posts: 188
    Rep Power: 1610
    KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000)
    KidFreeze is offline
    The words that stood out the most from your post are, bulk, dirty bulk, cut, cut & cut. Your focus and obsession is more on the insanity of "bulking and cutting" It seems like you need to eat more, eat carbs. If your goal is aesthetics don't worry about 1 RPM. Do all of your exercise with a 3 x 10, or just pyramid up in weight. Lifting is easy, don't make it so complicate.
    Reply With Quote

  5. #5
    Registered User bflare78's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2014
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Age: 40
    Posts: 460
    Rep Power: 1782
    bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000)
    bflare78 is offline
    Originally Posted by shaneinga View Post
    If you are going to increase your strength you can't be afraid to eat a little so I like the idea of bringing your calories back up to maintenance for awhile.

    I will say that 531's bench progression seems to be it's weakness as compared to gains on the squats and deads and I am not the only one to say that. I have seen and heard from others in the forum journals that it simply isn't enough volume weekly. If you are only benching one day a week you might look at the BBB format and run it with the less boring option where you are doing the BBB bench work with your SOHP day, and vice versa. Add in some FSL sets as well. If that all fails, add in a day with some heavy triples or doubles.

    This is all assuming that you have taken care of making sure your form on BP is indeed good and your failure on BP isn't do to a huge hole in your set up.
    Sorry I forgot to add that I am running 531 BBB with opposite lifts for the BBB sets. I have had someone look at my form & they have said it looks ok so I think it maybe just a case of getting back to maintenance & getting my strength back up then attacking it from there.
    Reply With Quote

  6. #6
    Registered User bflare78's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2014
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Age: 40
    Posts: 460
    Rep Power: 1782
    bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000)
    bflare78 is offline
    Originally Posted by KidFreeze View Post
    The words that stood out the most from your post are, bulk, dirty bulk, cut, cut & cut. Your focus and obsession is more on the insanity of "bulking and cutting" It seems like you need to eat more, eat carbs. If your goal is aesthetics don't worry about 1 RPM. Do all of your exercise with a 3 x 10, or just pyramid up in weight. Lifting is easy, don't make it so complicate.
    I don't mind putting a little bit of fat on but at my age & my small frame size I feel uncomfortable with too much fat gain. When bulking I tend to eat around 200 to 300 surplus but as I say I put too much fat on before I have gained strength. However, in your opinion I maybe better working in the higher rep ranges?
    Reply With Quote

  7. #7
    Registered User KidFreeze's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2019
    Age: 49
    Posts: 188
    Rep Power: 1610
    KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000)
    KidFreeze is offline
    Originally Posted by bflare78 View Post
    I don't mind putting a little bit of fat on but at my age & my small frame size I feel uncomfortable with too much fat gain. When bulking I tend to eat around 200 to 300 surplus but as I say I put too much fat on before I have gained strength. However, in your opinion I maybe better working in the higher rep ranges?
    Try it out, see how it feels with higher reps. Personally I never have a game plan before a workout, it's always free-styling with me. I always switch it up. One workout maybe 6-8 reps with heavier weight, the next I would just pick a weight and do 3 x 10.
    Reply With Quote

  8. #8
    Weak and foolish OldFartTom's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2017
    Posts: 4,083
    Rep Power: 23393
    OldFartTom has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) OldFartTom has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) OldFartTom has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) OldFartTom has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) OldFartTom has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) OldFartTom has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) OldFartTom has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) OldFartTom has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) OldFartTom has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) OldFartTom has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) OldFartTom has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    OldFartTom is offline
    1 pound of bodyweight per month for 6 months, ermm have to fingers on both hands for this kind of math, that must be 6 lbs "bulked" over 6 months.

    Now I'm not advocating any giant face stuffing glutinous bulk, but does 6lbs even count as a bulk?? Don't people aim for a lb per week

    Did I read the original post wrong?
    Faith in Jesus first and faith in squats second.
    Then other details will start to slot themselves into place.
    Diet restarted Monday Oct 28th @76.8, Nov 20th 74.7, target 69.x Kg.
    Reply With Quote

  9. #9
    Registered User bflare78's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2014
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Age: 40
    Posts: 460
    Rep Power: 1782
    bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000)
    bflare78 is offline
    Originally Posted by OldFartTom View Post
    1 pound of bodyweight per month for 6 months, ermm have to fingers on both hands for this kind of math, that must be 6 lbs "bulked" over 6 months.

    Now I'm not advocating any giant face stuffing glutinous bulk, but does 6lbs even count as a bulk?? Don't people aim for a lb per week

    Did I read the original post wrong?
    From what I have researched in the second & third year of training you can only expect to add 5 to 12lbs of muscle in a year. So bulking at 1lb per month over a year if you split that between 50/50 fat & muscle would give you 6lb of muscle which is not bad at all on a 130lb frame in the 2nd to 3rd year of training.

    1lb a week would give you 52lb of added weight over a year. A 50/50 split would equate to 26 lb of muscle & 26lb of fat. There's no way I could add 26lb of muscle given my training length so you would be looking at the majority of that weight to be fat. I have done this & I spent half of the year cutting the fat off. No thanks! I would rather do a slow lean bulk & not have to spend months dieting again.
    Reply With Quote

  10. #10
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2009
    Age: 46
    Posts: 9,117
    Rep Power: 78479
    induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000)
    induced_drag is offline
    Originally Posted by KidFreeze View Post
    The words that stood out the most from your post are, bulk, dirty bulk, cut, cut & cut. Your focus and obsession is more on the insanity of "bulking and cutting" .
    Dude, you bash things you dont understand. You are SO far off base. Your goals are not what others want. Sure, if you just want to be in shape and be 'fit', I would not recommend 'bulk/cut'.

    But for those of us that have a goal of maximizing mass and strength increases, running a series of surpluses and deficits is BY FAR the best way to achieve this. You criticize what you dont understand.


    I spent the first 4 years returning to the gym running bulk / cut. I gained and lost 100's of lbs in the process. NEVER staying the same weight two weeks in a row. It took a huge commitment to do this, but the results were undeniable. I had tried other methods and nothing compares to the results of your training when you are on a sustained caloric surplus. But the inevitable nature of this is you will gain some fat over time, so you then have to cut.

    Please go join weight watchers forum or something. Believe it or not, there are people here who have goals more than just being average fit.

    My advice to you....Stop giving advice! Unless the post starts out with....'I am a little overweight and want to train a little and feel better but I have no desire to do anything much more than average'. Then, by all means, go ahead.
    RAW lifts
    635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
    585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
    420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
    545 Squat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qZZLnePFiI
    225 x 29 bench http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe68-LgD0jM
    Reply With Quote

  11. #11
    Registered User shaneinga's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2008
    Location: Georgia, United States
    Posts: 10,905
    Rep Power: 25385
    shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) shaneinga has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    shaneinga is offline
    Originally Posted by bflare78 View Post
    Sorry I forgot to add that I am running 531 BBB with opposite lifts for the BBB sets. I have had someone look at my form & they have said it looks ok so I think it maybe just a case of getting back to maintenance & getting my strength back up then attacking it from there.
    Yep, start with diet and see if that gets it moving. Adjust one variable at a time. Good luck.
    IG @ JustShaneinGa
    MFP @ dvldwninga
    Reply With Quote

  12. #12
    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2016
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Age: 26
    Posts: 8,900
    Rep Power: 44038
    WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    WolfRose7 is offline
    Originally Posted by bflare78 View Post
    From what I have researched in the second & third year of training you can only expect to add 5 to 12lbs of muscle in a year. So bulking at 1lb per month over a year if you split that between 50/50 fat & muscle would give you 6lb of muscle which is not bad at all on a 130lb frame in the 2nd to 3rd year of training.

    1lb a week would give you 52lb of added weight over a year. A 50/50 split would equate to 26 lb of muscle & 26lb of fat. There's no way I could add 26lb of muscle given my training length so you would be looking at the majority of that weight to be fat. I have done this & I spent half of the year cutting the fat off. No thanks! I would rather do a slow lean bulk & not have to spend months dieting again.
    In principal i think you're on it, but you're not generally going to only gain lean mass, probably still only 50% on a lean bulk, so 6lbs over 6 months is maybe only 3lbs lean mass.. and 200-300 cal surplus doesn't account very well for 20% calorie errors. You might well not be in a surplus most the time.

    Would rather aim for 2lbs a month and a 400 surplus and cut the inconsequential fat off whenever
    2018 Log
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175232661

    FMH Crew, Sandbagging Mike Tuscherer Wannabee
    Reply With Quote

  13. #13
    Registered User bflare78's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2014
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Age: 40
    Posts: 460
    Rep Power: 1782
    bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000)
    bflare78 is offline
    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    In principal i think you're on it, but you're not generally going to only gain lean mass, probably still only 50% on a lean bulk, so 6lbs over 6 months is maybe only 3lbs lean mass.. and 200-300 cal surplus doesn't account very well for 20% calorie errors. You might well not be in a surplus most the time.

    Would rather aim for 2lbs a month and a 400 surplus and cut the inconsequential fat off whenever
    Noted. Thank you. What would you suggest would be a good approx length for a bulk and cut cycle?
    Reply With Quote

  14. #14
    Registered User KidFreeze's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2019
    Age: 49
    Posts: 188
    Rep Power: 1610
    KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000)
    KidFreeze is offline
    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Dude, you bash things you dont understand. You are SO far off base. Your goals are not what others want. Sure, if you just want to be in shape and be 'fit', I would not recommend 'bulk/cut'.

    But for those of us that have a goal of maximizing mass and strength increases, running a series of surpluses and deficits is BY FAR the best way to achieve this. You criticize what you dont understand.


    I spent the first 4 years returning to the gym running bulk / cut. I gained and lost 100's of lbs in the process. NEVER staying the same weight two weeks in a row. It took a huge commitment to do this, but the results were undeniable. I had tried other methods and nothing compares to the results of your training when you are on a sustained caloric surplus. But the inevitable nature of this is you will gain some fat over time, so you then have to cut.

    Please go join weight watchers forum or something. Believe it or not, there are people here who have goals more than just being average fit.

    My advice to you....Stop giving advice! Unless the post starts out with....'I am a little overweight and want to train a little and feel better but I have no desire to do anything much more than average'. Then, by all means, go ahead.
    I'm not bashing anything. I just don't believe in the cut/bulk thing. Frank Zane didn't, most of the old school bodybuilders never did.

    What else do you do beside lift? I'm still involved with sports, skateboard, outdoor activities, etc. You seem just like the average vanilla gym rat, nothing special, and you are on the gear as well. Being fit is not a goal?

    You are also good at bashing people who can't lift as much as you, and taking photos of someone legs and bashing them on a public forum, that's bizarre and weird.
    Last edited by KidFreeze; 10-22-2019 at 12:41 PM.
    Reply With Quote

  15. #15
    Registered User Payton1221's Avatar
    Join Date: Oct 2010
    Location: Indiana, United States
    Age: 52
    Posts: 4,514
    Rep Power: 58013
    Payton1221 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Payton1221 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Payton1221 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Payton1221 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Payton1221 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Payton1221 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Payton1221 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Payton1221 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Payton1221 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Payton1221 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) Payton1221 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    Payton1221 is offline
    I didn't see any reference to cardio. I just want to make sure that you're not doing something to sabotage your lifting like too much of it. I know that some trainers suggest nearly none when you're wanting to add mass.
    Pull-Up PR: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177233951
    Reply With Quote

  16. #16
    Registered User bflare78's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2014
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Age: 40
    Posts: 460
    Rep Power: 1782
    bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000)
    bflare78 is offline
    Originally Posted by Payton1221 View Post
    I didn't see any reference to cardio. I just want to make sure that you're not doing something to sabotage your lifting like too much of it. I know that some trainers suggest nearly none when you're wanting to add mass.
    I do quite a lot of cardio when cutting due to my low TDEE or I'd not be eating much haha but when bulking ill generally only do an hour spread over the week for cardiovascular benefits
    Reply With Quote

  17. #17
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2009
    Age: 46
    Posts: 9,117
    Rep Power: 78479
    induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000)
    induced_drag is offline
    Originally Posted by KidFreeze View Post
    I'm not bashing anything. I just don't believe in the cut/bulk thing. Frank Zane didn't, most of the old school bodybuilders never did.

    What else do you do beside lift? I'm still involved with sports, skateboard, outdoor activities, etc. You seem just like the average vanilla gym rat, nothing special, and you are on the gear as well. Being fit is not a goal?

    You are also good at bashing people who can't lift as much as you, and taking photos of someone legs and bashing them on a public forum, that's bizarre and weird.
    Your right. My life is a meaningless pool only consisting of reps and sets. I am just a basic gym rat for sure....

    I am not bashing just anyone. I am bashing YOU because you criticize what you do not understand. Your goals of merely being 'fit' are not applicable to those who want more than that. Yet you constantly come in and give "advice" bashing one of the most sound principles which is eating a sustained surplus will maximize BOTH lean mass and strength goals.

    If you have not figured it out....that makes you the one that is closed minded.

    You funny dude. If you care too, please expand on why caloric surplus followed by structured deficits is not the best way. How did you gain all your mass and strength
    RAW lifts
    635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
    585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
    420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
    545 Squat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qZZLnePFiI
    225 x 29 bench http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe68-LgD0jM
    Reply With Quote

  18. #18
    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2016
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Age: 26
    Posts: 8,900
    Rep Power: 44038
    WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000) WolfRose7 has much to be proud of. One of the best! (+20000)
    WolfRose7 is offline
    Originally Posted by bflare78 View Post
    Noted. Thank you. What would you suggest would be a good approx length for a bulk and cut cycle?
    I think you've got to take it as it comes and see tbh. But 6 months steady gain to 2 months or less cut roughly.
    2018 Log
    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175232661

    FMH Crew, Sandbagging Mike Tuscherer Wannabee
    Reply With Quote

  19. #19
    Registered User bflare78's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2014
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Age: 40
    Posts: 460
    Rep Power: 1782
    bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000)
    bflare78 is offline
    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    I think you've got to take it as it comes and see tbh. But 6 months steady gain to 2 months or less cut roughly.
    Yeah I agree & this was my plan. Thanks.
    Reply With Quote

  20. #20
    Registered User armies's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2019
    Age: 49
    Posts: 2,436
    Rep Power: 0
    armies armies armies armies armies armies armies armies armies armies armies
    armies is offline
    Maybe 531 method is not so good
    See the curtains hangin' in the window, in the evenin' on a Friday night
    A little light a-shinin' through the window, lets me know everything is alright
    Summer breeze, makes me feel fine, blowing through the jasmine in my mind
    Summer breeze, makes me feel fine, blowing through the jasmine in my mind
    Reply With Quote

  21. #21
    Registered User KidFreeze's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2019
    Age: 49
    Posts: 188
    Rep Power: 1610
    KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000) KidFreeze is just really nice. (+1000)
    KidFreeze is offline
    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    You funny dude. If you care too, please expand on why caloric surplus followed by structured deficits is not the best way. How did you gain all your mass and strength
    Structure and working out is like trying to put two magnets together. I just stopped running alot, picked up some weights and started to lift. The decrease in my cardio, I put on weight from that and the weights. I never changed my diet, just ate 3 meals a day, and healthy snacking in between. I do the pyramid style of working out, just increasing the weight gradually.

    I will keep my mouth closed and move on. I'm not a bodybuilder anyways so no clue why I joined this board, I will slowly disappear.... but did learn some good things here.
    Reply With Quote

  22. #22
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2009
    Age: 46
    Posts: 9,117
    Rep Power: 78479
    induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000)
    induced_drag is offline
    Originally Posted by KidFreeze View Post
    I'm not a bodybuilder anyways so no clue why I joined this board, I will slowly disappear.... but did learn some good things here.
    Hey man. Lots of people here that are not 'bodybuilders'. It is OK to have different goals and this place is a motley collection of people from the weekend warriors to the 'gym rats' as you put it.

    You think I am a dik which is fine....but my only issue with you is I have seen you (several times) knocking the idea of eating a caloric surplus as a waste of time or ineffective option. For people with goals that are different from yours, it truly is the most effective path to progress. That is why I took issue with your post(s).

    I am not here to run anyone off. I only ask that you consider the goals of the person asking the question prior to feeling the need to pass on what has worked best for you.

    Yep....I 'bash' people at times. And yes, I find it funny when a guy trains 5 days a week and NEVER works legs. If that makes me a 'bad' person, then so be it. But I also listen (or make sure I ask) what someone's goals are before I give them advice.
    RAW lifts
    635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
    585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
    420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
    545 Squat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qZZLnePFiI
    225 x 29 bench http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe68-LgD0jM
    Reply With Quote

  23. #23
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2009
    Age: 46
    Posts: 9,117
    Rep Power: 78479
    induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000)
    induced_drag is offline
    OP. Sorry to side track your post. I agree with several of the above posts. If you only gained 6lbs in 6 months you are probably not running a true daily surplus.

    I have always felt that 250cal was about as 'small' of a daily surplus that you can run. Understanding the errors in macro counting, this will allow you to know as well as you can that you are eating a daily surplus. That said, it takes a TON of work to track with that much accuracy. A lot of people are not up for that. But run properly, a 250cal surplus will net 2lbs a month. Run for 6 months you should have seen about 18lbs of scale shift. 12 from 'weight' gain, and 4-6 or water shift that comes with water balance that comes along with eating higher carbs/intake.

    At your lower weight, I however would run 500 or possibly even a larger surplus. If you are on the low end of your development, you can gain A LOT of weight very fast. Most people will gain 80+% of the total mass they will ever be able to gain in the first 2 years of training. I gained almost 50lbs, naturally, in my first 3 years of training. But I am lucky and was blessed with a good training response.

    I help a lot of people out IRL. It is something I enjoy. A guy I am helping is about 7 months into his journey. He is 38 5'10" and was 150 when we started. He is running Starting strength, and has not been as consistent as I would have liked him to be with his eating. He is up 15lbs lean. (guy is like 9%bf year naturally).

    Prior to altering his diet he was 2 years into training with almost no gains. He did not believe me but finally, go frustrated with no progress. Eating is where most people fail.

    My standard bulk/cut would run 4-5 months in surplus. I did it enough times that I could tell when my nutrient partitioning was going to crap. I found the best way to monitor was by measuring your waist once a week first thing am. Lie down do the state of flex of the abs comes out of the equation. Track. VAT will increase in the process which is no big deal. It goes as fast as it comes as it has such good blood flow. It is the Sub-q you have to watch out for. At some point in the bulk, you will notice skin folds starting to increase. When you hit that point, STOP and reverse direction. If you are not sure, you can pull back carbs for a few days to drop bloat and double check. You dont want to push your bulk so far that you pick up too much sub-q.

    Ideally, each bulk/cut cycle, you will stay leaner and leaner. The difficult fat will stay off and your only really changing VAT. It is kind of like your buffer. Push as far as you can, and then stop when the sub-q comes in. As an example, when I first started 'cutting', my thigh had a 14mm skinfold. Over time, my thigh is now 4mm. I can 'bulk' up 30 lbs and my thigh stays 4-5mm.

    Abdominal sub-q fat is more affected by water retention, so it will make you a little nervous, but you will lean when you are actually picking up fat.

    I spent years doing this and I only stopped about 4 years ago. My 'gains' at this point are almost impossible to track. bulk/cut is no longer effective for me. I ran my last 2 bulk/cut cycles, 14months of commitment, only to find out after gaining 30lbs each time, I was the same weight when I dieted back down. So at this point, I just 'stay in shape'.

    BUT I spent almost 5 years religiously eating up and down (most of it while I was still lifetime natural) and it was BY_FAR the most effective strategy.

    Some old pics for you to give you an idea.

    Trained most of my life 100% naturally. About 3 years back into training I found out that I was feeling so bad because I had ACTUAL low-t. Suffered a broken neck and TBI in 09 and they think it damaged my pituitary. Left me low-t AND hypothyroid. So the pics below were actually done with low-t (like BELOW the bottom of the scale low). I have since gone on Dr treatment and hung up my 'nattie' card for good following that.

    First good cut:




    This is one of my first 25lb bulks



    First year of training back. (natural not that it matters, but muscle memory is really why such good progress)



    This was one of my last full natural cut


    6 years later, here is where I am today. Non-nattie in full disclosure. I have managed gains of aprox 1-1 1/2 a year the last 5 years. Too little to track which is why I no longer bulk/cut.


    Getting to this point I pushed my weight up quite a few times. This is me at 235 5'9 tall. I think this was one of my last 'bulks' I stay 200-205 these days. 203 in the pic above.


    RAW lifts
    635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
    585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
    420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
    545 Squat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qZZLnePFiI
    225 x 29 bench http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe68-LgD0jM
    Reply With Quote

  24. #24
    Registered User bflare78's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2014
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Age: 40
    Posts: 460
    Rep Power: 1782
    bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000)
    bflare78 is offline
    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    OP. Sorry to side track your post. I agree with several of the above posts. If you only gained 6lbs in 6 months you are probably not running a true daily surplus.

    I have always felt that 250cal was about as 'small' of a daily surplus that you can run. Understanding the errors in macro counting, this will allow you to know as well as you can that you are eating a daily surplus. That said, it takes a TON of work to track with that much accuracy. A lot of people are not up for that. But run properly, a 250cal surplus will net 2lbs a month. Run for 6 months you should have seen about 18lbs of scale shift. 12 from 'weight' gain, and 4-6 or water shift that comes with water balance that comes along with eating higher carbs/intake.

    At your lower weight, I however would run 500 or possibly even a larger surplus. If you are on the low end of your development, you can gain A LOT of weight very fast. Most people will gain 80+% of the total mass they will ever be able to gain in the first 2 years of training. I gained almost 50lbs, naturally, in my first 3 years of training. But I am lucky and was blessed with a good training response.

    I help a lot of people out IRL. It is something I enjoy. A guy I am helping is about 7 months into his journey. He is 38 5'10" and was 150 when we started. He is running Starting strength, and has not been as consistent as I would have liked him to be with his eating. He is up 15lbs lean. (guy is like 9%bf year naturally).

    Prior to altering his diet he was 2 years into training with almost no gains. He did not believe me but finally, go frustrated with no progress. Eating is where most people fail.

    My standard bulk/cut would run 4-5 months in surplus. I did it enough times that I could tell when my nutrient partitioning was going to crap. I found the best way to monitor was by measuring your waist once a week first thing am. Lie down do the state of flex of the abs comes out of the equation. Track. VAT will increase in the process which is no big deal. It goes as fast as it comes as it has such good blood flow. It is the Sub-q you have to watch out for. At some point in the bulk, you will notice skin folds starting to increase. When you hit that point, STOP and reverse direction. If you are not sure, you can pull back carbs for a few days to drop bloat and double check. You dont want to push your bulk so far that you pick up too much sub-q.

    Ideally, each bulk/cut cycle, you will stay leaner and leaner. The difficult fat will stay off and your only really changing VAT. It is kind of like your buffer. Push as far as you can, and then stop when the sub-q comes in. As an example, when I first started 'cutting', my thigh had a 14mm skinfold. Over time, my thigh is now 4mm. I can 'bulk' up 30 lbs and my thigh stays 4-5mm.

    Abdominal sub-q fat is more affected by water retention, so it will make you a little nervous, but you will lean when you are actually picking up fat.

    I spent years doing this and I only stopped about 4 years ago. My 'gains' at this point are almost impossible to track. bulk/cut is no longer effective for me. I ran my last 2 bulk/cut cycles, 14months of commitment, only to find out after gaining 30lbs each time, I was the same weight when I dieted back down. So at this point, I just 'stay in shape'.

    BUT I spent almost 5 years religiously eating up and down (most of it while I was still lifetime natural) and it was BY_FAR the most effective strategy.

    Some old pics for you to give you an idea.

    Trained most of my life 100% naturally. About 3 years back into training I found out that I was feeling so bad because I had ACTUAL low-t. Suffered a broken neck and TBI in 09 and they think it damaged my pituitary. Left me low-t AND hypothyroid. So the pics below were actually done with low-t (like BELOW the bottom of the scale low). I have since gone on Dr treatment and hung up my 'nattie' card for good following that.

    First good cut:




    This is one of my first 25lb bulks



    First year of training back. (natural not that it matters, but muscle memory is really why such good progress)



    This was one of my last full natural cut


    6 years later, here is where I am today. Non-nattie in full disclosure. I have managed gains of aprox 1-1 1/2 a year the last 5 years. Too little to track which is why I no longer bulk/cut.


    Getting to this point I pushed my weight up quite a few times. This is me at 235 5'9 tall. I think this was one of my last 'bulks' I stay 200-205 these days. 203 in the pic above.


    Thanks for this man! Very helpful and informative. I'm pretty good at tracking macros but yeah 250 is probably a little low. I did notice on my last bulk some weeks were zero weight gain which didn't help.

    I'm just coming off of a cut and will be doing a few weeks at maintenance. Do you think I should give linear progression a go again? I'm sure I've rinsed LP though and 531 was working but as I said by the time I had got up to my previous 1RM I had been bulking for around 6 months and added more fat that muscle. Should I restart 531 at a greater training max than before? I'm following 531 BBB with added assistance in the 10 to 12 rep scheme. Basically my last bulk I just spent pushing the same weight as before and I think this is why it was a failed bulk.

    Nice pics btw!
    Reply With Quote

  25. #25
    Registered User jademonkey's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2019
    Posts: 627
    Rep Power: 598
    jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500)
    jademonkey is offline
    6 lbs, 6 months... That's like a 2 week cut if half is fat. And maybe the surplus is just too low to build optimal muscle. Pretty sure even if you are deathly afraid of fat you can double that surplus. 6 months, 12 lbs is still a pretty short cut if you gain 2/3 fat.
    Current.....................315 / 285 / 475............177 lbs
    July 1, 2019.................................................164 lbs
    Late April 2019.........285 / 275 / 440.............178 lbs
    Early March 2019......275 / 245 / 405.............173 lbs
    Oct, 2018..............175x6 / 145x6 / 275x5......163 lbs
    Reply With Quote

  26. #26
    Registered User bflare78's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2014
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Age: 40
    Posts: 460
    Rep Power: 1782
    bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000)
    bflare78 is offline
    Originally Posted by jademonkey View Post
    6 lbs, 6 months... That's like a 2 week cut if half is fat. And maybe the surplus is just too low to build optimal muscle. Pretty sure even if you are deathly afraid of fat you can double that surplus. 6 months, 12 lbs is still a pretty short cut if you gain 2/3 fat.
    yeah I agree. Think I'm going to go for a bigger surplus this time. Limit the bulk to 6 months and start the program off at a heavier training max so by the time I'm done with the bulk I'm lifting heavier and the increase in calories will make sure I'm always in a surplus.
    Reply With Quote

  27. #27
    Registered User tkdnj's Avatar
    Join Date: Dec 2008
    Location: United States
    Age: 55
    Posts: 691
    Rep Power: 1822
    tkdnj is just really nice. (+1000) tkdnj is just really nice. (+1000) tkdnj is just really nice. (+1000) tkdnj is just really nice. (+1000) tkdnj is just really nice. (+1000) tkdnj is just really nice. (+1000) tkdnj is just really nice. (+1000) tkdnj is just really nice. (+1000) tkdnj is just really nice. (+1000) tkdnj is just really nice. (+1000) tkdnj is just really nice. (+1000)
    tkdnj is offline
    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    Dude, you bash things you dont understand. You are SO far off base. Your goals are not what others want. Sure, if you just want to be in shape and be 'fit', I would not recommend 'bulk/cut'.

    But for those of us that have a goal of maximizing mass and strength increases, running a series of surpluses and deficits is BY FAR the best way to achieve this. You criticize what you dont understand.


    I spent the first 4 years returning to the gym running bulk / cut. I gained and lost 100's of lbs in the process. NEVER staying the same weight two weeks in a row. It took a huge commitment to do this, but the results were undeniable. I had tried other methods and nothing compares to the results of your training when you are on a sustained caloric surplus. But the inevitable nature of this is you will gain some fat over time, so you then have to cut.

    Please go join weight watchers forum or something. Believe it or not, there are people here who have goals more than just being average fit.

    My advice to you....Stop giving advice! Unless the post starts out with....'I am a little overweight and want to train a little and feel better but I have no desire to do anything much more than average'. Then, by all means, go ahead.
    Hey Induced... I'd be interested in hearing your opinions to a post I made this morning regarding bulking and cutting in our 50's... thanks... https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=177674081
    Reply With Quote

  28. #28
    Registered User bflare78's Avatar
    Join Date: Jun 2014
    Location: United Kingdom (Great Britain)
    Age: 40
    Posts: 460
    Rep Power: 1782
    bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000) bflare78 is just really nice. (+1000)
    bflare78 is offline
    Originally Posted by tkdnj View Post
    Hey Induced... I'd be interested in hearing your opinions to a post I made this morning regarding bulking and cutting in our 50's... thanks... https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=177674081
    I'm guessing and I'm no expert. Someone as yourself wouldn't be a good candidate to be on a large surplus given your relatively low possibility of adding much more than 5lb of muscle per year. I guess the surplus should reduce slightly as your training years increase especially around the 5 year mark.
    Reply With Quote

  29. #29
    Powerlifting in disguise induced_drag's Avatar
    Join Date: Jan 2009
    Age: 46
    Posts: 9,117
    Rep Power: 78479
    induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000) induced_drag has a brilliant future. Third best rank! (+40000)
    induced_drag is offline
    Originally Posted by bflare78 View Post
    I'm guessing and I'm no expert. Someone as yourself wouldn't be a good candidate to be on a large surplus given your relatively low possibility of adding much more than 5lb of muscle per year. I guess the surplus should reduce slightly as your training years increase especially around the 5 year mark.
    I agree completely. After 2 years of REAL training and eating, if you are training naturally, I think most would want to drop to a 250 +/- surplus. As I mentioned above, trying to run much less puts you in the margin of error of tracking to where some days you might not actually be in surplus. (eg, impossible to run a 50 cal surplus and expect to do it accurately).

    My stragetery now actually involves 'micro bulks'. It is a variation on carb cycling that I have been doing the last few years, but I alter my daily cals at times with large food boluses on workout days. Nothing I do specifically, just wing it most of the time .

    For me the end of 'bulk / cut' was running two successive bulk/cut cycles, gaining 30 lbs and ending up right back at where I was 7 months later. I did it again (read took me 14 months of dedicated eating to come to this conclusion), and after no real net gains, that is when I switched up my eating strategies. It is BY FAR the most effective way to gain, but it has diminishing returns over time.

    All I can say is the line you walk between mass gain and extra fat gain starts out as a road, becomes a path, then a tight-rope, and finishes off with walking a razor's edge. If you have been doing this properly, you should be able to tell when it is no longer effective.

    A lot of people never even do it right from the onset, hence they criticize the method without ever having put the effort in to do it properly and see the results pay off. Eating a surplus EVERY DAY, even only 250 cal, is HARD. Your body knows you are overeating, and you literally have to force the food in and keep it down. Doing this on a consistent basis is TOUGH. People think gaining weight is easy and say, I can eat 4000 cals. But again, try to CONSISTENTLY overeat and she how feeling like you have to throw-up every time you eat feels.
    RAW lifts
    635 Dead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mATRBZ0gwdg
    585x7 Dead reps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yf2ZkdNNNQ
    420 Bench (paused) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJ2_Q-TLIB8
    545 Squat http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qZZLnePFiI
    225 x 29 bench http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe68-LgD0jM
    Reply With Quote

  30. #30
    Registered User jademonkey's Avatar
    Join Date: Feb 2019
    Posts: 627
    Rep Power: 598
    jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500) jademonkey is a jewel in the rough. (+500)
    jademonkey is offline
    My first bulk, December through April, I ran ~350 cal surplus. That was very hard, because I was training on the bike as well and needed ~3700 calories per day on average. 9 weeks of cutting (~700 deficit) got me maybe 3% lower bf than where I was last year.

    I know I can't gain as much muscle this next year so my current bulk I reduced the surplus to ~250 target. But it's much easier because I'm not doing so much riding lately. I'm guessing it gets harder when one is huge and lean and needing 3500+ for maintenance. It was tough to come home from a big ride on Saturday at 4 pm and still need to eat another 2800 calories lol!

    I'm guesstimating a lot more now on my counting, trying to work on my "feel" for a surplus. I try and stay in a surplus every day, but I have occasional days in a deficit (even one in a 2300 calorie deficit after a hundred mile bike ride). I don't feel like these days are gonna ruin my bulk. Getting a huge surplus the next day tends to be pretty easy after those days. They don't seem to have any affect on the next day's workout either.
    Current.....................315 / 285 / 475............177 lbs
    July 1, 2019.................................................164 lbs
    Late April 2019.........285 / 275 / 440.............178 lbs
    Early March 2019......275 / 245 / 405.............173 lbs
    Oct, 2018..............175x6 / 145x6 / 275x5......163 lbs
    Reply With Quote

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts