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  1. #1
    Registered User sandaltan's Avatar
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    if the US were to establish universal / free higher education, how should it look?

    im talking college and grad / professional school.

    here are my thoughts:

    -you still have to apply and be accepted. there's no guaranteed entrance, but different universities have varying admissions standards.

    -fairly strict performance / grades standards. perhaps some limited grace period for health / family chit. no 6th year seniors. you cant stay in college for 8 years on taxpayers' dime earning a non-professional degree.

    -basket weaving and other social science programs would likely be cut / unavailable.

    -STEM would be emphasized, along with advanced professional degrees (doctors, lawyers, etc)

    -fully subsidized including room and board and full cost of living PLUS a minor stipend (we should value those who are working hard to become our future doctors, for example).

    thots?
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    Registered User Tamorlane's Avatar
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    you're talking about public post-secondary schools like what Bernie Sanders is talking about right? Not privately owned universities like Harvard.
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  3. #3
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    How much will it cost?
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    Registered User Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BigDeeps01 View Post
    How much will it cost?
    Sanders' proposal is fully-funded through a 'robin hood' tax on Wall St. It applies to public colleges, universities and trade schools.
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  5. #5
    📶 🔌🔋 99% LukeLissen's Avatar
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    No.

    Leave us alone. The rest of us don't want to pay for your stuff. Nor do we want the gov controlling higher education.

    We'll pay for our things, and you pay for your own crap OK? and keep the gov out of higher education. It already has its grubby gov hands in far too much as it is.


    If 'universal' is tacked on front of something in the political spectrum, then you can rightly assume it's part of the overall socialist totalitarian gov takeover agenda. Screw off with your evil anti-freedom state slavery agendas.
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  6. #6
    Registered User Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LukeLissen View Post
    If 'universal' is tacked on front of something in the political spectrum, then you can rightly assume it's part of the overall socialist totalitarian gov takeover agenda. Screw off with your evil anti-freedom state slavery agendas.
    The best health care systems in the world provide universal coverage. Americans pay far more per capita and still get no universal coverage. Number one cause for bankruptcies and foreclosures in the United States is medical bills.

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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    Sanders' proposal is fully-funded through a 'robin hood' tax on Wall St. It applies to public colleges, universities and trade schools.
    No thanks
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    Registered User cashinout's Avatar
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    Here's an idea

    Instead of raising people's taxes by $100/month to pay for everyone's college, we make them pay $100/month for their own education using student loans
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  10. #10
    Registered User randombrah102's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LukeLissen View Post
    No.

    Leave us alone. The rest of us don't want to pay for your stuff. Nor do we want the gov controlling higher education.

    We'll pay for our things, and you pay for your own crap OK? and keep the gov out of higher education. It already has its grubby gov hands in far too much as it is.


    If 'universal' is tacked on front of something in the political spectrum, then you can rightly assume it's part of the overall socialist totalitarian gov takeover agenda. Screw off with your evil anti-freedom state slavery agendas.

    You already pay for everyones healthcare dumbass. And not only do you pay for it you pay for it in the most inefficient way AND you also pay to fill the pockets of the billion dollar middle man industry that is insurance. Truly amazing how hard the right wing got brainwashed when it comes to healthcare.
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    Work Hard. Play Hard. XterraRob's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by randombrah102 View Post
    You already pay for everyones healthcare dumbass. And not only do you pay for it you pay for it in the most inefficient way AND you also pay to fill the pockets of the billion dollar middle man industry that is insurance. Truly amazing how hard the right wing got brainwashed when it comes to healthcare.
    Hey, there's no need for name calling. Learn to be polite and respectful of others' opinions.
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  12. #12
    Registered User sandaltan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    you're talking about public post-secondary schools like what Bernie Sanders is talking about right? Not privately owned universities like Harvard.
    correct. not necessarily converting existing universities but providing a subsidized option (which i believe would very quickly become the most prestigious and coveted schools)
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  13. #13
    Registered User sandaltan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by cashinout View Post
    Here's an idea

    Instead of raising people's taxes by $100/month to pay for everyone's college, we make them pay $100/month for their own education using student loans
    for how long?
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  14. #14
    Registered User sandaltan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by randombrah102 View Post
    You already pay for everyones healthcare dumbass. And not only do you pay for it you pay for it in the most inefficient way AND you also pay to fill the pockets of the billion dollar middle man industry that is insurance. Truly amazing how hard the right wing got brainwashed when it comes to healthcare.
    i know. its hard to stay calm about it. i dont want to give up hope but theyre pretty much a lost cause. they dont understand what happens when an american citizen goes bankrupt from medical bills. they dont understand that we're all ALREADY paying for it.

    they like to think of things like healthcare and education as mine and yours individually, not as a country as whole.

    which, in my opinion, is the opposite of patriotic. they dont understand that whats good for the nation as a whole is also good for them individually. they dont get how an educated population is good for them and their families, etc.
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    Registered User TurbanMon's Avatar
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    China, 4.7 STEM Grads / year
    USA, 568k STEM grads / year (including international students)

    People are literally taking out back-breaking student loans to take liberal arts degrees, what makes you think making college free will lead to more STEM grads? It would lead to colleges being 95% liberal arts .
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    Originally Posted by TurbanMon View Post
    China, 4.7 STEM Grads / year
    USA, 568k STEM grads / year (including international students)

    People are literally taking out back-breaking student loans to take liberal arts degrees, what makes you think making college free will lead to more STEM grads? It would lead to colleges being 95% liberal arts .
    you just ignored my premise completely. what makes you think i just want to make college free without any other changes?
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    Originally Posted by XterraRob View Post
    Hey, there's no need for name calling. Learn to be polite and respectful of others' opinions.
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    im talking college and grad / professional school.

    here are my thoughts:

    -you still have to apply and be accepted. there's no guaranteed entrance, but different universities have varying admissions standards.

    -fairly strict performance / grades standards. perhaps some limited grace period for health / family chit. no 6th year seniors. you cant stay in college for 8 years on taxpayers' dime earning a non-professional degree.

    -basket weaving and other social science programs would likely be cut / unavailable.

    -STEM would be emphasized, along with advanced professional degrees (doctors, lawyers, etc)

    -fully subsidized including room and board and full cost of living PLUS a minor stipend (we should value those who are working hard to become our future doctors, for example).

    thots?


    Doctors, Lawyers, Engineers already have the highest incomes out of college than just about any profession. Their education should not be subsidized. In fact, they should have absolutely no problem paying down their student loans.


    Also, LOLLED at subsidized room and board, full cost of living and a minor stipend for LAWYERS. Lmao, go **** yourself
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    Sanders' proposal is fully-funded through a 'robin hood' tax on Wall St. It applies to public colleges, universities and trade schools.
    So essentially take from the rich to give to the poor...Will Sanders or any of his cronies be forking over their share of the cost? I doubt it.
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    📶 🔌🔋 99% LukeLissen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by randombrah102 View Post
    You already pay for everyones healthcare dumbass. And not only do you pay for it you pay for it in the most inefficient way AND you also pay to fill the pockets of the billion dollar middle man industry that is insurance. Truly amazing how hard the right wing got brainwashed when it comes to healthcare.
    This thread is about 'free college education,' not healthcare, which oh by the way it's your leftist comrades who screwed up and made the middle man in health insurance richer by requiring all Americans to pay those middle man insurance people whether they want to or not. 'The right' didn't do that - your leftist/socialist/communist comrades did. Healthcare costs and health insurance costs have gone up dramatically for everyone I know, and so have profits for health insurance companies, since your fellow leftist clowns screwed it all up.

    You're literally derping over your own derpness and insulting others about your own derpness. Classic. Thanks for the laugh, communist.

    and there's no such thing as 'free higher education' - schools and their staff have to get paid and all the other expenses have to be paid, and it would bankrupt us all to pay for college for everyone. Only those who can afford it or find a way to fund it themselves should be partaking of it. That's the way a rational world works. I know that hard fact of life is impossible for a irrational-thinking communist 'useful idiot' to understand, but it's a fact of the way the real world works, nonetheless.
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    I'm not too particularly thrilled about government controlling every aspect of society, but I'll play.

    Purely hypothetical, if we were to transfer to that system, there really needs to be a strict process when it comes to enrollment. No focus on demographics favoritism or fulfilling a quota. The focus should be solely on one's merit; getting the best and brightest to strengthen the country.

    Second, if people are a getting a "free" education, then they should be expected to serve X amount of years in some sort of public service capacity after graduation. It gives back to the community and gives work experience. Military service would be acceptable. Also, since their getting a "free" education, if you party or dik around, you get booted for someone that will take the education program seriously.

    If doctors, nurses and other healthcare workers got free education, I'd hope that the cost of services at hospitals would come down, as they didn't have to pay anything for that education (I know that's a pipe dream though).

    I don't think all non-STEM degrees should be cut from a public university but many could be pushed down to the CC level.

    Again, purely hypothetical and thinking with an open mind. I don't expect none of that to happen.
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    I could get behind paying for the first two years, say community college or trades programs. Problem though, and I'm seeing it now at CCs is that a lot of low class fuks end up ruining programs by filling classes up and then dumping them when it's clear they're not going to cut it. A lot of my classes were only half empty by the end of my first year at CC-seats that were denied to people who might actually make something of their education simply because there's not enough space. I'm nearing the end of my AS program and almost had to delay my degree a whole fukkin year because of this bullcrap.

    In essence I'm for higher education, but against wastefulness. This doesn't even take into consideration the lowering of standards, even unintentionally, by hordes of fukkups who can't follow along.

    In addition, education is cheap! $40 a unit x 60 units. $2400 and you have a 2 year degree or two years worth of transfer units. Cal Poly Pomona tuition is $8000 a year. One can feasibly get a 4 year degree for less than $20,000 (units cost-books and chit extra). This is nothing compared to the benefit. Either save up or work for it, likely a better result in the end than having it handed to you like the worthless high school diploma...
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  23. #23
    Registered Republican Omnivium's Avatar
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    Just no. Why should I pay for your college? Pay for it yourself comrade
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    Lol why would I go to college just to get a good job just so I can fork over most of it to pay for someone elses college?

    Here's an idea, instead of forcing people to pay for other peoples' college, how about we bring the cost of college education down to an acceptable level? You morons don't realize that the cost of college skyrocketed once the government started subsidizing it with student loans. It's because the schools know they can charge whatever they want because the government will pay and idiot 18 year olds don't understand how deferred interest loans work.
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    Originally Posted by otisthebat View Post
    Lol why would I go to college just to get a good job just so I can fork over most of it to pay for someone elses college?

    Here's an idea, instead of forcing people to pay for other peoples' college, how about we bring the cost of college education down to an acceptable level? You morons don't realize that the cost of college skyrocketed once the government started subsidizing it with student loans. It's because the schools know they can charge whatever they want because the government will pay and idiot 18 year olds don't understand how deferred interest loans work.
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    Secondary schools are only very expensive due to government backed student loans which are guaranteed money for lenders and schools.

    I hypothesize that post high school education would me MUCH cheaper if government subsidized loans did not exist. How could giving the government MORE control over education make it any less expensive for tax payers?
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    Poor people already go to college for free, many times including free room and board. The rich can already afford college. Its the middle class that ends up getting fukd in the whole deal. Would this proposal be targeted at the people who actually need help paying for school...the middle class? Or is this just another giveaway to the poor?
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    The best health care systems in the world provide universal coverage. Americans pay far more per capita and still get no universal coverage. Number one cause for bankruptcies and foreclosures in the United States is medical bills.

    Best systems by what standards?

    There is a reason people with the means travel from all around the world to the US for medical care.
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    Registered User wesleysh21's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JoshSP1985 View Post
    Best systems by what standards?

    There is a reason people with the means travel from all around the world to the US for medical care.
    They come here for healthcare, if their government allows them to. When their government tells them they have to stay in the hospital and rot...they have to do that too.
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    It should have strict requirements to begin with - minimum GPA in HS and good attendance, etc. And also strict maintenance requirements - Must maintain certain GPA (obvious), level of attendance, only certain Majors allowed, etc.

    Conversely, trade schools should also be promoted. There is going to be a massive shortage of electricians and plumbers and other trades in the very near future.
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