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  1. #1
    Registered User ralphlaurenbrah's Avatar
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    Why can’t Germany make reliable cars?

    I don’t understand. Mercedes and BMW’s reliability is truly disgusting. Every single person I have talked to that has owned either brand has spent soooooo much money on their cars and the people that I know that currently own these brands all have their cars in the shop on a regular basis. Meanwhile you can buy a Japanese car that will literally run until the wheels come off. What’s the deal?
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  2. #2
    test the limits RobParks2M's Avatar
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    Merc seem fairly reliable tbh.
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  3. #3
    Registered User DoragonKingu's Avatar
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    Don't forget Audi
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  4. #4
    Maximum effort Benjinkan's Avatar
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    I've owned several Mercs and Audis, never had an issue with any of them. No personal experience with BMWs, but I know several people who swear by them... what the hell do you Ameribrahs do to them that makes them fall apart?!
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  5. #5
    This too shall pass dazlittle's Avatar
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    Merc and Audi owner here, never had any issues with them.
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  6. #6
    Manlets gonna make it Natty1980's Avatar
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    In my family we owned 3 Mercedes and a BMW (last one mfg 2016) and never, ever had a single problem.
    You know what happens in my opinion? Most people are into German cars but cannot afford them so they buy (ab)used, fuked-up cars for prices too good to be true, then complain because they break up.
    If you buy a new or certified pre-owned Mercedes / BMW with warranty, you won't have any issues.
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  7. #7
    Registered User andy0w's Avatar
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    Germans produce perfect cars for perfect people and perfect petrol.

    These cars just don't work with imperfect people.

    Use rubbish fuel and you won't be happy either.

    Use a 3rd world car like Mitsubishi L200 or Toyota Landcruiser. Or something Russian for Winter. Air-cooled Zaporoshet, for example.
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  8. #8
    Ambitious but Rubbish thenamenottaken's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Benjinkan View Post
    I've owned several Mercs and Audis, never had an issue with any of them. No personal experience with BMWs, but I know several people who swear by them... what the hell do you Ameribrahs do to them that makes them fall apart?!

    Because they are made by fat, lazy, union flag waving, beef jerky, Monster and smokes consuming, L&I claiming 'Muhricans. I don't know. Just a guess.


    Although, most auto manufacturers, even Japanese ones, go through their chit phases for quality, design or engineering.
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  9. #9
    Registered User Beararms's Avatar
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    Idk what the issue with them is, but every time I see a used one for sale its ALWAYS in the 50k-80k mile mark, right when the warranty runs out.
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  10. #10
    Banned lastchance2019's Avatar
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    Is this broscience?

    Higher performance cars are way harder to maintain
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  11. #11
    Registered User TappingTheZen's Avatar
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    Yeah because there's no 20-30 year old german cars on the road...

    oh wait
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  12. #12
    Registered User iifymbro's Avatar
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    family been BMW fanboys/girls for decades and never had a srs issue with any of them.

    Been driving either BMW or VW since I was 16, never had a srs issue with any of them.

    idk brah they seem pretty reliable to me.
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  13. #13
    Registered User tunafishha's Avatar
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    Op, u mad I get a new mercedes and bmw every year?

    [$poilers]u mad[/$poilers]
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  14. #14
    Registered User Judgment's Avatar
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    Stop buying 5 year old used luxury vehicles. You still can't afford them. Get it new and it won't be a problem.
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  15. #15
    Beardiful tng83's Avatar
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    Nevermind that Porsche is one of the most reliable brands on the planet.
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  16. #16
    Registered User jeffl1980's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by andy0w View Post
    Germans produce perfect cars for perfect people and perfect petrol.

    These cars just don't work with imperfect people.

    Use rubbish fuel and you won't be happy either.

    Use a 3rd world car like Mitsubishi L200 or Toyota Landcruiser. Or something Russian for Winter. Air-cooled Zaporoshet, for example.
    How is a Toyota Land Cruiser a third world car? They MSRP at 85k...........
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  17. #17
    RN and vette crew 1QWIK7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FukinRetard View Post
    Not sure wtf everyone is talking about. German cars are good for 50k miles before all the problems start. Some of this is by design. For example Germans think it is totally acceptable for a radiator to have to be replaced at 50K.

    Most people who claim they never had a problem are people who get a brand new leased car every 3 years. Try buying and used one or owning one long term.

    Actually that's probably the only bright approach in driving a german car.

    Just lease them, then when the 3 years is over, give it back. No thanks on owning ANY german car after the warranty expires. Even AMG cars which, IMHO, are bulletproof.
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  18. #18
    Taiwan waisoserious's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ralphlaurenbrah View Post
    I don’t understand. Mercedes and BMW’s reliability is truly disgusting. Every single person I have talked to that has owned either brand has spent soooooo much money on their cars and the people that I know that currently own these brands all have their cars in the shop on a regular basis. Meanwhile you can buy a Japanese car that will literally run until the wheels come off. What’s the deal?
    I think there is too much generalization when talking about reliability.

    1. The more features and technology you add to a device, the more the reliability is compromised because of the simple fact that there are more items that can fail. You cant compare the reliability of a 1990 Camry to that of a 2019 C-Class. If the 2019 C-Class was also only making 110hp out of a 1.6Liter with no radar cruise control, power seats, blue tooth, navigation or air suspension so that it rode like it was on popped airbags like the Camry, it too would be just as reliable. Probably much more reliable.

    2. Regardless of what ANYBODY says, the simple fact of the matter is the reliability of cars has gone down even though there ARE more features and newer technologies crammed into each vehicle. If you compare only German brands, the problems-per-100-vehicles of 2011-2019 compared to 2000-2010 is like half. Meaning for 100 vehicles in 2005 you might have 300 problems combined between 100 vehicles but in 2015 you only have 150 for the same amount of vehicles.

    3. Performance vs Reliability. In terms of reliability a 2.0 Liter making 100hp will last much longer than the same engine making 200hp. But the precision or durability of engines now are much greater than that of engines of previous decades.

    4. Bad Quality vs Bad Design. Alot of problems are caused because they want a car to go faster. Over the long term, things are realized to be poor design that makers could not foresee because of sample size/only testing in a certain weather/country etc

    5. Most cheapo cars are FWD. Most German cars (except Audi) are RWD and some AWD. FWD is the cheapest and most reliable because the engine is mounted directly ontop of the transmission and doesnt need an additional long drive shaft to connect the engine to the rear wheels. This simplicity makes cars lighter, cheaper to make, and more reliable because of less moving parts.
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  19. #19
    Taiwan waisoserious's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by FukinRetard View Post
    Not sure wtf everyone is talking about. German cars are good for 50k miles before all the problems start. Some of this is by design. For example Germans think it is totally acceptable for a radiator to have to be replaced at 50K.

    Most people who claim they never had a problem are people who get a brand new leased car every 3 years. Try buying and used one or owning one long term.
    We had a 400SEL that we bought in like 1992 and a S350 that we bought in like 2002. Both bought new and both owned for (400sel) 10 years (S350) 14 years. Neither cars had major issues. Regular maintenance was done only.

    Vacuum Doors (soft close function) failed after about 10 yrs on the S350 but was never replaced because who cares. The air suspension on the S350 was replaced after about 12yrs.

    Pretty reasonable I think.

    If the S350 was a S55 and had 2 more cylinders and 300 more horse power, then yes of course you can expect more issues.
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  20. #20
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    Originally Posted by dazlittle View Post
    Merc and Audi owner here, never had any issues with them.
    Which Audis? Just curious.
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  21. #21
    rapscallion gluon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by waisoserious View Post
    I think there is too much generalization when talking about reliability.

    1. The more features and technology you add to a device, the more the reliability is compromised because of the simple fact that there are more items that can fail. You cant compare the reliability of a 1990 Camry to that of a 2019 C-Class. If the 2019 C-Class was also only making 110hp out of a 1.6Liter with no radar cruise control, power seats, blue tooth, navigation or air suspension so that it rode like it was on popped airbags like the Camry, it too would be just as reliable. Probably much more reliable.

    2. Regardless of what ANYBODY says, the simple fact of the matter is the reliability of cars has gone down even though there ARE more features and newer technologies crammed into each vehicle. If you compare only German brands, the problems-per-100-vehicles of 2011-2019 compared to 2000-2010 is like half. Meaning for 100 vehicles in 2005 you might have 300 problems combined between 100 vehicles but in 2015 you only have 150 for the same amount of vehicles.

    3. Performance vs Reliability. In terms of reliability a 2.0 Liter making 100hp will last much longer than the same engine making 200hp. But the precision or durability of engines now are much greater than that of engines of previous decades.

    4. Bad Quality vs Bad Design. Alot of problems are caused because they want a car to go faster. Over the long term, things are realized to be poor design that makers could not foresee because of sample size/only testing in a certain weather/country etc

    5. Most cheapo cars are FWD. Most German cars (except Audi) are RWD and some AWD. FWD is the cheapest and most reliable because the engine is mounted directly ontop of the transmission and doesnt need an additional long drive shaft to connect the engine to the rear wheels. This simplicity makes cars lighter, cheaper to make, and more reliable because of less moving parts.
    1. more features shouldn't interfere with the reliability of the critical components, no one is claiming a car is unreliable because the seat heaters broke

    2. see#1

    3. nope, you are paying more for the 200hp 2.0 liter because it includes more robust components that if designed correctly can be even more reliable than a 100hp 2.0l.

    4. wut? its the engineers jobs to foresee stuff that's the keystone of reliability, either way that is what recalls are for.

    5. you cant say fwd is more reliable thar rwd as a blanket statement, some rwd designs are more reliable than some fwd and vice vesa, fwd is just cheaper to implement.



    you seem to have this idea that: more components=less reliability

    that's equivalent to saying: a sum of 5 numbers is always less than a sum of 10 numbers

    obviously thats absurd
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  22. #22
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    Because they’re not that smart compared to the Japanese
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  23. #23
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    Originally Posted by gluon View Post
    1. more features shouldn't interfere with the reliability of the critical components, no one is claiming a car is unreliable because the seat heaters broke

    2. see#1

    3. nope, you are paying more for the 200hp 2.0 liter because it includes more robust components that if designed correctly can be even more reliable than a 100hp 2.0l.

    4. wut? its the engineers jobs to foresee stuff that's the keystone of reliability, either way that is what recalls are for.

    5. you cant say fwd is more reliable thar rwd as a blanket statement, some rwd designs are more reliable than some fwd and vice vesa, fwd is just cheaper to implement.


    you seem to have this idea that: more components=less reliability

    that's equivalent to saying: a sum of 5 numbers is always less than a sum of 10 numbers

    obviously thats absurd
    1&2
    No. More moving parts = less durability.

    Just like how 2 pieces put together is not as strong as 1 single piece.

    Both of these concepts affect reliability.

    Even in electronics, the more features, programs and electronics you have interface with each other, the higher the chance that 1 of them will not work properly together or fail individually. If program A has a 5% chance to crash and you have 20 programs running at the same time, the chance that 1 of them will crash is high. Like how a windows 95 PC will crash more often than a PC running MS-DOS.

    3. I dunno wtf u are even talking about. Price is not mentioned anywhere in 3. 3 is about hp/liter and reliabliity being inverse.

    4. Bad quality is like something being put assembled poorly. Bad design is like the S85/S65 BMW engines. BMW designed the Connecting Rod and Connecting Rod bearings to have X amount of clearance for lubrication and recommend using Y lubricant. But when the weather gets colder/warmer Y lubricant becomes too viscous to work as originally intended because BMW only tested 2 or 3 cars in a certain climate.

    5. it is completely true. A FWD vehicle has less chance of failing compared to the exact same vehicle that is RWD or AWD. You cant twist this to say "oh well FWD tranny is made by china and AWD/RWD is German made so this isnt true". If you said that about everything, then it would not be the same vehicle and we would not be comparing apples to apples.

    These are facts and you are completely wrong.
    Last edited by waisoserious; 10-22-2019 at 09:38 PM.
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  24. #24
    rapscallion gluon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by waisoserious View Post
    1&2
    No. More moving parts = less durability.

    Just like how 2 pieces put together is not as strong as 1 single piece.

    Both of these concepts affect reliability.

    Even in electronics, the more features, programs and electronics you have interface with each other, the higher the chance that 1 of them will not work properly together or fail individually. If program A has a 5% chance to crash and you have 20 programs running at the same time, the chance that 1 of them will crash is high. Like how a windows 95 PC will crash more often than a PC running MS-DOS.

    3. I dunno wtf u are even talking about. Price is not mentioned anywhere in 3. 3 is about hp/liter and reliabliity being inverse.

    4. Bad quality is like something being put assembled poorly. Bad design is like the S85/S65 BMW engines. BMW designed the Connecting Rod and Connecting Rod bearings to have X amount of clearance for lubrication and recommend using Y lubricant. But when the weather gets colder/warmer Y lubricant becomes too viscous to work as originally intended because BMW only tested 2 or 3 cars in a certain climate.

    5. it is completely true. A FWD vehicle has less chance of failing compared to the exact same vehicle that is RWD or AWD. You cant twist this to say "oh well FWD tranny is made by china and AWD/RWD is German made so this isnt true". If you said that about everything, then it would not be the same vehicle and we would not be comparing apples to apples.

    These are facts and you are completely wrong.

    lmao, maybe learn about how reliability works before you make comments about something you know nothing about.

    The number of components tells you NOTHING about reliability if you don't know the reliability of each component.


    without having to teach you a full course in reliability ill give you one simple example,

    System A is made of 2 components in series with with 95% reliability each @ 200k miles
    System B is made of 3 components in series with 98% reliability each @ 200k miles

    which one has higher reliability?
    ill give you a hint, its system B



    5. you are the one comparing chepo fwd cars with german rwd cars, either way there is no apples to apples even if its the same car because they are DIFFERENT things. a company can build a rwd as reliably as they could a fwd. They can build anything as reliable as they want ffs.

    Is this the first time you have attempted using logic before, feels like i'm arguing with a 10 year old girl
    Last edited by gluon; 10-22-2019 at 11:13 PM.
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  25. #25
    Taiwan waisoserious's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gluon View Post
    lmao, maybe learn about how reliability works before you make comments about something you know nothing about.

    The number of components tells you NOTHING about reliability if you don't know the reliability of each component.


    without having to teach you a full course in reliability ill give you one simple example,

    System A is made of 2 components in series with with 95% reliability each @ 200k miles
    System B is made of 3 components in series with 98% reliability each @ 200k miles

    which one has higher reliability?
    ill give you a hint, its system B



    5. you are the one comparing chepo fwd cars with german rwd cars, either way there is no apples to apples even if its the same car because they are DIFFERENT things. a company can build a rwd as reliably as they could a fwd. They can build anything as reliable as they want ffs.

    Is this the first time you have attempted using logic before, feels like i'm arguing with a 10 year old girl
    I really really hope you are trolling lmao. Jesus yikes!

    Maybe we should also account for whether or not the guy assembling the Toyota car argued with his girlfriend the night before or if the guy assembling the Mercedes is a Vegan? You know? Cause being a vegan could cause a hormonal in-balance which might make him moody and assembly the dash improperly.

    Do you know how to make a comparison? When you are trying to compare DESIGN it means you are not comparing hypotheticals that you cannot prove like if Car A was purposely built 2% less reliably than Car B. Or purposely made with inferior components. You are only comparing things that you know are different while assuming everything else is equal. That is how a comparison works.

    Making a structure multiple pieces instead of just 1 will always make it less durable than if it was 1 piece. Making a car RWD/AWD vs FWD requires more pieces. Adding SAT nav to a car instead of just an FM radio will give it more opportunities to not work as expected.

    A 2 piece Wheel is less structurally sound than 1 piece wheel, if they are both forged and made of the same material and same people.

    Mental retardation can be treated bro...get help its not too late to see a doctor and finish community college.
    Last edited by waisoserious; 10-23-2019 at 01:49 AM.
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  26. #26
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    It's simple....Germans want to be at the forefront of technology you can stuff into a car. However, at the same time they spend so much money developing/adopting that technology so they have to cut on quality of parts being used to make that technology so their cars don't cost half a mil.
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  27. #27
    rapscallion gluon's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by waisoserious View Post
    I really really hope you are trolling lmao. Jesus yikes!

    Maybe we should also account for whether or not the guy assembling the Toyota car argued with his girlfriend the night before or if the guy assembling the Mercedes is a Vegan? You know? Cause being a vegan could cause a hormonal in-balance which might make him moody and assembly the dash improperly.

    Do you know how to make a comparison? When you are trying to compare DESIGN it means you are not comparing hypotheticals that you cannot prove like if Car A was purposely built 2% less reliably than Car B. Or purposely made with inferior components. You are only comparing things that you know are different while assuming everything else is equal. That is how a comparison works.

    Making a structure multiple pieces instead of just 1 will always make it less durable than if it was 1 piece. Making a car RWD/AWD vs FWD requires more pieces. Adding SAT nav to a car instead of just an FM radio will give it more opportunities to not work as expected.

    A 2 piece Wheel is less structurally sound than 1 piece wheel, if they are both forged and made of the same material and same people.

    Mental retardation can be treated bro...get help its not too late to see a doctor and finish community college.

    clearly you can never admit you are wrong even in the face of simple irrefutable proof.

    you are hopeless. your argument is completely non-sequitur, complete lunacy, comparing engineering design principles with random "girlfriend" hypotheticals is absurd, you clearly lost this argument since you are now just talking out of you ass.

    they don't just take a fwd system and just add parts and viola!:rwd, thats what your argument requires, lmao. Its a different machine with a different design. what a loon. can you even conceive of the differences in how stresses are distributed in a fwd vs a rwd system? and how that effects reliability and design? nah son i didn't think so

    herp derp 3+5 is less than 1+2+3 because its less numbers and less numbers means always means less------essentially your argument, try better next-time lightweight
    Last edited by gluon; 10-23-2019 at 09:45 PM.
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  28. #28
    Registered User sickkentbrah's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by gluon View Post
    clearly you can never admit you are wrong even in the face of simple irrefutable proof.

    you are hopeless. your argument is completely non-sequitur, complete lunacy, comparing engineering design principles with random "girlfriend" hypotheticals is absurd, you clearly lost this argument since you are now just talking out of you ass.

    they don't just take a fwd system and just add parts and viola!:rwd, thats what your argument requires, lmao. Its a different machine with a different design. what a loon. can you even conceive of the differences in how stresses are distributed in a fwd vs a rwd system? and how that effects reliability and design? nah son i didn't think so

    herp derp 3+5 is less than 1+2+3 because its less numbers and less numbers means always means less------essentially your argument, try better next-time lightweight
    you are correct, other dude has a small brain.

    also, i have owned 3 bmws.. the only things that all german cars are known for are oil leaks, if you are somewhat knowledgeable you will do due diligence and maintain your "SPORTS" car
    i.e. spark plugs, air filter, oil change, tire rotation, alignment at specific intervals

    bmw 528 - 0 issues ( 4 cylinder )
    bmw x5 - mass airflow sensor needed replacement after using a tune
    bmw m6 - mass airflow sensor needed replacement
    mercedes c43 - 0 issues so far


    unfortunately most people don't cant even stay at a healthy bodyfat % (were on bodybuilding.com), you expect them to maintain their vehicles?
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  29. #29
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    Originally Posted by Jax05 View Post
    It's simple....Germans want to be at the forefront of technology you can stuff into a car. However, at the same time they spend so much money developing/adopting that technology so they have to cut on quality of parts being used to make that technology so their cars don't cost half a mil.
    you confused german with italians and Argentinians bro.

    italian cars are the biggest money pits, as well as jaguar range rovers you have no idea how good german cars are versus those
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  30. #30
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    Originally Posted by tng83 View Post
    Nevermind that Porsche is one of the most reliable brands on the planet.
    Lmao sure until the IMS bearing grenades the entire engine at 60k miles. Might as well have a rotary engine.
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