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  1. #31
    🅳🅰🆂 🅸🆃 Luc1fer's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pechorin View Post
    im for abortions at any time.

    a baby born into a family that doesn't want it, can't support it, more likely to be a net negative to society and will cost the taxpayers. why not give them an out?
    Are you okay with it immediately after birth?
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  2. #32
    u wot m8 pechorin's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Luc1fer View Post
    Are you okay with it immediately after birth?
    Just thought about it for 5 mins and no. Not okay with it. Can’t explain the logic behind it. Don’t even think I’m okay with late term abortion either. I asked myself where do I draw the line. And I don’t know the answer to that question or why is there a line to begin with.

    The whole thing is an unfortunate situation to begin with but I know sometimes, it has to happen. Fascinating question honestly.
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  3. #33
    Registered User Contribution05's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by 89FoxBody View Post
    Being dead is better than having a difficult life? What the fuk? Babe Ruth, Nelson Mandela, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jamie Foxx, Steve Jobs...all have something in common: they were adopted kids. Oprah Winfrey was molested and ran away from home at age 13. Jim Carrey lived in a van as a child. Woody Harrelson's dad was a serial killer. Kelsey Grammar's dad, sister, and two half brothers all died. I guess all those people would have been better off dead since their childhoods might have sucked?

    Bad take, bro.
    and for those few who beat the odds, there are countless who didn't and ended up a burden on the system, criminals, and being an overall plague on other humans. His opinion right or wrong is not countered by you throwing out a few success stories.
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  4. #34
    Oderint dum metuant irmocool's Avatar
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    I love all the self righteousness in this thread. As if anything anyone writes will change the fact that death can and will strike whenever the phuck it wants, whether by human intervention or nature.
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  5. #35
    Here's beer Mr Beer's Avatar
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    Pro choice...up to around 3 months.

    Aborting immediately before birth is fukked up, in the same way that aborting immediately after conception would be completely trivial.
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  6. #36
    Registered Cass Cass40's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pechorin View Post
    Just thought about it for 5 mins and no. Not okay with it. Can’t explain the logic behind it. Don’t even think I’m okay with late term abortion either. I asked myself where do I draw the line. And I don’t know the answer to that question or why is there a line to begin with.

    The whole thing is an unfortunate situation to begin with but I know sometimes, it has to happen. Fascinating question honestly.
    Well that's the problem, we don't know where to draw the line. How would anyone know? But it has to be drawn somewhere and it has to be much sooner than just before birth.

    It's just funny that some law makes that distinction when someone becomes a person. Like day ago you were not human but now you have rights.
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  7. #37
    Rustler nnodcvcker's Avatar
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    I am pro assisted suicide.
    I'll let you extrapolate
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  8. #38
    Forever College Student CaliSuperSport's Avatar
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    Not since I saw those abortion clinic vids with people playing with dead fetuses like they were puppets.

    fukin psychos.
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  9. #39
    not considered normal pUniCepts's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Luc1fer View Post
    Are you okay with it immediately after birth?
    I am, but not because you just don't want it.
    I watched my dog kill one of it's litter right after birth. I've concluded she sensed a defect in the pup that made it unlikely to survive.
    We have ultrasound and all kinds of other stuff nowadays and we've grown out of touch with nature, and our senses.
    Not saying I could ever abort at any time, because emotions become involved, but being detached from the situation I'm not against it.
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    Well that's the problem, we don't know where to draw the line. How would anyone know? But it has to be drawn somewhere and it has to be much sooner than just before birth.

    It's just funny that some law makes that distinction when someone becomes a person. Like day ago you were not human but now you have rights.
    like turning 18. Vote, sign contracts, buy cigarettes, die for country, etc. But yesterday? no way
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  11. #41
    Registered Cass Cass40's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pUniCepts View Post
    like turning 18. Vote, sign contracts, buy cigarettes, die for country, etc. But yesterday? no way
    I don't see it the same way. Children have less rights and responsibilities based on age, however one month old baby has the same right to be alive as a 80 -year old.
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  12. #42
    Forever College Student CaliSuperSport's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    I don't see it the same way. Children have less rights and responsibilities based on age, however one month old baby has the same right to be alive as a 80 -year old.
    supposed to be that way, but there's people who have managed to dehumanize them.
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  13. #43
    Registered User tnel00's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by katya422 View Post
    Even if the baby isn't going to make it?

    Curious about people that hold this position. It isn't like childbirth is risk free for the mother.

    Even now in the US something like 24 in 100K women die giving birth. And:



    So a woman should suffer the pain, trauma, and potential serious complications or death for a baby that will not live more than a few days? Weeks? Can you even give a specific number of breaths the child must draw to make it worth the mother's suffering?
    I think most people are ok with abortions for medical reasons, or rape.

    Let’s talk about the other 99% of abortion’s.
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  14. #44
    Registered User tnel00's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pUniCepts View Post
    I am, but not because you just don't want it.
    I watched my dog kill one of it's litter right after birth. I've concluded she sensed a defect in the pup that made it unlikely to survive.
    We have ultrasound and all kinds of other stuff nowadays and we've grown out of touch with nature, and our senses.
    Not saying I could ever abort at any time, because emotions become involved, but being detached from the situation I'm not against it.
    Did you just compare human morality to that of a dog?
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  15. #45
    rapscallion gluon's Avatar
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    anyone who has kids and supports abortions is an absurd individual

    "son i love you, but I support being able to have killed you before you were born"
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  16. #46
    big💍💍💍 BigRangs's Avatar
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    Up to 5 years old because that is more than enough time to decide if you like them or not, and also leaves you with enough time to try for another better one.
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  17. #47
    Registered Cass Cass40's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CaliSuperSport View Post
    supposed to be that way, but there's people who have managed to dehumanize them.
    It's just so weird how everything is decided. Like if the baby has some deformities, then it's okay to abort later date, however, if that person happens to live and someone were to kill them, I doubt the killer would get a lighter sentence by claiming "well he had all these mental and physical deformities so I shouldn't get long sentence".
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  18. #48
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    Originally Posted by A-GAME View Post
    There are people that believe in abortion after birth.

    "When circumstances occur after birth such that they would have justified abortion, what we call after-birth abortion should be permissible. … We propose to call this practice ‘after-birth abortion’, rather than ‘infanticide,’ to emphasize that the moral status of the individual killed is comparable with that of a fetus … rather than to that of a child. Therefore, we claim that killing a newborn could be ethically permissible in all the circumstances where abortion would be. Such circumstances include cases where the newborn has the potential to have an (at least) acceptable life, but the well-being of the family is at risk."

    https://slate.com/technology/2012/03...fanticide.html

    These people should be dropped in a pool of acid.
    this could be an argument someone makes to show how ridiculous some of the arguments for abortion are.
    Is there no limit to what people will believe if it is prefaced by the phrase,
    "Scientists say" ?

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  19. #49
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    Interesting to read how people base their morality. Arguments in support of abortion because of convenience and to save money are not very convincing IMO. Those kinds of arguments would lead to a horrible society if applied consistently and universally. People think they are entitled to a life free of adversity, free of special needs kids, free of inconvenience because they made poor choices, etc.
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  20. #50
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    Abortion should be legal up to the point of viability. After that, only for rare medical necessity.
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  21. #51
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    No, not up to birth. I don't know anybody who's OK with that
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    The only instances of late abortion are due to medical necessity which make either the medical condition of the foetus incompatible with life or serious medical risk to the mother

    I am pro-choice within first trimester and up to development of neural pathways that enable the prospect of brain function (so circa 20-22 weeks).

    I believe that the same catastrophic brain injury that would result in the diagnosis of brain death in an adult should be applied to a foetus to denote the stage at which “human life” starts. It is divorced from the potentiality for human life argument that leads to the pro life debate and is based on development of neural pathways and cerebellum folding.

    I am also pro-abortion beyond that point for conditions that relate to foetal abnormality incompatible with life post birth or severe medical risk to mother in continuing the pregnancy.

    For the latter case post 24 weeks it would be a medically induced birth or c section with extra-uterine medical support to give the baby a chance of life outside the womb, despite the huge risk of mental or physical deficiency
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    Based on all the replies in this thread - why do all the dem candidates want unrestricted abortion at any point during the pregnancy?

    You have to be sick in the head.

    When you all grow up and see your child on an ultrasound at 8 weeks with a beating heart you’ll suddenly question abortion again and grow up. I know I never truly understood what a heart beat would look like until I saw it with my eyes
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    Originally Posted by backinbusiness View Post
    Based on all the replies in this thread - why do all the dem candidates want unrestricted abortion at any point during the pregnancy?
    People wouldn’t do that would they? They wouldn’t like post an outright lie on the internet and pretend it to be true


    Originally Posted by backinbusiness View Post
    You have to be sick in the head.
    Pretty much my thoughts

    Originally Posted by backinbusiness View Post
    When you all grow up and see your child on an ultrasound at 8 weeks with a beating heart you’ll suddenly question abortion again and grow up. I know I never truly understood what a heart beat would look like until I saw it with my eyes
    divorce your emotional reaction to your own much wanted child developing in utero from the wider debate, a heartbeat unfortunately does not denote life
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    I think abortions should be legal thru the 4th trimester. You don’t know what kind of kid you are going to end up with and I’d be nice to see first before you have to keep it.
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    Originally Posted by Mr Beer View Post
    Pro choice...up to around 3 months.
    Similar, only that I put the figure at 5 months rather than 3.

    Why 5? The earliest born, viable human was born at around this mark. As far as my logic goes, anything under this is "unviable" and thus still in development.

    It's an arbitrary line drawn in the sand, but as far as compromises go I think it's reasonable.
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    Originally Posted by Spyrith View Post
    Similar, only that I put the figure at 5 months rather than 3.

    Why 5? The earliest born, viable human was born at around this mark. As far as my logic goes, anything under this is "unviable" and thus still in development.

    It's an arbitrary line drawn in the sand, but as far as compromises go I think it's reasonable.
    At 22 weeks, even with all the medical advances we have now, there is less than s 2% chance that a baby out of utero will survive without severe mental and physical complications

    We should probably also look to why we put resources into trying to save seriously pre term babies when we are consigning them to somewhat impossible lives with an extremely low chance of high enough functioning to survive independently
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    It's an fairly insignificant issue IMO.

    I'd keep it simple and say abortion is legal.

    After birth, it's not abortion, and no longer legal.

    Is it fukked up? Yes.

    Does it place high on the list of fukked up things humans do? No.
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    Originally Posted by 89FoxBody View Post
    Being dead is better than having a difficult life? What the fuk? Babe Ruth, Nelson Mandela, Eleanor Roosevelt, Jamie Foxx, Steve Jobs...all have something in common: they were adopted kids. Oprah Winfrey was molested and ran away from home at age 13. Jim Carrey lived in a van as a child. Woody Harrelson's dad was a serial killer. Kelsey Grammar's dad, sister, and two half brothers all died. I guess all those people would have been better off dead since their childhoods might have sucked?

    Bad take, bro.
    To be fair those are extreme outliers, What if 99% are as described in the other post and only .001% end up as you described? still worth?
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    Originally Posted by Rabbitjb View Post
    I am pro-choice within first trimester and up to development of neural pathways that enable the prospect of brain function (so circa 20-22 weeks).

    I believe that the same catastrophic brain injury that would result in the diagnosis of brain death in an adult should be applied to a foetus to denote the stage at which “human life” starts. It is divorced from the potentiality for human life argument that leads to the pro life debate and is based on development of neural pathways and cerebellum folding.
    I also lean towards potential brain function development as the line, but we should lean very conservatively on this. Like you said first trimester, somewhere clearly before that development.

    Of course the obvious counter argument is that brain function is constantly developing from conception, from the initial replicating DNA cells to the structures that enable those neural pathways.

    A counter to the 'catastrophic brain injury' argument is, if the adult got the diagnosis of brain death but we predicted that within a few months there would be full recovery, would we still be okay with the killing.
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