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  1. #61
    Somebody's daughter Retoaded's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by badreligion View Post
    Is there even any historical proof that Jesus was real?
    Originally Posted by Jayarbie View Post
    There is not (other than the Holy Fable), but, you know, record keeping back then wasn't up to today's standards, so I'll keep an open mind about that.

    The fake news part is God being the father when he was obviously named Jesus after their Mexican gardener, who is the real father.
    Originally Posted by Redfish225 View Post
    No, lol.

    But in the US alone over 50 BILLION is dumped into church from the church folk.

    Fukin lmao son.
    There is supporting evidence from Roman historians that are deemed reliable that Jesus certainly existed. Obviously his divinity is what is in question. Tacitus, who is considered the greatest historian in ancient Rome, not only confirms that Jesus existed, but also that he was crucified and sentenced to that crucifiction by Pontius Pilate. He also confirms the outbreak in Christianity that happened later. The texts of Tacitus are considered very reliable.

    It is ironic that the condescending atheists in this thread are mocking Christians for believing in fairy tales, and yet are wrong and uneducated about the likely existence of Jesus...they should probably educate themselves before they mock others.
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  2. #62
    Registered User numberguy12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Retoaded View Post
    There is supporting evidence from Roman historians that are deemed reliable that Jesus certainly existed. Obviously his divinity is what is in question. Tacitus, who is considered the greatest historian in ancient Rome, not only confirms that Jesus existed, but also that he was crucified and sentenced to that crucifiction by Pontius Pilate. He also confirms the outbreak in Christianity that happened later. The texts of Tacitus are considered very reliable.

    It is ironic that the condescending atheists in this thread are mocking Christians for believing in fairy tales, and yet are wrong and uneducated about the likely existence of Jesus...they should probably educate themselves before they mock others.
    These points are repeatedly being addressed, to the point I am repeating the content of the posts, and yet here we have for the like the 4th or 5th time, the very same response "bbb.b.b Jesephus and/or Tacitus! Thus Jesus existed you uneducated peons!". Kind of hilarious.
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  3. #63
    Somebody's daughter Retoaded's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by numberguy12 View Post
    These points are repeatedly being addressed, to the point I am repeating the content of the posts, and yet here we have for the like the 4th or 5th time, the very same response "bbb.b.b Jesephus and Tacitus! Thus Jesus existed you uneducated peons!". Kind of hilarious.
    an independent historical account from a trusted historian is evidence whether you like what it says or not. obviously its not undeniable proof. but these other guys are acting like nothing of the sort exists, when it does.
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  4. #64
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    Originally Posted by Retoaded View Post
    an independent historical account from a trusted historian is evidence whether you like what it says or not. obviously its not undeniable proof. but these other guys are acting like nothing of the sort exists, when it does.
    You are correct that it is not undeniable proof in any possible sense whatsoever. But no, his account, even if genuine, doesn't even have to mean much, if you consider the many questions that arise: without repeating my post, he is writing long after Jesus, and manages to get even things like Pontius Pilate's title wrong in the very passage you are referring to, suggesting he is not writing from primary sources, such as directly from Roman records or something.
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  5. #65
    Somebody's daughter Retoaded's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by numberguy12 View Post
    You are correct that it is not undeniable proof in any possible sense whatsoever. But no, his account, even if genuine, doesn't even have to mean much, if you consider the many questions that arise: without repeating my post, he is writing long after Jesus, and manages to get even things like Pontius Pilate's title wrong in the very passage you are referring to, suggesting he is not writing from primary sources, such as directly from Roman records or something.
    wasn't Tacitus like AD 50-100 or so? Not that long after. But not arguing your general point either
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  6. #66
    Registered User numberguy12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Retoaded View Post
    wasn't Tacitus like AD 50-100 or so? Not that long after. But not arguing your general point either
    circa 50 AD- 120 AD (born after Jesus would have died). But the Annals, which contains the passage you refer to, was Tacitus's final work, and is usually dated to into the 2nd century AD. "Long after" is a relative term of course, but there is definitely a time gap here, and who knows what could have happened, and where Tacitus is getting his info.
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  7. #67
    Registered User RamataKahn's Avatar
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    So yeah, Jesus was real.
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  8. #68
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    I used to doubt until I met him. People are gonna be shocked when they pass over.

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  9. #69
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    There are no historically reliable sources contemporary to the supposed time of Jesus that support the fact he existed. Even the Gospels were written after his supposed death. Tacitus lived 56 AD – 120 AD and Josephus 38 AD - 100 AD so neither historian is contemporary of Jesus, they simply retold stories they had heard from others.

    It's worth noting that at that time Judea was straining under the Romans and the Jews were in full messiah mode, except by messiah they meant a warrior that would kick the Romans out, not the son of god that saves us from our sins. We do know at that time there were many preachers, self styled messiahs, and zealots of many kinds who gained various amounts of following.

    Also the Hebrew version of Jesus is Yeshua which was one of the most common names, so could one or more of these preachers have been called Yeshua? Sure, why not.

    All this is VERY VERY different from saying that the son of god, named Jesus, was born from a virgin, raised the dead, turned water into wine, died for our sins, etc etc.
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  10. #70
    Registered User Antoine99's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jayarbie View Post
    magic wizard
    This could turn into a drinking game
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  11. #71
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    Originally Posted by AriGhold View Post
    Why do so many people still believe in fairytales? Mental illness.
    And yet another Ari post of incredible substance.

    Jesus was a man during his time on Earth. And he died as a man does. He was not God and didn't say he was
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  12. #72
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    Originally Posted by RamataKahn View Post
    So yeah, Jesus was real.
    I mean, simply stating claims does not a good argument make.

    "So yeah, a triangle has 4 sides".
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    Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.
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  14. #74
    Registered User numberguy12's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Techriding101 View Post
    or be a smart atheist, so smart you spend all day on the internet telling people how smart you are.
    You cant have a discussion about what is known/not known about say, the historicity of Jesus, without people like this jumping in to personally attack. Just the nature of this subforum. You are the one making this about "smartness", or whatever you are imagining, I couldn't care less.
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  15. #75
    Verified Aesthetic rhadam's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Jayarbie View Post
    https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/michael...an-not-all-god


    Of course. Jesus was just a dude born to a sloot who needed a cover story to explain why she was pregnant in a time when you could be stoned to death for that, so she said "God did it" (presumably because Joseph overheard her yelling "oh, God, oh, God"...).
    You're 48 and speak/think like this?

    Pathetic lol.
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    Originally Posted by numberguy12 View Post
    You cant have a discussion about what is known/not known about say, the historicity of Jesus, without people like this jumping in to personally attack. Just the nature of this subforum. You are the one making this about "smartness", or whatever you are imagining, I couldn't care less.


    What discussion, looks to me like you are just repeating yourself over and over, and over ITT. Get a hobby.
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    Originally Posted by Techriding101 View Post
    What discussion, looks to me like you are just repeating yourself over and over, and over ITT. Get a hobby.
    Lol your posts aren't really contributing anything. Not surprisingly, it's a base personal attack.

    Some of my points were repeated btw, because other posters were repeating the same objection over and over (Josephus and Tacitus). It does help to follow the posts in the thread.

    Believe it or not, it is possible for some people to take an interest in history, the historical method, and questions like the existence of Jesus. Some might even consider this itself a form of a hobby. I'm not interested in things like "smartness", "eliteness", or whatever: if you notice, I did not start my first post in this thread with mindless attacks, I just considered the historical question itself- this is ultimately what I am interested in, in regards to this subject.

    Contrast to the posts ITT coming from what appears to be the opposite side:

    Originally Posted by gwem32170191 View Post
    Regardless of belief, to say the man was not real is just ignorant.
    Bunch of know nothing about history phaggots itt
    Originally Posted by Jaydawg08 View Post
    This. Most miscers are legit retarded or have the IQ of Forrest Gump tho so I really wouldn't expect them to know that
    Originally Posted by Retoaded View Post
    It is ironic that the condescending atheists in this thread are mocking Christians for believing in fairy tales, and yet are wrong and uneducated about the likely existence of Jesus...they should probably educate themselves before they mock others.
    Originally Posted by Techriding101 View Post
    or be a smart atheist, so smart you spend all day on the internet telling people how smart you are.
    Lots of comments about IQ, others being uneducated, and other personal attacks. Seems to me it's these people talking down to others in here who don't agree with them.....not the other way around as much (contrary to what the misc typically thinks is the case regarding "militant atheists").
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  18. #78
    Registered User knightofday's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Dan_S View Post
    I'm not Christian, much less Catholic, but it's amazing to me how anyone can think this Pope isn't anything but a traitor to his own religion.
    Seconded. The bs hes been spewing is ramping up too, he is a plant and a puppet. Wild chit to witness
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  19. #79
    Wage Cuckin' It BetaAsPhuck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by badreligion View Post
    Is there even any historical proof that Jesus was real?
    Yeah, there is.

    There are even skeptics who have looked into it admit that Jesus existed, but they don't believe he was God incarnate, just a radical Rabbi.

    There are books written on the the historicity of Jesus, and you can google some articles summarizing the evidence.
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    Wage Cuckin' It BetaAsPhuck's Avatar
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    An Atheist amateur historian gives a pretty indepth answer to the question...

    Do credible historians agree that the man named Jesus, who the Christian Bible speaks of, walked the earth and was put to death on a cross by Pilate, Roman governor of Judea?


    https://www.quora.com/Do-credible-hi...ernor-of-Judea
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    Huitzilopochtli commands Weightaholic's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PowerOfTruth View Post
    Pope Francis is most certainly an anti-pope, but why do you have to disrespect Catholics' beliefs with that ridiculous comment?
    The Catholic church has done little to warrant respect. Quite the opposite....
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    Originally Posted by MuzzieChik786 View Post
    He is. Having no respect for people's beliefs and calling someone's mom a "sloot." Despicable.
    This coming from someone whose own cult denigrates disbelievers all the way through its alleged "holy book".
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    Yeshua is Messiah CalmWind's Avatar
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    it hurts to see so many lost humans speaking blasphemies against a loving, wonderful Creator.


    ITT people arent aware of the many amazing mysteries in the Bible that support Jesus


    I'm not shocked that this Pope is a false Pope and is collaborating with the enemy behind closed doors.


    Christians ITT, pray for the entire world. It's going to get worse.
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    Saying he was “just a man” is one of the most disrespectful things I’ve ever heard, given he has died in all of our behalf, out of love for us, just so we have a chance to save ourselves, out of our own free will, nothing forced, if we want to appreciate what he’s done for us, he wants us to follow his fathers direction as he did when he lived as a human, he humbled himself and took on our form, to be a perfect model to follow, which he was. No, he is not God, but he is the son of God and should be treated as such. Whether you believe it or not... have some respect people.
    Here, one of the most common scriptures in the bible, clearly showing he was no ordinary man and that he’s God’s son...

    “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.” -John 3:16

    “he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground.”
    -Philippians 2:7-10
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    Originally Posted by JaymzJ View Post
    Saying he was “just a man” is one of the most disrespectful things I’ve ever heard, given he has died in all of our behalf, out of love for us, just so we have a chance to save ourselves, out of our own free will, nothing forced, if we want to appreciate what he’s done for us, he wants us to follow his fathers direction as he did when he lived as a human, he humbled himself and took on our form, to be a perfect model to follow, which he was. No, he is not God, but he is the son of God and should be treated as such. Whether you believe it or not... have some respect people.
    Here, one of the most common scriptures in the bible, clearly showing he was no ordinary man and that he’s God’s son...

    “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life.” -John 3:16

    “he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human. More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position and kindly gave him the name that is above every other name, so that in the name of Jesus every knee should bend—of those in heaven and those on earth and those under the ground.”
    -Philippians 2:7-10
    Honest question, what does a Bible verse "clearly showing" something really mean? For obvious reasons, this is not evidence in itself.

    Also considering the question of Jesus's historicity is not disrespect, if this is what you are referring to- it's merely considering a historical question. I think the above posts in general show that there are surely questions, and none of this is known with the certainty of say "JFK existed". As for miracles etc, a separate question, no there is no direct evidence of this, and must be believed on faith (I ask again....what exactly is so bad for a matter like this to come down to faith? Why do some Christians not want it to come down to faith? If God could be proven somehow, not that this could happen, then believing in God would be as ordinary as believing 2+2=4 or to use a historical example, acknowledging that World War 2 happened....huh? Thought the idea was supposed to be about faith. Also notice that almost no one denies the above facts, contrast to the large number of people in world who are not religious or believe in God....this tells you something).

    You mention disrepect.....seems there is just as much, if not more, disparaging remarks coming from the Christian side here ITT- many personal attacks aimed at other posters etc, see my last post.
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    Registered User Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JaymzJ View Post
    Saying he was “just a man” is one of the most disrespectful things I’ve ever heard, given he has died in all of our behalf, out of love for us, just so we have a chance to save ourselves, out of our own free will, nothing forced, if we want to appreciate what he’s done for us, he wants us to follow his fathers direction as he did when he lived as a human, he humbled himself and took on our form, to be a perfect model to follow, which he was. No, he is not God, but he is the son of God and should be treated as such. Whether you believe it or not... have some respect people.
    Here, one of the most common scriptures in the bible, clearly showing he was no ordinary man and that he’s God’s son...
    He was just a man. You've been brainwashed into believing he died for your sins. I was raised in the cult of Christianity as well but transcended it in my youth. I know a lot of adults who accept it, no coincidence it's the religion of your culture. Had you been born in India you'd likely be a Hindu arguing for the authenticity of Vishnu.
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    He was just a man. You've been brainwashed into believing he died for your sins. I was raised in the cult of Christianity as well but transcended it in my youth. I know a lot of adults who accept it, no coincidence it's the religion of your culture. Had you been born in India you'd likely be a Hindu arguing for the authenticity of Vishnu.
    This. Or to take an extreme example, if you were born into the uncontacted tribe on North Sentinel island- the Sentinelese- you sure as hell would not be posting arguments in favor of Christianity on the internet on a bodybuilding forum. You wouldn't have any idea of what Jesus even means.
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    General iabs's Avatar
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    Why do all leftist cucks love to make fun of religion and religious people?
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    Wage Cuckin' It BetaAsPhuck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by iabs View Post
    Why do all leftist cucks love to make fun of religion and religious people?
    If I had to guess, a lot of the posters here mocking religions and religious people are right wing.

    The majority of R/P is right wing (Conservatives or Libertarians), IME.
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    Yeshua is Messiah CalmWind's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by iabs View Post
    Why do all leftist cucks love to make fun of religion and religious people?
    It's a psychological inferiority complex.

    Leftists take contrarian positions to feel good about themselves, because it makes them feel like they know something that the rest of the "dumb sheeple" don't know.
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