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  1. #301
    Registered User Halfway's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dabbmw2002 View Post
    Now for a stalemate, this one however doesn't involve the US directly. We failed to over throw Assad, how many lives did that cost with us dragging out that civil war? The Kurds in Syria our Syrian, that ought to work together with Assad. We need to get our thumb off the scales and let regional powers work it out.
    If they work with Assad, where is our greatest ally going to buy cheap oil?

    https://www.ft.com/content/150f00cc-...f-4d6e0e5eda22

    I guess that's the status quo that our resident baizuo want
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  2. #302
    📶 🔌🔋 99% LukeLissen's Avatar
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    If you wanna peacekeeping force in there to protect the communist Kurds from our NATO allies, then get the UN.

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  3. #303
    husband, father, trainer KyleAaron's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Halfway View Post
    If they work with Assad, where is our greatest ally going to buy cheap oil?

    https://www.ft.com/content/150f00cc-...f-4d6e0e5eda22
    Paywall. Cliffs?

    The Kurds are not going to get an independent Kurdistan in the near future. Autonomy within their various countries is the best they can hope for. The current situation allows it, and with Russia and Iran backing Syria, there's not much Turkey can do. This could actually lead to a peaceful settlement of the Syrian civil war.

    The Turks will string things out in the hopes of divisions appearing between the allies (the Iranians aren't too fond of the Kurds) and so as to save face, not pull back straight away. They'll then keep an islamist army just across the border threatening Syria for decades, like Jordan and Lebanon did with the PLO and Israel (which didn't work out well for any of them). But basically - peace is in sight, and the Kurds' relative democracy should have a positive effect on the rest of Syria.

    This is not a good outcome, overall. But given that Syria started as a murderous dictatorship, and they've had several years of civil war, this is about the best outcome the people of Syria could have.

    The Syrian civil war is the Spanish civil war of our times. I hope it doesn't have the same sequel.
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  4. #304
    Registered User Halfway's Avatar
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    Cliffs - Israel buys 2/3rds of its oil from the Kurds in Iraq at way under the market rate, and the Kurds in Syria hold most of the oil reserves

    We can't even sneeze in the ME without permission from our Israeli and Saudi owners, the prospect of losing out on massively subsidized oil has pissed off one of our masters to the point that all the neocons and neolibs are foaming at the mouth at the prospect of Turkey preventing their employer from getting cheap resources.
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  5. #305
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    Interesting. How do the Kurds ship it to Israel? it's a long way through Jordan or Iraq, and I can't see Assad letting it through up to the Golan Heights.

    Anyway, surely after all this Syria will be keen to make peace with Israel, and they can still get oil. Several years of civil war and they won't be keen for a state-state war. There are reasons Spain mostly stayed out of WWII. Usually it's the Arabs missing opportunities for peace and prosperity, this time it'd be Israel's to fck it up.
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  6. #306
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    Will some media channels please stop lying about all of this? Goodness they making it sound like the Kurds are being left to be killed to the very last man, woman, and child. The women on the view who don't even know where the fuk Syria is are talking about how Trump left everybody to die and bunch of other crazy **** like we seeing a genocide. The Turks are not even invading all the territory the Kurds hold. As a matter of fact, the Kurds will retain most of the territory they hold. Turkey wants a buffer that stretches across their border, they do not have a interest in diving deep into Syria.



    CNN making it look like this is the division of Poland or something. It’s a buffer zone made to relocate Syrian refugees to a safe zone within Syria. And if any country has the power in the region to do that, it is Turkey.

    Stop the lies already, Kurds aren’t being annihilated unless they crazy enough to actually fight for that strip of land with a member of Nato. They should just withdraw further south and call it a day. They should also stop using ISIS as an excuse to hold that land, saying how ISIS members will break free. Ummm no, you can simply relocate them to south of the buffer zone and problem solved. If ISIS members do escape, it is not because of the Turkish operation but because the Kurds allowed them to go. Again, stop making **** up, and the media should join them.
    Last edited by BalkanPrince; 10-13-2019 at 07:26 PM.
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  7. #307
    Registered User Halfway's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KyleAaron View Post
    Interesting. How do the Kurds ship it to Israel? it's a long way through Jordan or Iraq, and I can't see Assad letting it through up to the Golan Heights.

    Anyway, surely after all this Syria will be keen to make peace with Israel, and they can still get oil. Several years of civil war and they won't be keen for a state-state war. There are reasons Spain mostly stayed out of WWII. Usually it's the Arabs missing opportunities for peace and prosperity, this time it'd be Israel's to fck it up.
    https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israe...-are-disguised

    With the Iraqi government taking back the countries oil fields, Kurdish shipments have slumped, meaning a Syrian Kurdish replacement would be totally worth it to the likes of Lindsay Graham and Feinstein etc having a few thousand more Americans die in the ME to protect
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  8. #308
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    The golfer-in-chief has lowered the troops morale to the point that Turks can bracket bomb a U.S. base in Syria because they know that nothing will happen in return.

    https://www.militarytimes.com/2019/1...post-in-syria/
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  9. #309
    husband, father, trainer KyleAaron's Avatar
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    That's interesting, but it says the oil is coming from Iraqi Kurdistan, not Syrian.

    Israel obviously has an interest in the Syrian civil war, just as any country will have an interest in the civil war of an immediate neighbour, but those interests don't appear to include oil as a significant factor.

    Originally Posted by article
    The cloak and dagger methods are likely used in a bid to avert legal challenges from Baghdad, who are at loggerheads with the autonomous Kurdish authorities over how to divvy up the revenues.
    From that article the Iraqi dispute appears to be not about who the Kurdish oil is being sold to, but whether Baghdad gets some and/or all of the money from that sale. So even if the Kurds surrendered en masse to Baghdad tomorrow, Israel would probably still get oil from Iraq.

    I know it's always attractive to try to reduce everything to one element, whether that be oil, foreign debt, Islamic terrorism, or whatever, but the truth is that international affairs have many, many factors to them. Which is why countries change sides in conflicts. Countries don't have friends, they just have interests. At some point the various factors change enough that it tips things over to change the relationship.

    In this case, Trump saw a chance to fulfil an election promise and bring the troops home. As I was explaining to a friend, this is why things were not signalled in advance. It's like how Obama wanted to close Guantanamo and kept telling everyone about it, so Congress and everyone else found ways to stop him. Likewise if Trump wants to bring the troops home and makes a (for example) 12 month plan, then someone will stop him. If he just ambushes them with it then there's nothing much they can do except suddenly decide to impeach him and hope for the best.

    Again, I don't believe it's a coincidence that, after his publicly asking for foreign interference in US affairs since before he was even President, it's only after he got up in front of the UN and abandoned the Carter Doctrine that impeachment happened.

    The Kurds will be fine.
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  10. #310
    Zero Supplementation TurkBrah's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BalkanPrince View Post
    Will some media channels please stop lying about all of this? Goodness they making it sound like the Kurds are being left to be killed to the very last man, woman, and child. The women on the view who don't even know where the fuk Syria is are talking about how Trump left everybody to die and bunch of other crazy **** like we seeing a genocide. The Turks are not even invading all the territory the Kurds hold. As a matter of fact, the Kurds will retain most of the territory they hold. Turkey wants a buffer that stretches across their border, they do not have a interest in diving deep into Syria.



    CNN making it look like this is the division of Poland or something. It’s a buffer zone made to relocate Syrian refugees to a safe zone within Syria. And if any country has the power in the region to do that, it is Turkey.

    Stop the lies already, Kurds aren’t being annihilated unless they crazy enough to actually fight for that strip of land with a member of Nato. They should just withdraw further south and call it a day. They should also stop using ISIS as an excuse to hold that land, saying how ISIS members will break free. Ummm no, you can simply relocate them to south of the buffer zone and problem solved. If ISIS members do escape, it is not because of the Turkish operation but because the Kurds allowed them to go. Again, stop making **** up, and the media should join them.
    bro this thread is full of stupid ****ers. You are talking way above their iq level.
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  11. #311
    📶 🔌🔋 99% LukeLissen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ceizer1985 View Post
    The golfer-in-chief has lowered the troops morale to the point that Turks can bracket bomb a U.S. base in Syria because they know that nothing will happen in return.

    https://www.militarytimes.com/2019/1...post-in-syria/

    Obama lowered the troops' morale to the point of decadence. The troops are so glad to have Trump in office, it's given the biggest boost in morale to them in a long long time.

    Also, militarytimes.com has been pushing frequent anti-Trump propaganda, as have all of Sightline Media Group's publications have been. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regent,_L.P. ... whether it be the wishes the wishes of Reinstein himself, or of the military-industrial complex and/or deep state around the publishing office in DC.


    now back to reality ...

    Military Poll a Morale Victory for Trump
    https://www.frcaction.org/updatearti.../military-poll

    Under Barack Obama, the biggest threat to our military might have been the policies of the man in charge of it. From the toppling of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" to the rollout of open transgenderism, most service members couldn't wait to get back to the business of warfighting. In 2016, they got their wish. After eight long years, the new commander-in-chief went to work, rescuing our troops from the radical grip of the Obama years. "I want a very, very strong military," Donald Trump said. And he is proving it.

    It wasn't easy restoring a sense of pride to a military devastated by two terms of social engineering. But this president didn't wilt under the pressure. He walked right into the fire and did what was right -- whether the issue was the budget, sexuality, faith, gender, or draft-related. Now, almost two years into upending the policies of Obama, Trump's troops are showing their gratitude. About 44 percent of active-duty troops have a favorable view of the commander-in chief -- nine points higher than Obama's top mark.

    Of course, the headlines will be misleading. Even the reporters at the Military Times, who conducted the poll, say the president's support is "fading." But barely. Unlike Barack Obama, who watched his approval rating fall through basement -- barely cracking 15 percent when he left office -- Donald Trump is only 2.8 points off his 46.1 percent mark from inauguration day. That's almost within the statistical margin of error. Obama's support, on the other hand, almost completely evaporated, dropping 25 points between 2009 and 2015.

    When it comes to Trump's actual policies, the numbers are night and day. "Troops surveyed continue to give high marks to the president for his handling of military issues specifically," the survey points out. "More than 60 percent said they believe the military is in better shape now than it was under President Barack Obama, and nearly the same number have a favorable view of his handling of the military." Only 13 percent think Obama's military was in better shape than Trump's. That shouldn't be surprising. Instead of dismantling the military like the last administration, this president is focused on rebuilding it. And when he does, it's with an eye on their mission -- not his.

    "Trump has done some things to win the hearts of the military, whether it has been the budget or just avoiding a foreign policy catastrophe," said political science professor Peter Feaver. "And he has talked about the importance of the military, making it a focus of his campaign and presidency." Some of the men and women interviewed agreed. "[Trump's] definitely improving the readiness of the military and giving us the resources we need to get the mission done, not hamstringing us by cutting our budget," said Staff Sgt. Kyle Overholser, an airman stationed in Arizona.

    And while officers trail in their enthusiasm of Trump, even their favorability ratings have jumped 10 points -- from 31 percent a year ago to 41 percent now. In the enlisted ranks, there's always been a more positive opinion of the president than negative. Gender seems to be the only real divide. Female troops (who made up just 11 percent of the respondents) are much less supportive of this White House than their male counterparts.

    Thanks to President Trump, the military is finally fighting something other than the culture wars. And honestly, that's the difference between his administration and Obama's. This president uses our troops to advance America's interests -- not his own. And our service members aren't the only appreciative ones!



    and we'll find out firsthand just how high it really is should push come to shove ...
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  12. #312
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    Originally Posted by ceizer1985 View Post
    The golfer-in-chief has lowered the troops morale to the point that Turks can bracket bomb a U.S. base in Syria because they know that nothing will happen in return.

    https://www.militarytimes.com/2019/1...post-in-syria/
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    VIDEO: Col. Douglas MacGregor knows more than most of us about this Syrian mess. He makes it simple when he says these countries are forced to take care of this themselves. Checkmate.

    https://twitter.com/MSH3RIDAN/status...63912291356679



    same video as above but a little longer

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  14. #314
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    Originally Posted by TaeBoNinja View Post
    Turkey told us they were hitting that area. What "understanding" should we have got with them? We pulled those troops to avoid them getting hit.

    US soldiers =/= meat shileds for the Kurds
    Originally Posted by TaeBoNinja View Post
    Well no, had we left our soldiers in the region, then they were directly in the line of fire. This is like if we strike a target and tell allies to move their assests out beforehand. Should the US go to war for the Kurds? Becuase Turkey was set on attakcing.
    Real strength, leadership, and diplomacy.

    Originally Posted by Dave22reborn View Post
    Its interesting how people rant about how much we spend on military spending, imperialism, the military industrial complex, etc. Then they claim that we can't leave Syria, or Afghanistan.....
    Seems to be your only argument, but it doesn't address my actual argument.
    "You know we keep an active presence in a few places without actually fighting right?" <- was in reference to your post, not a suggestion.
    We could have managed the exit to better the situation. As in stipulations, consequences.

    So I'll ask again. Are you ready to welcome the inevitable refugees we have now created, or would you rather they had a safe place to stay in their own land? Step out of the partizan talking points, and think of the bigger picture here.


    Originally Posted by Halfway View Post
    https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israe...-are-disguised

    With the Iraqi government taking back the countries oil fields, Kurdish shipments have slumped, meaning a Syrian Kurdish replacement would be totally worth it to the likes of Lindsay Graham and Feinstein etc having a few thousand more Americans die in the ME to protect
    A little more interesting when you look at another future plan.
    Spoiler!
    Last edited by dj924s; 10-14-2019 at 04:05 AM.
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    Originally Posted by LukeLissen View Post
    VIDEO: Col. Douglas MacGregor knows more than most of us about this Syrian mess. He makes it simple when he says these countries are forced to take care of this themselves. Checkmate.

    https://twitter.com/MSH3RIDAN/status...63912291356679



    same video as above but a little longer

    Good, let these countries take care of themselves.
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  16. #316
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    Originally Posted by SillieBazzillie View Post
    Regardless of whether it's partly our fault or not, the brutality of the Turkish advance is a horrible look for the US.

    And is the talking point that they were advancing whether or not we were there? So we bail? The status quo was way better than the chit show we have now.
    lol, nobody gives a **** about Syria, Kurds or Turkey.



    Well, except for when CNN tells you to care because orangemanbad...
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    Originally Posted by chaunce54 View Post
    lol, nobody gives a **** about Syria, Kurds or Turkey.



    Well, except for when CNN tells you to care because orangemanbad...
    Yep, I've never seen so many leftists on social media be all up in arms about supporting the Kurds.
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    its a sight to behold to watch democrats turn into Mccain level war hawks just because Trump is doing something they all voted Obama in to do (which he failed miserably at).

    Bringing troops back home from that region was literally the reason Obama was elected. This is absolutely hilarious to watch
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    Originally Posted by BuckNakedinBama View Post
    Gotta wonder if they'll give back the land they conquer to Syria or if this is a land grab.

    RIP Kurds.
    Why should they? If they take the land, it belongs to them. What they choose to do with it is up to them, unless another power capable of taking it back decides otherwise.

    RIP Kurds though, they are fukked, but that's the way the real world works. Not everyone gets a good deal.
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    It’s all about keeping the Syrian people and government weak and cutting it out from its land. Thats why Trump, the best goyim the jews could ask for, is bombing the Syrian military as it moves into Northern Syria to meet the Turkish invasion and work with the Kurds.

    Its always been about removing the National Syrian government to replace it with either a western puppet ( like Jordan and Egypt who get billions of dollars a year to toe the line) or to break it apart so Israel can grab land and weaken the independent nations (Syria, Lebanon, Iran)

    Why else would Trump bomb the Syrian military who is helping save the Kurds( who don’t even deserve the syrian help after allying with evil America)
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    Originally Posted by JaxBrah View Post
    its a sight to behold to watch democrats turn into Mccain level war hawks just because Trump is doing something they all voted Obama in to do (which he failed miserably at).

    Bringing troops back home from that region was literally the reason Obama was elected. This is absolutely hilarious to watch

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    Erdogan is an idiot and very poor leader for his country. Turkey is about to be hit with sanctions that will cripple its economy. If you need evidence of the power of sanctions, look no further than Iran.
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    Erdogan is an idiot and very poor leader for his country. Turkey is about to be hit with sanctions that will cripple its economy. If you need evidence of the power of sanctions, look no further than Iran.
    Well sanctions are an act of war. It's no different than an old world blockade. Not taking away from your post just adding some context.
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    Erdogan is an idiot and very poor leader for his country. Turkey is about to be hit with sanctions that will cripple its economy. If you need evidence of the power of sanctions, look no further than Iran.
    Turkey gets sanctioned. Syrian Kurds and the Syrian government align together, Turkey halts their advanced and hostilities wind down. Erdogan will claim success in creating a buffer zone, the Kurds and Assad will have to decide if they can get along long term. No Americans get killed. How is this the worst foreign policy decision? Of course if we ignore Vietnam, the Iraq invasion, the toppling of the Lybian government, just to name of few
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    Originally Posted by JoshSP1985 View Post
    Well sanctions are an act of war. It's no different than an old world blockade. Not taking away from your post just adding some context.
    Ok with me if sanctions are an act of war. However, not that it matters, usually the country on the receiving end claims economic sanctions are an act of war for nationalism efforts and sympathy. So, legally, economic sanctions being an act of war is debatable and very political.

    Better than literally bombing Turkey.
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    Originally Posted by dabbmw2002 View Post
    Turkey gets sanctioned. Syrian Kurds and the Syrian government align together, Turkey halts their advanced and hostilities wind down. Erdogan will claim success in creating a buffer zone, the Kurds and Assad will have to decide if they can get along long term. No Americans get killed. How is this the worst foreign policy decision? Of course if we ignore Vietnam, the Iraq invasion, the toppling of the Lybian government, just to name of few
    I do not disagree.
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    Originally Posted by LukeLissen View Post
    VIDEO: Col. Douglas MacGregor knows more than most of us about this Syrian mess. He makes it simple when he says these countries are forced to take care of this themselves. Checkmate.
    You have made quite the turnaound in recent years. You were a rabid warmonger cheerleading for military intervention and now you sound almost isolationist.

    You see, folks? There's nothing wrong with evolving your views based on new information. Being steadfast in one's beliefs is a straight jacket. This is a lesson for both Trumptards and libtards alike.
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    Originally Posted by JoshSP1985 View Post
    lulz you can set your clock by this stuff
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    Originally Posted by dj924s View Post
    Real strength, leadership, and diplomacy.
    Actually, yes. It was

    Far better than previous presidents who have gotten us intagled in foreign engagements
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    US troops block Syrian army from defending key Kurdish cities from Turkey's advance
    https://morningstaronline.co.uk/arti...turkey-advance

    S TROOPS blocked the Syrian army from entering Kobane and Manbij this morning, despite a deal being struck with Kurdish forces allowing them to defend the semi-autonomous region known as Rojava.
    The deep state just can't be denied. I should have seen this coming. The president orders the troops out and somehow down the chain of command they find ways to defy him. The cabal will keep this war going at any cost, if we let them.

    Why are we letting them get away with this?
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