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  1. #1
    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Ex-Dallas Officer Who Killed Neighbor In Upstairs Apartment Is Found Guilty Of Murder

    https://www.npr.org/2019/10/01/76578...guilty-of-murd

    A Dallas jury has found former police Officer Amber Guyger guilty of murder for fatally shooting a neighbor who lived in the apartment directly above hers last year. She had testified that she entered Botham Jean's unit after a long day at work, thinking it was her own home and that he was an intruder.

    She faces a possible penalty of up to 99 years in prison.

    Prosecutors maintained that Guyger, 31, committed murder when she overlooked signs that the apartment wasn't her own — the wrong floor, the smell of marijuana coming from the apartment, a bright red doormat — and shot Jean, a 26-year-old accountant who was sitting in his living room eating ice cream when Guyger killed him last September.

    "There was no other floor mat like this is the entire building. This sticks out, literally, like a red thumb," lead prosecutor Jason Hermus said in court on Monday, holding up the doormat to the jury. "And she walked up to it and stood on top of it."

    But in tearful testimony to the jury last week, Guyger said she was "scared to death" when she opened what she thought was her own apartment door and saw the silhouette of a man she mistook him for an intruder.

    "I was scared whoever was inside my apartment was going to kill me," she told the jury. "No police officer would want to hurt an innocent person."

    Guyger lived on the third floor of an apartment complex just south of downtown Dallas. Her lawyers said she was winding down a 13-hour workday when she opened Jean's door.
    I have to look into more. I haven't seen a motive for murder. Coming off a 13 hr shift the mind can be exhausted and not think sharply.
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  2. #2
    Darth Beer icetrauma's Avatar
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    She's full of ****.
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    Good, that was some bull****
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    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    from the article:

    The case became transfixing to observers around the country for the delicate questions it presented. Was the shooting a noncriminal accident equal to a "tragic mistake," as Guyger's lawyers argued? Or were the mistakes of Guyger so reckless that they constituted manslaughter, or so intentionally negligent that it amounted to murder?

    In deciding that she was guilty, the jury, about half of whom were African American, sided with the prosecution, meaning Guyger now faces decades of possible prison time.

    Others have described the facts of the case as the latest example of a white police officer killing an unarmed black man. Civil rights groups rallied behind Jean, a native of the Caribbean island of St. Lucia. And police officers came to the defense of Guyger.

    Guyger attempted to cast aside race as being a factor by saying during her testimony that the encounter was "not about hate," she said. "It's about being scared."
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    Registered User BearyManilowe's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    https://www.npr.org/2019/10/01/76578...guilty-of-murd



    I have to look into more. I haven't seen a motive for murder. Coming off a 13 hr shift the mind can be exhausted and not think sharply.
    Second degree murder. Good. Bitch is stupid.

    From the internet:
    Typically, second-degree murder is defined as murder that is not premeditated, or murder that is caused by the offender's reckless conduct that displays an obvious lack of concern for human life.
    Seems to fit exactly what happened.
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    Good. Bitch was stupid AF and her stupidity caused his death.
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    Sports GURU beer n brats's Avatar
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    Botham Jean had a red door mat outside his door and her apartment didn’t... most people would notice that.
    and that’s the bottom line
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  8. #8
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    I'm actually surprised with the verdict although I agree. Thought she was going to skate. She wont get life though, she'll be out in 20.
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    https://www.npr.org/2019/10/01/76578...guilty-of-murd



    I have to look into more. I haven't seen a motive for murder. Coming off a 13 hr shift the mind can be exhausted and not think sharply.
    Motive is not required for murder.

    Sec. 19.01. TYPES OF CRIMINAL HOMICIDE. (a) A person commits criminal homicide if he intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or with criminal negligence causes the death of an individual.

    (b) Criminal homicide is murder, capital murder, manslaughter, or criminally negligent homicide.
    https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/D.../htm/PE.19.htm

    Without even reading much into the facts I can assure you they got her on either reckless or crim negligence.
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  10. #10
    Darth Beer icetrauma's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dabbmw2002 View Post
    I'm actually surprised with the verdict although I agree. Thought she was going to skate. She wont get life though, she'll be out in 20.
    If she makes it out. The time in the big house by a LEO is not a good time.
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  11. #11
    720 Crew topperstyle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BearyManilowe View Post
    Second degree murder. Good. Bitch is stupid.

    From the internet:


    Seems to fit exactly what happened.
    texas doesn't have degrees of murder.

    they follow tx MPC

    there's either cap murder, murder, mans, or crim neg homicide.
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  12. #12
    Cthulhu fhtagn GreatOldOne's Avatar
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    It seems like manslaughter.
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  13. #13
    Registered User BearyManilowe's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by topperstyle View Post
    texas doesn't have degrees of murder.

    they follow tx MPC

    there's either cap murder, murder, mans, or crim neg homicide.
    Ah forgot this was Texas, easily criminal negligence though
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    Originally Posted by GreatOldOne View Post
    It seems like manslaughter.

    Care to provide your legal analysis so I can shred it apart?
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    ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ Tamorlane's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by topperstyle View Post
    Motive is not required for murder.
    No, but intent is for most crimes like murder. Otherwise it's an accident. Mens Rea and Actus Reus (guilty mind and guilty act).

    If it were an accident, that means she really was acting in self-defense. It all comes down to whether she was justified in believing there was an intruder in her house along with taking the necessary precautions to know you're going into your own place. Can a person make such a critical error and not be held accountable? The jury decided no. She had warning signs to indicate it wasn't her home and the burden is on her to make sure she's not going into the wrong home and shooting whoever is unlucky enough to be in their own dwelling on the other side of the door.
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    720 Crew topperstyle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    No, but intent is for most crimes like murder. Otherwise it's an accident. Mens Rea and Actus Reus (guilty mind and guilty act).

    If it were an accident, that means she really was acting in self-defense. It all comes down to whether she was justified in believing there was an intruder in her house along with taking the necessary precautions to know you're going into your own place. Can a person make such a critical error and not be held accountable? The jury decided no. She had reasons to indicate and the burden is on her to make sure she's not going into the wrong home and shooting whoever is unlucky enough to be in their own dwelling.
    Wrong - sort of.

    Intent can be established from the preponderance of evidence. To hold someone liable for a crime, you merely need a concurrence between the mens rea and the actus reus.

    Here the actus is the act of shooting someone.

    Here the mens is her shooting that particular person, knowing or should have known harm would occur. (this is where they got her on likely reckless or neg homi)

    There is, without a doubt, plenty of fact to establish a prima facie case for murder.



    THEN you move into defenses.

    The luxury of self-defense only gets you so far. She would need to establish that the person she shot was the initial aggressor and she did not apply a disproportionate level of force which she obviously did.

    Voluntary intoxication is not a defense in criminal law generally. Her mistake, though tragic, is still culpable.

    Sec. 8.04. INTOXICATION. (a) Voluntary intoxication does not constitute a defense to the commission of crime.

    (b) Evidence of temporary insanity caused by intoxication may be introduced by the actor in mitigation of the penalty attached to the offense for which he is being tried.

    (c) When temporary insanity is relied upon as a defense and the evidence tends to show that such insanity was caused by intoxication, the court shall charge the jury in accordance with the provisions of this section.

    (d) For purposes of this section "intoxication" means disturbance of mental or physical capacity resulting from the introduction of any substance into the body.
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    Truth Teller Aesthetical's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    No, but intent is for most crimes like murder. Otherwise it's an accident. Mens Rea and Actus Reus (guilty mind and guilty act).

    If it were an accident, that means she really was acting in self-defense. It all comes down to whether she was justified in believing there was an intruder in her house along with taking the necessary precautions to know you're going into your own place. Can a person make such a critical error and not be held accountable? The jury decided no. She had warning signs to indicate it wasn't her home and the burden is on her to make sure she's not going into the wrong home and shooting whoever is unlucky enough to be in their own dwelling on the other side of the door.
    This^

    Even if we take her word as absolute truth, there has to be consequences for this mistake. As to how long she should serve in prison, I dont know, all I know is that you cant go into an apartment guns blazing even if its a 100% accident. How far did she go into the apartment? Did she not have the opportunity to back up and figure out another solution instead of shoot first ask questions last.
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    How is that not first degree murder? She walked right up to this guys apartment walked in and killed him. How much more pre meditated can it get ?
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    Originally Posted by Aesthetical View Post
    This^

    Even if we take her word as absolute truth, there has to be consequences for this mistake. As to how long she should serve in prison, I dont know, all I know is that you cant go into an apartment guns blazing even if its a 100% accident. How far did she go into the apartment? Did she not have the opportunity to back up and figure out another solution instead of shoot first ask questions last.
    This, she went in looking for a gunfight

    she could have EASILY backed away and called for backup when she realized the door was unlocked (as it says in the article)

    feel so bad for the innocent guy

    always keep your doors locked
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    Originally Posted by beer n brats View Post
    Botham Jean had a red door mat outside his door and her apartment didn’t... most people would notice that.
    Yeah, the main reason was she was distracted because she had been sending triple XXX text messages with her police partner, with whom she was having a sexual relationship with.

    She should do more than 20 years in jail for her stupidity.
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    Originally Posted by sammywatkins View Post
    How is that not first degree murder? She walked right up to this guys apartment walked in and killed him. How much more pre meditated can it get ?
    Texas doesn't have degrees of murder.

    READ.

    https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/D.../htm/PE.19.htm
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    Good on the courts. Poor dude will not get another chance to smoke some herb and munch out.
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    Right verdict.
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    I thought she was drunk or had been drinking?

    Maybe confusing it with another case.
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    Originally Posted by topperstyle View Post
    I thought she was drunk or had been drinking?

    Maybe confusing it with another case.
    Blamed it on the long shift and fatigue. She stated she parked on the wrong ramp and went to the location, she thought was her apt., would have been located if she parked in the correct area.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...or/3828562002/

    Amber Guyger, who is white, had testified that she was exhausted from an extended shift when she walked into the apartment of Botham Jean thinking it was her own. Guyger, 31, said she believed Jean, 26, was a burglar and shot him in self-defense.

    Guyger said she had parked on the wrong level of her apartment building's parking garage by mistake and walked down a corridor to the apartment directly above hers, thinking it was her own. She became worried when she noticed the door was unlocked, she said.
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    Originally Posted by topperstyle View Post
    I thought she was drunk or had been drinking?

    Maybe confusing it with another case.

    This is what the prosecution hammered out to the jurors to make their case.

    Prosecutors in the murder trial of ex-Dallas police Officer Amber Guyger focused on a series of text exchanges she shared with her partner at the time, whom she had been having a sexual relationship with, to question her defense that she was fatigued from work on the night she fatally shot her neighbor.

    The testimony of her former partner, Officer Martin Rivera, capped the end of the first day of Guyger's murder trial on Monday, when prosecutors revealed the pair had sent sexually explicit messages to each other throughout the day and just before she shot her neighbor, Botham Jean, on Sept. 6, 2018.

    Guyger walked into Jean's apartment by mistake on a different floor, confusing his unit for hers, she has said, and shot him believing he was a burglar.

    In his testimony, Rivera said he would send Guyger, 31, provocative photos of himself.

    Lead prosecutor Jason Hermus said that the pair was texting each other hours before the shooting, including one message in which Guyger said she was "super horny today."

    Hermus said that at about 9:30 p.m., as Guyger finished her 13-1/2-hour shift, she sent Rivera a Snapchat message that read, "Wanna touch?"

    Details of that night continued with other testimony in a Dallas courtroom Tuesday, including from the 911 operator who took a call from Guyger and a police officer's bodycam video of inside Jean's apartment as officers tried to render life-saving aid.
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    Originally Posted by icetrauma

    Guyger said she had parked on the wrong level of her apartment building's parking garage by mistake and walked down a corridor to the apartment directly above hers, thinking it was her own. She became worried when she noticed the door was unlocked, she said.
    This makes me think it really was an accident and act of self defense but I guess the onus is on her to make sure it’s not someone else’s house. Especially if the consequences can be this severe.

    Will be interesting to see what her sentencing is.
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    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    This makes me think it really was an accident and act of self defense but I guess the onus is on her to make sure it’s not someone else’s house. Especially if the consequences can be this severe.

    Will be interesting to see what her sentencing is.
    Manslaughter sounds more reasonable than murder.
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    Originally Posted by icetrauma View Post
    Blamed it on the long shift and fatigue. She stated she parked on the wrong ramp and went to the location, she thought was her apt., would have been located if she parked in the correct area.
    My mistake - I thought I remembered reading something about intoxication.

    Originally Posted by Tamorlane View Post
    This makes me think it really was an accident and act of self defense but I guess the onus is on her to make sure it’s not someone else’s house. Especially if the consequences can be this severe.

    Will be interesting to see what her sentencing is.
    You can't use self defense if you are trespassing. Also, proportionality in regards to the application force is important here.

    Originally Posted by icetrauma View Post
    Manslaughter sounds more reasonable than murder.
    disagree
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