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  1. #1
    Registered User Arizona45's Avatar
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    Women as Male Health Destroyers?

    Many men, athletes, the average Joe, and couch potatoes alike have a fear of being too thin. Obviously, athletes such as marathoners, middleweight and lightweight boxers, cyclists, and those who must be thin to succeed at their sport are a minority for whom being thin is an asset.

    Polls have shown, however, that women tend to gravitate towards men who have a BMI towards the upper range of normal or even those who are slightly overweight. This trend, in addition to men being perceived as weak if too thin, has, in my opinion, been exacerbating both the obesity crisis and health problems in this country. We all see those guys at the gym who can lift plenty but they are not athletes. They are obese and would be better served if they had a BMI between 20-25.

    Are women, in part, to blame for this trend towards toxic "masculinity?" Is strength or size at the expense of health the new norm for the majority of American men? Has America's understanding about what a man should truly look like become unhealthy?

    P.S. I recently took a poll on Facebook and showed women a picture of Oscar de la Hoya during his prime. They all said he was too thin. I told them he could whip the tar out of their husbands or boyfriends. They either denied the statement or said it may be so but they did not care. To them, a man should have meat on his bones.
    Last edited by Arizona45; 09-23-2019 at 01:58 PM.
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    Weak and foolish OldFartTom's Avatar
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    My BMI is 24.2
    I'm still waiting for this gravitation to kick in you described, do you have any further tips?
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    Registered User Arizona45's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OldFartTom View Post
    My BMI is 24.2
    I'm still waiting for this gravitation to kick in you described, do you have any further tips?
    My BMI is 24.8. We are both towards the upper normal range. However, if I were to drop to a BMI of 20-21while exercising to improve endurance, cardio, and BF percentage many uneducated people would think it unattractive and likely unhealthy.
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    BMI is stupid. 20-25? Looks like I'm "overweight" at 13% body fat.
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    Which picture did they show? The 119 lb fighter at the junior Olympics? Yes he looks small when he first started fighting. At his high fighting weight of 147, he looks pretty strong.
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    Well this is a relief. Last I heard women tended to prefer that super lean, Brad Pitt in fightclub, look. Glad to know I'm hot again.
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    Originally Posted by Arizona45 View Post
    Many men, athletes, the average Joe, and couch potatoes alike have a fear of being too thin. Obviously, athletes such as marathoners, middleweight and lightweight boxers, cyclists, and those who must be thin to succeed at their sport are a minority for whom being thin is an asset.

    Polls have shown, however, that women tend to gravitate towards men who have a BMI towards the upper range of normal or even those who are slightly overweight. This trend, in addition to men being perceived as weak if too thin, has, in my opinion, been exacerbating both the obesity crisis and health problems in this country. We all see those guys at the gym who can lift plenty but they are not athletes. They are obese and would be better served if they had a BMI between 20-25.

    Are women, in part, to blame for this trend towards toxic "masculinity?" Is strength or size at the expense of health the new norm for the majority of American men? Has America's understanding about what a man should truly look like become unhealthy?

    P.S. I recently took a poll on Facebook and showed women a picture of Oscar de la Hoya during his prime. They all said he was too thin. I told them he could whip the tar out of their husbands or boyfriends. They either denied the statement or said it may be so but they did not care. To them, a man should have meat on his bones.
    You're basing this on a FB poll in a time when women (and men) are getting fatter and fatter. Great observation with which to base your analysis. WTF still uses FB other than those sad daily journal makers, anyway.
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    Women are not health destroyers (in that regard, anyway; situations are everything and you could even argue that for men...but I digress lmfao), and BMI is not an accurate predictor of health. My BMI is 32, and my health markers are at the best they've ever been. I'm loving this sub-60bpm resting heart rate and blood pressure under 110/80, along with other markers of good cardiovascular health that I have. Stop trying to blame women for this. Personal fitness is purely a choice that an individual makes on their own.
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    Originally Posted by FLChamp View Post
    Women are not health destroyers (in that regard, anyway; situations are everything and you could even argue that for men...but I digress lmfao), and BMI is not an accurate predictor of health. My BMI is 32, and my health markers are at the best they've ever been. I'm loving this sub-60bpm resting heart rate and blood pressure under 110/80, along with other markers of good cardiovascular health that I have. Stop trying to blame women for this. Personal fitness is purely a choice that an individual makes on their own.
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    Just do you and the girl you actually want will take care of herself.
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    Cardiovascular performance is a good indicator of conditioning, if one day your cardiovascular performance suffers dramatically on a "normal" attempt (meaning your not sick), then that's a good indicator ones health could be suffering, it would be wise to get checked out.

    An example, (true story) a person who eats healthy and trains one day wakes up with a headache and can't do anything stressful without severe pain, he checks himself in and needs a stint, it's all genetics, he stopped taking his meds. after getting in shape, is he considered "healthy", he seems to be, but because of genetics he now must carry Nitroglycerin pills. I worked with the dude, and when he came back to work, that was the first question I asked. I generally think he is "healthier" than me, he can run longer than me, but he can't keep up with the squats with me, unless he uses less depth, and still, it's too much for him. He has a full pretty six pack all year round, I don't, we are only 3 years age difference, this happened to him 2 years ago.

    Cardio is cardio no matter how you approach it, high reps squats are great cardio, if you don't "practice" running, then you may get tired quickly, just as if you don't "practice" squats, you'll get tired quickly.

    The difference is running only does NOT build strength, high rep squats builds BOTH strength and cardio, therefore is superior.

    Living to 100 is no indicator of good health, quality of life is an indicator of good health.

    This is just critical thinking, I'm not obsessed with being "healthy", healthy people die everyday.

    The moral is you may only be healthy as your last workout. That's why I don't count "deload" or "light/med effort" days, LOL.
    Last edited by LWW; 09-23-2019 at 08:40 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Arizona45 View Post
    Many men, athletes, the average Joe, and couch potatoes alike have a fear of being too thin. Obviously, athletes such as marathoners, middleweight and lightweight boxers, cyclists, and those who must be thin to succeed at their sport are a minority for whom being thin is an asset.

    Polls have shown, however, that women tend to gravitate towards men who have a BMI towards the upper range of normal or even those who are slightly overweight. This trend, in addition to men being perceived as weak if too thin, has, in my opinion, been exacerbating both the obesity crisis and health problems in this country. We all see those guys at the gym who can lift plenty but they are not athletes. They are obese and would be better served if they had a BMI between 20-25.

    Are women, in part, to blame for this trend towards toxic "masculinity?" Is strength or size at the expense of health the new norm for the majority of American men? Has America's understanding about what a man should truly look like become unhealthy?

    P.S. I recently took a poll on Facebook and showed women a picture of Oscar de la Hoya during his prime. They all said he was too thin. I told them he could whip the tar out of their husbands or boyfriends. They either denied the statement or said it may be so but they did not care. To them, a man should have meat on his bones.
    Those who lift tend not to be at the center of the bell curve. Polls show, however, that the bulk of responses from preference questions come from people who cluster around that bell curve mean.

    So if we are not average men, why should we care what average women prefer? Those polls are meaningless. We are not attracted to average women, and average women are not attracted to us. Big deal.


    I found a woman who is very far from average, nowhere near the bell curve center. She happens to like the fact that I'm not there either. So who cares what the average woman thinks? Men can't blame women for their preferences when they are the ones seeking out the women that have those preferences. Men need to take responsibility for their own health, period, and stop looking for someone else to blame.
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    Registered User Arizona45's Avatar
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    Yes

    Originally Posted by jademonkey View Post
    BMI is stupid. 20-25? Looks like I'm "overweight" at 13% body fat.
    I agree that people can be clinically "overweight" yet in excellent shape. BMI alone is a poor indicator of overall health. THat said, however, for non-athletes or recreational athletes, statistics show that people with a BMI between 19 and 25 are healthier than their heavier counterparts.
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    Registered User Arizona45's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by waknickm View Post
    Which picture did they show? The 119 lb fighter at the junior Olympics? Yes he looks small when he first started fighting. At his high fighting weight of 147, he looks pretty strong.
    The picture shown was of Oscar de la Hoya at his high fighting weight. As another poster has noted, obesity has become the new normal for this Country. Many non-athletes see a man of 5'9" or 5'10" and around 150 pounds as abnormally thin, regardless of athletic ability or physical condition. I am nearly 5'11" and 182 pounds. At 45, I am not interested in becoming a muscle monster. I am seriously considering dropping to 160 while continuing to hit the weights and cardio hard. At 160, I am sure I could accomplish much more. The extra 22 pounds serves as nothing but a hindrance.
    Last edited by Arizona45; 09-24-2019 at 01:04 AM.
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    Registered User Arizona45's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    Cardiovascular performance is a good indicator of conditioning, if one day your cardiovascular performance suffers dramatically on a "normal" attempt (meaning your not sick), then that's a good indicator ones health could be suffering, it would be wise to get checked out.

    An example, (true story) a person who eats healthy and trains one day wakes up with a headache and can't do anything stressful without severe pain, he checks himself in and needs a stint, it's all genetics, he stopped taking his meds. after getting in shape, is he considered "healthy", he seems to be, but because of genetics he now must carry Nitroglycerin pills. I worked with the dude, and when he came back to work, that was the first question I asked. I generally think he is "healthier" than me, he can run longer than me, but he can't keep up with the squats with me, unless he uses less depth, and still, it's too much for him. He has a full pretty six pack all year round, I don't, we are only 3 years age difference, this happened to him 2 years ago.

    Cardio is cardio no matter how you approach it, high reps squats are great cardio, if you don't "practice" running, then you may get tired quickly, just as if you don't "practice" squats, you'll get tired quickly.

    The difference is running only does NOT build strength, high rep squats builds BOTH strength and cardio, therefore is superior.

    Living to 100 is no indicator of good health, quality of life is an indicator of good health.

    This is just critical thinking, I'm not obsessed with being "healthy", healthy people die everyday.

    The moral is you may only be healthy as your last workout. That's why I don't count "deload" or "light/med effort" days, LOL.
    Thanks for the thoughtful response. I love the "you may only be as healthy as your last workout" part. Yes, physically conditioned people can die of cancer, heart disease, or any number of problems. Many people who are physically conditioned have atherosclerosis and are time bombs. They have no idea. The famous runner Jim Fixx died in the 1980s from sudden cardiac death while on his daily run. He was 52-years-old. You are also right that running builds cardiovascular endurance, not overall body strength. I try to focus on whole body fitness. I recognize that exercise helps improve quality of life but, as ou noted, exercise is no guarantor of a long life. Genetics play a huge role.
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    Originally Posted by ElrondHubbard View Post
    Those who lift tend not to be at the center of the bell curve. Polls show, however, that the bulk of responses from preference questions come from people who cluster around that bell curve mean.

    So if we are not average men, why should we care what average women prefer? Those polls are meaningless. We are not attracted to average women, and average women are not attracted to us. Big deal.


    I found a woman who is very far from average, nowhere near the bell curve center. She happens to like the fact that I'm not there either. So who cares what the average woman thinks? Men can't blame women for their preferences when they are the ones seeking out the women that have those preferences. Men need to take responsibility for their own health, period, and stop looking for someone else to blame.
    Well said. People must take responsibility for their actions and find a sense of intrinsic worth. I am glad you recognize that. With age comes wisdom, for some.
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    Originally Posted by Arizona45 View Post
    I agree that people can be clinically "overweight" yet in excellent shape. BMI alone is a poor indicator of overall health. THat said, however, for non-athletes or recreational athletes, statistics show that people with a BMI between 19 and 25 are healthier than their heavier counterparts.
    Dwayne Johnson is morbidly obese and also has a very low body fat %.

    BMI is excellent useful tool but like any tool needs to be applied at the right time for the right job.
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    Married men live longer than unmarried men so... no.
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    Originally Posted by sy2502 View Post
    Married men live longer than unmarried men so... no.
    That used to be true, but I wonder if it still is. Marriage and its alternatives are a bit different now, I think, than when those famous studies were conducted.
    I'm out, standing in my field.

    64 and still a newbie.
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    t-rex arms Jdizzlean's Avatar
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    in medieval times, not being skinny was seen as being rich, as you could afford to eat all you wanted. today's generation is much more concerned w/ the hook up culture, and marriage is on the decline. in fact, it's far more common now to be on your 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or more marriage than to still be on your first.

    i mean, the dad bod is a thing now that you don't have to be embarrassed by, and is also sought after....

    BMI, strength, that athletic look, those are all still things, but they are less important to the average person, man or woman, then they used to be.
    my workout blog: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=177584181&p=1588523911#post1588523911
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