Fierce 5 Upper-Lower 4 days Question

[riplemmy]

Long story short: I need a modified fierce 5, do you approve this?


Hello, i can be considered as novice, i'm 6"1 160lbs skinny fat right now and want to lower bodyfat first then add muscle mass. I wanted to do fierce 5 routines because of its high reputation but my gym is very limited so i couldn't. I consulted help from forum for my gym program but everyone suggested me to just do fierce 5. Now since my gym has machines and some dumbbells, i have to modify fierce 5 to make it work. I read the thread about substitions but i have some more, so i want to ask you guys if i'm doing it right or i'm just wasting time.

Original program is below, i wrote substitions i thought near

Upper A
Bench 3x5 ---> Dumbbell Bench
Incline Bench 3x8 ---> Incline Dumbbell Bench
Lat Pulldowns 3x8 (any grip)
Bent Over Rows 3x8 ---> One Dumbbell Row or maybe Low-Row Machine?
Curls 3x10/Reverse Flies 3x12 Superset

Lower A
Squats 3x5 --->Split squats or Goblet squats
Weighted Back Extensions 3x8
Leg Press 3x10
Leg Curls 3x10
Ab work 3x15/Calf raises 3x12 Superset

Upper B
OHP 3x5
Flies 3x10 - Incline Dumbbell Press
Pullups 3x8
Pendlay Rows 3x8 ---> Low Row Machine?
Face Pulls 3x12/Tricep pressdowns 3x10 Superset

Lower B
Front Squat 3x5 ---> Leg Press
Romanian Deadlift 3x8 ---> Good Mornings
Leg Extensions 3x10
Leg Curls 3x10
Ab work 3x15/Calf Raises 3x12 Superset


I have one one more question; can i use ez bar for shoulder presses and deadlifts? Because my gym doesnt have olympic barbells. I can give rdls with ez bar a try :/

[goodworkouts]

Hi riplemmy! Interesting situation. I will go through your substitutions one by one. Remember this is just my take on the subject, trying to be helpful. I'm not the author of Fierce 5, what I'm saying just comes from my own lifting experience and study.


Flat BB -> Flat DB and Incline BB -> Incline DB

This is fine, as they are both effective pressing movements. The only issue you run into here is with Fierce 5's progression. You might be supposed to add 5lbs every other week or every week. But with DB's, you have to do 5 pound increments in each hand, or 10 at a time. But, to make that okay, just try to match the weight progression as best you can using DB's. For example,

wk 1 40x8 40x8 40x8
wk 2 45x8 40x8 40x8
wk 3 45x8 45x8 40x8
wk 4 45x8 45x8 45x8
wk 5 50x8 45x8 45x8
wk 6 50x8 50x8 45x8
... (or replace 8 reps with 5 reps if you're doing a 5 rep exercise)
and so on, i think you see the pattern. Same progression could apply to other DB exercises.


Bent over rows -> One arm DB row or Low Row

Maybe the 1 arm DB row here, and the low row on the other day. They are all horizontal back exercises, so its okay.


Squats 3x5 -> Goblet squats or split squats

goblet squats you might run out of arm strength before you run out of leg strength. Split squats, may be better, using DB's and the progression I stated above. Actually, some coaches recommend split squats over squats, for athletic reasons. The form is a little trickier on split squats though. You could also do single leg step-ups onto a bench or a platform. They don't require as much balance as split squats so it might be easier to focus on strength.


Pendlay rows 3x8 -> Low rows 3x8

Yes that's okay. They're both horizontal back movements. You could probably even do a pendlay-low row machine hybrid if you set the seat at a specific setting. But its also OK just to do regular low row machine on this.


Front squat -> Leg Press

If you don't have access to a barbell and rack for squats then this is OK for now. Make sure you use good form on leg press, full range of motion, etc. But, yes, this is OK.


Romanian Deadlift -> Good mornings

First of all make sure to look up Hip Hinge on youtube and get good form on these. A lot of people mis-understand this exercise and don't get as much out of it.
Can you do Romanian Deadlift with Dumbbells? Using the same progression as I mentioned on the DB presses (with different weights as needed of course)


The EZ bar is technically okay for any barbell exercise, except the fact that it has the bent parts in it. Those might get in the way or put your wrists at an awkward angle depending where you grip it. But, I think you could do overhead press and romanian DL with dumbbells too. Dumbbells might be easier to use on those exercises than the EZ bar. Would that be OK?

If you do use the EZ bar, make sure to grip it on the straight parts. That will keep your wrist in alignment when lifting.


I hope this has helped. You are doing a good job figuring out substitutions for your particular situation. Like I said, I'm not the author of Fierce 5, just someone with general understanding of some aspects of lifting. I think you can get good gains from your routine with those substitutions.

[riplemmy]

Thank you a lot for your message, it helped a lot. I solved ez bar situation, i went to the iron factory near here for 5 days and found an iron bar with very low cost, it was just a trash for factory actually. Then i bought two bags of cement, mixed it with water and shaped it with shovel to fit the bar so i will be available to add my concrete blocks to the bar. Its not an olympic barbell but better than ez bar i think. I'm waiting the cement to dry now.

I have one more question for you; i want to prioritize my upper body so i'm thinking of doing upper routine more than 2 per week.
For example:

Day 1 Upper A
Day 2 Lower A
Day 3 Off
Day 4 Upper B
Day 5 Lower B
Day 6 Upper A
Day 7 Upper B

If this looks ridiculous or overwhelming, i thought lowering lower body to one per week. It would look like below:

Day 1 Upper A
Day 2 Lower A
Day 3 Off
Day 4 Upper B
Day 5 Off
Day 6 Upper A
Day 7 Upper B

Is this logical ?

[goodworkouts]

Thank you a lot for your message, it helped a lot. I solved ez bar situation, i went to the iron factory near here for 5 days and found an iron bar with very low cost, it was just a trash for factory actually. Then i bought two bags of cement, mixed it with water and shaped it with shovel to fit the bar so i will be available to add my concrete blocks to the bar. Its not an olympic barbell but better than ez bar i think. I'm waiting the cement to dry now.

I have one more question for you; i want to prioritize my upper body so i'm thinking of doing upper routine more than 2 per week.
For example:

Day 1 Upper A
Day 2 Lower A
Day 3 Off
Day 4 Upper B
Day 5 Lower B
Day 6 Upper A
Day 7 Upper B

If this looks ridiculous or overwhelming, i thought lowering lower body to one per week. It would look like below:

Day 1 Upper A
Day 2 Lower A
Day 3 Off
Day 4 Upper B
Day 5 Off
Day 6 Upper A
Day 7 Upper B

Is this logical ?

Hi riplemmy! Sorry it took a few days to get back to you. I don't think you would want to do 3 upper body days in a row. It's my understanding that the muscles need 48-72 hours of rest at a minimum before they're ready again. So, the most you could do upper body would be 3X a week, such as this

Monday, upper body
Tuesday, lower body
Wednesday, upper body
Thursday, off
Friday, lower body
Saturday, upper body
Sunday, off

Then you have at least 48 hours between upper body, maybe 72 some times. You'd rotate between Upper A and Upper B or Lower A and Lower B of course.

That's a very creative solution for the barbell issue, good job! It's amazing how a barbell could cost like $50 but they are throwing away 1-2" rod in factories and shops. Good thinking.

[riplemmy]

Hi riplemmy! Sorry it took a few days to get back to you. I don't think you would want to do 3 upper body days in a row. It's my understanding that the muscles need 48-72 hours of rest at a minimum before they're ready again. So, the most you could do upper body would be 3X a week, such as this

Monday, upper body
Tuesday, lower body
Wednesday, upper body
Thursday, off
Friday, lower body
Saturday, upper body
Sunday, off

Then you have at least 48 hours between upper body, maybe 72 some times. You'd rotate between Upper A and Upper B or Lower A and Lower B of course.

That's a very creative solution for the barbell issue, good job! It's amazing how a barbell could cost like $50 but they are throwing away 1-2" rod in factories and shops. Good thinking.

I will consider your suggestions, at least 48h between same muscles i get it. There are some guys who train everyday and they claim they get better results with it, thats what made me think that way but i'll stick with what you said.

About barbell subject, a barbell set costs major part of my salary here (equals to a couple hundreds of dollars) so i couldn't have a chance to buy one. I wish i were lucky as usa and eu guys and live in wealth like them

[goodworkouts]

I will consider your suggestions, at least 48h between same muscles i get it. There are some guys who train everyday and they claim they get better results with it, thats what made me think that way but i'll stick with what you said.

Well, if you want to try training them multiple days in a row, and that makes sense to you, then you certainly could. I have heard of people training muscles multiple days in a row as well. There was one youtube channel where they just trained arms every day. So, it could work. You could give it a try and see how it goes for you, everyone's different. I don't mean to totally negate the idea.

About barbell subject, a barbell set costs major part of my salary here (equals to a couple hundreds of dollars) so i couldn't have a chance to buy one. I wish i were lucky as usa and eu guys and live in wealth like them

Oh, wow I didn't know that. Well, that's great that you're doing the best you can with in your circumstances. I think you will still be able to get good results with the equipment you have.