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  1. #61
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    Originally Posted by bigcat3655 View Post

    2- as a first responder, I've been present at the moment of death for a few dozen people over the years. When someone does, the light visibly goes out in their eyes. When I go on calls, I can immediately tell who will make it to the hospital or who will be DOA. I see this as their spirit leaving their body.
    This must be really freaking hard. My hat's off to you.
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  2. #62
    Registered User Showerbuddy's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=t_raven;1587901461]If you don't believe in evolution, you're just ignoring the evidence.

    Think about how many thousands of species are on this planet that you've never seen. I bet most of us couldn't name more than 50. This is why I laugh at the Noah's ark story. Imagine living in a time period before cameras existed. If you never left your area, you'd only know of maybe 20 different animals. The idea of putting them all on a boat might make sense to that guy, but if someone knew how many species there really are, that would be a ridiculous concept for a story.

    There are fish that live in mud


    There are fish that climb walls


    There are mammals that lay eggs, fly or live in water. There are birds that don't fly.

    I don't even know all the species in the world or I could give a lot more examples. Not to mention the millions of species that are extinct. In fact, the majority of everything that has every lived is extinct.

    I think birds and fish are the most obvious proof of evolution. Does this look like something that the omnipotent, loving creator of the universe actually designed, or does it look like something that adapted to survive in the disgusting cesspool that is the ocean?


    Fish that climb walls and live in mud doesn't really grab me. There still fish. Same with birds that can't fly. Still birds. Humans can be white, black, asian, orange hair and brown hair etc but we are still humans.

    If birds came from reptiles then how come the reptiles we have now don't do that? People on here sign but why cant you just answer the question? Same with primates not becoming humans but then our ancestor went through like 10 stages to become humans. Why didn't they, they didn't evolve at all. We all apparently came from the sea so show me a sea creature that's learning to breath air? you know.
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  3. #63
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    Rather than addressing the ID vs. evolution angle...I’m going to touch on why the concept of religion itself is flawed:

    1. There are hundreds of recorded religions, from current to historic. What are the odds that 1 of them are right and the others wrong?

    2. Religions sprang up by geography; if a religion was “the true” religion, wouldn’t it be experienced/practiced all over the globe?

    3. You are the religion you are...because of where/when you were born. As someone else pointed out, if you were born in China, you’d be a Buddhist, if you were born in Iran, you’d be Muslim, etc. Your religion is a genetic lottery.

    4. Most religious texts were written by people who didn’t know what gravity was, where the sun went at night, what an atom is, etc...it’s an attempt by early man to explain things they hadn’t yet been able to explain with science. It’s their attempt at explaining the unknown and giving meaning to chaos.
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  4. #64
    Registered User Johnez's Avatar
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    On why current animals aren't evolving, how do you know they aren't? There are some actual real time cases. I've read of moths in England that have changed their color because of all the soot that used to cover the trees, they evolved a darker color to match the trees and avoid being eaten by birds.

    As for why animals are the same for millions of years-they've evolved for the environment they are in.

    In addition, this is my largely unscientific view, but evolution as I understand it is random mutation. Every generation throws off certain differences, in fish it's different coloration, larger or smaller fins, longer or shorter shape, whatever it's random-like a roll of the dice. Then whatever survives either carries on that mutation, and if it's widespread enough, it sticks. Albinism is an example of mostly failed mutation. When that shows up, most times the fish is easier to spot by predators and therefore fails to thrive. There are species of fish that started in the same region that sometimes end up splitting into two regions-the fish sometimes change so much that collectors don't recognize them as the same species until they are analyzed.
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  5. #65
    Registered User Showerbuddy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Johnez View Post
    On why current animals aren't evolving, how do you know they aren't? There are some actual real time cases. I've read of moths in England that have changed their color because of all the soot that used to cover the trees, they evolved a darker color to match the trees and avoid being eaten by birds.

    As for why animals are the same for millions of years-they've evolved for the environment they are in.

    In addition, this is my largely unscientific view, but evolution as I understand it is random mutation. Every generation throws off certain differences, in fish it's different coloration, larger or smaller fins, longer or shorter shape, whatever it's random-like a roll of the dice. Then whatever survives either carries on that mutation, and if it's widespread enough, it sticks. Albinism is an example of mostly failed mutation. When that shows up, most times the fish is easier to spot by predators and therefore fails to thrive. There are species of fish that started in the same region that sometimes end up splitting into two regions-the fish sometimes change so much that collectors don't recognize them as the same species until they are analyzed.
    Yeah that moth thing was in Richard Dawkins book the greatest show on earth (about evolution). My understanding is cos everything was black the black moths blended in and survived while the white ones were eaten cos they stood out. It wasn't actually a mutation. I still think we should see tons of animals that are clearly turning into something else though.
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  6. #66
    Registered User bigcat3655's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sunsean View Post
    Rather than addressing the ID vs. evolution angle...I’m going to touch on why the concept of religion itself is flawed:

    1. There are hundreds of recorded religions, from current to historic. What are the odds that 1 of them are right and the others wrong?

    2. Religions sprang up by geography; if a religion was “the true” religion, wouldn’t it be experienced/practiced all over the globe?

    3. You are the religion you are...because of where/when you were born. As someone else pointed out, if you were born in China, you’d be a Buddhist, if you were born in Iran, you’d be Muslim, etc. Your religion is a genetic lottery.

    4. Most religious texts were written by people who didn’t know what gravity was, where the sun went at night, what an atom is, etc...it’s an attempt by early man to explain things they hadn’t yet been able to explain with science. It’s their attempt at explaining the unknown and giving meaning to chaos.
    The religions of the world are not that different at their core, another reason I'm still spiritual. I don't believe there is a right religion and wrong ones, just different interpretations of the same God. The individual prophets make up different rules to follow for better or worse, but the belief system itself is very similar across most cultures.
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  7. #67
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    Every time I visit my home country I see evolution, back then when I lived there people were drinking out of a well, using an outdoors toilet, using candles for electricity. Even the chickens I see my relatives raise go under the olive trees for shade these days.
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  8. #68
    Registered User yeshli2nuts's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Showerbuddy View Post
    I would respond to you but i think your just ganna start abusing me like everyone on this forum tries to do to each other over the stupidest things. Just cos i have a different opinion doesn't make me stupid at all. If we can't have a respectful conversation then i won't reply.
    Like someone else said, it's hard to respond when you have such a lack of basic biology...

    Originally Posted by Showerbuddy View Post
    Also, a guy posted a picture of how an eye evolved. But that's just a theory, it's not proven. I don't see how a 1000th of an eye or ear or organ can be of any value. You need them working right away. That's just my opinion.
    Not seeing how 1000th of an eye or ear can be of any value shows what kind of lack of understanding of biology you have. When you have all the members of your specie that cannot detect light whatsoever, and another member that has a 1000th of an eye, that 1000th of an eye is a huge advantage. How do you not understand that?
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  9. #69
    The Real American AriGhold's Avatar
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    Repped. I disagree with the body of your post, OP, but you framed it well. Saying “why I believe” vs “why god is real” is far more appropriate. Nothing wrong with having faith.
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  10. #70
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    Originally Posted by IawI View Post
    OP let me fix this thread for you.

    Why I believe in Christianity - Because it's true.

    You don't need to say more. These fedora wearing retard phaggots aren't worth your time. They're going to burn in hell.
    . There is no hell in a correctly translated Bible. That word is not from the Jews or Greeks.
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  11. #71
    Wage Cuckin' It BetaAsPhuck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Showerbuddy View Post
    Yeah that moth thing was in Richard Dawkins book the greatest show on earth (about evolution). My understanding is cos everything was black the black moths blended in and survived while the white ones were eaten cos they stood out. It wasn't actually a mutation..
    That's natural selection.

    Those with traits that allow them to survive (the environment, interactions with other species, acquiring resources, etc), are the ones that procreate.

    Those with the gene mutation that made their wings black, were the ones that survived and procreated.

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  12. #72
    Wage Cuckin' It BetaAsPhuck's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by rectifryer View Post
    . There is no hell in a correctly translated Bible. That word is not from the Jews or Greeks.
    I wrote this in a previous thread...

    Hades is a term used in the Bible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_Hades

    As is the term Gehenna - which refers to the valley of Hinnom, a physical place that literally existed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehenna

    They are both translated into English as Hell, despite them being 2 different concepts.

    Although a lot of people ITT believe the mainstream interpretation that Hell is a place of merciless torture, for not being intellectually convinced that Jesus is God. The concept of Gehinnom - developed from Gehenna - in Judaism, is not punishment...

    Gehinnom. - Judaism - The realm of the afterlife where unrepentant souls are cleansed of their spiritual impurities before returning to the presence of God.

    Which is what I wrote about in my first post ITT...

    https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...post1587337831

    Note: Islam took the term Gehinnom and transformed it into the Arabic Jahannam - a place of merciless torture.

    What is seems like is that Gehanna became the term Gehinnom, a term referring to a place in the afterlife for cleansing for souls turned away from, by using a physical cursed place - The valley of Hinnom - for metaphorical effect. Then the concept seemed to change in Roman Catholicism and Islam (Jahannam), and became a place of everlasting torture by God/angels/Demons for being unbelievers.=
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  13. #73
    Registered User Showerbuddy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by yeshli2nuts View Post
    Like someone else said, it's hard to respond when you have such a lack of basic biology...



    Not seeing how 1000th of an eye or ear can be of any value shows what kind of lack of understanding of biology you have. When you have all the members of your specie that cannot detect light whatsoever, and another member that has a 1000th of an eye, that 1000th of an eye is a huge advantage. How do you not understand
    that?
    Well if i don't know squat then just correct me then instead of saying how dumb how dumb. Surely it won't take that long. Yes i understand natural selection. Supposedly the 1000th of eye allowed them to tell day from night and PERHAPS avoid a predator or something and that's why it spread. I understand it. i just think you pretty much need an eye up and running now or it will barely do anything. Scientists just assume the first eye had a benefit and that the first eye could tell day from night but it's assumptions and i'm allowed to think the way i do. But hey, if i'm dead wrong then correct me? You've been posting a lot so just correct me then.
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    Registered User yeshli2nuts's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Showerbuddy View Post
    Well if i don't know squat then just correct me then instead of saying how dumb how dumb. Surely it won't take that long. Yes i understand natural selection. Supposedly the 1000th of eye allowed them to tell day from night and PERHAPS avoid a predator or something and that's why it spread. I understand it. i just think you pretty much need an eye up and running now or it will barely do anything. Scientists just assume the first eye had a benefit and that the first eye could tell day from night but it's assumptions and i'm allowed to think the way i do. But hey, if i'm dead wrong then correct me? You've been posting a lot so just correct me then.
    We're not talking about now, when all animals already have fully working eyes. We're talking about hundreds of millions of years ago when the eye evolved.
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    Devil's advocate GreatOldOne's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigcat3655 View Post
    I'm not religious per se, but I do believe in God and buy into a lot of spiritual ideas. This is for two reasons

    1- the idea of the big bang, that in the beginning there was nothing, then it exploded, is as rediculous as a being that created everything. I believe in evolution as well, God created life then left it alone to do what it will

    2- as a first responder, I've been present at the moment of death for a few dozen people over the years. When someone does, the light visibly goes out in their eyes. When I go on calls, I can immediately tell who will make it to the hospital or who will be DOA. I see this as their spirit leaving their body.
    Regarding 1)
    As long as there was time, there was a universe. The universe is eternal. There is no time before time where there was "no thing, no space".

    Regarding 2)
    Thanks for what you do.

    I believe you.

    Believe in God, too.

    Not sure what it means, and not sure that I need to worry about theology or religion to any specific or great extent.

    There's plenty wrong with believing Christianity being historically true in terms of important events...but who cares? Jesus's two commandments are still good.

    Lots of ways to argue against the aesthetics and morality of a Christian version God...but it's a waste of time to do so.

    It does more good than harm.

    I used to believe the opposite.
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    Registered User Paul Kreul's Avatar
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    To some of the points brought up in the thread
    -Every religon/culture has a story of an ancient flood, why would so many speak of one if it never happened? Yes I realize their world view accounts for a very small geographic size, nonetheless they all speak of one.

    -There are more Christians in China than there are in America, more & more Jews are coming to Christ (as I brought up in another thread-Messianic Jews) an astonishing number of Palestinians are coming to Christ & the numbers continue to rise(more people leave other religions compared to Christianity than convert to another)

    -Change over time simply does not work. I've explained it before. There is not enough time, not even 4 billion years(not even close) to produce a relatively short protein. There had to be a directing hand of creation guiding the process, or simply created whole. If you start randomly changing things, your overwhelmingly more likely to find a gibberish sequence than a functional one. As you try to quantify that, how much more likely, the quantitative odds are prohibitive.
    There are only 10 to the 40th organisms in the history of the planet, there are not enough replication events to search a space 10to the 77th compass. The hypothesis that the mechanism will produce an advantageous sequence is undoubtedly going to be false rather than true.

    -As I mentioned before, non-biogenesis just doesnt happen and life defys entropy..when bowling balls roll uphill thats when molecules will self-arrange into unstable molecules and genetic codes and trillion cell animals ..its like thinking sand and limestone and iron ore and water will defy their present chemical stability and spontaneously form a concrete and steel building. Anything we observe had a Creator, programs, yet we are told to believe the case is different for us. It takes more faith to believe in Evolution than to believe I had a maker, a God that wants a relationship with me.
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    Originally Posted by Paul Kreul View Post
    It takes more faith to believe in Evolution than to believe I had a maker, a God that wants a relationship with me.
    Believing the theory of evolution and being a theist aren't mutually exclusive. (It seems to me, that you are implying that they are.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theistic_evolution

    Abiogenesis is a different scientific field to Evolutionary Biology.
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    Originally Posted by Paul Kreul View Post
    To some of the points brought up in the thread
    -Every religon/culture has a story of an ancient flood, why would so many speak of one if it never happened? Yes I realize their world view accounts for a very small geographic size, nonetheless they all speak of one.

    -There are more Christians in China than there are in America, more & more Jews are coming to Christ (as I brought up in another thread-Messianic Jews) an astonishing number of Palestinians are coming to Christ & the numbers continue to rise(more people leave other religions compared to Christianity than convert to another)

    -Change over time simply does not work. I've explained it before. There is not enough time, not even 4 billion years(not even close) to produce a relatively short protein. There had to be a directing hand of creation guiding the process, or simply created whole. If you start randomly changing things, your overwhelmingly more likely to find a gibberish sequence than a functional one. As you try to quantify that, how much more likely, the quantitative odds are prohibitive.
    There are only 10 to the 40th organisms in the history of the planet, there are not enough replication events to search a space 10to the 77th compass. The hypothesis that the mechanism will produce an advantageous sequence is undoubtedly going to be false rather than true.

    -As I mentioned before, non-biogenesis just doesnt happen and life defys entropy..when bowling balls roll uphill thats when molecules will self-arrange into unstable molecules and genetic codes and trillion cell animals ..its like thinking sand and limestone and iron ore and water will defy their present chemical stability and spontaneously form a concrete and steel building. Anything we observe had a Creator, programs, yet we are told to believe the case is different for us. It takes more faith to believe in Evolution than to believe I had a maker, a God that wants a relationship with me.
    Simply posting creationist talking points, with little understanding of science, doesn't make your arguments persuasive whatsoever. For anyone reading, you can consult people who are very qualified to talk about biology or the second law of thermodynamics (such as a scientist, or a text), or you can listen to the musings of this random poster on the misc. Nothing more needs said.
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    We can go back & forth on the science all week, numberguy is vastly more knowledgeable than me, but that does not change the fact that my arguments still hold true. One can be knowledgeable & still be lead to the wrong conclusion. The math does not work.

    Here's the thing, if I am wrong, if all Christians have it wrong..so what...? It has made me a better person, a better husband, a better employee & employer, a better friend,...but if they are wrong..we know the repercussions..why would you not want to experience God now rather than have to answer to Him later...?
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    Originally Posted by Paul Kreul View Post
    Here's the thing, if I am wrong, if all Christians have it wrong..so what...? It has made me a better person, a better husband, a better employee & employer, a better friend,...but if they are wrong..we know the repercussions..why would you not want to experience God now rather than have to answer to Him later...?
    Friendly advice from a fellow Christian...

    Pascal's wager is a deeply flawed argument.

    From an Athiest perspective... There are multiple religions, all claiming exclusivity and penalty/negative consequence for unbelief. So Pascal's wager would apply to all of those other religions to.

    Also... It's a fear based argument, and IME... Atheists (and even Christians) are increasingly becoming disdainful of fear based religions/arguments.
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    Originally Posted by BetaAsPhuck View Post
    Friendly advice from a fellow Christian...

    Pascal's wager is a deeply flawed argument.

    From an Athiest perspective... There are multiple religions, all claiming exclusivity and penalty/negative consequence for unbelief. So Pascal's wager would apply to all of those other religions to.

    Also... It's a fear based argument, and IME... Atheists (and even Christians) are increasingly becoming disdainful of fear based religions/arguments.
    I appreciate the response, & I completely understand, times are changing..but I'm afraid I must disagree. Many churches have moved away from a condemning tone for sin. Nowadays it's accept all, all paths lead to God, don't worry about how you act on Friday, just as long as you come Sunday. A prosperity Gospel that says live free, God is gracious.
    That does not align with Scripture. Yes God is gracious, & forgiveing, but He is not to be mocked.

    I wasn't trying to come at anyone with a fear based Gospel, quite the contrary. As you see from my previous post, God has been better to me than I could ever deserve . He has blessed me, though I have failed repeatedly. God is good..my point is, why would anyone not want a blessed life now while it still can be obtained..?

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    whats fermis paradox solution? are the aliens hidin from us? did we get spermiated?

    whats the odds of god being real, except he's just a galaxy faring alien being. maybe even long since extinct.

    like 'is:



    literal black box to replace a figurative black box


    maybe they dont talk to us bc prime directive
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    Originally Posted by Showerbuddy View Post
    I did look into evolution. Tons of animals in the past were between two animals and now there's nothing like that. It's not stupid at all. He posted a seal. Well that's one animal and i should be seeing thousands of them. Besides if it's only a few animals you can show me god could have made them like that. If there were seals that had legs and lived on land and then the seals that were near water had the flipper/legs we have today that could be evolution. But the seals aren't like that.
    literally every animal is between two animals. evolution is not a series of points, but a continuum. some change more rapidly than others. a crocodile is slow, and viruses or mice and lizards evolve rapidly. even that pace is in flux. gators might go fast in the next million years if the pressure is different.

    literally ever critter on earth is between two other critters. except if they go extinct.
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    I am Ra. I greet you in the love and the light of the Infinite Creator. I communicate now.

    This concept is incorrect as is any concept of the one intelligent infinity. This concept is correct in the context of one particular Logos, or Love, or focus of this Creator which has chosen Its, shall we say, natural laws and ways of expressing them mathematically and otherwise.

    The one undifferentiated intelligent infinity, unpolarized, full and whole, is the macrocosm of the mystery-clad being. We are messengers of the Law of One. Unity, at this approximation of understanding, cannot be specified by any physics but only be activated or potentiated intelligent infinity due to the catalyst of free will. This may be difficult to accept. However, the understandings we have to share begin and end in mystery.

    The Law of One, though beyond the limitations of name, as you call vibratory sound complexes, may be approximated by stating that all things are one, that there is no polarity, no right or wrong, no disharmony, but only identity. All is one, and that one is love/light, light/love, the Infinite Creator.

    The galaxy and all other things of material of which you are aware are products of individualized portions of intelligent infinity. As each exploration began, it, in turn, found its focus and became co-Creator. Using intelligent infinity each portion created an universe and allowing the rhythms of free choice to flow, playing with the infinite spectrum of possibilities, each individualized portion channeled the love/light into what you might call intelligent energy, thus creating the so-called natural laws of any particular universe.

    Each universe, in turn, individualized to a focus becoming, in turn, co-Creator and allowing further diversity, thus creating further intelligent energies regularizing or causing natural laws to appear in the vibrational patterns of what you would call a solar system. Thus, each solar system has its own, shall we say, local coordinate system of illusory natural laws. It shall be understood that any portion, no matter how small, of any density or illusory pattern contains, as in an holographic picture, the One Creator which is infinity. Thus all begins and ends in mystery.

    Consider, if you will, that the universe is infinite. This has yet to be proven or disproven, but we can assure you that there is no end to your selves, your understanding, what you would call your journey of seeking, or your perceptions of the creation.

    That which is infinite cannot be many, for many-ness is a finite concept. To have infinity you must identify or define that infinity as unity; otherwise, the term does not have any referent or meaning. In an Infinite Creator there is only unity. You have seen simple examples of unity. You have seen the prism which shows all colors stemming from the sunlight. This is a simplistic example of unity.

    In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.

    We suggest the nature of all manifestation to be illusory and functional only insofar as the entity turns from shape and shadow to the One.

    The intelligent infinity discerned a concept. This concept was discerned due to freedom of will of awareness. This concept was finity. This was the first and primal paradox or distortion of the Law of One. Thus the one intelligent infinity invested itself in an exploration of many-ness. Due to the infinite possibilities of intelligent infinity there is no ending to many-ness. The exploration, thus, is free to continue infinitely in an eternal present.

    After this point, the many-ness of distortions are equal one to another. The first distortion, free will, finds focus. This is the second distortion known to you as Logos, the Creative Principle or Love. This intelligent energy thus creates a distortion known as Light. From these three distortions come many, many hierarchies of distortions, each having its own paradoxes to be synthesized, no one being more important than another.

    This must be defined against the background of intelligent infinity or unity or the One Creator with the primal distortion of free will. The term Love then may be seen as the focus, the choice of attack, the type of energy of an extremely, shall we say, high order which causes intelligent energy to be formed from the potential of intelligent infinity in just such and such a way. This then may be seen to be an object rather than an activity by some of your peoples, and the principle of this extremely strong energy focus being worshiped as the Creator instead of unity or oneness from which all Loves emanate.

    This planetary Logos is a strong Logos creating approximately two hundred fifty billion [250,000,000,000] of your star systems for Its creation. The, shall we say, laws or physical ways of this creation will remain, therefore, constant.

    We wish to establish that we are truly humble messengers of the Law of One. We can speak to you of our experiences and our understandings and teach/learn in limited ways. However, we cannot speak in firm knowledge of all the creations. We know only that they are infinite. We assume an infinite number of octaves.

    However, it has been impressed upon us by our own teachers that there is a mystery-clad unity of creation in which all consciousness periodically coalesces and again begins. Thus we can only say we assume an infinite progression though we understand it to be cyclical in nature and, as we have said, clad in mystery.

    There are entities of Ra which have served as far Wanderers to those of another Logos. The experience has been one which staggers the intellectual and intuitive capacities, for each Logos sets up an experiment enough at variance from all others that the subtleties of the archetypical mind of another Logos are most murky to the resonating mind, body, and spirit complexes of this Logos.

    This is the plan of the One Infinite Creator. The One Original Thought is the harvest of all previous, if you would use this term, experience of the Creator by the Creator. As It decides to know Itself It generates Itself into that plenum, full of the glory and the power of the One Infinite Creator which is manifested to your perceptions as space or outer space. Each generation of this knowing begets a knowing which has the capacity, through free will, to choose methods of knowing Itself. Therefore, gradually, step by step, the Creator becomes that which may know Itself, and the portions of the Creator partake less purely in the power of the original word or thought. This is for the purpose of refinement of the one original thought. The Creator does not properly create as much as It experiences Itself.

    In the most basic or teleological sense you are incorrect as the One Infinite Creator is all that there is. In an undistorted seed-form you are correct in seeing the first manifestation visible to the eye of the body complex which you inhabit as the third distortion, light, or to use a technical term, limitless light.

    At the beginning of this creation or, as you may call it, octave there were those things known which were the harvest of the preceding octave. About the preceding creation we know as little as we do of the octave to come. However, we are aware of those pieces of gathered concept which were the tools which the Creator had in the knowing of the self.

    These tools were of two kinds. Firstly, there was an awareness of the efficiency for experience of mind, body, and spirit. Secondly, there was an awareness of the most efficacious nature or, if you will, significator of mind, body, and spirit. Thirdly, there was the awareness of two aspects of mind, of body, and of spirit that the significator could use to balance all catalyst. You may call these two the matrix and the potentiator.

    In the mind complex the matrix may be described as consciousness. It has been called the Magician. It is to be noted that of itself consciousness is unmoved. The potentiator of consciousness is the unconscious. This encompasses a vast realm of potential in the mind.

    In the body the matrix may be seen as Balanced Working or Even Functioning. Note that here the matrix is always active with no means of being inactive. The potentiator of the body complex, then, may be called Wisdom for it is only through judgment that the unceasing activities and proclivities of the body complex may be experienced in useful modes.

    You must imagine a great leap of thought in this query, for at the last query the physical, as you call, it, universes were not yet born.

    The energies moved in increasingly intelligent patterns until the individualization of various energies emanating from the creative principle of intelligent infinity became such as to be co-Creators. Thus the so-called physical matter began. The concept of light is instrumental in grasping this great leap of thought as this vibrational distortion of infinity is the building block of that which is known as matter, the light being intelligent and full of energy, thus being the first distortion of intelligent infinity which was called by the creative principle.

    This light of love was made to have in its occurrences of being certain characteristics, among them the infinite whole paradoxically described by the straight line, as you would call it. This paradox is responsible for the shape of the various physical illusion entities you call solar systems, galaxies, and planets, all revolving and tending towards the lenticular. The steps, as you call them, are, at the point of question, simultaneous and infinite.

    The spiraling energy, which is the characteristic of what you call “light,” moves in straight line spiral thus giving spirals an inevitable vector upwards to a more comprehensive beingness with regards to intelligent infinity. Thus, first dimensional beingness strives towards the second-density lessons of a type of awareness which includes growth rather than dissolution or random change.

    Picture, if you will, the difference between first-vibrational mineral or water life and the lower second-density beings which begin to move about within and upon its being. This movement is the characteristic of second density, the striving towards light and growth. A very simplistic example of second-density growth striving towards light is that of the leaf striving towards the source of light.

    May we enunciate this law in more detail?
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    Originally Posted by Showerbuddy View Post
    He said i give religion a bad name. It's just a discussion so what if i don't know everything. Besides i looked at evolution a fair bit. I would say that intelligent design and bible prophecy are logical enough.

    Your stance on evolution is what gives religion a bad name, not you.


    You basically don't understand evolutionary theory at all. You don't see monkeys evolving into humans because monkeys didn't evolve into humans. We have a common ancestor, monkeys are not our predecessors. Also evolution takes millions of years, so there is no way you could view a large enough timeframe to see evolution firsthand.
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    Originally Posted by Paul Kreul View Post
    I appreciate the response, & I completely understand, times are changing..but I'm afraid I must disagree. Many churches have moved away from a condemning tone for sin. Nowadays it's accept all, all paths lead to God, don't worry about how you act on Friday, just as long as you come Sunday. A prosperity Gospel that says live free, God is gracious.
    That does not align with Scripture. Yes God is gracious, & forgiveing, but He is not to be mocked.
    I respect your perspective.

    I prefer approaches that focus on practices that bring about spiritual transformation/ communion with the Lord.

    I wasn't trying to come at anyone with a fear based Gospel, quite the contrary. As you see from my previous post, God has been better to me than I could ever deserve . He has blessed me, though I have failed repeatedly. God is good..my point is, why would anyone not want a blessed life now while it still can be obtained..?
    My mistake interpreting what you wrote then.

    Sorry.

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    Originally Posted by Paul Kreul View Post
    -Origin of information always arises from intelligence.
    -WTC7 was not brought down by fire
    -RvW Was a lie
    -There is nothing in the Constitution that gives a woman a right to an abortion


    The kid loves following me.
    So, these are what we refer to as OPINIONS, they are not facts.



    And for that last bit of stupidity.
    Originally Posted by The US Constitution
    The 14th Amendment prohibits states from depriving a person of liberty without due process of law. A person has the right to end a pregnancy without undue interference from the government because that right to liberty includes (1) the right to make decisions about family and (2) the right to bodily integrity.
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    Originally Posted by Jacobcapra View Post
    Your stance on evolution is what gives religion a bad name, not you.


    You basically don't understand evolutionary theory at all. You don't see monkeys evolving into humans because monkeys didn't evolve into humans. We have a common ancestor, monkeys are not our predecessors. Also evolution takes millions of years, so there is no way you could view a large enough timeframe to see evolution firsthand.
    I know we share a common ancestor but we still evolved from an ape so why didn't the other apes evolve into humanoid species, in fact that stayed apes while we went through 10 different stages over 20 million years. They turned into a slightly different ape while we went through a massive transformation. If it were true then other monkeys would probably be turning into superior humans. You should see them in development. But no, nothing.
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    Originally Posted by Showerbuddy View Post
    I know we share a common ancestor but we still evolved from an ape so why didn't the other apes evolve into humanoid species, in fact that stayed apes while we went through 10 different stages over 20 million years. They turned into a slightly different ape while we went through a massive transformation. If it were true then other monkeys would probably be turning into superior humans. You should see them in development. But no, nothing.
    We did NOT evolve from Apes! Humans and the other Apes evolved from a common ancestor.
    Last edited by Harbinger; 09-17-2019 at 09:23 PM.
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