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    Intermittent Fasting with 2 a days?

    I'm starting to break up my workout routine into 2 sessions, morning around 10-11am and night around 6:30/7pm.

    Usually I save the bigger muscle group for the morning, and a smaller muscle group for the evening.

    I want to start doing IF, perhaps with the 16:8 split. I'm just curious if I should switch the lesser intense workout to the morning when I'm fasting still? (planning on going till 4-12pm for the eating window)

    And also, just for clarification, there's absolutely no issue with working out and not having post-workout protein/carbs, which would be the case for my morning workout?
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    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by dreamache View Post
    I'm starting to break up my workout routine into 2 sessions, morning around 10-11am and night around 6:30/7pm.

    Usually I save the bigger muscle group for the morning, and a smaller muscle group for the evening.

    I want to start doing IF, perhaps with the 16:8 split. I'm just curious if I should switch the lesser intense workout to the morning when I'm fasting still? (planning on going till 4-12pm for the eating window)

    And also, just for clarification, there's absolutely no issue with working out and not having post-workout protein/carbs, which would be the case for my morning workout?
    Why do you want to 'do IF'?
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    I train fasted twice a week, at the end of my 16hr fast.. when HGH is at it's peak.
    This is usually Calisthenics.... and yes i do run out of steam a little faster, but not much.

    I always do cardio (swimming and trail running) fasted with zero difference in energy levels.

    I always do my heavy weight training in a fed state however.

    Thomas DeLauer on Youtube talks a lot about fasted training and IF.
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    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bluejay83 View Post
    I train fasted twice a week, at the end of my 16hr fast.. when HGH is at it's peak.
    This is usually Calisthenics.... and yes i do run out of steam a little faster, but not much.

    I always do cardio (swimming and trail running) fasted with zero difference in energy levels.

    I always do my heavy weight training in a fed state however.

    Thomas DeLauer on Youtube talks a lot about fasted training and IF.
    You might want to do more research...

    HGH changes are going to do zero for u

    And Thomas delauer is nothing more than a YouTube personality with a jaw line.
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    sursum trahatur bluejay83's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    You might want to do more research...

    HGH changes are going to do zero for u

    And Thomas delauer is nothing more than a YouTube personality with a jaw line.
    I have been doing it for 8 months and never seen such good results.
    If you can debunk him scientifically, and show me a physique better than his.... i may listen...
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  6. #6
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bluejay83 View Post
    I have been doing it for 8 months and never seen such good results.
    If you can debunk him scientifically, and show me a physique better than his.... i may listen...
    Oh Lawd... I’m walking away from this one.

    I’ll let someone else explain it to you.
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    IF reduces mTOR signaling, 24 hour MPS and testosterone levels.

    If your trying to gain muscle do the opposite of IF.
    Recommended science based fitness & nutrition information:
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  8. #8
    pay the iron price SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    GH in the absence of energy intake is not to grow muscles, it's to mobilise energy from fat cells.

    You don't grow muscles because you are 'fasting'
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    Originally Posted by bluejay83 View Post
    I have been doing it for 8 months and never seen such good results.
    If you can debunk him scientifically, and show me a physique better than his.... i may listen...
    Quite easy nearly every non-youtube guru who compete. Most if not all semi or pro bodybuilders will not use IF as they actually want to ensure MPS is at optimal level by consume protein on regular period. Generally they will not IF on a bulk and a cut for this reason.

    IF is just a eating schedule nothing else and only really any use during a cut unless you are renowned for overeat calories over a 24hr period and have limited self control around feeding times.

    OP it is down to personal preference if you feel fine training in the morning fasted heavy then carry on and just end your fast within a few hours of it to ensure protein is supplied during high MPS from the weight training.

    If you are trying to building muscle IF is not optimal, as regular feed times of protein are best for MPS, as for cutting fat loss is dictated by calories so this may be useful in limiting eat times in order to stay with your caloric limit. That said you could simply consume a protein sources in the morning e.g. chicken salad, protein shake, tuna, fish etc which is low in calories and still have the vast allocation of calories to consume during your eating window (for convenience).

    This would near enough ensure optimal MPS throughout a waking day.
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    I've been training fasted regularly for a few years. Subjectively I was always feeling that I was doing it hard and had decent energy and a certain wildness to my workouts. But I made no progress with the weights. Same long hard, intense workout from week to week, hardly was able to get any stronger.
    “Fight one more round. When your feet are so tired that you have to shuffle back to the centre of the ring, fight one more round. When your arms are so tired that you can hardly lift your hands to come on guard, fight one more round. When your nose is bleeding and your eyes are black and you are so tired you wish your opponent would crack you one on the jaw and put you to sleep, fight one more round – remembering that the man who always fights one more round is never whipped.”

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    Oh lord if only acute boosts in test and/or HGH actually meant something. Over the counter supps might actually work (jk probably not).

    Anyways, its really up to you OP. Some people can train fasted and feel way better, others perform significantly better with a pre game meal. The better question might be, why split up the workout? Only people who might benefit from 2 a days would be pro athletes who literally live to train and recover. Unless you're that strapped for time I can't see a benefit.

    The last thing this forum needs is another Thomas Delaur zealot so take the chit to the misc.
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  12. #12
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Ghawk21 View Post
    Oh lord if only acute boosts in test and/or HGH actually meant something. Over the counter supps might actually work (jk probably not).

    Anyways, its really up to you OP. Some people can train fasted and feel way better, others perform significantly better with a pre game meal. The better question might be, why split up the workout? Only people who might benefit from 2 a days would be pro athletes who literally live to train and recover. Unless you're that strapped for time I can't see a benefit.

    The last thing this forum needs is another Thomas Delaur zealot so take the chit to the misc.
    But guys he has a good body and he's on YouTube. He wouldn't lie! It's not like he makes a living by...

    oh...

    nevermind.
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    Hahahhaha! Good thread.

    I don't even know who Thomas Deflower is. Will check out his theories.

    Two a days? Forget IF and conforming to that. Eat plenty and nail PRs. Simple. Go by what your body is telling you AND showing you.

    People tend to overcomplicate things. This is not trying to determine the number of cytotoxic payload classes with different modes of action which have been successfully employed in Antibody Drug Conjugates (ADC). This is freaking lifting weights. Lift, eat, rest, repeat. That's it. The key is consistency.
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    GH in the absence of energy intake is not to grow muscles, it's to mobilise energy from fat cells.

    You don't grow muscles because you are 'fasting'
    doesn't it out your body into starvation mode and you start storing things as fat when you eat because your body is trying to conserve the energy /nutrition it’s getting in case it doesn’t get it again? And steady insulin levels are more ideal
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    But guys he has a good body and he's on YouTube. He wouldn't lie! It's not like he makes a living by...

    oh...

    nevermind.
    can't rep you again but LOL
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  16. #16
    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by faithbrah View Post
    can't rep you again but LOL
    =o)
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    pay the iron price SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by snailsrus View Post
    doesn't it out your body into starvation mode and you start storing things as fat when you eat because your body is trying to conserve the energy /nutrition it’s getting in case it doesn’t get it again? And steady insulin levels are more ideal
    There is no such thing as starvation mode... not that has ever been documented and identified.

    If your body releases the right amount of insulin to deal with whatever carb you consume, why does it matter whether it's steady or not?

    https://weightology.net/insulin-an-u...ad-reputation/
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    Originally Posted by snailsrus View Post
    doesn't it out your body into starvation mode and you start storing things as fat when you eat because your body is trying to conserve the energy /nutrition it’s getting in case it doesn’t get it again? And steady insulin levels are more ideal
    BAHAHAHAH no, that's 100% wrong and this myth needs to die. Your body is designed for fasting in short periods.
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    Originally Posted by dreamache View Post
    I'm starting to break up my workout routine into 2 sessions, morning around 10-11am and night around 6:30/7pm.

    Usually I save the bigger muscle group for the morning, and a smaller muscle group for the evening.

    I want to start doing IF, perhaps with the 16:8 split. I'm just curious if I should switch the lesser intense workout to the morning when I'm fasting still? (planning on going till 4-12pm for the eating window)

    And also, just for clarification, there's absolutely no issue with working out and not having post-workout protein/carbs, which would be the case for my morning workout?

    I did IF for about 6-7 months, working out 4x a week (heavy lifting). I mostly did OMAD (one meal a day). As Another said, why do you want to do IF? You can AMA me on the subject.

    I lost 60 pounds in 4 months. 25 the first month, pairing keto with IF and doing OMAD. The first month I did ZERO training. The next 4 I trained in the gym. I still had strength gains while only eating about 1000 calories a day. I cut my calories hard to lose the weight faster. I'm not sure if my strength gains were bias though, since years ago (13+) I used to live in the gym in High School (wish I had my knowledge of muscle building now as I did then).

    Starting in roughly July, I tried to IF and "gain muscle" due to Thomas D and others saying the increase in HGH/testosterone (I didn't learn until later the minimal amounts it increases). I was eating in a caloric surplus and still doing about 20/4 IF schedule. I was also (still am) taking HMB and other supps to maximize MPS.

    Let's just say in the last 1.5 months of going off IF (I even started to do alternating day fasts) my gains in the gym are much better. I now eat meals all day, (I'm about to make a post in this thread, too) and workout not-fasted.

    Fasted cardio is the best for fat loss, and I'll do IF in the future again for life. It's great to stay lean and preserve muscle (short fasts), great for body maintenance to do a couple 2-3 day fasts a year, but for muscle growth it's ****.
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    Fasted cardio is the best for fat loss, and I'll do IF in the future again for life. It's great to stay lean and preserve muscle (short fasts), great for body maintenance to do a couple 2-3 day fasts a year, but for muscle growth it's ****.
    I can ensure you fasted cardio is no more effective for fat loss then non-fasted cardio your body will balance out its energy source be that from food sources (glycogen) or your fat stores over a prolonged period. As long as calories are matched.

    Likewise fasts do nothing special to keep you lean beyond there ability to maintain you in a caloric maintenence. The health benefits are very much overstated and not fully proven especially in humans.
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    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hardyboysare View Post
    I can ensure you fasted cardio is no more effective for fat loss then non-fasted cardio your body will balance out its energy source be that from food sources (glycogen) or your fat stores over a prolonged period. As long as calories are matched.

    Likewise fasts do nothing special to keep you lean beyond there ability to maintain you in a caloric maintenence. The health benefits are very much overstated and not fully proven especially in humans.
    Fasted cardio may actually be less optimal in many cases because intensity can suffer in a fasted state.
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    Originally Posted by hardyboysare View Post
    I can ensure you fasted cardio is no more effective for fat loss then non-fasted cardio your body will balance out its energy source be that from food sources (glycogen) or your fat stores over a prolonged period. As long as calories are matched.

    Likewise fasts do nothing special to keep you lean beyond there ability to maintain you in a caloric maintenence. The health benefits are very much overstated and not fully proven especially in humans.
    You mean, assure* me?

    Plenty of benefits are proven from it, and a Japanese cell biologist won the NPP from autophagy.

    Sorry, but you're wrong here. Fasted cardio will help you burn more fat. Hell, here's an article from this site (and you can look up the research yourself): Well I can't post a link, but you're wrong. Fasted cardio in the AM is proven to help fat loss more.
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    Registered User hardyboysare's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PatsBowhunter34 View Post
    You mean, assure* me?

    Plenty of benefits are proven from it, and a Japanese cell biologist won the NPP from autophagy.

    Sorry, but you're wrong here. Fasted cardio will help you burn more fat. Hell, here's an article from this site (and you can look up the research yourself): Well I can't post a link, but you're wrong. Fasted cardio in the AM is proven to help fat loss more.
    Enjoy reading and come back afterwards and explain why my claim is wrong:-

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4242477/ - No difference found

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21411835 - Actually higher in fed participants due to higher performance ability as Adam suggested

    https://www.mdpi.com/2411-5142/2/4/43/htm - Trivial to no effect on body composition

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25554797 - Same fat loss occurred throughout the day when compared fasted vs fed.

    https://muscleevo.net/fasted-cardio/ - Pretty good summary about it.

    I would advise you read some scientific research and focus on the detail instead of just taking every bodybuilding claim on the internet as truth. As the scientific community doesn't back fasted training as a tool for extra fat loss, as long as calories are matched throughout the day the same fat loss will occur.

    Total daily calories dictate fat loss not the state of fastness in the individual in question.
    Last edited by hardyboysare; 09-13-2019 at 09:22 AM.
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    Originally Posted by PatsBowhunter34 View Post
    You mean, assure* me?

    Plenty of benefits are proven from it, and a Japanese cell biologist won the NPP from autophagy.

    Sorry, but you're wrong here. Fasted cardio will help you burn more fat. Hell, here's an article from this site (and you can look up the research yourself): Well I can't post a link, but you're wrong. Fasted cardio in the AM is proven to help fat loss more.
    Quick hint: do more reading. Start with the links supplied by Hardyboysare. Also check the links in my signature for good quality science based info.
    Recommended science based fitness & nutrition information:
    Alan Aragon https://alanaragon.com/
    Brad Schoenfeld http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/
    James Krieger https://weightology.net/
    Jorn Trommelen http://www.nutritiontactics.com/
    Eric Helms & Team3DMJ https://3dmusclejourney.com/
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    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Quick hint: do more reading. Start with the links supplied by Hardyboysare. Also check the links in my signature for good quality science based info.
    I would also note that the NPP he mentioned on autophagy has zero to do with any 'benefits' from short-term fasting for the purpose of losing bodyfat or athletic performance

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5240711/
    "To be sure, there are many questions yet to be answered about the basic mechanisms of autophagy (and other autophagy gene-dependent processes), its roles in disease, and its potential as a pathway for drug targeting."
    Strength is never a weakness, weakness is never a strength.
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    More on autophagy:

    The dark side of autophagy
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25257169

    Autophagy and Its Effects: Making Sense of Double-Edged Swords
    https://journals.plos.org/plosbiolog...l.pbio.1001967
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