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  1. #1
    Registered User macfc96's Avatar
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    Question Progressive overload and tension overload?

    I have some questions about progressive overload and progressive tension overload.

    So im trying to get my head around this, when you have milked your linear progression gains where you just add weight each week, what is basically the best way to progress after this for interdemiate and advanced lifters that lifts for hypertrophy?

    Should you try to add weight or reps every week? How do you progress when this is no longer possible?

    Is it enough for a interdemiate lifter to just set up an program with the right combination of volume and intensity, then wait for the adaption to occur and then add weight/reps? whatever how long it takes based on how advanced the lifter is. Does it have to be so advanced with all this different periodization methods, % programs etc?

    I used to think that you had to add weight or reps to overload your muscle, but i learnt that an session is overloading if hitting the right volume and intensity, 10+ set per muscle group and 1-3 rir.

    But how do you know when an session is no longer overloading anymore? what is the best progression set up for interdemiate and advanced lifters just training for hypertrophy?
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  2. #2
    Registered User rdf1988's Avatar
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    I don't think there's a point where more volume no longer means more overload, but there are diminishing returns on investment as the sets accumulate. There isn't a specific point where additional sets automatically become useless, but the more sets you've done, the less you stand to gain from the next set. So, rather than thinking of it as though overload stops after a certain point, it's more a matter of the future progress enabled by further overload becomes minimal.

    Anyway, there are more complex methods of progressive overload available to intermediate and advanced lifters. The simplest methods are no different from what you're likely to use as a beginner, but just taking longer before you add weight or reps.

    Hypothetically, as a beginner you might have done a fullbody workout with the same exercises each day: Monday 3x10, Wednesday 3x11, Friday 3x12, then increase weight by the smallest available margin and return to 3x10 the following Monday, repeating ad nauseum.

    As an intermediate, you might move onto an upper/lower split with two distinct upper body and two distinct lower body workouts, training 4x/wk total. Week 1 is 3x10, week 2 is 3x11, week 3 is 3x12, week 4 is 3x10 with the smallest possible increase in weight. A similar progression scheme is found in All Pro's Simple Beginner's Routine, so it isn't as though you have to be an intermediate to benefit from progressing at this rate.

    Alternatively, you might do something like the following:
    - Week 1: 3x15
    - Week 2: 3x15
    - Week 3: 3x15
    - Week 4: 3x12
    - Week 5: 3x12
    - Week 6: 3x12
    - Week 7: 3x10
    - Week 8: 3x10
    - Week 9: 3x10
    - Week 10: 3x8
    - Week 11: 3x8
    - Week 12: 3x8
    - Week 13: 3x6
    - Week 14: 3x6
    - Week 15: 3x6
    Then deload and, if you like that style, restart from week 1 with heavier weights or new exercise variations, etc. The goal would be to add weight as often as possible, while otherwise staying within your targeted training parameters, by dropping the reps every few weeks, you might even be able to maintain weight progression most (if not all) weeks on the big compound movements. But, at a minimum, you'd be aiming to add weight every time the reps drop, even if you maintain the weight your lifting within a given rep range.
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    Registered User rdf1988's Avatar
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    You can also take the 15 week plan I laid out above and make it a more short-term plan:

    - Week 1: 3x15
    - Week 2: 3x12
    - Week 3: 3x10
    - Week 4: 3x8
    - Week 5: 3x6
    Then start over at Week 1 with heavier weights, aiming to hit heavier weights for the same reps all the way through.
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    Registered User macfc96's Avatar
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    So if my goal is to get as swole i can, how important are periodization etc?

    For an intermediate and advanced lifter, would something like just simple double progression be enough? And deload when feeling overreached?

    Just focusing on the right rir, enough heavy sets and progressive overload when possible? And make sure over time you get stronger on the higher rep ranges.

    Is this enough? Does it have to be more complicated then this? There is so many program that uses %, DUP training.. linear periodization, im starting to get a little confused about whats important for hypertrophy and how advanced programming really need to be.
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    Registered User macfc96's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by macfc96 View Post
    So if my goal is to get as swole i can, how important are periodization etc?

    For an intermediate and advanced lifter, would something like just simple double progression be enough? And deload when feeling overreached?

    Just focusing on the right rir, enough heavy sets and progressive overload when possible? And make sure over time you get stronger on the higher rep ranges.

    Is this enough? Does it have to be more complicated then this? There is so many program that uses %, DUP training.. linear periodization, im starting to get a little confused about whats important for hypertrophy and how advanced programming really need to be.
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    Registered User FaIIen's Avatar
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    It's a complicated topic. Double progression will work until it doesn't. At that point you introduce variation in the form of different exercises or rep ranges.
    Log: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175660541
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    Registered User macfc96's Avatar
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    How complicated does it has too be for someone just trying to get as big as then can while being natural?

    Whats the best progression scheme? How do you dictate how fast to progress etc? How often to apply progressive overload?

    How do you progress when for hypertrophy when linear progression and week to week progression is done?
    Last edited by macfc96; 09-10-2019 at 05:02 PM.
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    Registered User macfc96's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by macfc96 View Post
    How complicated does it has too be for someone just trying to get as big as then can while being natural?

    Whats the best progression scheme? How do you dictate how fast to progress etc? How often to apply progressive overload
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    Originally Posted by macfc96 View Post
    How complicated does it has too be for someone just trying to get as big as then can while being natural?

    Whats the best progression scheme? How do you dictate how fast to progress etc? How often to apply progressive overload?

    How do you progress when for hypertrophy when linear progression and week to week progression is done?
    Imo the best for all of these is an autoregulated approach, with a mindset of always trying to do a little bit better.

    YouTube "reactive training systems, Emerging strategies" for discussion on the details of how to autoregulate
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    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    Lyle McDonald has become something of a controversial figure (more so) but here goes:

    A mistake some make is in thinking that progression must occur every workout or every week. That you have to overload the body more and more in this linear fashion to get adaptation. And that just isn’t the case.

    Other sports certainly don’t do this or event attempt to. An endurance athlete might be waiting 4-6 weeks or more to get any adaptation that allows or necessitates a change in training volume or intensity. The same is true for other athletes. As adaptation rates slow down, the same training load remains a sufficient training load for longer and longer durations.
    https://bodyrecomposition.com/traini...n-part-3.html/
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  11. #11
    Registered User macfc96's Avatar
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    So basically a work load can produce muscle growth for some time without progression, so how fast you should add weight for hypertrophy is more about how long the adaptions take and that is what dictates how fast progression should be?

    Like beginner session to session, early intermediate week to week, and more advanced trainers month to month (mesocycle)

    But the concept off adding some progression is the same whatever if you are a beginner or more advanced, its just takes a few more weeks of training before progressive overload can be applied

    Is this right?
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    What a mesocycle is is dependent on the program.

    What you are aiming for is to provide overload to your muscles in a particular workout. Progressive overload is simply the concept that the overload increases over time.
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  13. #13
    Registered User FaIIen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by macfc96 View Post
    How complicated does it has too be for someone just trying to get as big as then can while being natural?
    Depends on how advanced you are. It honestly doesn't have to be very complicated at all.

    Originally Posted by macfc96 View Post
    Whats the best progression scheme? How do you dictate how fast to progress etc? How often to apply progressive overload?
    There is no one best progression scheme. Progression rate will depend on a multitude of variables like training age (level of advancement), nutrition and genetics.

    How often to progress? Whenever you can tbh.

    Originally Posted by macfc96 View Post
    How do you progress when for hypertrophy when linear progression and week to week progression is done?
    Then you just increase the time period and look to make constant gradual progression over time.
    Log: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=175660541
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