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  1. #871
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    I agree, Messi looks better over the 60 games in the season so will come ahead in this stat.

    What sets CR7 apart is performing in the biggest games, ie hes like Tom Brady compared to Peyton Manning, or MJ compared to LeBron. Maybe less overall efficiency stats in regular season or league games, but comes up bigger in big moments.
    Maybe, lets look at the stats.

    We'll focus on UCL Finals alone because those are widely considered to be the biggest game in club competition and Messi has a much greater contribution in finals than Ronaldo, if you includes copa del ray, club world cup, spanish supercup etc

    I'll list it as Messi and ronaldo rating alone if they are MOTM, if they are not, ill list the match rating in order of high to low for their team in that game.


    Messi participated in 3 UCL Finals

    2009 UCL final

    Messi - MOTM - Whoscored rating - 10/10

    2011 UCL final

    Messi - MOTM - whoscored rating - 10/10

    2015 UCL final

    Messi - MOTM - whoscored rating - 8.2/10

    Summary:

    Messi average UCL final rating - 9.4/10

    MOTM 3/3

    Ronaldo participated in 5 UCL final

    UCL Final 2008 - pre-whoscored analysis

    MOTM - Edwin Van Der Sar
    Ronaldo had a very good game... No rating so we'll assume ronaldo was a solid 8.5-9/10.

    UCL final 2014

    MOTM - Sergio ramos - whoscored rating 9.5/10
    Modric - 8.7/10
    Ronaldo 8.5/10

    UCL final 2016

    MOTM Bale - whoscored rating 9.1/10
    Casemiro 8.6/10
    Ramos 8.5/10
    Ronaldo 7.8/10

    UCL Final 2017

    MOTM Casemiro - whoscored rating 8.7/10
    Ronaldo 8.4/10

    UCL Final 2018

    MOTM Bale - whoscored rating - 8.6/10
    Benzema 7.9/10
    Marcelo 7.6/10
    Modric 7.5/10
    Ramos 7.1/10
    Carvajal 7.1/10
    Casemiro 6.9/10
    Varane 6.9/10
    Isco 6.9/10
    Nacho 6.8/10
    Navas 6.7/10
    Ronaldo 6.6/10

    Ronaldo was not one of the top 11

    Summary:

    Ronaldo average UCL final rating (with 2008 9/10 assumption) - 8/10

    Ronaldo average UCL final rating (4 madrid UCL final alone) - 7.8/10

    MOTM 0/5

    Summary:

    MOTM in UCL Final:

    Messi 3/3 Ronaldo 0/5

    Average rating in UCL Final

    Messi 9.4/10 Ronaldo 8.0/10

    I'm going to quote you again here:

    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    What sets CR7 apart is performing in the biggest games


    Is the UCL Final not the biggest game in club football?

    If you want I can show you an international Final analysis.. Maybe Ronaldo is better in that scenario?
    Last edited by AJR123456; 08-05-2020 at 02:55 PM.
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  2. #872
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    "RoNaLdO iS Da bEsT pLaYeR on JuVe aNd iN sErIa A"



    Best Goalkeeper: Wojciech Szczesny
    Best Defender: Stefan De Vrij
    Best Midfielder: Papu Gomez
    Best Forward: Ciro Immobile
    Best Young player: Dejan Kulusevski
    MVP: Paulo Dybala




    https://www.juvefc.com/paulo-dybala-voted-serie-a-mvp/


    but but but but....... Roandlo CARRIES juve Look at his goals and penalty kicks!
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  3. #873
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    UCL Finals are second biggest game, after the World Cup Final. The sample size is too small, or anyone though to use those alone.

    Quarter Finals onwards in Champions League games, and Knockout Stages onwards in International Tournaments is really the range to rank the greatest players. With the caveat ofc, that International last 16 and QF ties can often be against poor opposition in the Copa America, or even in finals in the case of Argentina V Chile twice.
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  4. #874
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    But ultimately ofc its what they actually win, and how they win it.

    Michael Jordan lead his team to threepeat two times, and had huge performances to take over games in each of those wins. LeBron has better overall stats, may be a more complete player, and also has some Championships but only in great teams.

    You'd be an absolute moron to pick LeBron over MJ to win you a ring, and you'd be just as daft to pick Messi over CR7 to win a Champions League trophy. To me that fact means theres no dispute, CR7 is the greater, and better player.
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  5. #875
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    I really enjoy watching Messi too, hes one of my favourite players for sure. And theres nothing wrong with you guys having a personal preference for him, just like some people might prefer watching Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers over Tom Brady.

    But to claim Messi>CR7 or Peyton>Brady, thats just being plain silly. I'm just going to remind you guys;

    Messi has 4 CL trophies, but played in 3 (one was when he was 17 and was injured throughout the knockouts, Xavi, Iniesta and co won it for him). Of those 3 he has been involved in, if you remove all Messi's goals they still win 2 of those, and other players actually stood out more in those runs. A return of only 3 wins, in roughly 15 years playing with the most stacked team in Europe for most if not all of that is frankly, poor.

    Ronaldo has won 5 CL Trophies and reached 6 finals (to Messi's 3). CR7's goal contributions have been vital to all 5 of those wins, including several hattricks in comeback wins. All of this with good and great teams, but not all time great like Barca's Xavi, Iniesta generation.
    Last edited by LukeS1; 08-06-2020 at 01:15 AM.
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  6. #876
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    As much as I like to watch Messi, and enjoy his style. His career has been a massive underachievement, in terms of success on the big stage. Both with Barcalona, but also to lose 4 finals with Argentina, without his side registering a single goal in 450 minutes of football.

    As a whole, Messi is a bigger choker than Spurs with Covid-19.
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    Man can we stop the Messi Ronaldo argument now? It just keeps going back and forth lets just enjoy that in our lifetime for most of us we were able to watch original Ronaldo the Brazil team in 2002....Zidane, Henry, Cannavaro, Maldini, Buffon, Casillas, Spain team 2008-2012. Messi and Ronaldo, and now Mbappe.

    Anyways, looks like Obamafone signed a new contract with Arsenal sign dat ting Auba.

    Willian coming too can't complain we need depth at wing. Heard it's 100k a week too not bad.
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  8. #878
    Registered User AJR123456's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    I really enjoy watching Messi too, hes one of my favourite players for sure. And theres nothing wrong with you guys having a personal preference for him, just like some people might prefer watching Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers over Tom Brady.

    But to claim Messi>CR7 or Peyton>Brady, thats just being plain silly. I'm just going to remind you guys;

    Messi has 4 CL trophies, but played in 3 (one was when he was 17 and was injured throughout the knockouts, Xavi, Iniesta and co won it for him). Of those 3 he has been involved in, if you remove all Messi's goals they still win 2 of those, and other players actually stood out more in those runs. A return of only 3 wins, in roughly 15 years playing with the most stacked team in Europe for most if not all of that is frankly, poor.

    Ronaldo has won 5 CL Trophies and reached 6 finals (to Messi's 3). CR7's goal contributions have been vital to all 5 of those wins, including several hattricks in comeback wins. All of this with good and great teams, but not all time great like Barca's Xavi, Iniesta generation.
    Although I agree that who you that preference is a matter of opinion, statistically speaking your statements are incorrect.


    We've already established that Messi is the better performer on the biggest club stage.. The UCL final.. Messi has been MOTM on all 3 occasions while Ronaldo has been underwhelming in UCL finals. In fact Ronaldo has never been MOTM in a major final. UCL or International.

    But lets focus on your point. Slightly less important games than the final, the UCL knockout stages.

    We'll examine Real Madrid's 4 UCL wins starting with 2013/2014

    2013/2014

    Round of 16 - Benzema was the standout in the first leg, Ronaldo in the second.

    Summary - the team breezed through this round with Benzema, Ronaldo and Bale standing out

    UCL 2013/2014 1/4 finals

    Ronaldo was not one of the top performers in the first leg, and he did not play the second leg

    UCL 2013/2014 semi finals

    First leg ronaldo was the worst player on the field

    Second leg pepe was MOTM followed by an outstanding performance by Sergio Ramos

    UCL 2013/2014 Final

    Sergio Ramos was the MOTM


    2013/2014 UCL conclusion

    Ronaldo did not carry Real Madrid to a championship, they carried him. Sergio Ramos had the biggest impact in the final. Overall Ronaldo had a good tournament, but by no means did he carry them as his performances were just average beyond the round of 16.



    UCL 2015/2016 Round of 16

    First leg Ronaldo was MOTM however he and the whole team played poorly and squeeked by, Ronaldo had 1 of the 2 goals.

    Second leg Rodriguez was the MOTM

    UCL 2015/2016 1/4 finals

    First leg Ronaldo was the lowest rated player on the field with a 6.2/10

    Second leg Ronaldo was MOTM he shared a 9.2 rating with Ramos - his rating could have been higher if all 3 of his goals not been tap ins. Outside the goals, little involvement

    UCL 2015/2016 semi finals

    First leg Ronaldo did not play

    Second Leg Ronaldo had the worst performance on the field. Bale was MOTM

    UCL 2015/2016 Final

    Bale was MOTM again, Ronaldo was not one of the top 3 performers.

    Conclusion: Ronaldo did not carry Real Madrid to a trophy, they carried him. Bale was the top performer in the semi finals and finals.


    UCL 2016/2017 round of 16

    First leg Ronaldo was not MOTM, no goals or assists

    Second leg Ronaldo was not MOTM, was not one of the top 5 performers.

    UCL 2016/2017 1/4 finals

    First leg Ronaldo was MOTM with 8.7/10 - very good game

    Second leg Ronaldo was not MOTM as 2 of the 3 goals he scored were more than 3 feet offside. Whoscored factored this in despite the fact that the referee ignored his linesmen twice to let the goals stand.. Marcelo was MOTM with a 10/10 rating. The referee for this match has not officiated in the UCL or any major leagues since this event.

    UCL 2016/2017 semi finals

    First leg Ronaldo was undoubtedly MOTM, this may have been his best ever UCL performance, a solid 10/10.

    Second leg one of Ronaldo's worst performances, he was the worst player on the field with a 6.5/10 rating.


    2016/2017 UCL Final

    Casemiro was MOTM Ronaldo also performed well with an 8.4/10 rating.


    Conclusion: played a pivotal role in the first leg of the 1/4 final and the first leg of the semi final. He also played well in the final.

    By no means did Ronaldo "Carry" Madrid, but overall he was their most influential player in this Campaign. I think it's fair to say that Real Madrid might not have won this UCL without Ronaldo.


    2017/2018 UCL round of 16

    First leg Ronaldo and real madrid overall were both poor, however Ronaldo scored 2 penalties to win the match and was awarded MOTM

    Second leg Casemiro was MOTM with a 9.4/10, Ronaldo was without a doubt the second best performer with an 8.8/10.. The rest of Madrid were pretty poor.

    2017/2018 UCL 1/4 Final

    First leg Fantastic performance by Ronaldo, MOTM, 9.9/10, Ronaldo was BY FAR the best player on Madrid in this game.

    Second leg Ronaldo had a terrible game and was not MOTM. However he got Madrid through with a penalty that he earned by diving. Replays showed that there was no contact. But without Ronaldo's dive, Real Madrid would not have continued.. Judge this how you will

    2017/2018 UCL Semi Finals

    First leg Ronaldo was the worst player on the field with a 6.6/10

    Second leg Ronaldo was again one of the worst players on the field with a 7/10

    2017/2018 UCL Final

    By far Ronaldo's worst final performance ever. He was 12th on Madrid, the worst of the starters. Bale was MOTM

    Conclusion: Overall Ronaldo did well in the round of 16, scoring 2 penalties in the first leg, and making good contributions in the 2nd leg. Ronaldo also had a STELLAR performance in the first leg of the 1/4 final. He also made a crucial DIVE to keep Madrid in the tournament in the second leg.

    Unfortunately Ronaldo was the worst player on the field 3 games in a row through the semi finals and Finals.

    I don't think it's fair to say Ronaldo Carried Real Madrid, or that he was single handedly responsible for their win.. However Ronaldo was single handedly responsible for taking them through the 1/4 finals. and played a big role in the round of 16.

    All evidence points to Real Madrid winning this as a team with no real standout in this tournament.




    OVERALL in Madrid's 4 UCL win's with Ronaldo, Ronaldo was truly the guy who made it happen in 2017. In the other 3 wins Ronaldo had no impact whatsoever in the semi finals and very little impact in the 1/4 finals.

    Yes he has made big goal contributions at the right moments in the round of 16, occasionally in the 1/4 finals. But he has had very little impact beyond that point on whether or not Madrid win.
    Last edited by AJR123456; 08-06-2020 at 12:17 PM.
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  9. #879
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    Originally Posted by AJR123456 View Post
    Although I agree that who you that preference is a matter of opinion, statistically speaking your statements are incorrect.


    We've already established that Messi is the better performer on the biggest club stage.. The UCL final.. Messi has been MOTM on all 3 occasions while Ronaldo has been underwhelming in UCL finals. In fact Ronaldo has never been MOTM in a major final. UCL or International.

    But lets focus on your point. Slightly less important games than the final, the UCL knockout stages.

    We'll examine Real Madrid's 4 UCL wins starting with 2013/2014

    2013/2014

    Round of 16 - Benzema was the standout in the first leg, Ronaldo in the second.

    Summary - the team breezed through this round with Benzema, Ronaldo and Bale standing out

    UCL 2013/2014 1/4 finals

    Ronaldo was not one of the top performers in the first leg, and he did not play the second leg

    UCL 2013/2014 semi finals

    First leg ronaldo was the worst player on the field

    Second leg pepe was MOTM followed by an outstanding performance by Sergio Ramos

    UCL 2013/2014 Final

    Sergio Ramos was the MOTM


    2013/2014 UCL conclusion

    Ronaldo did not carry Real Madrid to a championship, they carried him. Sergio Ramos had the biggest impact in the final. Overall Ronaldo had a good tournament, but by no means did he carry them as his performances were just average beyond the round of 16.



    UCL 2015/2016 Round of 16

    First leg Ronaldo was MOTM however he and the whole team played poorly and squeeked by, Ronaldo had 1 of the 2 goals.

    Second leg Rodriguez was the MOTM

    UCL 2015/2016 1/4 finals

    First leg Ronaldo was the lowest rated player on the field with a 6.2/10

    Second leg Ronaldo was MOTM he shared a 9.2 rating with Ramos - his rating could have been higher if all 3 of his goals not been tap ins. Outside the goals, little involvement

    UCL 2015/2016 semi finals

    First leg Ronaldo did not play

    Second Leg Ronaldo had the worst performance on the field. Bale was MOTM

    UCL 2015/2016 Final

    Bale was MOTM again, Ronaldo was not one of the top 3 performers.

    Conclusion: Ronaldo did not carry Real Madrid to a trophy, they carried him. Bale was the top performer in the semi finals and finals.


    UCL 2016/2017 round of 16

    First leg Ronaldo was not MOTM, no goals or assists

    Second leg Ronaldo was not MOTM, was not one of the top 5 performers.

    UCL 2016/2017 1/4 finals

    First leg Ronaldo was MOTM with 8.7/10 - very good game

    Second leg Ronaldo was not MOTM as 2 of the 3 goals he scored were more than 3 feet offside. Whoscored factored this in despite the fact that the referee ignored his linesmen twice to let the goals stand.. Marcelo was MOTM with a 10/10 rating. The referee for this match has not officiated in the UCL or any major leagues since this event.

    UCL 2016/2017 semi finals

    First leg Ronaldo was undoubtedly MOTM, this may have been his best ever UCL performance, a solid 10/10.

    Second leg one of Ronaldo's worst performances, he was the worst player on the field with a 6.5/10 rating.


    2016/2017 UCL Final

    Casemiro was MOTM Ronaldo also performed well with an 8.4/10 rating.


    Conclusion: played a pivotal role in the first leg of the 1/4 final and the first leg of the semi final. He also played well in the final.

    By no means did Ronaldo "Carry" Madrid, but overall he was their most influential player in this Campaign. I think it's fair to say that Real Madrid might not have won this UCL without Ronaldo.


    2017/2018 UCL round of 16

    First leg Ronaldo and real madrid overall were both poor, however Ronaldo scored 2 penalties to win the match and was awarded MOTM

    Second leg Casemiro was MOTM with a 9.4/10, Ronaldo was without a doubt the second best performer with an 8.8/10.. The rest of Madrid were pretty poor.

    2017/2018 UCL 1/4 Final

    First leg Fantastic performance by Ronaldo, MOTM, 9.9/10, Ronaldo was BY FAR the best player on Madrid in this game.

    Second leg Ronaldo had a terrible game and was not MOTM. However he got Madrid through with a penalty that he earned by diving. Replays showed that there was no contact. But without Ronaldo's dive, Real Madrid would not have continued.. Judge this how you will

    2017/2018 UCL Semi Finals

    First leg Ronaldo was the worst player on the field with a 6.6/10

    Second leg Ronaldo was again one of the worst players on the field with a 7/10

    2017/2018 UCL Final

    By far Ronaldo's worst final performance ever. He was 12th on Madrid, the worst of the starters. Bale was MOTM

    Conclusion: Overall Ronaldo did well in the round of 16, scoring 2 penalties in the first leg, and making good contributions in the 2nd leg. Ronaldo also had a STELLAR performance in the first leg of the 1/4 final. He also made a crucial DIVE to keep Madrid in the tournament in the second leg.

    Unfortunately Ronaldo was the worst player on the field 3 games in a row through the semi finals and Finals.

    I don't think it's fair to say Ronaldo Carried Real Madrid, or that he was single handedly responsible for their win.. However Ronaldo was single handedly responsible for taking them through the 1/4 finals. and played a big role in the round of 16.

    All evidence points to Real Madrid winning this as a team with no real standout in this tournament.




    OVERALL in Madrid's 4 UCL win's with Ronaldo, Ronaldo was truly the guy who made it happen in 2017. In the other 3 wins Ronaldo had no impact whatsoever in the semi finals and very little impact in the 1/4 finals.

    Yes he has made big goal contributions at the right moments in the round of 16, occasionally in the 1/4 finals. But he has had very little impact beyond that point on whether or not Madrid win.
    This and this LukeS1 idiot somehow compares Ronaldo to Jordan and Lebron to Messi when in reality MJ and Messi both have superior statistics then Roandlo and LBJ.

    Lebron has half the titles has MJ

    While Messi has just 1 less UCL trophy and MORE LEAGUE and CUP titles than Ronadlo.

    MJ and Messi have more individual records and awards than Lebron or Roandlo.


    MJ = Messi

    Lebron = Ronaldo.
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    As much as I like to watch Messi, and enjoy his style. His career has been a massive underachievement, in terms of success on the big stage. Both with Barcalona, but also to lose 4 finals with Argentina, without his side registering a single goal in 450 minutes of football.

    As a whole, Messi is a bigger choker than Spurs with Covid-19.
    If you want to compare the knockout rounds of Ronaldo's 4 UCL winning campaigns with Real Madrid to Messi's 3 UCL winning campaigns with Barcelona.

    Overall Ronaldo is the best on Real Madrid in terms of average rating and MOTM with 8.1/10 and 9 MOTM over 22 games in 4 successful campaigns.

    Overall Messi is the best on Barcelona in terms of average rating and MOTM with 8.9/10 and 12 MOTM out of 18 Games.

    If you factor in the finals

    Messi has produced 15 MOTM out of 21 matches in Barcelona's successful UCL campaigns and an average rating of 9/10.

    Ronaldo has produced 9 MOTM out of 26 matches with an average rating of 8/10.

    In addition Messi is the only player in the history of the UCL to win 7 consecutive MOTM in the knockout stages of the tournament to bring his team to victory.

    Ronaldo is the Best player in UCL history to be rated as the worst player on his team 3 times in a row from semi final to championship.


    As good as Messi is, it's hard for me to say that he carried Barcelona to a UCL trophy because the 2009 & 2011 teams were the best in the history of the sport, and the 2015 had other substantial contributers like suarez and Neymar. Just like I can't say that Ronaldo carried his team..

    It's a team sport. What I can say is that Ronaldo is remarkably inconsistent in the knockout rounds. One game he's one of the greatest players in history, the next he's the most useless player on the team. It's really a mental game with him, he puts enormous pressure on himself.

    On the other hand Messi has only ranked below 8/10 twice out of 21 games in the knockout rounds of UCL winning campaigns. He's remarkably consistent and splits his contribution between play making and goal scoring where as Ronaldo has become a deadly and clinical goal poacher. The best box player in the history of the sport. But inconsistent as he is unable to play deep or alter his game if he is not receiving service.

    Messi is the best on his team in knockout rounds of winning competitions 71% of the time and has never dropped below 3rd. Whereas Ronaldo is the best on his team in the knockout rounds of winning competitions 35% of the time and drops to the bottom or near the bottom of his team 20% of the time.

    Ronaldo relies alot more on his team than Messi does as his role is different. A prime example of this is despite the fact that ronaldo has more knockout round goals than messi, Messi has twice as many solo knockout round goals as Ronaldo.

    Anyways the game stats are below

    2008/2009 UCL round of 16

    First Leg

    Messi MOTM

    Second leg

    Thierry Henry MOTM with Messi as a close second


    2008/2009 UCL 1/4 final

    First leg

    Messi MOTM and by far the best player

    Second leg

    Messi MOTM

    2008/2009 UCL semi final

    First leg

    Xavi MOTM with messi as a close second

    Second leg

    Iniesta MOTM, Messi was not the man, but had a solid 8/10 performan



    2010/2011 UCL round of 16

    First leg

    MOTM Messi, overall barcelona were poor and messi was below average but still the best on the field.

    Second leg

    Messi MOTM 9.8/10 by far the best player on barcelona who had a pretty poor performance.


    2010/2011 UCL 1/4 final

    First leg

    Messi MOTM and by far the best player on the field 9.7/10

    Second leg

    Messi MOTM 9.2/10, Barcelona had a poor performance, Messi was by far the best on the field

    2010/2011 UCL semi final

    First leg

    Ronaldo and Messi went head to head in this game. Messi was MOTM with a stellar 10/10, by far the best player on the field. Barcelona were below par overall with their second best player scoring a 7.4/10

    Second Leg

    Messi MOTM 8.5/10 with the next best on Barcelona scoring a 7.4/10


    Summary: Messi was absolutely essential to Barcelona reaching the final and winning it. The only player in the history of the UCL to win 7 consecutive MOTM awards through every game of the knockout rounds including the final.



    2014/2015 UCL round of 16

    First leg

    MOTM Messi with an 8.9/10

    Second leg

    MOTM Messi with a stellar performance absolutely bossing the game with a 10/10, overall barcelona were poor with Neymar putting in a solid performance as well 8/10

    2014/2015 UCL 1/4 final

    First leg

    Suarez MOTM with an absolutely stellar performance. 9.4/10. Messi was second best providing assists with an 8.5/10

    Second leg

    Neymar was the star of this game. MOTM, 9.6/10. Messi was second best with a below average game by his standards. 7.9/10

    2014/2015 UCL semi final

    First leg

    Messi MOTM, comically good in this game. 10/10 performance and an involvement in absolutely everything.

    Second leg

    Messi's worst performance of the tournament so far, ranking 3rd on barcelona with a 7.2/10. Neymar was the best on Barcelona with an 8.3/10


    Messi average knockout performance = 8.9/10

    Messi 12 MOTM in 18 games.
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    cot damn walls of text



    +++ miscin' at work crew +++
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    I'm not reading that, any of it

    You try to argue Messi has better overall stats in La Liga games etc, cool different opinions we can disagree

    You try to tell me Messi is more clutch? You're trolling, straight up
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    Frezko likes to consider Barcalona's 2007 win was attributed to Messi, despite him not playing a second of the Quarter Finals, Semi Finals or Final.

    At the same time him losing 4 finals with Argentina, while they scored ZERO goals in 450 minutes was not his fault, because he only had Aguero, Tevez , Di Maria and Higuain as teammates.


    You literally could not set the bar lower LMAO
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    I'm not reading that, any of it

    You try to argue Messi has better overall stats in La Liga games etc, cool different opinions we can disagree

    You try to tell me Messi is more clutch? You're trolling, straight up
    Bruh... you answered his previous long post with 4 chain posts of your own...

    I think you skimmed through that and realized that he took your point and trapped you with your own logic and your own source to prove you wrong. So you can't reply.

    According to the source that you brought up and said you respect. Messi is better in big games... Period. Not just a bit better... Alot better.
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    Messi in major competitions without Xavi and Iniesta (CL with Barca Post 2015 and with Argentina) :
    13 total chances, ZERO TROPHIES

    Xavi and Iniesta in major competitions without Messi (CL with Barca between 05 and 07 before Messi was a starter/year he was injured, plus 5 with Spain):
    8 Chances, 4 Trophies

    All three together (CL With Barca 2008 through 2015):
    8 Chances, 3 Trophies
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    So you negged me cos I called u out on not being a "true Reverse tie Crew guy" Luke?

    I guess you'd nab my Football - if we was at School too .... even if we was both in the "reverse tie crew"!!!??
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    Messi in major competitions without Xavi and Iniesta (CL with Barca Post 2015 and with Argentina) :
    13 total chances, ZERO TROPHIES

    Xavi and Iniesta in major competitions without Messi (CL with Barca between 05 and 07 before Messi was a starter/year he was injured, plus 5 with Spain):
    8 Chances, 4 Trophies

    All three together (CL With Barca 2008 through 2015):
    8 Chances, 3 Trophies
    If I remember correctly,

    Ronaldo has played in 3 international finals and has never scored or assisted, frankly I don't remember what he did in any of them because he got injured in 1 and was completely invisible in the others... I also remember Barcelona winning quite a few trophies when Iniesta and Xavi were way wast their prime and coming off the bench. Didn't barcelona do a double last year?

    With real madrid Ronaldo won only 1 trophy before Zidane came.. And he had Benzema, Modric and Kroos giving him HEAVY support.

    In any case..

    I'm curious, why don't you counter the guy's post?

    It clearly shows Messi has ridiculous big game impact..
    Last edited by Merretto; 08-06-2020 at 02:37 PM.
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    Originally Posted by MatthewChav View Post
    So you negged me cos I called u out on not being a "true Reverse tie Crew guy" Luke?

    I guess you'd nab my Football - if we was at School too .... even if we was both in the "reverse tie crew"!!!??
    Id kick it over fence where you cant get it mate
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    Id kick it over fence where you cant get it mate
    Even in the "reverse tie crew" 2gether!!
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    Id kick it over fence where you cant get it mate
    At my school if we let u join our "Teams" and we found you did'nt do ur Tie thin - you'd get it cut .... Vinny Jones style G!!
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    Originally Posted by Merretto View Post
    If I remember correctly,

    Ronaldo has played in 3 international finals and has never scored or assisted, frankly I don't remember what he did in any of them because he got injured in 1 and was completely invisible in the others... I also remember Barcelona winning quite a few trophies when Iniesta and Xavi were way wast their prime and coming off the bench. Didn't barcelona do a double last year?

    With real madrid he won only 1 trophy before Zidane came.. And he had Benzema, Modric and Kroos giving him HEAVY support.

    In any case..

    I'm curious, why don't you counter the guy's post?

    It clearly shows Messi has ridiculous big game impact..
    I guess you are new to football, welcome to the thread brother

    CR7 featured in 2 finals with Portugal, one he came off injured very early as you said. The other was in 04, just after his first season at United, he hadn't developed to be world class yet. Really his career at the top started at about 2006.

    You're right about Benzema, Kroos and Modric, great players but not at the same level as Barca's squad. Iniesta and Xavi are the two best midfielders ever, Modric and Kroos would not be top 25.

    Benzema is a solid player, maybe a top 15-20 attacking player in the world, at his prime (behind Messi, Ronaldo, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, Hazard, Neymar, Suarez, Aguero etc...). In 2015 CR7 and Messi were of course 1 and 2, and then Neymar and Suarez were 3 and 4 in terms of best player in the world.
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    Originally Posted by Hina12 View Post
    Location: Great Britain.
    Football knowledge: negligible.
    Reasoning: Can't get over the fact that his ancestors created football yet the current UK masses continue to suck at it.
    Admitted as a fellow Englishman, it baffles me too ... we have only won the World Cup once!!
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    Originally Posted by MatthewChav View Post
    Admitted as a fellow Englishman, it baffles me too ... we have only won the World Cup once!!
    Shhh its coming home matty!
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    Shhh its coming home matty!
    I hope yer .....!!

    You'd still get ya Tie cut though!!
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    I guess you are new to football, welcome to the thread brother

    CR7 featured in 2 finals with Portugal, one he came off injured very early as you said. The other was in 04, just after his first season at United, he hadn't developed to be world class yet. Really his career at the top started at about 2006.

    You're right about Benzema, Kroos and Modric, great players but not at the same level as Barca's squad. Iniesta and Xavi are the two best midfielders ever, Modric and Kroos would not be top 25.

    Benzema is a solid player, maybe a top 15-20 attacking player in the world, at his prime (behind Messi, Ronaldo, Robben, Ribery, Lewandowski, Hazard, Neymar, Suarez, Aguero etc...). In 2015 CR7 and Messi were of course 1 and 2, and then Neymar and Suarez were 3 and 4 in terms of best player in the world.
    Maybe I am new, but I distinctly remember Ronaldo participating in the nations league final... Last year was it?

    I agree with you about pretty much everything you said regarding the quality of Xavi & Iniesta.

    But

    I'm also aware that they didn't exist in the system to serve Messi the final ball... Where as the entire strategy of Benzema, Bale, Modric, Kroos as well as every other midfielder to play for madrid was to get Ronaldo the final ball in the box as often as possible.

    In anycase... you still havent addressed AJR's UCL analysis.
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    Nations final nobody cares for, not a major trophy

    That team did feed Ronaldo yes, and it worked! They won 4/5 CL trophies. Nobody has ever repeated but they THREEpeated

    Not sure what his post was about, but CR7 scores at more than double the goals per game in Champions League Quarter final onward games. Hes won more trophies, reached more finals, reached more semi's with significantly worse teams.

    To me thats more than enough, withour diving into detailed stats
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    Originally Posted by LukeS1 View Post
    Nations final nobody cares for, not a major trophy

    That team did feed Ronaldo yes, and it worked! They won 4/5 CL trophies. Nobody has ever repeated but they THREEpeated

    Not sure what his post was about, but CR7 scores at more than double the goals per game in Champions League Quarter final onward games. Hes won more trophies, reached more finals, reached more semi's with significantly worse teams.

    To me thats more than enough, withour diving into detailed stats
    I didn't think much of the nations league either.

    And the get the ball to Ronaldo strategy has worked very well on so many occasions.

    But I have seen all recent UCL and I've read through the guys long a$$ post.

    According to this site who scored. Ronaldo doesn't really show up for semi finals other than 1 year and he's never been the main man in any major final he's played in UCL or international. And those are the biggest games... indisputably

    That's not to say that I don't love watching Ronaldo because I do. Through the good and the bad.

    I remember watching Madrid vs Juve a few years ago and Ronaldo did what he had to, to get Madrid through.. Juve had them on the ropes, equal on aggregate and ronaldo dove in the box very late in the game.. It was a pretty obvious dive. But it was necessary wasnt it. I respect that. It's an overlooked talent, the ugly side of football, but it's necessary.

    I also saw Real Madrid vs Bayern in that controversial 4-2 away game. Great entertainment over 2 legs, maybe my favorite round ever. Real was up 2-1 going into their home game. Bayern was dominating Real and managed to go up 2-1 in Madrid putting them under immense pressure, a 3rd goal seemed imminent. Casemiro should have been given a red on 3 separate occasions but that didn't happen.. Strange.. but i'm not complaining lol.

    Vidal was then given a red when he wasnt the player who made contact, literally out of nowhere and against the run of play. That decision was the beginning of a series of frankly baffling refereeing decisions. Like Ronaldo's 2 OT offside goals, the first one was hilarious because Ronaldo didn't celebrate intially.. He knew he was off by over a meter, and then he got a second offside goal that was way offside..

    Hugely entertaining game but i'm fairly certain, along with every pundit in europe, from what i've read, that Madrid pulled a juventus and had the ref in their pocket..

    What do you think?
    Last edited by Merretto; 08-06-2020 at 03:35 PM.
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  28. #898
    Gooner for Life frezKo's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Merretto View Post
    Bruh... you answered his previous long post with 4 chain posts of your own...

    I think you skimmed through that and realized that he took your point and trapped you with your own logic and your own source to prove you wrong. So you can't reply.

    According to the source that you brought up and said you respect. Messi is better in big games... Period. Not just a bit better... Alot better.
    That's Luke S1.

    Dude suffers from some type of mental illness.
    Might be from that beak of his that gives him insecurity issues. Dude's nose is longer than my 8" dick

    reps on spread

    Originally Posted by MatthewChav View Post
    So you negged me cos I called u out on not being a "true Reverse tie Crew guy" Luke?

    I guess you'd nab my Football - if we was at School too .... even if we was both in the "reverse tie crew"!!!??
    repping to offset Luke's phaggit neg

    Originally Posted by Merretto View Post
    If I remember correctly,

    Ronaldo has played in 3 international finals and has never scored or assisted, frankly I don't remember what he did in any of them because he got injured in 1 and was completely invisible in the others... I also remember Barcelona winning quite a few trophies when Iniesta and Xavi were way wast their prime and coming off the bench. Didn't barcelona do a double last year?

    With real madrid Ronaldo won only 1 trophy before Zidane came.. And he had Benzema, Modric and Kroos giving him HEAVY support.

    In any case..

    I'm curious, why don't you counter the guy's post?

    It clearly shows Messi has ridiculous big game impact..
    Not to mention they won La Liga without Ronaldo and his teamate won the Balon d'Or.

    Luke S1 won't admit any of that cause he's a phaggit loser.


    Funny how he absolutely destroys and pisses on this Juve sqaud when bookies have Juve at higher odds to win the CL than Barca.
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  29. #899
    Registered User Merretto's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by frezKo View Post
    That's Luke S1.

    Dude suffers from some type of mental illness.
    Might be from that beak of his that gives him insecurity issues. Dude's nose is longer than my 8" dick

    reps on spread



    repping to offset Luke's phaggit neg



    Not to mention they won La Liga without Ronaldo and his teamate won the Balon d'Or.

    Luke S1 won't admit any of that cause he's a phaggit loser.


    Funny how he absolutely destroys and pisses on this Juve sqaud when bookies have Juve at higher odds to win the CL than Barca.
    LMAO.. That's harsh


    2011 Barca vs Madrid in the UCL Semi finals. Ronaldo vs Messi head to head. Big solo goal for messi to break the deadlock AWAY in Madrid, dribbling past 4 players... He didn't need a single team mate for this one.. LukeS1, does this goal qualify as clutch?

    Last edited by Merretto; 08-06-2020 at 04:18 PM.
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  30. #900
    Luke LukeS1's Avatar
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    When I say show up in a big game I mean performances like this;



    Against the best defence in the world, Neuer, Hummels, Boateng, Lahm and Alaba all in their primes, with Vidal and Xabi Alonso in front of them.

    I don't think there has ever been someone that scored 5 goals in a late stage CL KO tie with no pens? If they have nobody has come close to scoring 5 non penalty goes, against the number 1 defence in the world, with each goal being a crucial go ahead or leveling one, rather than garbage time stat padding
    6'1, 205 lbs

    Luke
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