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  1. #1
    Registered User 905letters's Avatar
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    Arrow Do you need to isolate the traps?

    I was wondering whether or not I should incorporate shrugs in my workout routine. I notice a lot of workout routines on here, for example fierce 5, don't contain an isolation exercise for the traps (no shrugs). Do you guys think it's not really necessary or do you think it's best to do shrugs for optimal gains?
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    Registered User air2fakie's Avatar
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    Most decent back workouts will already hit the traps a bit, but if you want optimal gains you'll prob have to incorporate some isolation. Whether you "need to" depends on how big you want your traps to be and how happy you are with how your traps are developing now.
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    I throw in DB shrugs at the end of my workout. In my opinion, its really not necessary but it makes a nice vanity add-on at the end.
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    49 going on 36 PurmaBulker1984's Avatar
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    If you want traps that are proportionally larger than they are now, then yes. If your traps are size wise inline with the rest of your physique and you have other goals then probably not. Training upper traps directly is pretty low on my priority list. I would say they are just below calf, abs and lower back isolation exercises and above forearm and wrist training. So you look at your work out and see if you have the time and energy to devote.
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    Registered User leidenesLK's Avatar
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    I personally don't see a need to do them. My upper traps are hit just fine in overhead press, deadlift and even in pendlay row to a lesser degree. The reason you don't see them in fierce 5 is due to the postural issues that can arise with overdeveloped upper traps. If you're going to shrug, I would always recommend overhead shrugs over the traditional shrug with your arms by your sides. Reason being that the traditional shrug engages the levator scapulae and rhomboids, which are responsible for downward rotation of the scapula. This isn't inherently a bad thing, but due to most routines being downward scapula rotation dominant it would just further facilitate that imbalance, which is probably another reason for its exclusion in fierce 5.
    Last edited by leidenesLK; 08-13-2019 at 05:49 PM.
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    I don't do upper trap isolations. Less often than forearms. I religiously target lower traps to help balance all the pushing.

    I add in isolations as I find them necessary. I did forearms for a few blocks to help strengthen them for pushing exercises. I am adding triceps lately to help with bench. I always do biceps cuz I just like biceps. I often do abs cuz it's a habit from the gymnastics days. I do calves a bit, but not religiously because I do a lot of hiking and cycling which targets calves pretty good. All that to say target them if you think you need to build them for some reason, or if you just enjoy it.
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    Awesomest bodybuilding forum, ever! Where people recommend no shrugs
    bb.com, a place that turned Deadlift into a forearm isolation exercise

    and a place where 99% of 21 year olds have bad back and knees.
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    Originally Posted by 905letters View Post
    I was wondering whether or not I should incorporate shrugs in my workout routine. I notice a lot of workout routines on here, for example fierce 5, don't contain an isolation exercise for the traps (no shrugs). Do you guys think it's not really necessary or do you think it's best to do shrugs for optimal gains?
    Isolation may help if you want to focus some growth and feel a pump. But if doing shrugs, make sure you hold for 3 seconds on every rep otherwise quite pointless in my opinion.
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    Registered User HeMB's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ZoranM View Post
    Awesomest bodybuilding forum, ever! Where people recommend no shrugs
    Yeah, lol.


    I have never seen a guy in any gym with enough upper traps (despite pro builders and other really serious lifters).

    And still no one honestly train them. LMAO


    Not to mention that upper traps also contributes to proper posture. So never training them is hilarious.
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  10. #10
    Registered User jademonkey's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ZoranM View Post
    Awesomest bodybuilding forum, ever! Where people recommend no shrugs
    I think most people here don't compete, and care more about aesthetics and strength vs making everything as big as possible. Hit them if you want the extra size but I see no reason to make them as big as humanly possible and look like a neckless hulk unless that's what you are going for or if you are being judged on having the biggest everything.
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  11. #11
    49 going on 36 PurmaBulker1984's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jademonkey View Post
    I think most people here don't compete, and care more about aesthetics and strength vs making everything as big as possible. Hit them if you want the extra size but I see no reason to make them as big as humanly possible and look like a neckless hulk unless that's what you are going for or if you are being judged on having the biggest everything.
    Endless shrugs won't make your traps huge, genetics and special sports supplements make your traps huge. He's just being a tool.

    There's another thread on here where a guy is asking about his back routine and he has 18 trap sets, 9 row sets and 20+ bicep sets and he's calling his 'back' day. So telling every person here who wants a big back to do a chit ton of bad form shrugs and throw there overall progress out the window is a bad idea.
    160 lbs and jacked is about as impressive as D cups on a 300lb woman
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  12. #12
    Registered User MarsScorpio's Avatar
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    I will incorporate shrugs and sometimes clean pulls to target the traps. I do it more to make my neck feel better, my neck has never been the same since I did greco roman wrestling in high school. If I dont do shrugs twice a week my neck will start to bother me. I had a doctor tell me I had a muscular imbalance that was causing that neck pain. She said I needed to strengthen my neck muscles by doing a lot of shrugs and neck work and over time that will cause my neck pain to go away. So far her advice has been working.

    So my advice be careful when you cut out some exercises that it wont create in the long run a muscular imbalance.
    Last edited by MarsScorpio; 08-15-2019 at 05:32 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Originally Posted by PurmaBulker1984 View Post
    Endless shrugs won't make your traps huge, genetics and special sports supplements make your traps huge. He's just being a tool.
    That's right because only people who take stuff can get a great physique and get big right? There's no way to determine how big someone can build a muscle naturally.

    That's a bunch of nonsense and BS. If you want to improve a muscle area, you ****ing train it. You don't need "special supplements." And you have the genetics you have. Nothing you can do about it so you shouldn't even worry about something you can't change. Work with what you have.

    People think you have to be taking "stuff" in order to get big and that's bull****. You can get big and build a great physique naturally. It's just an excuse people use so they can talk themselves into not trying or not putting in the work.
    Last edited by health4life24; 08-15-2019 at 07:23 AM.
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    49 going on 36 PurmaBulker1984's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by health4life24 View Post
    That's right because only people who take stuff can get a great physique and get big right? There's no way to determine how big someone can build a muscle naturally.

    That's a bunch of nonsense and BS. If you want to improve a muscle area, you ****ing train it. You don't need "special supplements." And you have the genetics you have. Nothing you can do about it so you shouldn't even worry about something you can't change. Work with what you have.

    People think you have to be taking "stuff" in order to get big and that's bull****. You can get big and build a great physique naturally. It's just an excuse people use so they can talk themselves into not trying or not putting in the work.
    Thanks for Negging me. You're the 400 sets a week guy right. I'll take advice from someone else.

    If you read the entire thread. I said that you can train Traps directly to make them larger in proportion to the rest of you physique. But if your physique is lacking in general you are better focusing on the major muscle groups. And from a body building perspective i would put traps below abs and above forearms on my list of importance for isolation work. Lastly when Zodiac chimed in chitting on everyone with his one size fits all approach, giving his absolute that all people should be training traps. I pointed out the obvious that huge looking traps require a genetic high insertion to the neck and/or supplements which react to muscle groups with high quantities of andro receptors. Nothing about people not getting big, i'm sure as hell bigger than you so i don't need you to point that out.

    But you keep singing the same old song that everyone is a special butterfly. Because you know there is no such thing as systemic fatigue or work capacity, laws of diminishing returns, or just ignorant lifters ^^^^.
    160 lbs and jacked is about as impressive as D cups on a 300lb woman
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    49 going on 36 PurmaBulker1984's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by health4life24 View Post
    That's right because only people who take stuff can get a great physique and get big right? There's no way to determine how big someone can build a muscle naturally.

    That's a bunch of nonsense and BS. If you want to improve a muscle area, you ****ing train it. You don't need "special supplements." And you have the genetics you have. Nothing you can do about it so you shouldn't even worry about something you can't change. Work with what you have.

    People think you have to be taking "stuff" in order to get big and that's bull****. You can get big and build a great physique naturally. It's just an excuse people use so they can talk themselves into not trying or not putting in the work.
    Thanks for Negging me. You're the 400 sets a week guy right. I'll take my advice from someone else.

    If you read the entire thread. I said that you can train Traps directly to make them larger in proportion to the rest of your physique. But if your physique is lacking in general you are better focusing on the major muscle groups. And from a body building perspective i would put traps below abs and above forearms on my list of importance for isolation work. Then when Zodiac chimed in chitting on everyone with his one size fits all approach, giving his absolute that all people should be training traps.

    My comment about generics and supplements was responding to jades response about. Pro body builders hulk traps. If you can't accept that then ive got an island in Arizona to sell you.

    But you keep singing the same old song that everyone is a special butterfly. Because you know there is no such thing as systemic fatigue or work capacity, laws of diminishing returns, or just ignorant lifters ^^^^.
    Last edited by PurmaBulker1984; 08-15-2019 at 09:49 AM.
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    Registered User Halfway's Avatar
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    Hammer shrug machine with freemotion handles looped around the handles, for a few high rep sets on weeks I do no deadlifting variations.

    The important thing is not to slump your shoulders and overstretch on these. It's a short rom lift, so I like 20 rep sets with a moderate weight

    Most people look like massive retards doing horrible form heavy "shrugs", don't be one of those people
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    Originally Posted by PurmaBulker1984 View Post
    Thanks for Negging me. You're the 400 sets a week guy right. I'll take my advice from someone else.

    But you keep singing the same old song that everyone is a special butterfly. Because you know there is no such thing as systemic fatigue or work capacity, laws of diminishing returns, or just ignorant lifters ^^^^.
    400 sets a week? Where do you get that info from? I’ve never said I do 400 sets a week lol. You know nothing about my training. And if you are referring to the fact that I’ve made reference to using high volume, what does that have anything to do with it? Are you saying high volume training is wrong? Or that it isn’t efficient? Because I’m not the only one who trains with high volume. To give you an example, I trained with someone this morning who did probably 30-40 or more sets of chest today. He also has a great build, big and muscular and lean. Is because what he's doing is out of the norm of what most people do does it make it wrong if it is giving him the results he is after? And you should know that I never advocate for beginners or anyone in general to follow crazy high volume routines or to do what I do or have done. Not once. If I make mention of it it's because I'm pointing out that for some people that style of training works and they prefer higher volume routines over lower volume. Too each their own.

    And fatigue, work capacity...it is going to be different from person to person. People are at different levels of fitness and their body’s recover at different rates. So yes training should be individualized to each person. But i guess that’s frowned upon in this section? Preaching the same old advice and spitting the same old sentences at every poster who asks a question is not helping. And half the time the OP is accused of being a troll if they don’t follow advice they didn’t ask for.

    I know I’m not the only one who feels this way about the way people respond to questions people ask in this section, but not everyone wants to go against the majority. It’s easier to jump on the bandwagon of everyone else. But me, I could care less. I’m not looking for approval.

    Fitness and training should be individualized and tailored to each person. As a beginner, maybe not so much.

    But this crap about thinking everyone is a “special snowflake”, you have no idea what you’re talking about.

    I don’t think acting as if the same stuff applies to everyone who posts a thread asking a question is right. More often than not I see people asking questions, and the same old stuff is regurgitated to them, and then the OP gets ridiculed as a troll because they aren’t taking advice they didn’t even ask for.

    If you don’t think people respond to training stimulus differently, recover at different rates, etc. then I don’t know what to tell you. People look at that as considering people “special snowflakes” but it’s a fact training is gonna be different from person to person.

    And just because someone’s training style is out of the norm, like very high volume for instance, doesn’t mean they are ignorant.

    The only way to truly figure out what works best for you is through trial and error. Hence why some people find high volume works better, and for others less volume.

    We've gotten off track here. I agree there are basic fundamentals that apply to everyone, but those specific fundamentals are gonna vary at which point they affect someone. Does that make sense? Fatigue will kick in at different points and different levels of intensity for people; diminishing returns will be different for people; how much volume one requires to make progress is different from person to person. So yes you are right there are basic principles that apply to everyone, but it isn't that simple. If it was that simple, then wouldn't everyone be able to follow the same routine and get the same results? But that's not the way it works. Because people respond differently to training volume, recover at different rates, and build strength and muscle at different rates. Part of it is genetics too obviously.
    Last edited by health4life24; 08-15-2019 at 11:04 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Halfway View Post
    Hammer shrug machine with freemotion handles looped around the handles, for a few high rep sets on weeks I do no deadlifting variations.

    The important thing is not to slump your shoulders and overstretch on these. It's a short rom lift, so I like 20 rep sets with a moderate weight

    Most people look like massive retards doing horrible form heavy "shrugs", don't be one of those people
    ^^

    This,

    Other variations I like for the same job are overhead shrugs, and high pulls
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  19. #19
    49 going on 36 PurmaBulker1984's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by health4life24 View Post
    The only way to truly figure out what works best for you is through trial and error. Hence why some people find high volume works better, and for others less volume.
    Great idea. Every one start from scratch and do your own thing. Because your muscles don't follow the same laws of biology and physics. In reality the variances from person to person are very small.

    If your goal is to look like an anemic flying squirrel then your way works.

    But if you want to add mass and strength I'll stick to getting my information from coaching sources that have trained 1000s of successful people.
    160 lbs and jacked is about as impressive as D cups on a 300lb woman
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  20. #20
    4am club health4life24's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by PurmaBulker1984 View Post
    Great idea. Every one start from scratch and do your own thing. Because your muscles don't follow the same laws of biology and physics. In reality the variances from person to person are very small.

    If your goal is to look like an anemic flying squirrel then your way works.

    But if you want to add mass and strength I'll stick to getting my information from coaching sources that have trained 1000s of successful people.
    And you are saying "my way" but I am not suggesting any particular way of training. I NEVER preach that people copy what I do or that any one way of training is right. Just because I say I prefer high volume training doesn't mean I'm suggesting everyone should do that.

    But here's the problem with basing your training only off research. It's just that, research. It isn't guaranteed. At some point you have to actually perform trial and error and experiment with different training styles to determine what works. Research isn't set in stone or guaranteed to deliver the same results for every person out there.

    You're knocking me because I'm a fan of high volume training and because I believe training should be individualized but I've also been training for many years and I've learned how my body responds to training and what works for me. I am certainly not suggesting anyone copy what I do, never once will you see me suggesting that. I'm merely suggesting don't act as if the same thing applies to everyone here. If a poster asks a question, spitting the same advice to every new member isn't always necessarily helping them.

    But assuming that the same thing applies to every lifter out there is just ignorant. You have basic fundamental principles yes, but that doesn't mean that those specific principles are gonna apply in the same way to everyone. The rate at which someone get's fatigue; rate at which someone builds muscle and strength; amount of volume one requires to make progress, each unique to every person. So in theory yes, you are right there are principles that do apply to everyone but it's still gonna be different which is why your training should be tailored to yourself. And you can only figure that out through trial and error.

    If it were the same for everyone you wouldn't have some people doing high volume routines and others low volume routines.

    You can put two people on the same routine who are at the same fitness level and both could get different results.

    You are misunderstanding me. I'm not suggesting people start from scratch and just do whatever and hope for results. You are not following what I am saying and how it might be interpreted over the internet is another thing.
    Last edited by health4life24; 08-15-2019 at 11:26 AM.
    - Your mindset influences your outcome. It's time to take out phrases like "I can't" or "I don't have time" and replace them with phrases like "I will make the time" and "I will keep working at it until I find a way that works." Success starts with the right mindset and believing in yourself and your dreams.
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  21. #21
    Weak and foolish OldFartTom's Avatar
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    Can we have any kind of sensible middle ground, without descending into bizarre fighting. Why is the flying squirrel anemic?? And who are you to judge anyone in these politically correct times if they choose their identity and lifestyle in terms of a squirrel (Squirrel+) Squirrel+ equality! To achieve Squirrel ,I'd actually recommend more pull ups over shrugs

    Anyway, no you don't Have to do accessory exercises and still have a balanced program, but if you're going to do accessories: farmers walks, shrugs and so forth are pretty fine ones! You don't have to do them, but why not do at least a bit? IMHO if someone prioritized them ahead of biceps curls, I'd respect that!

    Last edited by OldFartTom; 08-16-2019 at 07:48 AM.
    Faith in Jesus first and faith in squats second.
    Then other details will start to slot themselves into place.
    Back on the diet :(
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  22. #22
    User ZoranM's Avatar
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    All this nonsense need to stop.
    You wanna bodybuild, shrugs are not the D*MN accessory!!
    bb.com, a place that turned Deadlift into a forearm isolation exercise

    and a place where 99% of 21 year olds have bad back and knees.
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