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  1. #1
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    How Many Believe "The Economy is Good"

    Then why would the federal reserve cut the rates?

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    Registered User Plateauplower's Avatar
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    I think the economy is humming along just fine. Markets are probably overdue for a correction but a rate reduction will likely cause additional upward trend in the stock market ('m up over 20% YTD). I have no idea why the fed does what it does, I wish we would go back to the gold standard and not have the fed personally. That said the US has been essentially controlled by the big banks since the Civil War. I'd guess the rate cut to be an attempt to get ahead of any potential economic slowdown as a result of the trade issues in the East, which could cause some contraction. In the long run it might be a good thing, I'd like to see some industry return to the US that has been sent oversees, especially things like equipment and machinery manufacturing..
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  3. #3
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    G, sure the Fed lowers interest rates in order to stimulate economic growth. More specifically, the Fed has to help meet its 3 economic goals: Promoting maximum employment, stabilizing prices and moderating long-term interest rates, which affect the cost of financial products like mortgages.

    For this period in time, the Fed needs to bring down rates to respond to Europe and Japan. Most likely 25 basis points, which translates to 25% of 1%. For one, this will help small businesses, corporations to more borrow money cheaper and use those funds to grow their businesses, while boosting the overall economy. It gives home-buyers more purchasing power.

    But, your question is why would the Fed need to lower interest rates if the US economy is already good. One answer is that it is the Fed's job to at least try and maintain that good economy by making adjustments if necessary and the Fed strives to maintain inflation at 2% over the long term. Sometimes the Fed makes mistakes like last year when it increased the rate because the Fed thought the economy was heating up too much. That was a bad mistake because although it didn't kill the economy, it stunted its potential. Just because an economy is heating up, it does not necessarily indicate that it is out of control. There has to be balance.

    Reducing rates is not an indication that the economy is bad.

    Politics aside, the economy is good.
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  4. #4
    Moderator SuffolkPunch's Avatar
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    No developed countries seem to get inflation when they are doing well anymore. It could be argued that Monetary policy is working (or maybe that it's redundant). There are various theories. For example debt is so high that nobody wants to borrow more even with favourable rates. Japan is a good example of this.

    S&P 500 is doing well and you can usually trust the stock market as a reasonable consensus of economic health (right up until the point where you can't...)

    Debt is still doing well in less developed countries. I have an emerging markets bond tracker which is doing nearly as well as the equity trackers.
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  5. #5
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Fed cuts 50bps January 2001 - Recession begins 2 months later
    Fed cuts 50 bps September 2007 - Recession begins 3 months later

    Many tie the fake stock market to the real economy. But truth is 90% of activities done at NYSE are performed by AI based on algorithms. NYSE has absolutely nothing to do with the economy. It's an illusion.

    If the real main street economy is good, how do you explain the all time PMI low in 10 years, the fact that the first quarter of 2019 had more store closures than all of 2018 combined, the fact that the bond yield curve has inverted?

    There are many metrics that indicate the economy is not as good as the powers that be want you to believe.

    Americans who are NOT labor work force is almost 100 million, yet the unemployment rate is sub 4%.

    The truth is the fake market is addicted to easy money, which is why the fed will drop the rate. If you recall on December 24, 2018, the DOW tanked 1000 points over the possibility of Quantitative Tightening and increasing the rate. The truth is we are in an everything bubble. CANDIDATE TRUMP spoke the truth prior to the election, which was one reason many voted for him, including myself. He has done a complete 180 since becoming president, and he recently went full Keynesian when he begged the fed NOT to raise the rates and also said he wants to devalue the dollar.

    I want to be wrong. But so many people believe all is good. It's not.

    To top it off, more and more countries have sold off UST and begun to de-dollarize.
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  6. #6
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    Fed cuts 50bps January 2001 - Recession begins 2 months later
    Inflation had reached 13.5% and the Federal Reserve raised interest rates and slowed money supply growth, which slowed the economy and caused unemployment to rise. Energy prices and supply were put at risk causing a confidence crisis as well as inflation.

    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    Fed cuts 50 bps September 2007 - Recession begins 3 months later
    There was a breakdown of trust that occurred between banks the year before the 2008 financial crisis. It was caused by the subprime mortgage crisis, which itself was caused by the unregulated use of derivatives.

    **It is always good to look at history, but none of those factors exist today and most factors today look toward a bull economy. I will maintain my portfolio. Our economic growth currently is based on confidence. Confidence of business owners and consumer confidence, no matter what political side you may be on.
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  7. #7
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    Originally Posted by SuffolkPunch View Post
    For example debt is so high that nobody wants to borrow more even with favourable rates. Japan is a good example of this.

    S&P 500 is doing well and you can usually trust the stock market as a reasonable consensus of economic health (right up until the point where you can't...)
    Not sure I really understand the US economy, so no opinion there. It just sounds so much better than ours.

    What you are saying about the debt is probably a very accurate description for Canada as well. The debt load of Canadians is starting to alarm a lot of international monetary policy makers/lenders. Real wage growth is not there in resource extraction/services economy of ours. So your average John P Canuck has to borrow for forever and day for a home (the real estate is spiraling upwards out of everyone's price range) or a big ticket item like a car. It seems all the real good jobs are with the government or government sponsored agencies and "crown corporations". There is something wrong when its a huge issue that they are raising the minimum wage to where it is going...this is driven by politics..... Those wages should be climbing in a strong economy to attract workers because they cant find any. If they raise the interest rates too high you will start to see the defaults and bankruptcies increase dramatically from what I understand, its that close. I have family in the US and there just seems to be so much more economic potential there from what I see.

    Stock market: I have pretty much sold out in the last two years with the exception of a couple of large American firms that are just plain good earners good economy or bad. The stock prices are like housing...priced out of reach, a sellers market.
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  8. #8
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    Inflation had reached 13.5% and the Federal Reserve raised interest rates and slowed money supply growth, which slowed the economy and caused unemployment to rise. Energy prices and supply were put at risk causing a confidence crisis as well as inflation.



    There was a breakdown of trust that occurred between banks the year before the 2008 financial crisis. It was caused by the subprime mortgage crisis, which itself was caused by the unregulated use of derivatives.

    **It is always good to look at history, but none of those factors exist today and most factors today look toward a bull economy. I will maintain my portfolio. Our economic growth currently is based on confidence. Confidence of business owners and consumer confidence, no matter what political side you may be on.
    But that's exactly it. CON-fidence.

    What happens when confidence dissipate, which it will soon? The fed officially cut the rate 25bps as of 2PM EST, a few hours after I predicted it would happen.

    The fed just showed the world that the dollar does not deserve to remain as the world reserve currency. (Of course many nations already know this, which is why they have been hoarding gold and selling UST and bypassing the SWIFT.)

    The 2008 crash was a test run. We never had a recovery since then, because the fed implemented for the first time in history the concept of ZIRP.

    There is no turning back. Next is NIRP. Mark my word.
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  9. #9
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cantplankwell View Post
    Not sure I really understand the US economy, so no opinion there. It just sounds so much better than ours.

    What you are saying about the debt is probably a very accurate description for Canada as well. The debt load of Canadians is starting to alarm a lot of international monetary policy makers/lenders. Real wage growth is not there in resource extraction/services economy of ours. So your average John P Canuck has to borrow for forever and day for a home (the real estate is spiraling upwards out of everyone's price range) or a big ticket item like a car. It seems all the real good jobs are with the government or government sponsored agencies and "crown corporations". There is something wrong when its a huge issue that they are raising the minimum wage to where it is going...this is driven by politics..... Those wages should be climbing in a strong economy to attract workers because they cant find any. If they raise the interest rates too high you will start to see the defaults and bankruptcies increase dramatically from what I understand, its that close. I have family in the US and there just seems to be so much more economic potential there from what I see.

    Stock market: I have pretty much sold out in the last two years with the exception of a couple of large American firms that are just plain good earners good economy or bad. The stock prices are like housing...priced out of reach, a sellers market.
    the only thing you need to know about the US economy is that the criminal federal reserve is the lifeblood of the military industrial complex. We are constantly at war for one thing and one thing only: To force nations to use the petrodollar. This will come to an end.
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  10. #10
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    But that's exactly it. CON-fidence.

    What happens when confidence dissipate, which it will soon? The fed officially cut the rate 25bps as of 2PM EST, a few hours after I predicted it would happen.

    The fed just showed the world that the dollar does not deserve to remain as the world reserve currency. (Of course many nations already know this, which is why they have been hoarding gold and selling UST and bypassing the SWIFT.)

    The 2008 crash was a test run. We never had a recovery since then, because the fed implemented for the first time in history the concept of ZIRP.

    There is no turning back. Next is NIRP. Mark my word.
    The financial pundits have been predicting a 25bsp to 50bsp reduction for weeks. Confidence always fluctuates. Corporate taxes and regulations are much lower than the previous administration which results in what we are seeing such as lower unemployment (more people working and being hired), expansion, which stimulates the economy.

    The risks for recession are not high. However, a recession in the future may very well happen as there is a normal cycle. But, what the Fed does is at least try and reduce those risks with monetary policy.

    I do respect your opinion
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  11. #11
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    Originally Posted by Cantplankwell View Post
    The debt load of Canadians is starting to alarm a lot of international monetary policy makers/lenders.
    Congratulations, your country is still slightly ahead of mine in terms of housing bubble risk. Hopefully we can catch up soon.
    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/map...-bubble-risks/



    Two of my favorite channels/shows cover this stuff all the time if anyone is interested.
    (Keiser Report and The Money GPS)

    KR is on RT but someone made a separate channel for the episodes, although the latest one is always delayed a bit:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQm...3naA1kA/videos








    My extremely advanced plan is essentially to hold on to my bitcoin for dear life and if there is a next bull market trade some in for gold and silver. Some large whale by the way, possibly China, is buying up a lot of silver.
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  12. #12
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    the only thing you need to know about the US economy is that the criminal federal reserve is the lifeblood of the military industrial complex. We are constantly at war for one thing and one thing only: To force nations to use the petrodollar. This will come to an end.
    NorwichGrad - keep lifting, stay out of economics, or go back to the Philippines and be happy. I've heard your past rants about the US and Mark1T has tried to give you a brief summary of Fed philosophy, but I fear it is in vain. I know you believe the US is out to exploit the world and steal oil, but the US is actually a net oil exporter and is moving to extract itself from the middle east. The Fed has a mandate to keep inflation low and uses its monetary tools to meet it. As for the economy, it sure as hell is a lot better than it was 2 or 3 years ago. If low interest rates, low unemployment, corporate repatriation and rising wages doesn't make you happy, then nothing will. You can always have higher taxes and larger public handouts like NY and Illinois, but then you would be one of the state's experiencing an exodus of its population due to those failed policies.

    As for the strength of the US dollar, it is to the US benefit for trade to have a weaker dollar. Unfortunately, every other country believes the same thing and is much more active in manipulating their currency. The reason why the US dollar will stay strong in the long run is because we are the prettiest dog in this race. No other country has the physical resources, technology, infrastructure, or legal system to maintain its standard of living if it was cut off from the rest of its trading partners. This why we will continue to have a strong dollar, run a deficit, and be the world's reserve currency. Some would argue the Euro or Yuan could be a substitute, but it would be a weak argument. As for going back to gold or silver as a standard of reserve, the US has been there and done that - it was a failure because the animal spirits will still rule, so why limit your country to a commodity which can be manipulated. I'm ranting. Sorry, I just get cranking when I hear people complain about how bad we (USA) are. I've been to a lot of other countries and we have it real good. Even if a lot of Americans are lazy, whinny, and have not spend enough time really looking at the rest of the world. The US is not perfect, but we are a damn site better than the rest.
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  13. #13
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by steffo99 View Post
    Congratulations, your country is still slightly ahead of mine in terms of housing bubble risk. Hopefully we can catch up soon.
    https://www.visualcapitalist.com/map...-bubble-risks/



    Two of my favorite channels/shows cover this stuff all the time if anyone is interested.
    (Keiser Report and The Money GPS)

    KR is on RT but someone made a separate channel for the episodes, although the latest one is always delayed a bit:
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQm...3naA1kA/videos








    My extremely advanced plan is essentially to hold on to my bitcoin for dear life and if there is a next bull market trade some in for gold and silver. Some large whale by the way, possibly China, is buying up a lot of silver.

    Good stuff.

    I also follow the same channels. When you have time, here is great summary of what's happening.

    Last edited by NorwichGrad; 08-02-2019 at 04:58 PM.
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  14. #14
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by congore View Post
    NorwichGrad - keep lifting, stay out of economics, or go back to the Philippines and be happy. I've heard your past rants about the US and Mark1T has tried to give you a brief summary of Fed philosophy, but I fear it is in vain. I know you believe the US is out to exploit the world and steal oil, but the US is actually a net oil exporter and is moving to extract itself from the middle east. The Fed has a mandate to keep inflation low and uses its monetary tools to meet it. As for the economy, it sure as hell is a lot better than it was 2 or 3 years ago. If low interest rates, low unemployment, corporate repatriation and rising wages doesn't make you happy, then nothing will. You can always have higher taxes and larger public handouts like NY and Illinois, but then you would be one of the state's experiencing an exodus of its population due to those failed policies.

    As for the strength of the US dollar, it is to the US benefit for trade to have a weaker dollar. Unfortunately, every other country believes the same thing and is much more active in manipulating their currency. The reason why the US dollar will stay strong in the long run is because we are the prettiest dog in this race. No other country has the physical resources, technology, infrastructure, or legal system to maintain its standard of living if it was cut off from the rest of its trading partners. This why we will continue to have a strong dollar, run a deficit, and be the world's reserve currency. Some would argue the Euro or Yuan could be a substitute, but it would be a weak argument. As for going back to gold or silver as a standard of reserve, the US has been there and done that - it was a failure because the animal spirits will still rule, so why limit your country to a commodity which can be manipulated. I'm ranting. Sorry, I just get cranking when I hear people complain about how bad we (USA) are. I've been to a lot of other countries and we have it real good. Even if a lot of Americans are lazy, whinny, and have not spend enough time really looking at the rest of the world. The US is not perfect, but we are a damn site better than the rest.
    LMAO!!

    I don't even know where to begin.

    I don't tell others how to live their lives, who dafuq are you to tell me how to live mine by telling me to stay out of economics and go back home? Phuck you.

    You think you're the only one who has travelled the world? Whoop tee do. You saw the world as a civilian.

    I saw the world as a soldier, a tool of the military industrial complex who did the politicians dirty agenda while Americans at home continued to lose their freedoms.

    You are absolutely clueless on how geopolitics, economics, and monetary policies are joined at the hips.

    The fed is pure evil. Are you retarded and not know that the federal reserve is no federal and it has no reserve, and that it is a banking cabal made up of private international banks? And you think it's a good idea to centralized the monetary policy? What if I told you the federal reserve is exactly what Karl Marx had in mind in one of his pillars of communism?

    You are too stupid to realize we are always at war because the DC empire forces other countries to use the petrodollar.

    The US is not perfect. I love America more than statist nuthuggers like you will ever realize. And because I love her, I have a duty to expose her sickness.

    When you love a relative and that person has stage cancer, you will tell that person to seek medical help. You don't pretend everything is okay.

    You clearly are a Keynesian commie. Here let me explain what happened the past days:

    Fed dropped the rate 25 bps points. Stock market dropped. Stock market usually GOES UP whenever the rate drops. Why did it drop? It was because the fake market was expecting a 50 bps point.

    The following day, the stock market was making a recovery thanks to PPT. Then during the day, Trump announced that he was going to resurrect the tariff war and the market dropped again. Why?

    Because it's a game. Trump did not get what he initially wanted, 50 bps. So he told he was going to play the tariff game again to purposely force the fed to drop more.

    got it?

    Trump as a candidate was CORRECT when he said we were under a bubble. Then he did a 180 as POTUS.

    Here is the bottom line: TRUMP WANTS TO KILL THE DOLLAR. AND HE SHOULD CUZ THAT $HIT IS TOXIC, GOT IT?

    You see what's going on around the world. The East has been de-dollarizing, which is why the DC Empire has been pushing for war, ala Gulf of Tonkin, only Trump will not take the bait. The East has been dumping UST, which they should cuz that $hit is toxic. The East and banks have been hoarding gold, because they know it's real money. If you don't see gold and silver as real money, then you clearly are a brainwashed commie Keynesian.

    Compared to other countries, yes, we have it good. But when you see that we are on the path to becoming third world, you don't ignore that gangrene cuz it could turn into cancer.

    And that's where America is heading.

    So phukk you for worshipping the state.
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    So NorwichGrad what's your ZH username?

    Just curious. Haven't spent time on the Hedge in a long time...like years.
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    Mark,

    Something else happened during the housing crisis, the gas prices increased and continued to increase for several years. These two events really hurt everyone, the majority of the work force was buying gas with what they usually spent going out on weekends etc.

    That trickled down and hurt lots of businesses, I remember this.

    Also, I'd say things seem better, if they really are? I don't know? but people where unemployed much longer before Trump and people actually quit looking for work, not the case now. The issue now is benefits run out much faster after Trump and people are forced to work lower wage jobs, quite possibly.

    .....so yes the economy is good when everyone is working, BUT I'm not so sure people are making/landing the types of jobs with the types of pay they should be? The Government workers seem to be doing well, and I don't think that is a good thing? It is for them, but not so sure for country as a whole?

    I'm only making observations. Unlike training I'm not trying to be correct here

    Then there is the section eights, boy has that spread in my area lately, I don't even know my area anymore,(crackheads and trash all over the place) not sure what will come of that? but Trump is correct about Baltimore, I hate phucking Baltimore and Baltimore County is now phucked too.
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    LMAO!!

    I don't even know where to begin.

    I don't tell others how to live their lives, who dafuq are you to tell me how to live mine by telling me to stay out of economics and go back home? Phuck you.

    You think you're the only one who has travelled the world? Whoop tee do. You saw the world as a civilian.

    I saw the world as a soldier, a tool of the military industrial complex who did the politicians dirty agenda while Americans at home continued to lose their freedoms.

    You are absolutely clueless on how geopolitics, economics, and monetary policies are joined at the hips.

    The fed is pure evil. Are you retarded and not know that the federal reserve is no federal and it has no reserve, and that it is a banking cabal made up of private international banks? And you think it's a good idea to centralized the monetary policy? What if I told you the federal reserve is exactly what Karl Marx had in mind in one of his pillars of communism?

    You are too stupid to realize we are always at war because the DC empire forces other countries to use the petrodollar.

    The US is not perfect. I love America more than statist nuthuggers like you will ever realize. And because I love her, I have a duty to expose her sickness.

    When you love a relative and that person has stage cancer, you will tell that person to seek medical help. You don't pretend everything is okay.

    You clearly are a Keynesian commie. Here let me explain what happened the past days:

    Fed dropped the rate 25 bps points. Stock market dropped. Stock market usually GOES UP whenever the rate drops. Why did it drop? It was because the fake market was expecting a 50 bps point.

    The following day, the stock market was making a recovery thanks to PPT. Then during the day, Trump announced that he was going to resurrect the tariff war and the market dropped again. Why?

    Because it's a game. Trump did not get what he initially wanted, 50 bps. So he told he was going to play the tariff game again to purposely force the fed to drop more.

    got it?

    Trump as a candidate was CORRECT when he said we were under a bubble. Then he did a 180 as POTUS.

    Here is the bottom line: TRUMP WANTS TO KILL THE DOLLAR. AND HE SHOULD CUZ THAT $HIT IS TOXIC, GOT IT?

    You see what's going on around the world. The East has been de-dollarizing, which is why the DC Empire has been pushing for war, ala Gulf of Tonkin, only Trump will not take the bait. The East has been dumping UST, which they should cuz that $hit is toxic. The East and banks have been hoarding gold, because they know it's real money. If you don't see gold and silver as real money, then you clearly are a brainwashed commie Keynesian.

    Compared to other countries, yes, we have it good. But when you see that we are on the path to becoming third world, you don't ignore that gangrene cuz it could turn into cancer.

    And that's where America is heading.

    So phukk you for worshipping the state.
    Go find someplace better to live then. You weren't the only one oversees working for the military, but you obviously learned nothing from your experiences. Sure the US is gonna make mistakes, but rather than just bitching about how bad we are, why don't you say what we should do? Because you have no friggin idea. YOu would rather just complain about everything and how unjust the US is. Life is complex and the problems evolve as well as the solutions. You probably would rather go the socialist route, but don't forget about Mao, Stalin, Kim, and Hitler. The only way the US is gonna become a third world country is if crazies like you get in power. As for the east hording gold, they should since their economy is based on oil and they (OPEC) no longer controls global oil prices. The US is now a net exporter of oil in case you haven't heard, which is why the US will be getting the hell out of the middle east. I do think we as citizens give up too much of our freedom to the government (state or federal) and we need to reduce the federal bureaucracy and web of regulations, which is why I am glad we have a POTUS at least trying to cut down the fat and corruption. However, Trump is being blocked at nearly every turn by the entrenched bureaucracy, politicians, and media. But I'm sure you would rather have some socialist crazy raising taxes, handing out free medicare, and opening the borders. All while the citizens of this country pay for it and get our freedoms take away for the good of the non citizens of course. Don't call me a commie you paranoid loon. I'm an advocate of using every tool the US has (Fed, military, economic...) to insure our liberty and country stay strong.
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  18. #18
    High Plains Lifter Mark1T's Avatar
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    I have to respectfully not participate in these types of threads because this section has been through it before and it never ends well and good people leave.

    Thanks
    Helping one person may not change the world, but it could change the world for one person.

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    Knotty by Nature ChazWood's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    I have to respectfully not participate in these types of threads because this section has been through it before and it never ends well and good people leave.

    Thanks
    That's the sensible, mature approach, Marky.

    but where's the fun in that???

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  20. #20
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by congore View Post
    Go find someplace better to live then. You weren't the only one oversees working for the military, but you obviously learned nothing from your experiences. Sure the US is gonna make mistakes, but rather than just bitching about how bad we are, why don't you say what we should do? Because you have no friggin idea. YOu would rather just complain about everything and how unjust the US is. Life is complex and the problems evolve as well as the solutions. You probably would rather go the socialist route, but don't forget about Mao, Stalin, Kim, and Hitler. The only way the US is gonna become a third world country is if crazies like you get in power. As for the east hording gold, they should since their economy is based on oil and they (OPEC) no longer controls global oil prices. The US is now a net exporter of oil in case you haven't heard, which is why the US will be getting the hell out of the middle east. I do think we as citizens give up too much of our freedom to the government (state or federal) and we need to reduce the federal bureaucracy and web of regulations, which is why I am glad we have a POTUS at least trying to cut down the fat and corruption. However, Trump is being blocked at nearly every turn by the entrenched bureaucracy, politicians, and media. But I'm sure you would rather have some socialist crazy raising taxes, handing out free medicare, and opening the borders. All while the citizens of this country pay for it and get our freedoms take away for the good of the non citizens of course. Don't call me a commie you paranoid loon. I'm an advocate of using every tool the US has (Fed, military, economic...) to insure our liberty and country stay strong.
    You just lost all credibility by proving you are absolutely clueless on economics and geopolitics.

    Did you even proofread what you wrote?

    Using the fed and the military to preserve our liberty?

    Holed sheeet. You are truly a retard.

    The fed is the reason why we are always at war. The military does not provide freedoms. Have you heard of the patriot act? Have you heard of asset forfeiture. Are you aware that gubmint is constantly spying on its citizens?

    And what makes you think I’m a socialist. If i were socialist I would call you a commie. I would hug your nuts instead.

    I’m a real right winger. I’m to the right of most conservatives and libertarian.

    Solution? Solution is to end the Fed. End welfare. End warfare. Return to sound money.

    You are clueless. You’re a wannabe. Gtfo.

    “None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.” Von Goethe

    You really need to educate yourself. You have been brainwashed.
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  21. #21
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by congore View Post
    Go find someplace better to live then. You weren't the only one oversees working for the military, but you obviously learned nothing from your experiences. Sure the US is gonna make mistakes, but rather than just bitching about how bad we are, why don't you say what we should do? Because you have no friggin idea. YOu would rather just complain about everything and how unjust the US is. Life is complex and the problems evolve as well as the solutions. You probably would rather go the socialist route, but don't forget about Mao, Stalin, Kim, and Hitler. The only way the US is gonna become a third world country is if crazies like you get in power. As for the east hording gold, they should since their economy is based on oil and they (OPEC) no longer controls global oil prices. The US is now a net exporter of oil in case you haven't heard, which is why the US will be getting the hell out of the middle east. I do think we as citizens give up too much of our freedom to the government (state or federal) and we need to reduce the federal bureaucracy and web of regulations, which is why I am glad we have a POTUS at least trying to cut down the fat and corruption. However, Trump is being blocked at nearly every turn by the entrenched bureaucracy, politicians, and media. But I'm sure you would rather have some socialist crazy raising taxes, handing out free medicare, and opening the borders. All while the citizens of this country pay for it and get our freedoms take away for the good of the non citizens of course. Don't call me a commie you paranoid loon. I'm an advocate of using every tool the US has (Fed, military, economic...) to insure our liberty and country stay strong.
    Moreover.

    You just admitted that gubmint is worthless (which it is) yet you look to gubmint for the solution.

    It’s kinda like walking down a dark alley then you get ass raped. Your sphincter is bleeding. Why dafuq would you want the rapist to rape you more? Don’t you get it? Gubmint does nothing but rape citizens.

    Your thinking is dangerous to humanity.

    At least commies like Occasional Cortex and Pelosi and those two Muslims commies are openly commies.

    You pretend to love liberty yet you support the same institutions that have enslaved mankind since the beginning of time. How retarded is that?
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  22. #22
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    NorwichGrad,

    Since your an Olympic lifter lets look that sport, the countries, and it's history.

    The best O lifters are from China, Bulgaria.....well just about every country besides the USA.

    At one time America stood toe to toe with Russian lifters, guys like Norb and Kono.

    Here's the beauty of America versus these communist lifters, the Americans trained alone, no coaching, had jobs etc.

    Russians, China Government all hand pick these lifters at a young age and house them in Government facilities feed them drugs and force them to train.......it's utter B.S way to live, I don't care how "great" they perform. Ironmind put out a vid of this, while everyone jerked off to these skinny kids lifting huge weights, I cringed because it was communist B.S.

    I don't know where I'm going with this, but What Happened? Americans got good at Strongman, but that is like a chit......well not even a "sport" compared to O'lifting.

    What the phuck am I talking about? Well people in this country can still "choose" strongman over O'lifting or football and fail without Government intervention, that tells me, we are still "free".
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  23. #23
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    NorwichGrad,

    Since your an Olympic lifter lets look that sport, the countries, and it's history.

    The best O lifters are from China, Bulgaria.....well just about every country besides the USA.

    At one time America stood toe to toe with Russian lifters, guys like Norb and Kono.

    Here's the beauty of America versus these communist lifters, the Americans trained alone, no coaching, had jobs etc.

    Russians, China Government all hand pick these lifters at a young age and house them in Government facilities feed them drugs and force them to train.......it's utter B.S way to live, I don't care how "great" they perform. Ironmind put out a vid of this, while everyone jerked off to these skinny kids lifting huge weights, I cringed because it was communist B.S.

    I don't know where I'm going with this, but What Happened? Americans got good at Strongman, but that is like a chit......well not even a "sport" compared to O'lifting.

    What the phuck am I talking about? Well people in this country can still "choose" strongman over O'lifting or football and fail without Government intervention, that tells me, we are still "free".
    So you hate commies? GOOD! I hate them too.

    Here's the problem. You don't know freedom. If you think being able to choose a sport in America is a sign of freedom, you see the country from an extremely myopic standpoint.

    Let me explain why we are NOT as free as Americans back then:

    a) Prison. We represent 5% of the global population, yet 25% of global prisoners are Americans. Why? It's because politicians on both sides are addicted to criminalizing everything, especially victimless, non-violent crimes. You smoke a pot and you go to jail forever. Let that sink in.

    b) Espionage. You think we're free if gubmint spies on you warrantless? You don't know freedom then.

    c) Taxes. If you think slavery means giving 100% of your labor to others, at what percentage is it NOT slavery? We give at least 40% of our earnings to worthless members of society, especially CONGRESS. Politicians and corporatists are the largest welfare whores, and you think you're free?

    d) Permission and regulations. Have you ever tried to start a business? Have you ever tried to add something to your home? What do you need? Permission and regulations and fees. Americans back then didn't need any of this gubmint crap.

    e) Civil asset forfeiture. Cops can seize your assets for no reason. Cops in fact have been militarized. You should be scared of this. But no, you pretend to be free as long as the flag is waving and the magic song is playing.

    I can go on.. and on.. why you are not free.

    But let these ^^ sink in first. Then I will educate you some more.
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  24. #24
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LWW View Post
    NorwichGrad,

    Since your an Olympic lifter lets look that sport, the countries, and it's history.

    The best O lifters are from China, Bulgaria.....well just about every country besides the USA.

    At one time America stood toe to toe with Russian lifters, guys like Norb and Kono.

    Here's the beauty of America versus these communist lifters, the Americans trained alone, no coaching, had jobs etc.

    Russians, China Government all hand pick these lifters at a young age and house them in Government facilities feed them drugs and force them to train.......it's utter B.S way to live, I don't care how "great" they perform. Ironmind put out a vid of this, while everyone jerked off to these skinny kids lifting huge weights, I cringed because it was communist B.S.

    I don't know where I'm going with this, but What Happened? Americans got good at Strongman, but that is like a chit......well not even a "sport" compared to O'lifting.

    What the phuck am I talking about? Well people in this country can still "choose" strongman over O'lifting or football and fail without Government intervention, that tells me, we are still "free".

    Here. This is for you and your fellow statist congore. The Bill of Rights, all ten of them, have been hijacked by the communist manifesto courtesy of the gubmint you both worship!! Sad..

    You're welcome. If you still think you're free, you and congore are BEYOND HELP.

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    Interesting perspective, NG.

    If you were in charge, which federal agencies would you eliminate?

    Actually, after review, maybe list the ones you would keep and why. I assume that would be a shorter list.

    List of federal agencies in the United States
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    Originally Posted by ChazWood View Post
    Interesting perspective, NG.

    If you were in charge, which federal agencies would you eliminate?

    Actually, after review, maybe list the ones you would keep and why. I assume that would be a shorter list.

    List of federal agencies in the United States

    Don’t conflate governance with government.

    Many feel all the things you think government should do are things that can be served on the marketplace.

    A society needs law production, police protection, and dispute resolution courts to be stable. Many believe these things don’t necessarily need to be done by a government and all can be served competitively on the market.

    If you come to that conclusion, you become an ancap just like our friend NG.
    As you go the way of life, you will see a great chasm. Jump. It is not as wide as you think.
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  27. #27
    Registered User NorwichGrad's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ChazWood View Post
    Interesting perspective, NG.

    If you were in charge, which federal agencies would you eliminate?

    Actually, after review, maybe list the ones you would keep and why. I assume that would be a shorter list.

    List of federal agencies in the United States
    Excellent question!!

    I would keep the Department of the Navy at the feral gubmint level.

    Notice how I say navy and not army.

    We don't need a professional standing army. America can easily be defended with the militia. Who are the militia? Anybody with a penor 18 - 60 years of age.

    I am for strong DEFENSE, but NOT empire building.

    So why Navy? Cuz we need boats to protect the shore from sea to shining sea.

    Other than that, ELIMINATE ALL LEECHING agencies who do NOTHING but protect the criminal oligarchs at the expense of We the People.

    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    Don’t conflate governance with government.

    Many feel all the things you think government should do are things that can be served on the marketplace.

    A society needs law production, police protection, and dispute resolution courts to be stable. Many believe these things don’t necessarily need to be done by a government and all can be served competitively on the market.

    If you come to that conclusion, you become an ancap just like our friend NG.
    BINGO!!



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    Originally Posted by katya422 View Post
    So NorwichGrad what's your ZH username?

    Just curious. Haven't spent time on the Hedge in a long time...like years.
    Lol, was just thinking about what ZH was like the right about now. Man that place was blazing back in the day. Came from kitco, bought silver from $13/oz all the way up till it shot at $40. Couldn't believe it touched $48. Good times. Honestly wish I was able to get a monster box, even if spot dived it'd have been rad having it haha.
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    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by NorwichGrad View Post
    So you hate commies? GOOD! I hate them too.

    Here's the problem. You don't know freedom. If you think being able to choose a sport in America is a sign of freedom, you see the country from an extremely myopic standpoint.

    Let me explain why we are NOT as free as Americans back then:

    a) Prison. We represent 5% of the global population, yet 25% of global prisoners are Americans. Why? It's because politicians on both sides are addicted to criminalizing everything, especially victimless, non-violent crimes. You smoke a pot and you go to jail forever. Let that sink in.

    b) Espionage. You think we're free if gubmint spies on you warrantless? You don't know freedom then.

    c) Taxes. If you think slavery means giving 100% of your labor to others, at what percentage is it NOT slavery? We give at least 40% of our earnings to worthless members of society, especially CONGRESS. Politicians and corporatists are the largest welfare whores, and you think you're free?

    d) Permission and regulations. Have you ever tried to start a business? Have you ever tried to add something to your home? What do you need? Permission and regulations and fees. Americans back then didn't need any of this gubmint crap.

    e) Civil asset forfeiture. Cops can seize your assets for no reason. Cops in fact have been militarized. You should be scared of this. But no, you pretend to be free as long as the flag is waving and the magic song is playing.

    I can go on.. and on.. why you are not free.

    But let these ^^ sink in first. Then I will educate you some more.

    NorwichGrad,

    Lets say we lived in your perspective "free" society, much of what you are describing here is unfairness and corruption, which can also happen in your "free" society, meaning people are "free" to do you injustice. If you want to look at "strongest survive" fine, I don't need protection from anyone, I'll protect myself.

    One good point is taxes though, even a mountain man has to pay taxes which is complete B.S., no, that's not being free.

    Let's go back to your unfairness stuff like going to jail for smoking pot forever, I'd say "smoking" No, but if a poor person is involved in dealing and don't "play the game" which is capitalism than they will get longer sentence than those who "fork-up".

    So, capitalism kinda plays a hand in communism, money still rules in all societies, but communism and socialism like to use the "unfair", "equal" nonsense to play people, kinda like I explained in my first paragragh.

    Right now, I have so many pieces of this all in my head, I'm just having a tough time getting the pieces together.
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  30. #30
    Registered User LWW's Avatar
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    No offense on the pot smoking, if you wanna toke-up in your space that's ok, but I don't believe you'll be your best.

    Remember, well I wasn't alive in the vietnam era, but that draft was the poorest decision upon America and it was the Dems. JFK had a chance to not advance, however he did and it got worse with LBJ. So it was all those pot smoking acid burnout hippies who seemed to hate Nixon? But they didn't hate JFK?

    I'm sure Nixon had somethings cooking with that war, since he was around before JFK, but Nixon didn't get our boys killed, did he?

    again, I wasn't alive then?
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