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  1. #1
    Registered User Hutrapper's Avatar
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    Is a multivitamin essential?

    What is your opinion on multivitamins given a person eats clean?

    I have cut out processed foods, and eat just whole food. supplement with creatine, and a scoop of two of whey daily just to keep protein up. Macros are tracked through an app.


    I would assume eating mostly whole foods is better since you get more vitamins and minerals from food instead of a higher percentage of empty calories.

    Should I take one?
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    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    If you eat a variety of whole foods, including fruits and veggies several times a day, a multi-vitamin is not going to do anything. In fact, some vitamins can have some concern over over-dosing on fat soluble vitamins.
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    Registered User Hutrapper's Avatar
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    I wondered that.

    Thanks for the reply.
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    Originally Posted by Hutrapper View Post
    What is your opinion on multivitamins given a person eats clean?
    Eating clean doesn't matter. What matters is having enough vitamins, minerals and fiber in your food.

    The evidence on multivitamins is disappointing: it rarely shows a benefit. The evidence on fruit and vegetables is strong and consistent. Try to eat at least 500 grams per day and ±38 gram fiber per day.
    Recommended science based fitness & nutrition information:
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    Registered User Hutrapper's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Eating clean doesn't matter. What matters is having enough vitamins, minerals and fiber in your food.

    The evidence on multivitamins is disappointing: it rarely shows a benefit. The evidence on fruit and vegetables is strong and consistent. Try to eat at least 500 grams per day and ±38 gram fiber per day.
    Eating clean means eating whole foods such as fruits and vegetables and oess processed and junk food so you get more minerals vitamins and fiber. Eating empty calories means more calories and less nutrients. Or is my definition wrong?

    Isn't that what eating clean is? If I said heck with the veggies and fruit and ate dirty, I would need metamucil and a multi likely, no? I am curious then why you say eating clean doesn't matter, when in this context it appears it would negate or certainly lessen the need for fiber and multivitamin?
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    Originally Posted by Hutrapper View Post
    What is your opinion on multivitamins given a person eats clean?
    If you eat a balanced variety of whole foods, you can get all your nutrients from them and don't need a multivitamin. There are articles out there that say taking a multivitamin a day is actually bad for you. I don't fully agree, but it certainly isn't necessary.
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    Originally Posted by Hutrapper View Post
    Eating clean means eating whole foods such as fruits and vegetables and oess processed and junk food so you get more minerals vitamins and fiber. Eating empty calories means more calories and less nutrients. Or is my definition wrong?
    Well that's the first part: there's no objective definition of eating clean.

    But let's say we define it as eating only minimally processed foods. There's nothing inherently wrong with eating some processed foods as long as one gets sufficient macros, micros and fiber.

    Or another way to look at it: a totally clean diet can lack several vitamins and minerals and can contain too much saturated fats. Eating clean does not make a diet healthy by itself.

    Some processed foods can be a healthy addition to a diet. Think of certain breakfast cereals that contain extra fiber and vitamins. Those would be a good addition if someone's lacking those.

    Processed foods can come in all sorts of categories. Some can be a healthy addition, some are not healthy at all (think industrial trans fats for example).
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    Originally Posted by Hutrapper View Post
    Isn't that what eating clean is?
    Pizza is cheese, meat, veggies, tomato sauce and bread. Is that clean?

    A cheeseburger is meat/beef, cheese, tomato, lettuce, and (maybe) a whole grain bun. Clean or no?

    Unfortunately some people think they have to stick with only chicken, (maybe rice), and broccoli. ;-)
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    ☦Русский ישראלי✡️ LubitelPelmen's Avatar
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    lol at people who think you can get all the essential vitamins and minerals you need for the day all just with the right diet.
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    team ketchup AdamWW's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LubitelPelmen View Post
    lol at people who think you can get all the essential vitamins and minerals you need for the day all just with the right diet.
    LOL at people who think you need supplements to get all your nutrition in. What do you think people did before the age of supplements? Just died off?
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    ☦Русский ישראלי✡️ LubitelPelmen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    LOL at people who think you need supplements to get all your nutrition in. What do you think people did before the age of supplements? Just died off?
    theres also a mid way buddy. neither should you never take them but also not every day.
    my point was that these days, in the western societies (by which i mostly mean west europe and usa) its almost impossible to get all of it through foods from the local stores, except if you have the money to spend it all on this biological shi
    is it worth it?
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Well that's the first part: there's no objective definition of eating clean.

    But let's say we define it as eating only minimally processed foods. There's nothing inherently wrong with eating some processed foods as long as one gets sufficient macros, micros and fiber.

    Or another way to look at it: a totally clean diet can lack several vitamins and minerals and can contain too much saturated fats. Eating clean does not make a diet healthy by itself.

    Some processed foods can be a healthy addition to a diet. Think of certain breakfast cereals that contain extra fiber and vitamins. Those would be a good addition if someone's lacking those.

    Processed foods can come in all sorts of categories. Some can be a healthy addition, some are not healthy at all (think industrial trans fats for example).
    Reasonable points
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    Originally Posted by LubitelPelmen View Post
    theres also a mid way buddy. neither should you never take them but also not every day.
    my point was that these days, in the western societies (by which i mostly mean west europe and usa) its almost impossible to get all of it through foods from the local stores, except if you have the money to spend it all on this biological shi
    is it worth it?
    What are you talking about?

    Go to cronometer and enter:

    100g spinach
    300 potatoes
    2 cups broccoli
    50g kale
    2 eggs
    2 slices of wheat bread
    1 cup oatmeal
    2 tablespoon of peanut butter
    4oz chicken
    1 banana
    1 cup blueberries


    That's only 1600 calories of 100% whole foods and I already hit all targets for Micros AND it has 35g of fiber...

    If you add more protein (which I imagine you would) and more fats (which I imagine you would), you'd be well over all the needs.
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    ...
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    I get the point about pizza, however every article ever written on refined sugar seems to have an ulterior motive. Nutrients aside, for the sake of simply counting macros, a gram of pure white sugar counts as a gram of carbohydrate. Equals 4 calories. There is a pile of refined sugar (apparently according to lots of articles) in pizza. Also, crap loads of grease. Two things that are not considered "clean". The body runs on sugar, but is getting your carbs from pizza as good for you as getting your carbs from broccoli, or bok choy, or any other veggie...? I would say that due to the fact that pizza is very calorie dense and nutrient deficient, I would say Pizza is certainly not a "clean choice".

    Now go back to my original question and compare pizza to that. Sure, if I ate 4 pieces (or whatever the calories work out to) of pizza a day, I could lose weight based strictly on calories. But would I get all the proper nutrients? Definitely not. Eating just pizza is a silly example, but I think you get my point.

    I would argue that eating nutrient dense foods, and forgoing the dirty foods, you would get a lot closer to your vitamins and mineral needs that eating "dirty" foods.

    Now, does one get "enough", who knows. Who knows what "enough" is?...Anyone know of any studies that address this?
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    Originally Posted by LubitelPelmen View Post
    lol at people who think you can get all the essential vitamins and minerals you need for the day all just with the right diet.
    So...why not?

    Adam proves this incorrect below if you believe the app (no reason not to)
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    Registered User paulinkansas's Avatar
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    There is a difference between carbs. You have simple carbs like sugar, and complex carbs like pasta and grains. IIRC the simple carbs cause an insulin spike, while the complex carbs take longer to release their energy and there is no insulin spike. I'm sure someone on here can enlighten us further.
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    For as long as you eat healthy food then it is fine not to take any multivitamins.
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    Protein bar nightcap? desslok's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LubitelPelmen View Post
    my point was that these days, in the western societies (by which i mostly mean west europe and usa) its almost impossible to get all of it through foods from the local stores, except if you have the money to spend it all on this biological shi
    is it worth it?
    You have to go to grocery stores, not just liquor stores. Really easy to get this from grocery stores.
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    Originally Posted by LubitelPelmen View Post
    my point was that these days, in the western societies (by which i mostly mean west europe and usa) its almost impossible to get all of it through foods from the local stores,
    Not really. And keep in mind that you don't need to hit 100% of everything every day. For example: If you get 130% magnesium one day and 70% the next, you're still fine.

    except if you have the money to spend it all on this biological shi
    The majority of studies finds negligible differences between organic and non organic food in vitamin and mineral content.
    https://annals.org/aim/article-abstr...tematic-review
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    In defense of vitamins and “clean eating”


    A mod on here Emma Ley? Apparently a peer reviewed published researcher and all, posted on this forum that she’d eat organic non GMO stuff since she isn’t convinced that various things used and added to our food are safe.

    I ran an experiment on myself, putting everything into nutrition data website to see if I hit 100% recommended values for various vitamins and so on. Even thou I ate 3000 calories daily and had no food restriction I did not hit even close to 100% on magnesium, Vitamin D and a few others on ANY of the days. I even made it a point to eat more of the foods high in those, but still failed to meet 100% or anywhere remotely close to 100%

    The positive effects on my skin, dandruff, satiety, pooping etc. when I take a raw probiotic (50 billion 34 strains) can not be in doubt. The difference is clear.

    With a multi I did notice that I don’t get sick, before that I used to get colds all the time, every few weeks.

    When people refer to food like pizza as junk food they don’t mean tomatoes are not clean, they mean a slice can be 700 calories, thou most people don’t know this and assume it’s a lot less, that splice will provide lots of gluten and dairy, and very little protein. And there are many people who are not good with dairy, and they don’t eat enough protein. Thus the label of junk food. When people say burgers are garbage it’s similar, you got tons of sat fat, gluten, dairy, ground beef with stuff added to it, you fart all day from it, you get even more hungry after eating it, and you got too little protein from it. The ingredient list for that bun reads like a chemistry textbook at times. So...
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    Originally Posted by kusok View Post
    I ran an experiment on myself, putting everything into nutrition data website to see if I hit 100% recommended values for various vitamins and so on. Even thou I ate 3000 calories daily and had no food restriction I did not hit even close to 100% on magnesium, Vitamin D and a few others on ANY of the days. I even made it a point to eat more of the foods high in those, but still failed to meet 100% or anywhere remotely close to 100%
    What that shows is you need to make some simple changes to your diet.

    For example: eating fatty fish will easily make you reach vitamin d. For magnesium add some nuts, spinach and sunflower seeds.

    Vitamins and minerals from multivitamins are often poorly absorbed. Multivitamins generally don't contain enough magnesium and often the cheapest form that's poorly absorbed.
    Last edited by Mrpb; 07-26-2019 at 12:19 AM.
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    What that shows is you need to make some simple changes to your diet.

    For example: eating fatty fish will easily make you reach vitamin d. For magnesium add some nuts, spinach and sunflower seeds.

    Vitamins and minerals from multivitamins are often poorly absorbed. Multivitamins generally don't contain enough magnesium and often the cheapest form that's poorly absorbed.



    I have zproblem hitting vitamin D or magnesium.
    Ok, but it’s not that simple. Nuts give me red face spots, as do seeds. I’m not a big fan of fatty fish and spinach. I do take additional magnesium. Another interesting point is that many years ago I had some hand pain, I’m a musician, and perhaps I was doing too much, magnesium was suggested to me by a more experienced musician, I remember that it seemed to help. Certainly I dont know, but it seemed that way.

    Also, I go for whole food based vitamins, which at least claim to be better absorbed. Idk.. it’s like Alan and Lyle say, maybe just as a way to prevent possible deficiencies.
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    ☦Русский ישראלי✡️ LubitelPelmen's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Not really. And keep in mind that you don't need to hit 100% of everything every day. For example: If you get 130% magnesium one day and 70% the next, you're still fine
    daar geef ik je wel gelijk in
    en in het 2e wat je zei zat ook een kern van waarheid in, maar is ook nog geen zekerheid over.

    Originally Posted by AdamWW View Post
    What are you talking about?

    Go to cronometer and enter:

    100g spinach
    300 potatoes
    2 cups broccoli
    50g kale
    2 eggs
    2 slices of wheat bread
    1 cup oatmeal
    2 tablespoon of peanut butter
    4oz chicken
    1 banana
    1 cup blueberries


    That's only 1600 calories of 100% whole foods and I already hit all targets for Micros AND it has 35g of fiber...

    If you add more protein (which I imagine you would) and more fats (which I imagine you would), you'd be well over all the needs.
    ehh can you even read clearly? who said i dont agree with that? i know its possible, but as i said; hardly. most people with busy lifes etc. dont have the time/motivation to stick to the right diet.
    a multivitamin once in a while wont do that much harm imo... no need to make such a big deal out of it.
    [Flora&FaunaLoverPhag crew]
    [teddies are superior to buns crew]
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    Manlets gonna make it Natty1980's Avatar
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    I have been on and off, never noticed the slight difference.
    I am more concerned in eating a lot of vegetables at lunch and dinner.
    Protein intake must be calculated on lean body mass, not on body weight
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    Originally Posted by kusok View Post
    Ok, but it’s not that simple. Nuts give me red face spots, as do seeds. I’m not a big fan of fatty fish and spinach.
    There are many other foods that contain magnesium.

    But it's not impossible that someone who excludes all sorts of foods may need to supplement.

    Originally Posted by kusok View Post
    A mod on here Emma Ley? Apparently a peer reviewed published researcher and all, posted on this forum that she’d eat organic non GMO stuff since she isn’t convinced that various things used and added to our food are safe.
    Fast forward another decade and it's been shown repeatedly that GMOs are safe and organic fruit and vegetables aren't significantly more nutritious than non organic.

    But good to keep in mind that one particular batch of organic grapes can contain too much toxins, while a non organic batch of grapes can be entirely without, and vice versa. It depends on many factors. Buying organic isn't a guarantee of some sort.

    Originally Posted by kusok View Post
    The positive effects on my skin, dandruff, satiety, pooping etc. when I take a raw probiotic (50 billion 34 strains) can not be in doubt. The difference is clear.
    That reminds me of this new study: a paleo type diet may not be optimal for gut health.

    Design
    In a cross-sectional design, long-term (n = 44, > 1 year) self-reported followers of a Paleolithic diet (PD) and controls (n = 47) consuming a diet typical of national recommendations were recruited. Diets were assessed via 3-day weighed diet records; 48-h stool for short chain fatty acids using GC/MS, microbial composition via 16S rRNA sequencing of the V4 region using Illumina MiSeq. TMAO was quantified using LC–MS/MS.

    Results
    Participants were grouped according to PD adherence; namely excluding grains and dairy products. Strict Paleolithic (SP) (n = 22) and Pseudo-Paleolithic (PP) (n = 22) groups were formed. General linear modelling with age, gender, energy intake and body fat percentage as covariates assessed differences between groups. Intake of resistant starch was lower in both Paleolithic groups, compared to controls [2.62, 1.26 vs 4.48 g/day (P < 0.05)]; PERMANOVA analysis showed differences in microbiota composition (P < 0.05), with higher abundance of TMA-producer Hungatella in both Paleolithic groups (P < 0.001). TMAO was higher in SP compared to PP and control (P < 0.01), and inversely associated with whole grain intake (r = − 0.34, P < 0.01).

    Conclusions
    Although the PD is promoted for improved gut health, results indicate long-term adherence is associated with different gut microbiota and increased TMAO. A variety of fiber components, including whole grain sources may be required to maintain gut and cardiovascular health.
    https://link.springer.com/article/10...94-019-02036-y
    Last edited by Mrpb; 07-25-2019 at 05:38 AM.
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    Unless it is proven with a lab test that you have a vitamin deficiency , multivitamin supplements will not provide any benefit.
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