Skinny Fat, bulk or cut?

[waynelu1]

Hi, I’m 16 and new to going to the gym, and I’ve been trying to eat good lately as well. As for my body shape I am confused as if I should bulk or cut first. I’ve heard bulking would make me even more fatter, cutting wouldn’t be great as I should take advantage of “newbie gains”. I’m really confused as to what I should do. I go to the gym 5 times a week.

[Kpissoutbye]

The boring answer is: don't cut or bulk. Eat a solid breakfast, lunch and dinner. Make sure to include some source of protein in each meal. Eat until you're full. Maybe add some fruit or smaller meal here and there if you're hungry. If you want to have pizza with your friends on Friday or some fast food here and there, that's completely fine. But base your diet on "real food" like, chicken, beef, fish, rice, potatoes, pasta, lentils, beans, milk, cheese, nuts, fruits and vegetables etc.

The more important part is your training. Honestly, from my experience, 5 days/week is overkill. Especially for a beginner. I would recommend full body 3x/week. Something like Fierce 5 (search "fierce 5 bodybuilding" on google, it should be the first hit. It's here on this forum). The goal is to stimulate growth, and then rest to allow for muscle growth. #1 beginner mistake is doing too much. Building a good physique takes time, and you can't rush it. The only thing that happens when you try to rush it is that it takes even more time.

[asianboy23]

you're 16....don't worry about cutting especially with your figure atm

just eat normally or a slight caloric surplus

main focus is your workout routine and making sure you are giving it you're all

[waynelu1]

The boring answer is: don't cut or bulk. Eat a solid breakfast, lunch and dinner. Make sure to include some source of protein in each meal. Eat until you're full. Maybe add some fruit or smaller meal here and there if you're hungry. If you want to have pizza with your friends on Friday or some fast food here and there, that's completely fine. But base your diet on "real food" like, chicken, beef, fish, rice, potatoes, pasta, lentils, beans, milk, cheese, nuts, fruits and vegetables etc.

The more important part is your training. Honestly, from my experience, 5 days/week is overkill. Especially for a beginner. I would recommend full body 3x/week. Something like Fierce 5 (search "fierce 5 bodybuilding" on google, it should be the first hit. It's here on this forum). The goal is to stimulate growth, and then rest to allow for muscle growth. #1 beginner mistake is doing too much. Building a good physique takes time, and you can't rush it. The only thing that happens when you try to rush it is that it takes even more time.

Thank you so much for the response. The thing is I'm trying to lose the fat. I look fine in T-Shirts and clothes, but without one I don't feel confident. By doing what you told me, 3x/week and "real food", would the fat slowly come off and muscle definition eventually come? My main goal is to remove the belly fat and gain some muscle definition.

[Kpissoutbye]

Yes, if you stay consistent. Confidence will come as you progress in the gym as well, no doubt. Give this a good 6-8 months and see where you find yourself before next summer. This program that I mentioned has a big focus on getting stronger over time, which is what you want to focus on. The thread that you find this program on also has a FAQ including pretty much any question you might have about it. If by April next year you find that you would try to go on a short 6-8 week diet to get extra lean for the summer, you could do that. But at that point you will also have better understanding of your body and also some muscle mass to make it worth cutting in the first place. By next summer, if you follow this program and eat well, you might also find yourself approaching the early intermediate state. The Fierce 5 author has some suggestions on intermediate programs, but ride the wave of noob gains as long as you can. Train hard, rest and make some gains.

[Rodrigues97]

Hi, I’m 16 and new to going to the gym, and I’ve been trying to eat good lately as well. As for my body shape I am confused as if I should bulk or cut first. I’ve heard bulking would make me even more fatter, cutting wouldn’t be great as I should take advantage of “newbie gains”. I’m really confused as to what I should do. I go to the gym 5 times a week.

Bulk first. You don't have enough muscle to burn off fat efficiently yet.

[waynelu1]

Thank you again for making me feel welcomed and answering my questions. I’m going to try to follow the program, however is there anything else I can do besides a deadlift? I may switch to LA fitness in the future, but as of now I go to planet fitness and PF doesn’t have any way to deadlift besides the smith machine. That machine would be too loud though, and it would probably set of the lunk alarm. Is there a substitute for this?

Another thing is, according to the calorie calculator on this website my daily calories should be around 2200 to maintain my weight, I know some have told me not to count my calories but I find It easier to maintain when I do count my calories, so if I wish to grow lean muscle and not become too fat after how many calories should I aim for? (I’m 16, 5’7, 155lb and moderately active)

[Kpissoutbye]

I was hesitant if I should post this or not, because I didn't want to introduce unnecessary confusion, but fk it. I don't quite agree with the progression scheme of most beginner programs. From my experience, they overestimate the rate of gains of beginners, and always have too much of an obsession with squats. If you want to be a great squatter, that's fine, but for bodybuilding purposes it's not necessarily better. Below is a full body program that I would run, comprised of exercises that I have found great as well as a way of progression that gets you excited for every workout. Also, you get to end each workout with a solid upper body/arm pump, which gets you motivated to come back for another workout.

Keep in mind though that I have only coached one other person than myself. He did make good gains though, following a similar program with the same design philosophy. The biggest difference between my program and the most common beginner programs is the way of progression. I think it's better to base it off of your own performance, rather than increasing the weights every time regardless. What I found on most beginner programs is that usually you start out very light, not providing much stimulus and then after a couple of weeks all of a sudden the weight gets too heavy and you can't even get the prescribed amount of sets and reps. Anyway, whichever program you choose, if you're making progress do not mess with it. Stay consistent. If you're getting stronger on the same lift, in the same rep range over time (getting more reps or adding more weight), you are getting bigger.

Full Body 3x/week:

Monday:
Deadlift
Standing Calf Raises
Incline Dumbbell Press
Cable Rows
Cable Flys
Bent-Over Lateral Raises

Wednesday:
Bench Press
Barbell Rows
Leg Extensions
Hamstring Curls
Bicep Curls
Tricep Extensions

Friday:
Squat
Standing Calf Raises
Dumbbell Shoulder Press
Pull Ups OR Pull Downs
Machine Chest Press
Lateral Raises

Do 2 sets of every exercise. Aim to get between 8-10 reps on your first set. Track your progress (weight and reps on your 1st set). Lower the weight on the 2nd set by ~10% compared to the 1st set. Try to stop one repetition shy of failure on every lift, on every set. If you're unsure whether you can get another rep on squats or bench press, and you don't have a spotter/safety rack, go ahead and rack the weight. Don't risk injury, you will still make gains stopping a little "too early". Whenever you hit 10 reps on your first set with good form, increase weight next time. Remember good form, you want to challenge the muscle, not throw weights around. The muscles don't care about what's on the bar, they only feel the tension that you put on them. You don't have to lift super slowly, but you must have control of the weights throughout the whole range of motion on the exercises.

Warm up until you're warm basically. Get a couple of sets in with lighter weights far from failure, until you feel that you're ready to hit your first "real" set. Usually you need a little bit more warming up for the first exercise of each workout, both because they are heavier compound movements, and because they are the first exercise. 2-4 sets usually, depending on how heavy you lift. For the rest of the exercises, 1-2 sets is enough, just to get you ready for the movements.

You can superset exercises if you want and they're laid out so it is easy to do so. 3rd and 4th exercise each day go together, and 5th and 6th as well. Don't superset the 1st and 2nd exercises (technically you could superset bench press with barbell rows on Wednesdays, but the hassle of loading and unloading the bar and moving the bench etc. is not worth it imo). In general, if you decide to superset, just make sure you rest at least enough to catch your breath properly. There is likely no downside to supersetting, and it can significantly shorten your workout time, which is of course useful if you're pressed on time.

If you miss a workout, you can do it the following day instead. Then push the other remaining workouts of the week one day further as well, so you still get one day of rest between workouts. Example: Miss workout on Wednesday -> Do Wednesday's workout on Thursday, and Fridays workout on Saturday. Continue on Monday as usual. Most of the time, with some decent planning, you should be able to get your workouts in on the correct days. The workouts are not that long, probably around 45 min depending on how much warmup and rest between sets you need. And even shorter if you utilize supersets.

If you stall out (meaning that you cannot increase reps on most or any of your exercises for two weeks in a row) skip one workout completely and resume as usual. This assumes your diet hasn't gone to complete chit, because then you won't make progress no matter what program you run. Diet doesn't need to be perfect, but you should get your meals in the majority of the time. If you're still stalled out, it may be time to look for a more advanced program. But at this point, you should have made some significant progress.

Bro tip: standing calf raises can usually be done in most leg press machines, if you don't have a standing calf raise machine in your gym.

Train hard, eat, sleep, repeat.

[Kpissoutbye]

Thank you again for making me feel welcomed and answering my questions. I’m going to try to follow the program, however is there anything else I can do besides a deadlift? I may switch to LA fitness in the future, but as of now I go to planet fitness and PF doesn’t have any way to deadlift besides the smith machine. That machine would be too loud though, and it would probably set of the lunk alarm. Is there a substitute for this?

You can do deadlifts with dumbbells. You can also do back extensions and focus on contracting your back, glutes and hamstrings on every rep. Does planet fitness really don't have a single barbell though? If you deadlift while controlling the weights, you won't make too much noise, especially now that you're not lifting that much weight yet. The advantage of barbell deadlifts is that they are very straight forward to perform, undoubtedly puts a good stimulus on your core and back and is easy to add weight on, which is motivating.

Another thing is, according to the calorie calculator on this website my daily calories should be around 2200 to maintain my weight, I know some have told me not to count my calories but I find It easier to maintain when I do count my calories, so if I wish to grow lean muscle and not become too fat after how many calories should I aim for? (I’m 16, 5’7, 155lb and moderately active)

Online calorie calculators are garbage and useless. If you really want to count your calories, the way you go about it is this: Pick arbitrary amount of calories, let's say 2500. Get somewhere between 0.8-1g of protein per lbs of body weight. What you do with fats and carbs doesn't really matter as long as you don't go overboard with any of them. Carbs usually ends up higher if you eat a variety of whole foods. Currently my carbs are about 3.5x the amount of fat in grams, just as an example. Now, what you do is you weigh yourself every morning after you go to the bathroom and write down your weight. You keep eating 2500 kcal for 2 weeks and look at the numbers. Are they on average getting lower, getting higher or hovering around the same number? And there is your answer. Keep in mind that you won't be burning the same amount of energy everyday obviously, and you won't be matching that exactly with food intake if you're trying to maintain for example. It's about looking at trends over time. And just for some perspective, I'm currently cutting hard on 3000 kcal/day, and I'm 25. I feel like those calculators always underestimate grossly, especially for younger men. I would start with at least 2500 kcal in your case.

[waynelu1]

Im going to try to stay consistent and work on the program you provided me.

I have one more question. If I do choose to cut rather than bulk what 10% calorie deficient should I do, and (sorry if you already answered this question) would cutting dramatically limit my newbie gains? I heard that the physiological aspect of cutting on newbie gains can be used as motivation, as I will lose more body fat and notice more muscle, therefore motivating me to bulk and work even harder. I know you said to not bulk or cut, but seeing that I can lose a good amount of fat and build good muscle sounds too good to be true. I’m just worried about wasting my newbie gains due to a slight calorie deficit. I may be over thinking this, but I’m just trying to get as much muscle while lose as much fat as possible.

However videos on YouTube such as scotthermanfitness’ video about being skinny fat says I should just use a slight surplus and gain as much muscle as I can in this year. He says the reason skinny fat looks fat is due to imbalances in muscle to fat ratio. He suggests lean bulk for anyone above 18% BF, but I estimate I have 25%. So I should be fine if I lean bulk right? I’m lost as to what I do. Like I said earlier I’m probably overthinking this, I’m just not trying to become even fatter than I am.

[Kpissoutbye]

Cool, feel free to send a PM if you have any further questions about the program.

Regarding eating according to your hunger signals and not worrying about cutting or bulking: I guarantee you, once you start making progress in the gym, you will feel better and pretty soon start noticing a positive change in body composition. As long as you're not consciously stuffing yourself with food, you are not gonna get fatter. How about you give a solid 3-4 weeks of this and re-evaluate? You're right, it can be motivating to start seeing your abs quicker etc. But it's also motivating to get stronger, and both will have a positive impact on your appearance. If you are still set on cutting this is how you do it:

To cut you set up your target calories. Nobody can tell you what that is, so you have to make a guess. Probably start somewhere around 2500 kcal depending on your activity level. Use the same number on gym-days and off-days. A good idea is to make 2-4 days of planned meals, and just choose one of those each day. That way you don't have to think about what you're gonna eat every day, you just follow your plan. Every meal should have some protein in it. It's not very important how many meals you get, and when you have them. Make a plan that you can realistically follow. Weigh yourself every morning after bathroom, write down the number and look at weight over time. Keep in mind, weight fluctuates from day to day, don't stress about it. You can safely lose 0.5-1 % of body weight per week on average. In the beginning, usually you lose a little faster, that's fine. If you're losing slower than this, you can try reducing food intake a little. If you're losing faster, go by feel. If you're feeling fine, you're good, but if you're feeling really tired go ahead and increase calories a little. Only change amount of calories maximum 1 time/week or you'll never know what's going on. Sometimes the best change is no change, but that comes with experience. Set up a target weight or time, or you risk either cutting forever or quitting prematurely. 8-12 weeks is usually a good time frame to get in good shape unless you're severly overweight (you're not). On your rest days, do at least one physical activity. This can be anything from taking a 30-60 min walk, running, going around town with your friends, just whatever doesn't have you sitting on your butt the whole day. This is something you should do regardless if you're cutting or not.

About wasting your noobie gains: My guess it's most likely a matter of how far you are from the "maximum" amount of muscle your body can sustain. Could you get a little more resistant to the stimulus over time, even if you're not building a lot of muscle, thus "wasting" noobie gains. Possibly, but I don't think it would be significant enough to not be easily off-set with a 1 week break or smth.

[waynelu1]

Hi, I’m not sure how to PM you this question, yesterday I forgot to bring my phone so I didn’t have any workouts so I just did a upper body workout. After the barbell bicep curls my arms where dead, they felt weak and floppy, however waking up I didn’t feel any soreness. I used the weight that I was able to lift for 6-8 reps, I did like 3-4 sets I think. When doing the bicep curls I felt it a lot on in my forearms for some reason, I don’t know if that has to do anything. Was my workout not good if I’m not sore?

[Kpissoutbye]

Hi, I’m not sure how to PM you this question, yesterday I forgot to bring my phone so I didn’t have any workouts so I just did a upper body workout. After the barbell bicep curls my arms where dead, they felt weak and floppy, however waking up I didn’t feel any soreness. I used the weight that I was able to lift for 6-8 reps, I did like 3-4 sets I think. When doing the bicep curls I felt it a lot on in my forearms for some reason, I don’t know if that has to do anything. Was my workout not good if I’m not sore?

Scroll up to the top of the page. In the blue bar there is a tab that says "Private Messages".

Don't worry about what you're feeling atm, just follow the program. More reps or more weight from one workout to the next -> success. If your forearms hurt in a bad way, try using dumbbells. If they still hurt, do hammer curls with dumbbells. Anyway, as I said, if you want to try the full body program, feel free to PM progression in squat, deadlift, bench and pull ups/pull downs.