Keto adaptation, keto 'flu', first days on keto

[ketologs420]

Just wanted to make a log to document how I feel on my transition to Ketosis.
I will record macros and rate (1-5) mood, cravings, sleep and mental clarity. This is my 2nd time so this might differ from first timers.
I know the first time I did this, it helped me to read other peoples logs to compare to my progress, macros, etc.. so here it goes.

I started Keto diet on July 9th with scale moving around 205-208lbs and 27-30% fat.
This leaves me at around 140-145lbs lean body mass. I am currently able to do 6-8 dips and 2-3 pull-ups.
Measurements: Neck =15.4in Waist=39.25in Hips=40.85in

I am setting my target calories at 1800 to start.
55-60% fat 100-120g
30-35% protein 135-155g
5-10% carbs 30-50g

My job now is remote CRM, so I am not as active as my first time.
Training now is Calisthenics workout (4 days a week) with 10-15min daily bike cardio at 60-65% max heart rate.
I am barely in week 2 of the program so still getting back into it.


Note: I have done Keto before for a long period where I got down to ~180lbs with ~12-15%bf n about 12 weeks. Starting at around 25-30%bf. I forgot my starting weight at the time.
I will post pics of my 12 weeks transformation from Sep-Dec 2014.
This was around Sep 2014 so my body might not suffer much of the Keto 'flu' and really want to see how fast I feel the benefits from Ketosis.
My job was valet parking, so I was a lot more active than I am now. My training was mainly weight-lifting.
Unfortunately, I suffered from back, neck and shoulder injury that resulted in 2 herniated discs in my low back and 2 in my neck.
I was advised to stop lifting and got demotivated to keep working out with all the pain, meds and treatment I was getting.
This led me to a path to depression that lasted and am currently battling. Hoping this log and keto helps with that.

[ketologs420]

Day 1: Ratings

Mood:2
Not too excited to think I wont be munching on candies and sweats till my stomach is full.
Let alone touch candy, cookies, ice cream, sweet bread etc.
Feel a little easily irritated and somewhat tired.
However, I don't feel completely bummed out about the idea. Have already conviced myself I need to do this.

Cravings: 2
My instinct yells at me to grab the cookies in the table or grab a piece of bread or rice for my meal.
Just thinking about eating but not doing it makes me feel weird and fires weird signals in my brain.
On the other hand, I know these cravings don't last long being this bad and it will pass.

Sleep: 1
I got a bad case of insomnia, I don't remember getting this the first time I did Keto. Maybe I blocked it from my memory.
Upon laying down for a while and not being able to sleep, I start googling if this is normal on keto and to y surprise it is.
I was not able to sleep until 11:30am and only slept for about 2 hours. Slept again from 6pm-930pm and am writing this now at 5am after the second day of the diet.
Mental clarity:2
I was feeling the fog I normally feel on a high Carb diet start to clear away but it is not necessarily a good feeling as you are comfortable in the mental fog and it feels a little uncomfortable adjusting to the new mental clarity.
It feels like it will get better soon and this might be whats causing my insomnia and not being able to sleep.
Without being on Keto and just eating ****ty food randomly, I would constantly get sleepy and will always be taking maps and always feel tired.
I would not go to sleep early but rarely past 2:30 am and I would take long naps during the day.
First day on keto and I barely slept and when I got up, it did not take forever to feel awake.

Total Calories: ~1500
Fat:79g (need to get it higher)
Protein: 148g (right on point)
Carbs: 86g -36g fiber= 50
Meal 1:
4 whole eggs
Coffee with 1teaspoon cannabutter and 1 scoop of whey protein

Meal 2:
Beef Broccolli
Chocolate chip Qeust bar
Nutyzo & seeds butter 2tbps

Meal 3:
.3 Hass Avocado
4 oz Stir fry meat only
Lentil soup
1oz of salvadorean cheese
Coffee with cannabutter and whey protein

[kennycroxdale]

Total Calories: ~1500
Fat:79g (need to get it higher)
Protein: 148g (right on point)
Carbs: 86g -36g fiber= 50
Meal 1:
4 whole eggs
Coffee with 1teaspoon cannabutter and 1 scoop of whey protein

Meal 2:
Beef Broccolli
Chocolate chip Qeust bar
Nutyzo & seeds butter 2tbps

Meal 3:
.3 Hass Avocado
4 oz Stir fry meat only
Lentil soup
1oz of salvadorean cheese
Coffee with cannabutter and whey protein

Protein: 148 gram is too high. 148 gram means it 39% of your macros. You need to keep it under at 30% or less.

Also,based on your meals, I don't see how it add up to 148 gram for he day.

Fat: Yes, you need to get it up. It need to be around 65% or more of you macros; 79 gram is around 48%.

As with anything new, there is a learning curve.

Kenny Croxdale

[Mrpb]

He weighs 200 pounds. 150 gram protein is totally fine. The percentage is not what matters.

[ketologs420]

Protein: 148 gram is too high. 148 gram means it 39% of your macros. You need to keep it under at 30% or less.

Also,based on your meals, I don't see how it add up to 148 gram for he day.

Fat: Yes, you need to get it up. It need to be around 65% or more of you macros; 79 gram is around 48%.

As with anything new, there is a learning curve.

Kenny Croxdale

Thanks for your feedback.
I will get it up to 60% but not to 65%. I am still getting back to it so I am getting used to eating enough fat haha, kind of hard.

[ketologs420]

He weighs 200 pounds. 150 gram protein is totally fine. The percentage is not what matters.

That's right! Want some protein, just don't want to over do it either. I will try to stay within that range 135-155 depending on how active I am on that day.

[ketologs420]

I am trying to post but its not letting me for some reason. I will try agian later

[Mrpb]

That's right! Want some protein, just don't want to over do it either. I will try to stay within that range 135-155 depending on how active I am on that day.

Looking at your body composition I would not go below 150 gram on any day. That's just 0.75 gram protein per lb, that's not even high protein.

And keep in mind that when you're less active you you don't need less protein: this is because activity increases MPS.

[ketologs420]

Looking at your body composition I would not go below 150 gram on any day. That's just 0.75 gram protein per lb, that's not even high protein.

And keep in mind that when you're less active you you don't need less protein: this is because activity increases MPS.

Thanks I will take that into account. I might get a little low on protein just to start (maybe 1-2 weeks) then I plan on getting my protein up.
From the studies I have read, most seem to state the most the body is able to process is about .7-1.1lbs per LEAN body lb.

[Mrpb]

From the studies I have read, most seem to state the most the body is able to process is about .7-1.1lbs per LEAN body lb.

Not sure what studies you've been reading but that's plain wrong. The body can process a lot more.

"Given that the CI of this estimate spanned from 1.03 to 2.20, it may be prudent to recommend ~2.2 g protein/kg/d for those seeking to maximise resistance training-induced gains in FFM."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5867436/

[boo99]

Not sure what studies you've been reading but that's plain wrong. The body can process a lot more.

"Given that the CI of this estimate spanned from 1.03 to 2.20, it may be prudent to recommend ~2.2 g protein/kg/d for those seeking to maximise resistance training-induced gains in FFM."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5867436/

Such a good read that I had misplaced. Thanks.

Questions....

When the effect of protein supplementation on changes in FFM was evaluated with age stratified into two subgroups the difference between old (>45; 67±7 years; MD: 0.06 (-0.14, 0.26)) and young (<45; 24±4 years; MD: 0.55 (0.30, 0.81)) participants remained significant (χ2=8.71, I2=89%, p=0.003).

Protein supplementation is more effective at improving FFM in young or resistance-trained individuals than in older or untrained individuals.

We discussed the need for older lifters and protein needs which I'm still confused after re reading this.

They go on to confirm, yes age screws with the efficiency of MPS but mention no recommendations here for older lifters= my confusion is about if they say that at a certain amount of protein, going higher will not increase mass but what about if older lifters consume more, does that cutoff point still apply?

Either way, I still consume more than the younger lifters do since I'm older but this study has me questioning that amount

[Mrpb]

Such a good read that I had misplaced. Thanks.

Questions....



We discussed the need for older lifters and protein needs which I'm still confused after re reading this.

They go on to confirm, yes age screws with the efficiency of MPS but mention no recommendations here for older lifters= my confusion is about if they say that at a certain amount of protein, going higher will not increase mass but what about if older lifters consume more, does that cutoff point still apply?

Either way, I still consume more than the younger lifters do since I'm older but this study has me questioning that amount

Just noticed your question now. From what I remember this study did not find that older people need more protein.

Practical implication: consume 0.7 to 1.0 gram protein per lb per day. Or more if you like.

[boo99]

Just noticed your question now. From what I remember this study did not find that older people need more protein.

Practical implication: consume 0.7 to 1.0 gram protein per lb per day. Or more if you like.

No problem

They confirm MPS is flawed in older lifters but make no recommendations if this flaw will bring MPS to a response that of a 22 yo

That's what is baffling to me...

Dietary protein supplementation during RET is more effective at increasing changes in FFM in resistance-trained individuals (0.75 kg (0.09, 1.40), p=0.03) and less effective in older individuals (−0.01 kg (−0.02,–0.00), p=0.02).

So if older lifters go higher than the recommended .7g/lbs, do we have any data that it would help bring the MPS response to that of a 22 yo?

Im still consuming more to be safe but I wonder if MPS will remain flawed in older people regardless we go over the .7g/lbs




TL;DR

I wonder if MPS will match that of a 22 yo if I consume more than the .7g/lbs recommended

[Mrpb]

So if older lifters go higher than the recommended .7g/lbs, do we have any data that it would help bring the MPS response to that of a 22 yo?

We do know older people need about 40 gram per meal to get the maximum MPS response.

But the Morton review looked at actual muscle gain and didn't find that more protein was beneficial to muscle gain in older lifters.

In any case, ±4 meals with ±40 gram protein still makes sense if you want to maximise gains.

[boo99]

We do know older people need about 40 gram per meal to get the maximum MPS response.

But the Morton review looked at actual muscle gain and didn't find that more protein was beneficial to muscle gain in older lifters.

In any case, ±4 meals with ±40 gram protein still makes sense if you want to maximise gains.

Thanks, yes for sure.

I got a bit confused on the study above

[ketologs420]

Wanted to write an update
I've been using the cheap alcohol breathalyzer to track my ketones. Some people say its not reliable but it seems to work relatively well for me.
Days when I have more carbs and less fiber, more protein and less fat, or the hours after eating, I will get 0.2 g/l. In the mornings, after working out, or on days when I have higher fat consumption, I will get .4 g/l regularly and have seen it go as high as 0.8 g/l.
Ever since I started eating a little more protein, it hasn't passed the 0.4 g/l mark.
You can almost tell the difference in the energy as well. At 0.1-0.2g/l I feel a little sluggish while at 0.4 and up I feel great, energetic and alert.

My weight is hovering around 195-197lbs.
Tried to stay around 50g net carbs
over 150g of protein. Been trying to get it up to 180s-200s for body re composition.
And around 100g fat.
From 1500-1900 average calorie intake.
Going to the gym for full body workout then rest 2 full days and go again. Been doing this for the past 2-3 weeks.
It's been a little over 5 weeks. Around 10-12lbs down.
Been eating around 3oz of cheese every day and it might be stalling my results lately.
Keto flu and headaches and weird feelings lasted about 2-3 weeks. Until I started adding pink himalayan and cacao powder to my protein shakes every day.

Still take 1 multi vitamin and 1 high quality omega 3 fish oil.
Need to start supplementing with magnesium and potassium.
Need to buy Vitality magnesium and lite salt or no salt for potassium.
I do drink ON amino energy while working out. Also drink coffee with coconut oil 10g and around 30g whey protein before worout and 30g whey after with.

When I felt like eating carbs, my cheat snakcs were oikos zero yogurt, nature valley dark chocolate protein bars, and jicama.

My conditioning is finally geting better at the gym. I don't feel tired on the very first set anymore.

[ketologs420]

I have noticed that I am taking a good 2-3 days for my body to complete rid of soreness.
I remember training 3 years ago and not feeling sore after 1 full day of rest.
Could this be due to keto? Low T levels?
I have been bigger before and was thinking maybe it's the muscle memory forcing itself to grow to its past form and that's why my muscle ache so much when recovering.
It could be due to not supplementing with magnesium or potassium yet.

I have a really bad sore on only one calf muscle. It feels like a strain or tear.
Pain or soreness is on the inside and runs along the back of my leg all the way behind y knee the pain persist.

If you guys have any ideas, let me know.

[ketologs420]

Looking at your body composition I would not go below 150 gram on any day. That's just 0.75 gram protein per lb, that's not even high protein.

And keep in mind that when you're less active you you don't need less protein: this is because activity increases MPS.

I did not get what you are implying with activity here.
Activity increases MPS, therefore active people would need more or less protein? More right?