Well I can't figure out how to delete old threads which sucks but I made a post (or a few posts) about my gains and how I struggled to see them - which I still do, but I recently got a better update photograph taken in the same place as the picture I got taken of me after my first workout of these 5 months as compared to my last update photograph which was in a completely different place with completely different lighting.
5ft7, 19, 68kg (was 64kg when I started), eat 2300-2400 calories a day, 130g of protein a day average, do three full body workouts a week - ran through various programs before starting Fierce 5 Novice three weeks ago, but my lifts remain the same as they were on the first week of starting this routine so I don't know what I'm doing wrong (get 7 to 10 hours of sleep a night too, and the only thing that stresses me out is the fact I've been working out for 5 months and I don't look any different).
Here are the pictures, have at me because it just feels as if I'm one of those one in a million people who's body just doesn't want to respond to lifting.
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06-19-2019, 02:02 PM #1
Progress pictures and have no idea at this point where I'm going wrong.
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06-19-2019, 02:10 PM #2
- Join Date: Jan 2010
- Location: Paducah, Kentucky, United States
- Posts: 8,878
- Rep Power: 89432
Welcome to the world of fitness, and you will be lucky if you start seeing the results you're looking for in a few years, not months!
It took me 5 years to finally START seeing my results and over 10 years to creep out of the DYEL mode.
Stick with the program....consistency and time are your two best friends at this point!**PUREBLOOD FOR LIFE CREW**
-- A e s t h e t i c s C r e w -- E x t r e m e D i p s C r e w -- M i s c C a r C r e w ---
**2004 Acura NSX**2017 Honda Civic Type R, BADGE #357**
**2018 BMW X5M**2020 Toyota TRD PRO**
**Sandwiches are made in the KITCHEN......ABS are built in the GYM!**
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06-19-2019, 02:23 PM #3
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06-19-2019, 02:40 PM #4
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06-19-2019, 02:41 PM #5
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06-19-2019, 02:49 PM #6
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06-19-2019, 02:49 PM #7
For one thing, you're not following Fierce 5. You were supposed to start Fierce 5 at a lighter weight so you SHOULD have been able to add to your lifts you started with. Are you saying you followed Fierce 5 directions, started lighter and STILL can't progress, so that, in fact, you are lifting LESS than you were before starting F5?
What were you benching, squating, and deadlifting when you started 5 months ago, and what are those lifts now?
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06-19-2019, 02:58 PM #8
- Join Date: Jan 2010
- Location: Paducah, Kentucky, United States
- Posts: 8,878
- Rep Power: 89432
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06-19-2019, 03:42 PM #9
Where does it say I should start at a lighter weight??? I started benching 40kg x 12, now bench 72kg x 5, didn't start squatting immediately (didn't see the point of doing legs originally, stupid I know), but I currently squat 90kg x 5, my grip strength is pretty bad so I haven't been able to deadlift to my full capacity as my grip gives in before my back or legs do. Best else I can give you is that I started seated OHP 20kg x 12, now standing OHP 42kg x 5, due to grip strength again I haven't been able to properly do pendlay rows so I just did seated rows, started rowing 40kg x 8, now do 60kg x 8.
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06-19-2019, 03:50 PM #10
The FAQ. https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showt...hp?t=159678631
" How much weight should I use? I highly advise to start out lighter than you think you can handle since the progression is very fast. I can’t stress this enough! This program works best with lighter starting weights. I suggest all lifters, regardless of experience, start with 85% of what they think they can lift. You should not be struggling for 4-6 weeks or so. "
(NOTE to OP, you also are not following the deload protocol because you would have deloaded after being at the same weights for 3 weeks...)
All that ^^^^^ said, just be consistent and patient and gains WILL come. Just keep plugging away.Last edited by CommitmentRulz; 06-19-2019 at 03:57 PM.
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06-19-2019, 03:54 PM #11
It's not even super gains I'm looking for. I just thought I'd look as different as this guy did after he gained 10lbs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6h6xRPwfbk
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06-19-2019, 03:56 PM #12
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06-19-2019, 03:58 PM #13
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06-19-2019, 05:24 PM #14
A reasonable expectation. If you check the followup video posted Apr 29 2018 (title "How to Gain 20 LBS of Muscle!") on the same channel you'll see the guy (Jesse) gained 20# by the time of posting which was 18 months from his first workout and he's very obviously a hardgainer (yes, genetics is fairly significant factor). A guy more in the main distribution genetically (not a twig naturally like Jesse was) will usually get that 1st 20# in 12-15 months IF minding recovery and training on a hypertrophy-focused, not strength-focused (yes, it is different), program.
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06-19-2019, 05:25 PM #15
I wouldn't up it 200 a week but I would eat at 100-200 a day caloric surplus (above estimated maintenance requirements).
If you have genetics in the main distribution [tidbit: genetic propensities in this follow a normal distribution, therefore a bell curve, with roughly 70% being within 1 standard deviation of the mean] then your goal should be a half pound of muscle a week.
Muscle is fewer calories than fat so the 3500 rule doesn't apply. Fat has an energy content of 3500 calories per LB; muscle has an energy content of 700 calories per LB. However, when metabolic processes are factored in the caloric requirement to build (rather than burn) muscle works out to about 2300 calories.
So, to allow for the potential half pound a week (assuming your training and recovery are on point) you need roughly half that 2300 a week in surplus (and assuming, of course a protein surplus).
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06-19-2019, 09:53 PM #16
- Join Date: Dec 2008
- Location: Los Angeles, CA United States
- Posts: 14,054
- Rep Power: 144174
This ^^
Also OP don't be afraid of gaining some fat, it can be lost after you've gained sufficient mass over a decent amount of consistently lifting
Another thing, don't compare your future body composition to someone else's, you are going to be uniquely different as every one isNASM CPT
IG: jeff.galanzzi
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RIP my friend D4K
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06-20-2019, 03:27 AM #17
Honestly...I don’t see the problem. You look good on that picture. I definitely see 5 months worth of progress. Just keep at it and be PATIENT. This doesn’t happen overnight for most people.
Also...remember, the internet isn’t 100% reality, and bodybuilding is about the “illusion”. Pictures are taken in the best lighting, at the best time of day, with a good pump, and in poses that amplify a persons best qualities while diminishing their worst. If you shaved that chest hair, cut down that mop on your head, got a tan, and struck a better pose you would instantly look bigger and better...not necessarily “reality”. So take the progress of others with a grain of salt.
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06-20-2019, 03:34 AM #18
Where did you think I might have gone wrong then? I've been eating as many calories as you say in your next comment (2300, sometimes do 2400), eating 130g-150g of protein a day (130g on average), get plenty of sleep (though I do tend to get to bed much too late yet I still get a full 7-10 hours sleep - I'm currently on break from uni), following hypertrophy focused programs (though, of course, I only started a high regarded one - Fierce 5 Novice, three weeks ago). Could this just mean I'm a harder gainer than Jesse lol
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06-20-2019, 03:43 AM #19
Ah, thanks man, that makes me feel a bit better actually. Don't worry I know weight lifting isn't a quick fix, it's a lifestyle and I'm willing enough to commit to it cuz I find it enjoyable tbh, and I know there are plenty of people on steroids claiming they're natural and luckily YouTube comments have helped me figure out the difference, lol, but when I look at transformations like the one I commented; a guy who's naturally much skinnier than me, and trained by Athlean X (I'm pretty sure I can trust he doesn't secretly use nor endorse steroid use), and to see he made 5x as much progress as I did just makes me think I'm doing something horribly wrong. I'm also a chronic over-thinker so there's that too.
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06-20-2019, 03:46 AM #20
Sorry I kind of worded my answer a bit weirdly. What I meant was that upping my calories by 200 a week sounds reasonable, but I'm not sure if the guy who recommended I do it was saying I should consistently be going up 200 calories a week, as in week 1: 2300, week 2: 2500, week 3: 2800, etc, or if he was saying, week 1: 2300, week 2: 2500, week 3: 2500, etc...?
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06-20-2019, 04:08 AM #21
Yeah...don’t be too quick to assume steroids whenever you see a descent physique. That’s a popular excuse these days. I’m 5’7”, 160 pounds on average, and because I’m 50 I get accused of using TRT on occasion...forget that my build is totally realistic and obtainable and I’ve busted my ass for years. Yes, there are guys who lie online...but never become so cynical you think everyone’s hard work comes from a needle.
Genetics also play a huge part. You are about my height and weight (when I started) and build...so you know...you see guys walking down the street WHO HAVE NEVER TOUCHED A WEIGHT who are taller, have broader shoulders, thicker chest, big calves, and thin waists. Really a pisser! But genetics deals you a hand, and it’s up to you to make the best out of it...and there’s always huge improvements to be made.
If you look at my progress video and think my 1 year transformation is a case in point...this is my second time around lifting. Muscle memory is a wonderful thing, plus I had the experience to allow me to do EVERYTHING right. I didn’t have to use a couple years to experiment like I did the first time around. If you like, I can dig up some pics (although I don’t have many) of my teens to twenties...and you can see, the first couple years we’re slow going.
Finally...Jessy is being trained by a guy who’s bankroll depends on producing some results. Everything Jessy is doing is 100% right under the guidance of someone who does this for a living. Also, Jessy is VERY lean, so every pound of muscle is muscle, and on a skinny frame with little fat, it really shows. He’s made great improvements...but trust me, walking down the street you probably wouldn’t even know he lifts. Jeff Cavalier outweighs me by 20 pounds...and in a shirt, he looks like a normal, healthy, guy. Cuts and leaned give an illusion of size. Look in my gallery at the pics where I cut down to 150 pounds...I look the most muscular in those pics...but in clothes I looked scrawnier as hell. People were asking me if I was sick or something.
Anyway...you are on the right track. Just keep at it. 5 pounds of muscle a year is 25 pounds in 5 years. That’s the entire amount I added to my (similar to yours) frame, and look at the difference it made. Doesn’t sound like much, but it adds up.
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06-20-2019, 10:46 AM #22
It's impossible to answer that lead question without knowing details on what you were doing in the gym. I suggest shaking off 5 months of, yes I agree, very disappointing from the looks of it, lack of progress and focus on the next 5 months actually yielding more reasonable results.
At least you're paying attention to calories, protein minimums, & sleep. Hopefully you're also drinking in the ballpark of 1oz per lb of bodyweight in water as well (if not, it will have an impact; 2/3rds of that muscle you're trying to build is water).
Likely your routine in the gym for most of those months was not a good fit for your goals (ex, muscle gains on Starting Strength & similar are merely incidental to its actual purpose which is strength progression and, as such, generally slower than molasses).
As to your new program Fierce 5 Novice, there are some positive elements to that program but some problematic ones as well. I strongly suggest you modify it by doing the compound exercises that are listed as x5 reps in the 6-10 rep range instead (that'll also give you the easy option of double progression but it's because 5> reps on the compounds is a carryover from a strength-training mindset and that's a slow road). I also emphatically suggest you do not superset a triceps exercise with calves and a biceps exercise with abs. This is utterly counterproductive and one of the more ridiculous notions I've seen in a program. There's no complementarity or antagonism involved between those muscle groups (a necessity to make supersetting productive for muscle growth) and the timesaving measure undermines the necessary subjective intensity to make the biceps and triceps work productive.
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06-22-2019, 12:23 PM #23
If you could get those pictures from your teens that would be great, thanks! I think maybe I've just been expecting too much, but I thought in 5 months I'd at least be able to tell the difference you know. Like I hear all the time that as a newbie you don't need as much focus as someone who's been working out for a year or two as you'll gain muscle that easily but I've been tracking everything meticulously and trying to follow the best recommended programs and yet I don't appear to have gained anything.
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06-22-2019, 03:41 PM #24
So here’s a bunch of pictures going from 16 to 20 (in order). Sorry about the quality...we didn’t have cameras with us at all times when I was young, and rarely took pictures...and you didn’t know what they looked like for a month until you got a camera roll developed.
As you can see, I didn’t really start to look like anything for the first 2 years. The second two is when I started to fill out. I don’t know exact weights, but I think we are talking about 135-140 when I started, probably about 160ish at the end.
...and yes, natural, if there was any question.
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06-22-2019, 04:58 PM #25
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06-23-2019, 12:10 AM #26
You only need to gain 1-2 pounds per month. If you are, you're eating enough. Eating more will only cause more fat gain.
Try reducing the weight on your lifts. See if that allows you to progress again. If not, you may need a different program.
Ps. You're already eating enough protein.Recommended science based fitness & nutrition information:
Alan Aragon https://alanaragon.com/
Brad Schoenfeld http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/
James Krieger https://weightology.net/
Jorn Trommelen http://www.nutritiontactics.com/
Eric Helms & Team3DMJ https://3dmusclejourney.com/
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06-23-2019, 02:42 AM #27
Well at first I was gaining 1lb-2lbs per month but I weighed myself over the last three days and it looks like I actually didn't gain anything this month and I may not have gained anything the month before. On the first of the three days I weighed myself I was down to 66.5kg, and the highest I've got was 68kg (today I got 67.9kg). Considering I'm about to hit the 5 month mark and I started at 64kg, I should be 69kg by now. Judging by that do you think it would be a good idea to increase my calorie intake by 200 calories and see if I start gaining again?
Yeah I've dropped all my lifts by 15% except my squats which were still steadily progressing whilst everything else was stalling. Though the 5lb progression per week on upper body exercises still seems a little fast to me, I'm no professional but I can't imagine I'd be able to hit a 100kg/225lb bench press for 5 reps by the end of the year considering I started at 40kg for 12 reps and I'm currently at 70kg for 5 reps.
Did definitely think I was eating enough protein lol.
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06-23-2019, 02:46 AM #28
Were you training just as consistently all those years or would you say it was in the last 2-3 years you changed something/became more committed or something like that? I keep hearing that due to newbie gains I should be able to put on 20lbs of muscle in my first year, and then subsequently 10lbs in the next, 5lbs in the next, etc, and now I'm a bit confused as I'm having a few people come to me and say for them it was almost the opposite, where they gained less the first years they were working out then in their later years they started to blow up?
Also I know what works for everyone is all different but were you doing a routine along the lines of Fierce 5 Novice or were you following something different?
Thanks for your help man.
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06-23-2019, 03:48 AM #29
I was ridiculously consistent and dedicated. I’d even work out if I was sick, and I once had a leg in a cast and still went the entire time.
The first year or so, I didn’t train legs. Typical kid stuff. Nutrition was “subpar” since I didn’t know how important it was...but still, I ate enough. I was a teenage boy, I ate all the time till I was satisfied. When I was 17 I went in the army for 2 years (worked in a gym for a year after that and went back in the army for 4 more years after that) and I worked in a mess hall storeroom, so I COULD have really had perfect nutrition if I knew.
That whole 20 pounds of muscle thing is generic average. Do you think a 5’7” guy with a small skeletal structure is going to put on the same muscle as a big boned broad shouldered 6’ tall dude?
Whatever your natural genetic potential is doesn’t change. If it’s 30 pounds total, it’s 30 pounds. If you do everything right, it’ll take you 3-5 years to get there. After that your just working hard to maintain and refine. No natural continues to gain mass year after year, it’s just not genetically possible.
People who gained less the first year or two (like me) most likely weren’t doing everything right. The didn’t pay attention to nutrition and they didn’t know their bodies or how to optimize their training.
For example, my early lifting was a 6 day a week P/P/L copy of Arnold workout. I made gains, but modest ones. Later, a more experienced guy told me the old “quality over quantity” and I dropped my volume to less than half of that and my frequency to 4 days a week...and I immediately started making gains (you can see the difference in the second row of pics). Now, I do brief intense full body workouts 3 days a week and think I’m better than ever...took me a lot of effort and experimentation to find out what’s optimal for me.
I never did “strength” training. It was bodybuilding and hypertrophy since day one.
Hope some of that helps.
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06-23-2019, 04:31 AM #30
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