Starting to Plateau

[Magmadar]

Hey guys, I've been lifting on and off since high school but never actually followed a program or diet until recently. Since August I've managed to cut down from about 227lbs to 175lbs and seem to have been stuck here the last month or 2. I use myfitness pal to track calories as well as actually weighing and measuring things out myself since I know it isn't the most accurate. Used to do a 3 day full body A/B week split and have recently switched to a 4 day upper lower split. I had initially started at 2200 calories and eventually worked my way down to about 1600 a day and was still losing anywhere from 1lb to 2.5lbs a week.

However once I hit about 177 my progress seemed to stall to about .5lbs if that even on 1600 calories a day. I thought I might be eating at maintenance and added about 300 (stationary bike) calories worth of cardio a day which says I should be at about 1.5lbs a week and saw 0 results. I figured maybe my metabolism might of taken a hit after cutting for so long and upped it to 1800 a day no cardio and managed to get down to 175 ish and have been here for the 2nd week in a row now going into week 3. I weigh myself daily under the same conditions and divide by 7 at the end of the week and never had any issues up until these last few months.

I've tried most tdee calculators and they put my BMR at 1700 and calories per day in the 2000 range even listing myself as sedentary. I'm 28, about 5'8 or 5'9 and it lists my "ideal weight" anywhere from 150-170. On average I try to get at least 160-170g of protein per day and just a bit less carbs. I don't do any cheat meals or eat the calories I burned, I don't follow a strict diet I just make sure whatever I eat fits my macros for the day. Anyone have any idea what I could be doing wrong? I know the basic answer is obviously you're not in a deficit but I find it hard to believe that at 5'8 175 eating about 1300 calories a day (with estimated cardio) or even 1600-1700 without that I'd not even lose .5lb a week.

[xsquid99]

I'm Starting to Plateau Translation = I'm eating at/or close to my maintenance calorie level

You are overestimating your TDEE and/or failing to track everything correctly.

[Magmadar]

I'm Starting to Plateau Translation = I'm eating at/or close to my maintenance calorie level

You are overestimating your TDEE and/or failing to track everything correctly.

I mean I've been tracking it this way for the past 50+ lbs everything from food and water intake to salt and seasonings so I doubt I'm suddenly doing it wrong. The lowest TDEE numbers I've gotten have been from here at 1912 as "lightly active". At 20% I should be losing at 1530 and as I've said I've even done 1500-1600 for a while with 4 days of lifting 7 days of cardio for about a half hour to 45 min ish and saw no progress. Even at 160lbs that same calculator puts me at 1470 daily. So if my tracking is wrong it must be ridiculously off then.

[Tucane]

If you're 100% certain there is no errors in tracking, then the only option remaining is that your system is fighting to maintain homeostasis. This could be due to elevated stress / inflammation or such leading to water retention.

Anyway, since your body can't do this forever in a chronic deficit... it should give in sooner or later. The solution (as always) is to make sure to stay in a deficit over time.

You could take a some time at estimated maintenance to relieve stress and hope to release some waterweight, if nothing happens... then you have no choice but to check your regime for errors and you know, eat less or move more^^

[Magmadar]

I've read that either here or on another forum somewhere..that due to cutting for so long it's slowed my metabolism to where I need to be eating at maintenance or even a slight surplus for a few months then get back to it. If I'm tracking incorrectly then shouldn't I be gaining at this point? I've essentially went from 1550-1600 per day burning about 300 ish through cardio 7 days a week to eating 1650-1790 a day now with no cardio and still maintaining the same weight. Bumping up my calories was initially what helped me get to 175 after being stuck at 177-176ish for a few weeks.

I drink over a gallon of water a day and stay under the recommended 2k or whatever sodium as well as not having taken creatine this time around so i doubt its water weight but its possible. My lift numbers are going up still although much slower, but body measurements and the scale have stayed about the same.

[Tucane]

Adaptions do happen, but not as drastically as some claim. There are many factors together that makes one stall in weight; lower NEAT, adjusted BMR due to lower weight, Leptin due to prolonged cutting, possibly T levels as a result, among other hormonal and physiological factors.

What strikes to me as most important is that your lifts are still going up, so progress is on. It's easy to fixate on scaleweight in a cutting mindset, but I'd recommend you to focus on keeping up lifting progress for now.

Your endocrine system will luckily do what's best with the given input (it's complex but smart), so just keep up the hard work (add fuel if you have/need to) and you'll still progress one way or another.

[Magmadar]

Adaptions do happen, but not as drastically as some claim. There are many factors together that makes one stall in weight; lower NEAT, adjusted BMR due to lower weight, Leptin due to prolonged cutting, possibly T levels as a result, among other hormonal and physiological factors.

What strikes to me as most important is that your lifts are still going up, so progress is on. It's easy to fixate on scaleweight in a cutting mindset, but I'd recommend you to focus on keeping up lifting progress for now.

Your endocrine system will luckily do what's best with the given input (it's complex but smart), so just keep up the hard work (add fuel if you have/need to) and you'll still progress one way or another.

So about how many calories a day should I be around then at least as a starting point? Like I said around 1500-1600 I was usually pretty hungry throughout the day but at 1650-1790 depending on the day I sometimes even have to go out of my way to get those extra few calories and don't feel like I'm starving in between meals. Like I said most calculators for "lightly active" lifting 4x a week for around an hour put me anywhere from 1700-2000 for 1lb a week. I've even tried the % formula rather than a set number (body weight x 13 / %) and for a .20% loss puts me at 1820 a day. I've even been told to just keep bumping up my calories by 150-250 a week until I start gaining then just cut back a little and stay there for a while.

[Tommy W.]

Your maintenance lowers by around 100 cals a day for every 10 lbs lost so that's around a 500 cal difference

[rjoylo2008]

Op, I can tell you I came off a high of 225lbs albeit that was years, years ago. However more recently I was down in the 187-192 (avatar) range for a solid 5 years. The past 2+ years I started tracking and I have basically either been in a deficit or at maintenance. My calories once tracked started at 2,200, then to 2,000 and I was stuck at 180 for months. BF down from 24% to 15.8%. I've now been on a cut for 6wks cals at 1749 for most of the cut and the scale moved very slowly but it did move South. I also, most importantly, saw major transformation in the mirror. Like others have mentioned you just have to hang in there. Your determination will beat your body. The past couple of weeks I cut back to 1658 cals and I lost 2 lbs in a wk. Just keep going and stay on track.

[Magmadar]

I just feel like I’m doing something wrong since I’m seeing almost 0 changes and getting conflicting opinions after seeing a consistent loss of 1 - 2lbs a week. At about 1300 including cardio I was pretty much told that I’m starving myself and need to up my calories even though I was seeing minimum to no progress. Now at about 1700 I’m getting different calculators putting me between 1700-2000 a day TDEE for “lightly Active” and basically being told I need to eat less than I am which puts me back to where I was initially.

I know there’s no exact amount of calories that works for everyone I just wish I knew if I was doing the right thing to make progress even if it takes longer.

Right now the plan is to stick it out at 1550-1790 or so a day for a month and see what happens which depending on the calculator is anywhere from maintenance to 300 under.

[Tommy W.]

i just feel like i’m doing something wrong since i’m seeing almost 0 changes and getting conflicting opinions after seeing a consistent loss of 1 - 2lbs a week. At about 1300 including cardio i was pretty much told that i’m starving myself and need to up my calories even though i was seeing minimum to no progress. Now at about 1700 i’m getting different calculators putting me between 1700-2000 a day tdee for “lightly active” and basically being told i need to eat less than i am which puts me back to where i was initially.

I know there’s no exact amount of calories that works for everyone i just wish i knew if i was doing the right thing to make progress even if it takes longer.

Right now the plan is to stick it out at 1550-1790 or so a day for a month and see what happens which depending on the calculator is anywhere from maintenance to 300 under.

forget the calculators. No progress at 1300 and your counting is off by quite a bit.

[jthomps123]

I think there is something to the homeostasis and/or mix it up advice. I do keto quite often, and i had been stuck around 162 lbs @ 1200kcal per day for probably 1-2 months. Decided to up my intake to about 1600kcal per day and reintroduced a good amount of carbs to at least get some good workouts in, scale started moving down again. About to be under 160 lbs even after putting back on the carb water weight. I might go back to 1200 per day for a few weeks to get rid of the last 10 lbs. and see how that goes.

[Magmadar]

forget the calculators. No progress at 1300 and your counting is off by quite a bit.

Probably because like I’ve read everywhere including here that no grown man should almost ever be cutting under 1500. More than 90% of the estimated weight at this rate calculators won’t even give you a number under that because it’s “dangerously low”. I also always list myself as sedentary or lightly active since I know everyone always overestimates how hard they actually workout.

BMR has put me in the 1700-1800 range which from what I understand is how many calories you burn just being alive in bed all day. So if I’m lifting 4 times a week plus doing cardio to be at 1300 I can see where your body would be reluctant to let go of any calories.

[Magmadar]

I think there is something to the homeostasis and/or mix it up advice. I do keto quite often, and i had been stuck around 162 lbs @ 1200kcal per day for probably 1-2 months. Decided to up my intake to about 1600kcal per day and reintroduced a good amount of carbs to at least get some good workouts in, scale started moving down again. About to be under 160 lbs even after putting back on the carb water weight. I might go back to 1200 per day for a few weeks to get rid of the last 10 lbs. and see how that goes.

If you’re losing at 1600 I think ideally you stay there until you stop then lower by 250. Situations like yours are a great example of why I’ve been told the % formula is better than a set amount of calories because you’ll always be in a .20% or whatever you choose deficit no matter the weight.

[Tommy W.]

Probably because like I’ve read everywhere including here that no grown man should almost ever be cutting under 1500. More than 90% of the estimated weight at this rate calculators won’t even give you a number under that because it’s “dangerously low”. I also always list myself as sedentary or lightly active since I know everyone always overestimates how hard they actually workout.

BMR has put me in the 1700-1800 range which from what I understand is how many calories you burn just being alive in bed all day. So if I’m lifting 4 times a week plus doing cardio to be at 1300 I can see where your body would be reluctant to let go of any calories.

I don't think you're understanding that you're underestimating your weekly calorie intake

[XinXom]

I don't think you're understanding that you're underestimating your weekly calorie intake

@tommy solid advise as always but I think he was just being unclear. I don't think we was trying to say he was eating 1300 a day, I think he was trying to say he was eating 1700-1800 a day and estimating his exercise and just decided to subtract that number from his ~1750 it for whatever reason.

@OP in general it doesn't make sense to subtract exercise calories back out it just confuses people. The advise is good though eating 200 more calories a day will not make weight come off so I would be hesitant to think increasing your intake is the solution to your issue. If you feel like your not getting enough food and as such you reduce your exercise or end up having a one night 1000 calories binge or something then it is in fact counter productive. If the too low intake is causing you to hold water weight it should not be stopping fat loss. Every piece of data i have read on the lowering of your body's BMR never supersedes the additional deficit . IE if you eat 100 less cals a day maybe your body then burns say 30-40 less cals a day and your really only getting 3/4 or half the benefit (made up numbers here) for the last few calories you didn't eat but it will never be more than the additional 100 calories you cut out. Im alot bigger than you and I cant speak to you personally but from my own anecdotal experience cutting this year my daily and even weekly weigh in are almost completely water weight driven and i can predict my exact weigh ins based on carb intake and how long i t was since I last ate. Its only when i look at the large time frames that i see true weight loss. I agree that you should not drop below 1500-1600 and you should be fine cutting at that intake unless its making you weak and unable/unmotivated to workout and or causing you to refeed the calories later. I HIGHLY doubt the extra calories you have been eating is the reason your scale finally moved and the repair your attempting ot do to your BMR will be so insignificantly small that it wont come close to surpassing the extra calories you did not want to cut... however if you feel like your not getting enough fuel and your body is telling you it can push harder with just a little bit more fuel then that seems fine too maybe even better it just wont be as fast.

[Tommy W.]

@tommy solid advise as always but I think he was just being unclear. I don't think we was trying to say he was eating 1300 a day, I think he was trying to say he was eating 1700-1800 a day and estimating his exercise and just decided to subtract that number from his ~1750 it for whatever reason.

.

Thank you for the clarification.

And also, correct, additional calories never have and never will assist fatloss unless the additional activity outweighs the additional calories and this is very rarely the case.

[Magmadar]

Thank you for the clarification.

And also, correct, additional calories never have and never will assist fatloss unless the additional activity outweighs the additional calories and this is very rarely the case.

That’s all fine and we’ll but again what I don’t understand is if I’m tracking incorrectly at 1500 with cardio and staying the same.. then why am I not gaining now being on my 2nd going into 3rd week of 1700-1800 calories and no cardio if my tracking method remains the same.

[Tucane]

That’s all fine and we’ll but again what I don’t understand is if I’m tracking incorrectly at 1500 with cardio and staying the same.. then why am I not gaining now being on my 2nd going into 3rd week of 1700-1800 calories and no cardio if my tracking method remains the same.

Tracking method being the same doesn't rule out all errors.

Are you eating the same foods? You might be making errors on specific foods due to nutrition labels being off or something along those lines.

Homeostasis and NEAT adaptions are real things, so weight gain/loss isn't linear due to these factors.

In other words:

Your behaviour differs based on your calories/macros, no matter how aware you think you are... eating more makes you move more and the other way around. A lazy person doing a 200kcal bout of cardio vs an generally more active one who doesn't, have close to the same TDEE. Add some water fluctuations to this, due to varied water/carb/sodium intake, inflammation in specific areas, variable amounts of food in intestines... you get the drill.

Stay consistent and hang in there.

Focus on your lifting progress!

[Magmadar]

I guess all of it basically comes down to this.. at 5’8 175 and lifting 4x a week for about an hour.. what’s a realistic number of calories per day I should aim for to lose? I get that I’ll have to adjust here and there and monitor progress but what’s a good starting point? The best I’ve been able to work out from calculators on average is about 1730 for a loss of 5 lbs in 35 days.

[Tommy W.]

That’s all fine and we’ll but again what I don’t understand is if I’m tracking incorrectly at 1500 with cardio and staying the same.. then why am I not gaining now being on my 2nd going into 3rd week of 1700-1800 calories and no cardio if my tracking method remains the same.

Because it takes time. If you continue you will start gaining and when you lower again you will keep gaining for a few more weeks before you level off and then a bit later start losing. People have this idea that your body instantly gains and loses weight the instant they make changes. This is why people diet in a deficit for 2-3 weeks and nothing happens then they say to hell with it and up calories then lose weight. It's the deficit just now kicking in

[Tucane]

I guess all of it basically comes down to this.. at 5’8 175 and lifting 4x a week for about an hour.. what’s a realistic number of calories per day I should aim for to lose? I get that I’ll have to adjust here and there and monitor progress but what’s a good starting point? The best I’ve been able to work out from calculators on average is about 1730 for a loss of 5 lbs in 35 days.

Well you obviously didn't lose weight at 1600-1700... so go for 1500 strictly counted calories and stick religiously to that.

Force yourself to be more active in general (walk everywhere you go and don't sit on your butt). Allot more calories to the protein macro for additional TEF, cut from carbs and fat but make sure you don't go too low on the latter... You should start dropping in weight within a week or two.