RAW: Bodycam video shows police confront man picking up trash outside building

[wincel]

You are wrong about a couple of things.

Notice how the officer mentions that he witnessed him 'sittin' on the patio' but didn't make contact until the guy went on the sidewalk? Ever wonder why that was? If you want to get super technical - he is on a public sidewalk in the first 5 seconds of the video and is standing in a right of way easement / parkway / public street curb during various points in the encounter. So he's not actually on 'private property' (as you erroneously state) for the initial contact.

The point of my original post was that officer had the obligation to identify the guy by law. But could have done it in a much better way. They could have easily figured this out without name calling, weapons drawn, and aggressiveness.

The officer walked up and started asking questions as he is allowed to do according to the ACLU "An officer may approach you on the street and ask you questions for any reason." The officer was asking questions and then talking over himself like a typical miscer. Maybe that's the technique they teach is school because he tripped up the kid on the "what's the actual address then?" The student has to physically turn around and look at the numbers on the building - RED FLAG #1. Follows up with a quick "what unit are you in?" "I don't think I have to tell you that" - RED FLAG #2. Then the officer asks the student to identify himself, and he does provide a student ID that he tries to snatch back from the officer - RED FLAG #3 - also allowed according to the ACLU "Colorado is one of several states which have a “stop and identify” law. In Colorado, this law gives law enforcement officers the authority to require you to identify yourself if the officer reasonably suspects you are committing, have committed or are about to commit a crime." "(1) A peace officer may stop any person who he reasonably suspects is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a crime and may require him to give his name and address, identification if available, and an explanation of his actions." All this stuff was above board - In fact according to the Department, the Officer got all of the information that was required by law and the interaction should have ended right there. Im sure the officer thought the red flags added up to something more; but his hunch was wrong and things quickly escalated out of control; and that is why he's looking for a new job.



http://aclu-co.org/wp-content/upload...R-Colorado.pdf
https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/f...20180201v3.pdf

I think the entire point most of us are making ITT is that Colorado's law is dumb, and would be struck down by the supreme court in an ideal world. Their stop and identify law is contrary to the spirit of American legal philosophy.

[KingSWRV]

You are wrong about a couple of things.

Notice how the officer mentions that he witnessed him 'sittin' on the patio' but didn't make contact until the guy went on the sidewalk? Ever wonder why that was? If you want to get super technical - he is on a public sidewalk in the first 5 seconds of the video and is standing in a right of way easement / parkway / public street curb during various points in the encounter. So he's not actually on 'private property' (as you erroneously state) for the initial contact.

The point of my original post was that officer had the obligation to identify the guy by law. But could have done it in a much better way. They could have easily figured this out without name calling, weapons drawn, and aggressiveness.

The officer walked up and started asking questions as he is allowed to do according to the ACLU "An officer may approach you on the street and ask you questions for any reason." The officer was asking questions and then talking over himself like a typical miscer. Maybe that's the technique they teach is school because he tripped up the kid on the "what's the actual address then?" The student has to physically turn around and look at the numbers on the building - RED FLAG #1. Follows up with a quick "what unit are you in?" "I don't think I have to tell you that" - RED FLAG #2. Then the officer asks the student to identify himself, and he does provide a student ID that he tries to snatch back from the officer - RED FLAG #3 - also allowed according to the ACLU "Colorado is one of several states which have a “stop and identify” law. In Colorado, this law gives law enforcement officers the authority to require you to identify yourself if the officer reasonably suspects you are committing, have committed or are about to commit a crime." "(1) A peace officer may stop any person who he reasonably suspects is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a crime and may require him to give his name and address, identification if available, and an explanation of his actions." All this stuff was above board - In fact according to the Department, the Officer got all of the information that was required by law and the interaction should have ended right there. Im sure the officer thought the red flags added up to something more; but his hunch was wrong and things quickly escalated out of control; and that is why he's looking for a new job.



http://aclu-co.org/wp-content/upload...R-Colorado.pdf
https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/f...20180201v3.pdf

thank you!!

[ChewYourFood]

I think the entire point most of us are making ITT is that Colorado's law is dumb, and would be struck down by the supreme court in an ideal world. Their stop and identify law is contrary to the spirit of American legal philosophy.

Until we get there, everyone should peep this https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/f...20180201v3.pdf and google 'ACLU Know Your Rights + name of your state.' So that you affirmatively know what is required.

*I'm a miscer, not a licensed attorney. Do not construe this post as legal advice.*

[wincel]

Until we get there, everyone should peep this https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/f...20180201v3.pdf and google 'ACLU Know Your Rights + name of your state.' So that you affirmatively know what is required.

*I'm a miscer, not a licensed attorney. Do not construe this post as legal advice.*

Right, and I don't see date of birth as required anywhere there.

[KingSWRV]

^thank you for the free legal advice

[ChewYourFood]

Right, and I don't see date of birth as required anywhere there.

And? I literally quoted the CO section in my previous post. After you give them what is required by law, they can ask whatever they want and you don't have to give it to them. They can still arrest you, beat you up, or shoot you - but now you / your estate have a legal case.

[wincel]

And? I literally quoted the CO section in my previous post. After you give them what is required by law, they can ask whatever they want and you don't have to give it to them. They can still arrest you, beat you up, or shoot you - but now you / your estate have a legal case.

Exactly...and that is why what the cop in the vid was doing was completely ridiculous...

[esp2]

The Land of the Free*

[leoslayer1]

he thought he was trespassing on private property and there's no trespassing laws/signs there...

remember he first saw him sitting on a patio behind the building and only got up when he started the footage.

probably was something suspicious off camera

So its like if youre on the sidewalk its different but he started off sitting on a random patio which probably wasn't his residence.

the rest escalated due to the suspiciousness

I mean at some point he literally got mad saying "how am I supposed to have something that has my address??"

uhhhh...... okk.......

A cop can't see someone on private property with no trespassing signs and inquire if they belong there.

That's not how trespassing works.

A resident or owner of a property has to tell the police to trespass the person.


How can you be so uninformed about the laws of America.

[leoslayer1]

It's a miscommunication issue that could have been solved by either person being more reasonable.

The cop was wrong plain and simple.

I don't have to talk to cops for any reason. Neither did the guy. He should have told the cop to leave him alone and gone about his business.

[leoslayer1]

I am the biggest leo supporter youll ever meet and the cop was in the wrong. I do think once he says youre being detained he can legally detain you for noreason but it doesnt make it right.

No they can't.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_stop

[leoslayer1]

I have asked 2 cops, a Sargent in Malibu CA and am undercover DEA cop VERY high up in rank what their opinions are of the video. Will let you know what they say.

My opinion....

We don't know the entire story of what has been going on in that neighborhood. For all we know a rash of burglaries have been occurring (the cop even said that). So to judge the cop in that situation without knowing the facts isn't right. The cop said he was investigating a tresspass. The cop then told the other cop that he saw him milling around, sitting and then walking around with something in his hand that looked like a weapon. That is when he approached him. Would have been very easy for the trash guy to say "thanks officer for protecting my neighborhood but I live at xx apt and am just working".

He didn't do any of that.

As soon as the cop asked what apt number he lived in, literally within 30 seconds of the interaction, the trash man gets confrontational and refuses to tell him. That is a red flag.

He then starts walking away. Calling the cop dumb ass, jack ass, and a plethora of other names. Not good.

He then gets more and more aggravated while holding the trash spear, which is a weapon.

Starts screaming the cop has a gun. Yelling and acting like a person ready to do something stupid.

Considering all of that, I am not sure what you guys would have had the cop do? He said he was just going to follow him until backup came. I thought he stayed pretty calm.

The guy even said that he is going to get lawyers and go after the cop in court. Half the things he said were the same things you hear on youtube videos. Seems to me he has seen too many of these videos where people act like complete dumbasses to the cops and get 500 K views. Social media attention whoring strikes again.

It would have been very simple for the trash man to tell the officer what apt he lived in. To show him. Politely and without confrontation. And it could have all been taken care of in 5 minutes or less.

Instead a man risked his life over his ego and a cop lost his job because of SJW reasons.

I will never understand why people do this. Is it really worth the risk of losing your life because of ego? Because you want to get on youtube for some social media clout?

That being said....

The cop should have, when the guy said he would buzz him in, gone along with that. Would have deescalated the situation rather quickly. That really is the only thing I could see him do wrong.

All in all two people escalated the situation and a person almost ended up dead because of it, which is beyond stupid.

And bear in mind I am not a huge fan of the police for my own reasons. Many are power hungry ego maniacs without proper training. But in this case, the cop was imo just doing his job, protecting the welfare of the community, and decided on the side of caution in talking to trash guy. Which I would take over not giving a ****e.

Surprised your cop friends don't know the law. Rash of burglaries in the area, high crime area, insert x area are not qualifiers under Terry for a stop.

[Xgamer791]

Lol. Not sure if trolling.

BrB, got a doctorate
BrB, work in academia
BrB, I'm a "thug."

Ok, bro. Not too bright.

Negged for being a ****gort

[LeonardShelby]

Cop was a moron and on a power trip. But I lol'd at "why would i have something with my address on it do people just carry IDs around with them?" Uh yes.

[LeonardShelby]

and you can't simply slap handcuffs on a guy and take them into custody unless you are officially placing the, under arrest--in which case the individual has a right to be told the specific charges.

Cops should be stripped of guns. Also, the ACLU is an authentic civil liberties organization that has defended the free speech rights of even the Klan and actual Nazis. They're consistent.

You have a PHD and work in academia but don't know that a cop can literally place you in handcuffs at will if they feel "threatened" verbally or physically. They don't have to play you under arrest.

[nn586]

Christ, you're an idiot. A lot of the time these guys just sit by the side of the highway with radar guns. Your badge worshipping is pathetic.

Lol fuking rekt

[BigPoppaPump84]

Cop was a moron and on a power trip. But I lol'd at "why would i have something with my address on it do people just carry IDs around with them?" Uh yes.

LOL this. But in all seriousness, the victim said he was a student at university, so I doubt he'd bother getting the address changed on his drivers license to reflect the address of some dorm room he was renting.

[KingSWRV]

Cop was a moron and on a power trip. But I lol'd at "why would i have something with my address on it do people just carry IDs around with them?" Uh yes.

HoW

aM

I

suPPoSed

to haVE soMeThinG

...

wiTH my AdresS oN iT!!?????

??

[Rebel012]

Negged for being a ****gort

Lawl, not sure if you were being ironic, but you actually repped me. If that was your intention, thanks.

Edit: saw comment, thanks brah.

[Rebel012]

You have a PHD and work in academia but don't know that a cop can literally place you in handcuffs at will if they feel "threatened" verbally or physically. They don't have to play you under arrest.

If he feels threatened he has a reason and would likely charge you for attempted assault or some other felony. A cop cannot simply cuff you and place you in the back of a cruiser simply because he says he feels "threatened."

[MoeBettuh]

Cop was a moron and on a power trip. But I lol'd at "why would i have something with my address on it do people just carry IDs around with them?" Uh yes.

HoW

aM

I

suPPoSed

to haVE soMeThinG

...

wiTH my AdresS oN iT!!?????

??

As a student away at university, you guys literally had IDs that had your apartment address on it? I Juan to be leaf.

[Besaidbrah]

A homeless guy with a crack addiction is sitting on your porch
A cop comes and asks him to show him ID with address on it to prove he's allowed to be there
"I don't have to show you phucking ANYTHING I phucking LIVE HERE so FUK OFF you JACKASS"
The cop backs down and leaves
Your house gets robbed
*******s on the misc rejoice

[nn586]

Lawl, not sure if you were being ironic, but you actually repped me. If that was your intention, thanks.

Edit: saw comment, thanks brah.

repped

[LeonardShelby]

If he feels threatened he has a reason and would likely charge you for attempted assault or some other felony. A cop cannot simply cuff you and place you in the back of a cruiser simply because he says he feels "threatened."

Dude. Holy fuk. Yes they can. This literally happens all the time. When I was 15 me and my friends were cuffed because some gang bangers were going at it in my neighborhood and someone reported they ran through the park where my friends and I were skating at the time. They cuffed us just in case it was us then let us go. And here's straight from the mouth of a lawyer.

Absolutely. There is a difference between being “in custody” and being “under arrest.”

They will usually also say something along the lines of, “You are not under arrest, I am merely restraining you for your safety and for mine while I <go do x y and z over there and can’t watch you>. Now sit right here and don’t move.”

Handcuffs do not imply “arrest.” They do imply “custody.” Those two words mean different things.

For example, while you’re handcuffed and you can’t leave, can the officer ask you questions without Mirandizing you? The answer is no, because it would be considered “custodial interrogation,” and you would need to be informed of your Miranda rights before being questioned.

So while you may be “in custody,” which simply means you are not free to leave, you are not “under arrest,” which means the officer has reasonable suspicion to believe that you committed a crime, and you are being detained for that crime.

Are you even American? Seriously this is like common knowledge.

As a student away at university, you guys literally had IDs that had your apartment address on it? I Juan to be leaf.

No I just thought it was funny how he said it.

[Coach McGuirk]

You are wrong about a couple of things.

Notice how the officer mentions that he witnessed him 'sittin' on the patio' but didn't make contact until the guy went on the sidewalk? Ever wonder why that was? If you want to get super technical - he is on a public sidewalk in the first 5 seconds of the video and is standing in a right of way easement / parkway / public street curb during various points in the encounter. So he's not actually on 'private property' (as you erroneously state) for the initial contact.

The point of my original post was that officer had the obligation to identify the guy by law. But could have done it in a much better way. They could have easily figured this out without name calling, weapons drawn, and aggressiveness.

The officer walked up and started asking questions as he is allowed to do according to the ACLU "An officer may approach you on the street and ask you questions for any reason." The officer was asking questions and then talking over himself like a typical miscer. Maybe that's the technique they teach is school because he tripped up the kid on the "what's the actual address then?" The student has to physically turn around and look at the numbers on the building - RED FLAG #1. Follows up with a quick "what unit are you in?" "I don't think I have to tell you that" - RED FLAG #2. Then the officer asks the student to identify himself, and he does provide a student ID that he tries to snatch back from the officer - RED FLAG #3 - also allowed according to the ACLU "Colorado is one of several states which have a “stop and identify” law. In Colorado, this law gives law enforcement officers the authority to require you to identify yourself if the officer reasonably suspects you are committing, have committed or are about to commit a crime." "(1) A peace officer may stop any person who he reasonably suspects is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a crime and may require him to give his name and address, identification if available, and an explanation of his actions." All this stuff was above board - In fact according to the Department, the Officer got all of the information that was required by law and the interaction should have ended right there. Im sure the officer thought the red flags added up to something more; but his hunch was wrong and things quickly escalated out of control; and that is why he's looking for a new job.



http://aclu-co.org/wp-content/upload...R-Colorado.pdf
https://www.ilrc.org/sites/default/f...20180201v3.pdf

So he waited for a kid who was on private property to leave that property so he could interrogate him under the law. Great police work. Way to keep the peace. The kid was clearly cleaning up trash and did not appear to be a vagrant. Maybe if he explained why he was there questioning him it wouldn’t have escalated. Trash police work imo.

Edit: and if there was any report of a disturbance or trespassing or suspicious character, the cop could have approached him while he was on the patio no?

[Rebel012]

Dude. Holy fuk. Yes they can. This literally happens all the time. When I was 15 me and my friends were cuffed because some gang bangers were going at it in my neighborhood and someone reported they ran through the park where my friends and I were skating at the time. They cuffed us just in case it was us then let us go. And here's straight from the mouth of a lawyer

I agree with what you're saying, I should have been clearer: They need some type of probable cause to place handcuffs on you and put you in custody (which I understand is different from arrest). Probable cause has to be reasonable, they don't necessarily have to be right. However, my point was that they simply cannot decide that they subjectively feel threatened and cuff you. I'm sure this happens and they get away with it, but you'd be within your right to challenge it in court and a half decent lawyer would win.

[calvesbr0]

One weird trick to stop do-gooders in their tracks..

[inb4everything]

Definitely a miscer.

[SippyCups]

Hold on now, let's wait until all the facts come out guys

[MotorcycleBrah]

Wow german police would probably give you a cold beer if you're picking up trash in your neighbourhood.