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    Lentils and Protein intake

    Hey all,

    I’ve been on a journey over the past year to get more muscular and get in better shape.

    The hardest part for me is, find the right foods to eat to get enough protein when I’m in a bulking phase. I found lentils, but only recently have I seemed to discover that the nutritional information I.e. the amount of protein that’s listed on the package drops considerably after cooking them. Because I was under the impression that 100 grams of lentils cooked contained 24g of protein. But something I was reading today says 100g of cooked lentils only has 9g of protein. Does anyone know definitely which of these figures is true for cooked lentils

    Also, if any of you have any meal suggestions that have about 60g of protein in them, I’d love to hear them. Because if cooked lentils only have 9g of protein in them, I’m drastically down in the amount of protein I thought my body was getting.
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    Always weigh your food uncooked. 100 gram uncooked lentils 24 gram protein.

    You only need 0.7 gram protein per lb. All sources count, even bread and nuts.
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    I am not sure about lentils since I don't eat a ton but basically any type of meat, eggs, greek yogurt etc have a decent amount of protein. Just get some protein in throughout the day instead of 60 at once.
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    The only thing with a protein content of +60g/100g is powder afaik.

    Don't know that much about lentils...
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    Lentils are great. Combine them with 200g of chicken/red meat and you'll hit 60g protein easily in a meal.
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    Obviously cooked lentils will weigh less because of water. Dry red lentils have 25 grams of protein per 100 grams (350 kCal). They work great as a staple and are just so healthy for you. According to a meta-analysis I read, they are the best legume in terms of anti-cancerous properties and also generally correlated with longevity. I eat around 400 grams a day on a bulk, that's 100 grams of protein right there and about 45% of my bulking calories.

    If you want more protein rich plant-based foods, try other beans (similar protein content), TVP (it's awesome while cutting; 52 grams of protein per 100 grams) or seitan (60+ grams of protein per 100 grams). All of these are delicious if made right.
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Always weigh your food uncooked. 100 gram uncooked lentils 24 gram protein.

    You only need 0.7 gram protein per lb. All sources count, even bread and nuts.
    I thought the rule of thumb was 1.5g of protein per lb of lean body mass?
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    Lentils are better than no protein, but they do not contain all the essential amino acids that meat, dairy, and eggs contain. Make sure to get some complete proteins in your diet.

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    Originally Posted by TheUnderdog83 View Post
    Lentils are better than no protein, but they do not contain all the essential amino acids that meat, dairy, and eggs contain. Make sure to get some complete proteins in your diet.
    This was thought to be true several years ago but it's outdated now. Lentils and all other whole food protein sources contain all the amino acids necessary to stimulate muscle protein synthesis.

    As long as you're getting enough leucine in a meal it will stimulate MPS just fine.

    Meat is still a better choice than lentils, not because the protein is "complete", but because it contains relatively more leucine.

    Originally Posted by LedHead89 View Post
    I thought the rule of thumb was 1.5g of protein per lb of lean body mass?
    Thank god no. 0.7 gram protein per lb is the recommended minimum. You'd probably benefit from reading the stickies.
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    Originally Posted by TheUnderdog83 View Post
    Lentils are better than no protein, but they do not contain all the essential amino acids that meat, dairy, and eggs contain. Make sure to get some complete proteins in your diet.
    I definitely eat plenty of meat and dairy. I can’t eat eggs because of an intolerance.

    In my original post, I wasn’t asking about lentils because they’re my only protein source. Just trying to get more information on them, and to also try and find some other ideas of how everybody here gets their protein in.
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    Originally Posted by LedHead89 View Post
    Just trying to get more information on them, and to also try and find some other ideas of how everybody here gets their protein in.
    Once you adjust your goal to 0.7 gram protein per lb you'll probably find that you're achieving that goal without any special effort.
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    Originally Posted by TheUnderdog83 View Post
    Lentils are better than no protein, but they do not contain all the essential amino acids that meat, dairy, and eggs contain. Make sure to get some complete proteins in your diet.

    https://images.app.goo.gl/3dryBAEvGRhrcUqHA
    Technically lentils are a complete source, they just have a couple amino acids in smaller concentrations compared to, for example, soy. I eat around 200 grams of lentils everyday as the centre of my lunch and dinner, and they alone fulfil all my daily requirements for each amino acid.
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    This was thought to be true several years ago but it's outdated now. Lentils and all other whole food protein sources contain all the amino acids necessary to stimulate muscle protein synthesis.

    As long as you're getting enough leucine in a meal it will stimulate MPS just fine.

    Meat is still a better choice than lentils, not because the protein is "complete", but because it contains relatively more leucine.
    I was unaware lentils were whole proteins.

    The below link, reviewed in 2018, still confirms dairy and meat proteins to be superior based on EAA to many plant based proteins.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...8/#!po=2.23881
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    Originally Posted by TheUnderdog83 View Post
    I was unaware lentils were whole proteins.

    The below link, reviewed in 2018, still confirms dairy and meat proteins to be superior based on EAA to many plant based proteins.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art...8/#!po=2.23881
    The paper confirms exactly what I've been saying in this thread:

    - Lentils and all other whole food protein sources contain all the amino acids necessary to stimulate muscle protein synthesis.
    - As long as you're getting enough leucine in a meal it will stimulate MPS just fine.
    - Meat is still a better choice than lentils, not because the protein is "complete", but because it contains relatively more leucine.

    From the paper: "The differential muscle protein synthetic response is largely dependent on the postprandial availability of essential amino acids (and leucine in particular) to the muscle."

    And that's the nice thing: when you're getting enough leucine from whole food you're automatically getting enough of the other EAAs. A meal consisting of solely corn may be the only exception.
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    2 cups of diced pork chops gets you ~90g of protein and is 600 cals

    2 cups of diced chicken breast is about ~86g of protein and is 460 cals

    2 cups of diced flank steaks is ~96g of protein and is 720 cals

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    There are several RCTs that compare soy/rice/pea protein powder to protein powder from animal sources and none of them notice any difference in lean mass gains, so I don't think animal protein is any better than plant protein when it comes to hypertrophy, at least when taken as a powdered supplement. You could argue that animal products from whole foods is superior to plant protein from whole foods due to whatever reason, but there really are no studies that have compared that, so there's no evidence to back that up. The paper cited in this thread earlier indicates at a lower leucine level in plant protein sources, which sounds like it might be a problem, but its only so at a mechanistic, hypothetical level which is meaningless. In randomised trials, just as in real life, each group ends up with identical gains, as long as the quantity of protein is the same independent of the source.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1997115/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3698202/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25628520
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    Originally Posted by Curmudgeon7 View Post
    There are several RCTs that compare soy/rice/pea protein powder to protein powder from animal sources and none of them notice any difference in lean mass gains, so I don't think animal protein is any better than plant protein when it comes to hypertrophy, at least when taken as a powdered supplement. You could argue that animal products from whole foods is superior to plant protein from whole foods due to whatever reason, but there really are no studies that have compared that, so there's no evidence to back that up. The paper cited in this thread earlier indicates at a lower leucine level in plant protein sources, which sounds like it might be a problem, but its only so at a mechanistic, hypothetical level which is meaningless. In randomised trials, just as in real life, each group ends up with identical gains, as long as the quantity of protein is the same independent of the source.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1997115/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3698202/
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25628520

    Not exactly true, an excerpt from the previously mentioned article-

    Studies investigating the anabolic properties of plant-based proteins have shown that the muscle protein synthetic response to the ingestion of soy (Tang et al. 2009; Wilkinson et al. 2007; Yang et al. 2012b) and wheat protein (Gorissen et al. 2016) is lower when compared with dairy protein.
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    The paper confirms exactly what I've been saying in this thread:

    - Lentils and all other whole food protein sources contain all the amino acids necessary to stimulate muscle protein synthesis.
    - As long as you're getting enough leucine in a meal it will stimulate MPS just fine.
    - Meat is still a better choice than lentils, not because the protein is "complete", but because it contains relatively more leucine.

    From the paper: "The differential muscle protein synthetic response is largely dependent on the postprandial availability of essential amino acids (and leucine in particular) to the muscle."

    And that's the nice thing: when you're getting enough leucine from whole food you're automatically getting enough of the other EAAs. A meal consisting of solely corn may be the only exception.
    It agrees with part of what you’re saying, but not exactly -

    “Ingesting these amounts of protein may be sufficient to activate the muscle protein synthetic machinery, assuming that 2.7 g leucine is sufficient to trigger this activation. Once activated, all amino acids are required to serve as precursors for de novo tissue protein synthesis and shortage of one or more specific amino acids could compromise a sustained elevation in postprandial muscle protein synthesis rates.”
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    Originally Posted by TheUnderdog83 View Post
    It agrees with part of what you’re saying, but not exactly -

    “Ingesting these amounts of protein may be sufficient to activate the muscle protein synthetic machinery, assuming that 2.7 g leucine is sufficient to trigger this activation. Once activated, all amino acids are required to serve as precursors for de novo tissue protein synthesis and shortage of one or more specific amino acids could compromise a sustained elevation in postprandial muscle protein synthesis rates.”
    And then they mention: "We recently showed that increasing the amount of wheat protein hydrolysate from 35 to 60 g, thereby matching for the leucine content of 35 g whey protein, was able to substantially increase postprandial muscle protein synthesis rates (Gorissen et al. 2016)."

    So this study showed even wheat protein can robustly stimulate MPS, as long as you get enough leucine.

    Attached below is a screenshot of the amino acid content of 150 gram lentils, which provides 2.7 gram leucine. The only EAA that is low is methionine. It provided 0.3 gram. Would this halt MPS? Unlikely, as other studies have shown that as little as 0.14 gram methionine can be enough as long as enough of the other EAAs are present.
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    And then they mention: "We recently showed that increasing the amount of wheat protein hydrolysate from 35 to 60 g, thereby matching for the leucine content of 35 g whey protein, was able to substantially increase postprandial muscle protein synthesis rates (Gorissen et al. 2016)."

    So this study showed even wheat protein can robustly stimulate MPS, as long as you get enough leucine.

    Attached below is a screenshot of the amino acid content of 150 gram lentils, which provides 2.7 gram leucine. The only EAA that is low is methionine. It provided 0.3 gram. Would this halt MPS? Unlikely, as other studies have shown that as little as 0.14 gram methionine can be enough as long as enough of the other EAAs are present.
    However, not eating 150 grams of lentils won’t get you to MPS levels, while 25g of whey will. Eating a large enough amount, such as your lentil example, can get you there, but you have to consume more grams of protein.

    Another way is to either get a mixture of proteins, or just consume one of the proteins known to be “complete” or “whole” proteins, such as I first advised. Consuming a whole protein is the safest way to get to MPS levels, it certainly doesn’t hurt.

    Nice screenshot, where did you create that chart?
    S: 375 pounds x 1 - 168-pound bodyweight 5/2019
    B: 300 pounds x 1 - 177-pound bodyweight 7/2019
    D: 405 pounds x 1 - 168-pound bodyweight 5/2019
    OHP: 180 pounds x 1 - 168-pound bodyweight 5/2019
    A great guide to nutrition: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=173439001&p=1481919401&viewfull=1#post1481919401
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    Originally Posted by TheUnderdog83 View Post
    Eating a large enough amount, such as your lentil example, can get you there, but you have to consume more grams of protein.
    Yeah, like I've been saying several times:"Meat is still a better choice than lentils, not because the protein is "complete", but because it contains relatively more leucine."

    Another way is to either get a mixture of proteins
    You can mix all you want but if you're not getting ~2.5 gram leucine you won't get a robust MPS cycle.

    or just consume one of the proteins known to be “complete” or “whole” proteins, such as I first advised.
    Complete or incomplete isn't really what seems to matter. Even if you eat only what you call "complete" protein you still need ~2.5 gram leucine to get a robust MPS response.

    On a side note, but important to the context of this thread: while thinking about stimulating MPS may be an interesting strategy for intermediate and advanced lifters, it's probably not anything OP needs to be worried about. If he gets 0.7 gram protein per lb per day (which already includes a safety margin) and his protein sources aren't all soy beans and broccoli he's probably more than fine.

    Now for ambitious intermediate and advanced lifters who like to eat plant based protein meals it may be good advice to recommend them getting at least 2.5 gram leucine per meal. Which isn't really hard but may take some more consideration. Heck I'd say why not shoot for 3 gram if you want to be sure. Same for meat based meals by the way.

    There's a couple of more technicalities why meat has some benefits over lentils by the way, but whether these differences really matter for people who consume enough protein isn't backed up by good evidence.

    Originally Posted by TheUnderdog83 View Post
    Nice screenshot, where did you create that chart?
    www.cronometer.com great website and free app.
    Last edited by Mrpb; 05-02-2019 at 05:23 AM.
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    Is anyone aware of a chart that shows leucine content in variety of meats and for diary? For example, what I am getting at is, would 50g worth of protein from say chicken have more leucine than eating 50g of protein from say extra lean ground beef, turkey, lamb, fish, etc. I imagine one would already be getting a robust MPS response eating that quantity of protein for it not to matter but curious about it anyway, particularly if there would be more benefit to eating a protein source with highest leucine content more frequently.
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    Originally Posted by LedHead89 View Post
    Hey all,

    I’ve been on a journey over the past year to get more muscular and get in better shape.

    The hardest part for me is, find the right foods to eat to get enough protein when I’m in a bulking phase. I found lentils, but only recently have I seemed to discover that the nutritional information I.e. the amount of protein that’s listed on the package drops considerably after cooking them. Because I was under the impression that 100 grams of lentils cooked contained 24g of protein. But something I was reading today says 100g of cooked lentils only has 9g of protein. Does anyone know definitely which of these figures is true for cooked lentils

    Also, if any of you have any meal suggestions that have about 60g of protein in them, I’d love to hear them. Because if cooked lentils only have 9g of protein in them, I’m drastically down in the amount of protein I thought my body was getting.
    Simply go by 100g uncooked lentils for your protein value. When you cook them they absorb water and the 100g will then become more in weight, but you have the same amount of protein. 100g of cooked lentils is a whole different amount.

    Are you using lentils as your main protein source?
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    Yeah, like I've been saying several times:"Meat is still a better choice than lentils, not because the protein is "complete", but because it contains relatively more leucine."


    You can mix all you want but if you're not getting ~2.5 gram leucine you won't get a robust MPS cycle.



    Complete or incomplete isn't really what seems to matter. Even if you eat only what you call "complete" protein you still need ~2.5 gram leucine to get a robust MPS response.

    On a side note, but important to the context of this thread: while thinking about stimulating MPS may be an interesting strategy for intermediate and advanced lifters, it's probably not anything OP needs to be worried about. If he gets 0.7 gram protein per lb per day (which already includes a safety margin) and his protein sources aren't all soy beans and broccoli he's probably more than fine.

    Now for ambitious intermediate and advanced lifters who like to eat plant based protein meals it may be good advice to recommend them getting at least 2.5 gram leucine per meal. Which isn't really hard but may take some more consideration. Heck I'd say why not shoot for 3 gram if you want to be sure. Same for meat based meals by the way.

    There's a couple of more technicalities why meat has some benefits over lentils by the way, but whether these differences really matter for people who consume enough protein isn't backed up by good evidence.



    www.cronometer.com great website and free app.
    Do you have an article showing leucine is truly the only amino acid worth tracking for MPS? This article states all amino acids are required as precursors and a shortage of one could compromise MPS. If the chance is there, why risk not going with a complete protein?
    S: 375 pounds x 1 - 168-pound bodyweight 5/2019
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    D: 405 pounds x 1 - 168-pound bodyweight 5/2019
    OHP: 180 pounds x 1 - 168-pound bodyweight 5/2019
    A great guide to nutrition: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=173439001&p=1481919401&viewfull=1#post1481919401
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    www.cronometer.com great website and free app.
    Thanks, I downloaded the app.
    S: 375 pounds x 1 - 168-pound bodyweight 5/2019
    B: 300 pounds x 1 - 177-pound bodyweight 7/2019
    D: 405 pounds x 1 - 168-pound bodyweight 5/2019
    OHP: 180 pounds x 1 - 168-pound bodyweight 5/2019
    A great guide to nutrition: https://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=173439001&p=1481919401&viewfull=1#post1481919401
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    Originally Posted by TheUnderdog83 View Post
    Do you have an article showing leucine is truly the only amino acid worth tracking for MPS?
    Probably the best proof of concept is the Gorissen study from 2016. In figure 6 it can be seen that wheat protein can even outperform whey protein as long as it contains enough leucine.

    https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/146/9/1651/4584889

    This study also shows rice protein can be as good as whey, as long as you consume enough.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23782948

    And consider this: someone can be eating complete protein and not get enough leucine. They won't stimulate MPS fully. Someone can eat incomplete protein with enough leucine, and still stimulate MPS fully.
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    Mrpb, what's your take on dried spirulina powder for MPS ? 100g of it contains about 5g of leucine, so it seems to be superior but it is a goddamn weed... lol
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    Originally Posted by HeMB View Post
    Mrpb, what's your take on dried spirulina powder for MPS ? 100g of it contains about 5g of leucine, so it seems to be superior but it is a goddamn weed... lol
    I never looked into it. I guess it's going to be costly to get ~3 gram leucine from it?
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    Originally Posted by Mrpb View Post
    I never looked into it. I guess it's going to be costly to get ~3 gram leucine from it?
    yeah, looked up, probably not worth it. Even if you bought in bulk (3 kg), a single portion of the powder (containing 3gram leucine) would cost about 1.25 euro.

    Heard a false rumour it's cheap.
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    The numbers of 6g/100g cooked weight accounts for water absorption.

    100g uncooked doesn't weigh 100g cooked.
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