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  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by johnnydeep1 View Post
    Decades of research on cash transfer programs have found that the only people who work fewer hours when given direct cash transfers are new mothers and kids in school. In several studies, high school graduation rates rose. In some cases, people even work more. Quoting a Harvard and MIT study, “we find no effects of [cash] transfers on work behavior.”

    In our plan, each adult would receive only $12,000 a year. This is barely enough to live on in many places and certainly not enough to afford much in the way of experiences or advancement. To get ahead meaningfully, people will still need to get out there and work.
    People at my job right now will only work part time because they don't want to lose their free food stamps. This is what happens when you give freeloaders free ****. They want more free **** and don't want to work. All of these government programs have done nothing but create a lazy, entitled generation.
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  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by jtaylor2010 View Post
    We won’t have to worry about it because at that point China wrecks our sh!t and takes over.
    At that point, Canada could wreck our sh*t.

    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    where did you get the $3T figure from
    According to Yang, everyone qualifies... it is what makes UBI universal. There are currently 328 millions citizens. Of those citizens 80% of the population would be eligible. The other 20% being underage. That leaves 260 million qualified recipients. Yang also proposed a UBI of 1k per month (12k a year).

    260m X 12k = 3.12 trillion. That is before the cost of agency / oversight.



    So after we eliminate the military, all other welfare programs and add a 10% VAT, how would you suggest we pay for the remaining trillions?
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  3. #33
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    so what happens when inflation hits? i mean, if i knew my customers had an increase of 12k/year, i would be stupid not to increase the price of my goods/services. the same with employment.... if i know all of my potential employees are getting an extra grand a month, i'd lower my wages
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  4. #34
    Registered User acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Bassackwards View Post
    so what happens when inflation hits? i mean, if i knew my customers had an increase of 12k/year, i would be stupid not to increase the price of my goods/services. the same with employment.... if i know all of my potential employees are getting an extra grand a month, i'd lower my wages
    Well that's easy, government controlled pricing.





























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  5. #35
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  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post
    At that point, Canada could wreck our sh*t.

    According to Yang, everyone qualifies... it is what makes UBI universal. There are currently 328 millions citizens. Of those citizens 80% of the population would be eligible. The other 20% being underage. That leaves 260 million qualified recipients. Yang also proposed a UBI of 1k per month (12k a year).

    260m X 12k = 3.12 trillion. That is before the cost of agency / oversight.



    So after we eliminate the military, all other welfare programs and add a 10% VAT, how would you suggest we pay for the remaining trillions?
    Actually, that's not exactly true. If someone is already receiving government assistance, they would have to choose between UBI and the current form of government assistance they're on.

    The technology boom is upon us and UBI is inevitable. You might as well embrace it, as I finally am. I'd rather not be where we are, but again, it's inevitable. You can evolve or be left behind.
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  7. #37
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    Get rid of 3 federal departments, get rid of all welfare, no minimum wage, flat tax, no wealth tax. I would do a UBI if illegals don't get it if those factors would be met
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  8. #38
    Registered User acrawlingchaos's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by HoganIsGOAT View Post
    Actually, that's not exactly true. If someone is already receiving government assistance, they would have to choose between UBI and the current form of government assistance they're on.
    Got it, it will only cost about 2.7 trillion but we can only cut half of welfare, not all of it.

    Net gain = 0

    The technology boom is upon us and UBI is inevitable. You might as well embrace it, as I finally am. I'd rather not be where we are, but again, it's inevitable. You can evolve or be left behind.
    .... or.... or.... hear me out..... or I can vote against it. Not sure where you get this evolve or get left behind nonsense. Such a silly argument.
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  9. #39
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    Originally Posted by HoganIsGOAT View Post
    Actually, that's not exactly true. If someone is already receiving government assistance, they would have to choose between UBI and the current form of government assistance they're on.

    The technology boom is upon us and UBI is inevitable. You might as well embrace it, as I finally am. I'd rather not be where we are, but again, it's inevitable. You can evolve or be left behind.
    This. AI will soon take over

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  10. #40
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    Can you imagine how bad immigration would be? It’s a crisis now, I can’t imagine the chaos if we instituted UBI. It’s a terrible idea.
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  11. #41
    Registered User newcomb12's Avatar
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    Its laughable to suggest our government is capable of making spending cuts anywhere
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  12. #42
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    because they are so good at cutting spending already right...

    https://www.usdebtclock.org/
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  13. #43
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    Originally Posted by rhadam View Post
    Can you imagine how bad immigration would be? It’s a crisis now, I can’t imagine the chaos if we instituted UBI. It’s a terrible idea.
    So let’s build a wall to block them all out before implementing it? 350D chess?
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  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by sandaltan View Post
    where did you get the $3T figure from
    300 million X 12,000 = three trillion six hundred billion
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  15. #45
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    Originally Posted by jeffl1980 View Post
    Because I'm not a poor peasant that needs a handout from the government. How about they take $1000 less from my paycheck?
    As long as you pay 12k or more in taxes a year that’s effectively exactly what this amounts to
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    can you imagine how many people would try to migrate to the U.S. because of this system. I can already see the abuse in the future and prices on everything would go up.
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    Originally Posted by Bassackwards View Post
    so what happens when inflation hits? i mean, if i knew my customers had an increase of 12k/year, i would be stupid not to increase the price of my goods/services. the same with employment.... if i know all of my potential employees are getting an extra grand a month, i'd lower my wages
    in a vacuum you'd do those things, in reality you have to price based on competition and pay your employees enough to actually have employees. In general prices would go up but they wouldn't go up proportional to the increase in income until you hit higher income thresholds. If you're making 30% more than you were before you'd probably come out ahead. If you're making 2% more than you were before you probably don't come out ahead.
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  18. #48
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    Originally Posted by Ikeman83 View Post
    UBI is guaranteed to devalue all savings and destroy the middle class.

    Good luck with retiring comfortably...
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    Originally Posted by miscinbro View Post
    As long as you pay 12k or more in taxes a year that’s effectively exactly what this amounts to
    so then cut out taxes. don't redistribute other people's money. It's literally the stupidest idea. hey...you work and produce goods and services that are valuable to society. Then you will be required, by use of force, to give me (uncle Sam) 24-34% of what you earn, AND THEN, i might just give you a small stipend of that money back...because i'm so generous. just f*ck right off and let us keep the money we actually earn.
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    Originally Posted by rhadam View Post
    Can you imagine how bad immigration would be? It’s a crisis now, I can’t imagine the chaos if we instituted UBI. It’s a terrible idea.
    It would only apply to legal citizens... this would actually help reduce cost with things like illegal immigrants, prison overpopulation and unexpected medical costs that people cant pay for.
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    Originally Posted by jlick View Post
    so then cut out taxes. don't redistribute other people's money. It's literally the stupidest idea. hey...you work and produce goods and services that are valuable to society. Then you will be required, by use of force, to give me (uncle Sam) 24-34% of what you earn, AND THEN, i might just give you a small stipend of that money back...because i'm so generous. just f*ck right off and let us keep the money we actually earn.
    It's not the same at all because the majority of the money will actually go back into the economy not some useless government program. The other side of this is that the super rich do not pay their fair share of taxes. Jeff bezos will never, ever have a taxable event..
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    Originally Posted by johnnydeep1 View Post
    I am a moderate, most certainly not a liberal. I thought the idea of UBI, made popular by Andrew Yang, was crazy too. I then did some research and watched his interview with Joe Rogan. I was convinced.


    Yang also wants to cut spending in OTHER areas to make up for this difference.

    Also unlike other ways of helping the working class, such as tax hicks on business, increasing minimum wage, mandated healthcare etc. this does NOT effect the balance basic accounting formula (assets=liabilities+owners equity) in business.NO new liabilities are created by giving everyone an extra thousand. Business will do BETTER with UBI. IF we cut back on welfare, military , foreign aid, food stamps etc. we can make this work.It works in the richest nation on earth, Qatar, which gives its citizens free money It works in the richest nation on earth, Qatar, which gives its citizens free money. Same with Alaska
    Your whole premise is flawed.

    Ill repeat, when the electorate become big enough to elect enough politicians to pass UBI, then they are big enough to dictate its amount...and if you think that same electorate is going to cut any spending or keep it at its original amount of say 1K a month...then you might be retarded.
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    Originally Posted by RIKTER View Post
    Your whole premise is flawed.

    Ill repeat, when the electorate become big enough to elect enough politicians to pass UBI, then they are big enough to dictate its amount...and if you think that same electorate is going to cut any spending or keep it at its original amount of say 1K a month...then you might be retarded.
    You didn't address the premise at all.. you just strawmaned.
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    They can't get these programs to work at a local level, surely it will work at the national level. Surely.

    You want money, work for it. You want more money, work well and pursue promotion opportunities.
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    UBI doesn't really solve the problems of automation or economic inequality of opportunity. I have no issue funding legit education opportunities, healthcare and food programs for kids, elderly or disabled folks, but I don't support just giving everyone checks. I don't need the government sending me money.
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    Originally Posted by acrawlingchaos View Post

    .... or.... or.... hear me out..... or I can vote against it. Not sure where you get this evolve or get left behind nonsense. Such a silly argument.
    He's referring to the way that AI and new technologies are going to fundamentally affect the way our economy works.
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    Originally Posted by lsiberian View Post
    UBI doesn't really solve the problems of automation or economic inequality of opportunity. I have no issue funding legit education opportunities, healthcare and food programs for kids, elderly or disabled folks, but I don't support just giving everyone checks. I don't need the government sending me money.
    That's cause automation is not a problem at all, job loss as a result of automation is. Technology is either going to work for everyone or for the few and it's amazing to see how many people are voting against themselves. Either that or they dont understand the way things are headed.

    As far as addressing economic inequality how would it not help? For someone making 24k a year people an extra 12k a year is increasing their buying power 50%.
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    Originally Posted by jlick View Post
    so then cut out taxes. don't redistribute other people's money. It's literally the stupidest idea. hey...you work and produce goods and services that are valuable to society. Then you will be required, by use of force, to give me (uncle Sam) 24-34% of what you earn, AND THEN, i might just give you a small stipend of that money back...because i'm so generous. just f*ck right off and let us keep the money we actually earn.
    Ohhh cry me a river, all taxes are redistribution of "your" money that's only made possible by taxes in the first place.
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    We will never have enough money for UBI, but AI and automation killing industries and laying off hundreds of thousands is also inevitable. So pick your poison.
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    Good question OP, seems many ppl already answered so just some quick pointers

    1: It costs too much for any government to afford.
    2: Even if the government could afford it, it would cause such inflation whatever amount you're getting wouldn't be worth anything anymore.
    3: Even if the government could afford it, and somehow there was no inflation, we know from experiments with small groups of people receiving basic income, the first thing they do is cut back on working hours and as such become economically less productive. So if done on a society wide scale, you're going to run into some huge productivity issues.
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