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  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by TAWS6 View Post
    Another flaw with splits is that everyone "needs" to split up their upper body into bits and pieces but for some reason legs are never split. Lower body is almost always neglected on a body part split.
    Oh I split mine into one day for glutes/hammies and one day for quads/calves. Two other days are chest/shoulders/tri and back/bi. Four days total and works great.
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  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    .

    In which case well...
    You're going to have to tell Thor and Eddie Hall they are small guys cuz they don't bro split... Or every other strongman ever... Or weightlifter....
    Cmon i thought you were smarter than this....

    Using world class strong men with god tier genetics eating 10K calories as as examples for your argument of how to get "big" is as bad as me using Phil Heath as an example of why bro splits are better for everyone wanting to look like a bodybuilder....

    I agree that it doesn't have to be one or the other, and there is no perfect split for everyone
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  3. #33
    Registered User TAWS6's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by BenMcLeodNZ View Post
    Bro Splits are the best. That's why guys who do it are on average much bigger than guys on novice programs their whole life.
    A novice program is meant to be run for 4-6 months on average...
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  4. #34
    Registered User WolfRose7's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jk202 View Post
    Cmon i thought you were smarter than this....

    Using world class strong men with god tier genetics eating 10K calories as as examples for your argument of how to get "big" is as bad as me using Phil Heath as an example of why bro splits are better for everyone wanting to look like a bodybuilder....

    I agree that it doesn't have to be one or the other, and there is no perfect split for everyone
    Thats fair

    Was more to point out the delusion of full body is for newbs, splits are for advanced.

    Strongmen were just an easy example, not just the elite, but local level and small national guys.. The nature of the sport almost demands full body training when they have such varied competitions. And nearly all of them are jacked as hell, even the more amateur guys.

    You are right though about using an elite to guide anyone's training, I wouldn't advise people to copy Eddie halls mental programming.
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  5. #35
    Registered User jk202's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    Thats fair

    Was more to point out the delusion of full body is for newbs, splits are for advanced.

    Strongmen were just an easy example, not just the elite, but local level and small national guys.. The nature of the sport almost demands full body training when they have such varied competitions. And nearly all of them are jacked as hell, even the more amateur guys.

    You are right though about using an elite to guide anyone's training, I wouldn't advise people to copy Eddie halls mental programming.
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  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by gcoulson View Post
    Any scientific data to back that up?
    Unfortunately, a decent study in this would cost a million bucks or more, and most people wouldn't believe it anyway. Furthermore anyone to do a study on something like this has an ulterior motive and easily skews the results. For example, something about scientific data that is little known is: when studies are done, the Aim/Hypothesis/Scope/Recorded Findings etc are always written after data has already been collected and analyzed, so they can steer it towards what they want to publish. Sometimes the original subject changes massively because they need to find something to fit their narrative or they lose funding. A shame, but the only thing to do is not put much faith in them.
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  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by johndoethethird View Post
    Demibrah, I will get back to you when I have another 1yr into training and on a bulk (only 1yr in consistently ATM and mostly maintaining or cutting)

    Both your and jk202 "splits" are highly customized and both of you have a good amount of years under your belts (so that's not even debatable)

    Can noobs run the exact same programs ? probably
    Will they make gains on just about any program ? ofcourse they will

    I was just trying to point out on having the basic fundamentals of strength-hypertrophy with enough volume while managing fatique avoiding injuries etc etc aka "trying" to perfect the actual programs.

    90%+ of people in the gym run bro-splits probably close to 80% if not more of those IMO aren't maximizing the potential they can get with modifications.

    I'm open to hearing peoples opinion and I listen to the reasoning even if it doesn't make sense or I might not fully agree.
    Your splits shouldn’t be based around maximizing your conditioning until you’ve reached a point that giving your all in a single session isn’t enough to make you progress imo focus strength and form until you reach your first real plateau aka months of very little progress

    Bro splits work if you’re willing to do high amounts of intense work in a session, full body works if you do moderate work consistently, ppl is in the middle of those. If you do a body part once a week and it won’t get anything but tertiary work from work done in other muscle groups then you need to account for that in how difficult you’re making your sessions. You also need to account for how much workload a muscle group can take. I do shoulders twice because shoulders are a small muscle group with fast recovery time and therefore benefit from high intensity and frequent work. Progressive overload through weight, volume, or cutting recovery times is infinitely more important than when you’re hitting what unless you’re putting yourself in line for an injury
    Hm.

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  8. #38
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    by bigconanman

    Originally Posted by MrCarrot View Post
    I always used to do a bro-split in my teens and twenties. This time around I'm doing upper two days a week and lower two days a week. I have to say that the vast majority of people I see in the gym appear to be doing some kind of bro split - not all of them but most of them I would say. I can't really say what has been most effective for me as my diet has been drastically different each time I've gotten into lifting.
    All you hear nowadays is how full body training is superior...how you have to train each bodypart multiple times per week...That might be the case with beginners or people with under a few years of training...but if you're an experienced lifter, 5+ or more years, bodypart split routines are the best....there's reason why just about every single pro bodybuilder uses a bodypart split...show me one pro that does full body...just one...or a top amateur....they don't. and all these so called studies that have come out, that allegedly show the superiority of training each body part more than once per week is better for growth, is crap...these studies are not done on experienced lifters...the people doing the study consider anyone who's been lifting over a year as experienced....

    when you a newbie, you haven't yet built up much strength and aren't able to generate alot of intensity. but as you get stronger, and train to failure, your body needs way more recovery...if guys taking tons of steroids need that recovery, imagine what naturals need...i have tried every type of training there is...and I fell for the train each part more frequently rage, and all it did was burn me out...made me smaller and weaker...and i'm not natural either...the moment I went back to my train each body part a workout, my gains came back...i was able to recover. Again, full body are for newbies..and a newbie to me is anyone that has under 3 years of training....
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  9. #39
    Registered User bigconan66's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by WolfRose7 View Post
    Thats fair

    Was more to point out the delusion of full body is for newbs, splits are for advanced.

    Strongmen were just an easy example, not just the elite, but local level and small national guys.. The nature of the sport almost demands full body training when they have such varied competitions. And nearly all of them are jacked as hell, even the more amateur guys.

    You are right though about using an elite to guide anyone's training, I wouldn't advise people to copy Eddie halls mental programming.
    full body is simply not best for experienced lifters, in regards to bodybuilding...just my opinion and from my own personal experience...I have tried training many different ways...and what has always worked best is the body part per day training...it simply fit my recovery ability perfectly...i do just one muscle per workout, 2 on arms...and I don't burn out...I can't imagine doing the entire body in one workout...ive been tired just doing chest and bi's...which is what I used to do..that got me tired...doing your entire body, not a chance.
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  10. #40
    Train hard play harder Tommy W.'s Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigconan66 View Post
    All you hear nowadays is how full body training is superior...how you have to train each bodypart multiple times per week...That might be the case with beginners or people with under a few years of training...but if you're an experienced lifter, 5+ or more years, bodypart split routines are the best....there's reason why just about every single pro bodybuilder uses a bodypart split...show me one pro that does full body...just one...or a top amateur....they don't. and all these so called studies that have come out, that allegedly show the superiority of training each body part more than once per week is better for growth, is crap...these studies are not done on experienced lifters...the people doing the study consider anyone who's been lifting over a year as experienced....

    when you a newbie, you haven't yet built up much strength and aren't able to generate alot of intensity. but as you get stronger, and train to failure, your body needs way more recovery...if guys taking tons of steroids need that recovery, imagine what naturals need...i have tried every type of training there is...and I fell for the train each part more frequently rage, and all it did was burn me out...made me smaller and weaker...and i'm not natural either...the moment I went back to my train each body part a workout, my gains came back...i was able to recover. Again, full body are for newbies..and a newbie to me is anyone that has under 3 years of training....
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  11. #41
    Replies in 1/2 hr - 3 day GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    Jeff Nippard over here talking about 5-day fullbody.
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  12. #42
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    What's with ppl insisting their routine is the best and the rest suck (esp when they're pushing a bro split or 5-day FB)?

    Originally Posted by bigconan66 View Post
    i have tried every type of training there is...and I fell for the train each part more frequently rage, and all it did was burn me out...made me smaller and weaker...and i'm not natural either...the moment I went back to my train each body part a workout, my gains came back...i was able to recover. Again, full body are for newbies..and a newbie to me is anyone that has under 3 years of training....
    Ppl are free to do whatever they want with their bodies, but IDK why someone who isn't natural wants to dish out advice on what works for everyone.

    Someone who's tried "every type of training there is" should understand that the choice isn't just between a bro split or FB routine. There's lots of other variations that involve muscle groups > 1x/week but aren't FB every workout.

    If an experienced lifter feels a bro split works best for them that's fine, but anyone that gets smaller and weaker for any routine that hits muscle groups > 1x/week doesn't know how to design a workout.
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  13. #43
    Replies in 1/2 hr - 3 day GeneralSerpant's Avatar
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    I think the question is what it is that you benefit from low frequency.
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  14. #44
    Registered User TAWS6's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    Jeff Nippard over here talking about 5-day fullbody.
    He defended bro splits for a while as well. Now hes back to the other extreme. Typical.

    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    I think the question is what it is that you benefit from low frequency.
    Not really sure. I don't think a muscle group will ever need a full 7 days to recover.
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  15. #45
    Registered User TAWS6's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bigconan66 View Post
    full body is simply not best for experienced lifters, in regards to bodybuilding...just my opinion and from my own personal experience...I have tried training many different ways...and what has always worked best is the body part per day training...it simply fit my recovery ability perfectly...i do just one muscle per workout, 2 on arms...and I don't burn out...I can't imagine doing the entire body in one workout...ive been tired just doing chest and bi's...which is what I used to do..that got me tired...doing your entire body, not a chance.
    I run an upper/lower split and i'm over the 3/4/5 plate standard. Seems to be working well. I don't feel like I need to split it up anymore than that. Full body would be a lot though.
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  16. #46
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    Haven't posted on here a while... but regarding the volume > frequency comments.. volume is, for many, a variable tied to frequency. Unless you're spending two hours in a gym per session, increased frequency (2-3x a week) is a more efficient path to higher volume for a given muscle group.
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    Originally Posted by GeneralSerpant View Post
    I think the question is what it is that you benefit from low frequency.
    Originally Posted by bigconan66 View Post
    as you get stronger, and train to failure, your body needs way more recovery...if guys taking tons of steroids need that recovery, imagine what naturals need
    The theory apparently is that if you're strong, each muscle needs 7 days of recovery, and that's with added help. So experienced naturals would hit each muscle group only once every 2 weeks or so for optimal recovery and growth. Ultimate bro split.
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  18. #48
    Registered User TAWS6's Avatar
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    I also wanted to add that i'm not sure why so many people think natural bodybuilders train with such a low frequency. Every natural bodybuilder from 3DMJ that I follow either runs an U/L or PPL split, or a hybrid of the two. Either way its 2x per week.
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  19. #49
    Han shot first! TolerantLactose's Avatar
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    This thread needs less frequency. It hasn't fully recovered yet.
    I can tell time. Time cannot tell me.

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  20. #50
    Registered User bigbom77's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by ycpspartan View Post
    Over the past few years I've heard a lot about the importance of training frequency i.e. training each muscle twice per week, the benefits of minimalist training (power building), etc, but I still see a lot of 4-5 day split routines floating around.

    My question is, can naturals benefit from a 4-5 day split or is that a serious misconception in the"bodybuilding/ training community"? I can't imagine that many people are just plain wrong to waste time on splits, but maybe they are?
    It all depends on your goals and also the time you have available to train. Like most people i work all week Monday to Friday, but find going the gym before i start works for me, but everyone is different and there is no "1 size fits all". Heres my split;

    Mon - Bi's and Tri's
    Tues - Shoulders / Abs
    Wed - Legs
    Thurs - Back / Abs
    Friday - Chest
    Sat - Deadlifts / Abs
    Sun - Rest

    If i was to tweak it i could leave out the Saturday and Abs and do the deadlifts on leg day Wednesday.
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  21. #51
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    Imo a bro split is perfect for anyone over 3 + years of training. I did full body the first year which is all about gaining size and strength, I think full body's are best for this as it focuses on the main compounds and the frequency is 2 - 3 times a week, perfect for making the most of the newbie gains. Once this stops upper lower or PPL is great to get the extra frequency and volume in but again gains will slow. I then think a bro split is perfect and is the end goal, I currently do 1 - 2 compound movement per muscle group and then 2 - 4 isolations after that, I currently do chest/tris back/bis shoulders/arms legs. Gains after 3 years are so slow that any programme you do imo won't make much difference but the bro split is the best for advanced lifters to make the most of the volume and really hit that body part.

    Also you do hit the other body parts more than once if you pick the correct exercises, for example shoulder day, OHP hits the upper chest, back day I do face pulls, this hits rear delts, leg day RDL which hits the lower back and traps. As long as you structure it right you don't need to worry about getting enough frequency. Hope this helps
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