Non periodized training vs periodization training for hypertrophy?

[GetReadyPhil]

What is best? if your goal is hypetrophy would focusing on having enough volume and working hard enough, while increasing volume and intensity when you are able too be enough? or should you use a periodized system?

What are the most important factors for hypetrophy?

What type off periodization would probarly be best for an bodybuilder?

[sooby]

I think it's easier to keep track and focus on certain micro goals if you periodize your training, i.e having a volume accumulation block going down all the way to mostly strength. Perhaps also fatigue management. But I think some people who use "non-periodized" training intuitively actually periodize their training.

there isn't really any best way, people will respond differently to the same lifting routine, especially past the novice phase.

[SuffolkPunch]

There's no firm evidence that it has an advantage from the trials that have been run. At a personal level, if you find it helps to keep it interesting and challenging then it will probably be good for you. If you find it gets in the way then don't use it.

[tlifter]

All training that is organized is periodized. The structure of the training can vary from linear, RPE, undulating, congruent, etc. I personally think percentage based training is the best for all types of lifting and you can use percentages with most of the types of periodization I listed above.

For bodybuilding you can use percentages to determine the weights and reps. You can design it so you are guaranteed to miss reps, which can challenge the muscle then you do drop sets. Keep in mind I’m not a bodybuilder, but all goals need to be systematic in one way or another or else you will stall.

[Luca2]

At a personal level, if you find it helps to keep it interesting and challenging then it will probably be good for you.

Yes. Personally I really like block periodization because alternating volume and strength as the main focus keeps my training from becoming stale. Not quite sure it's necessary to make progress "in a vacuum" though - that is, without the human elements of boredom/burn-out. People will talk about desensitization and re-sensitization to different stimuli but not sure how solid the science is on that front.

[GetReadyPhil]

Could you guys post an example off periodization towards hypertropy goals?

Also i know that volume is the nr 1 key to hypertrophy, what would you say is the most important part off an program for hypertrophy goals? Should the main focus be on increasing volume over time? 2-3 frequency a week per muscle groups and keeping the weights between 60% off 1RM to 80% off 1RM

Whats most important?

[FaIIen]

Could you guys post an example off periodization towards hypertropy goals?

Also i know that volume is the nr 1 key to hypertrophy, what would you say is the most important part off an program for hypertrophy goals? Should the main focus be on increasing volume over time? 2-3 frequency a week per muscle groups and keeping the weights between 60% off 1RM to 80% off 1RM

Whats most important?

This should sum it up: https://www.dropbox.com/s/9de9fjwc7h...aphic.pdf?dl=0

[SuffolkPunch]

Could you guys post an example off periodization towards hypertropy goals?

Also i know that volume is the nr 1 key to hypertrophy, what would you say is the most important part off an program for hypertrophy goals? Should the main focus be on increasing volume over time? 2-3 frequency a week per muscle groups and keeping the weights between 60% off 1RM to 80% off 1RM

Whats most important?

I like to periodise volume - by adding drop sets over a mesocycle.

[GetReadyPhil]

Thank you guys, so basically you start at a lower volume, and over a few weeks you increase the volume more and more, the deload and start over again with more weight, different exercies, rep ranges or something in that line?

Also how important is adding weight to the bar and getting stronger when it comes to hypertrophy?

[SuffolkPunch]

Also how important is adding weight to the bar and getting stronger when it comes to hypertrophy?

Very

You should be able to lift more weight or at least do more reps in your working sets after a cycle of this kind of training. If not, you probably didn't gain muscle.

Think of it more like a consequence of correct training rather than a cause.

[GetReadyPhil]

One more question, when cutting, is the total volume or intensity more important for keeping your muscles? I know that when it comes to hypetrophy the volume is very important, but i see that when people are cutting they usually focus mostly on keeping the weight on the bar, and drop the total volume a little, what is best?

Also anyone know any good books about periodization for hypertrophy (bodybuilding)

[sooby]

One more question, when cutting, is the total volume or intensity more important for keeping your muscles? I know that when it comes to hypetrophy the volume is very important, but i see that when people are cutting they usually focus mostly on keeping the weight on the bar, and drop the total volume a little, what is best?

Also anyone know any good books about periodization for hypertrophy (bodybuilding)

From my own experiences intensity is more important, and many will also say the same thing. It's a common misconception that you should switch to higher reps while on a cut. Ideally you want to cut on the same volume as well but deep into a cut what would normally be a good amount of volume would be overreaching pretty hard. If this is the case, eliminate light accessory work like lateral raises, tricep pushdowns, bicep curls or if you want to maintain adaptations do 1 one "heavy" set of each.

Eric Helm's books on training are helpful when it comes to understanding periodization as well as articles by Greg Nuckols.

[SuffolkPunch]

One more question, when cutting, is the total volume or intensity more important for keeping your muscles? I know that when it comes to hypetrophy the volume is very important, but i see that when people are cutting they usually focus mostly on keeping the weight on the bar, and drop the total volume a little, what is best?

Also anyone know any good books about periodization for hypertrophy (bodybuilding)

If you are able to sustain the same workload you did when gaining mass then that should be more than enough to simply maintain. If not, then reduce volume but maintain the weights used and the exertion levels used.

[GetReadyPhil]

Thanks guys.

Also what type off periodization would be best towards hypetrophy? I see that Eric Helms recommend linear periodization with volume increasing every four weeks, but someone like Mike Israetel increase volume each week.

As increasing volume is very important for hypertrophy, wouldent a periodization type that has you increasing volume every week be better vs every 4th week, or would it basically not make that big of an difference?

[GetReadyPhil]

Thanks guys.

Also what type off periodization would be best towards hypetrophy? I see that Eric Helms recommend linear periodization with volume increasing every four weeks, but someone like Mike Israetel increase volume each week.

As increasing volume is very important for hypertrophy, wouldent a periodization type that has you increasing volume every week be better vs every 4th week, or would it basically not make that big of an difference?

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[daghetto]

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Yea but periodization isn’t really a big factor when your training to size so it doesn’t really matter. You could do non periodized training and get the same results as someone who periodized, If we are talking hypertrophy.
Eric helms is nice, but I find it hard to increase weights 5 pounds a month sometimes doing that 4 week linear periodization. And when your decreasing reps and increasing weight, your still decreasing volume which isn’t what you wanna do when trying to get bigger; so mikes style of increasing sets, therefore increasing volume over time, works nicer cause you can push yourself to the edge before deloading.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bujx383AJwN/?hl=en


Read the above insta post ^

[OldFartTom]

I'm going to use the word periodization to mean training in blocks, like 4 weeks of this and then focus on 4 weeks of that (etc etc) to simplify the answer, or it's going to take too long

Depends where you are now!

While you can adjust and adapt (like getting bigger) by gradually increasing weight or reps (or some tactic of the two) then do that. This will give you fastest progress... which is what we all want

Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication (Leonardo da Vinci)
Simplest is usually quickest (me)

When your training and adaption gets to the point you just can't make effective progress like that any more, then you are forced into... using the slower and more complicated approaches like periodization. Don't use it unless you need to, for reasons just given

There is a principle known as "KISS" (keep it simple stupid). The principle works for me

[GetReadyPhil]

So how would an non periodizated program look like? Would you basically just run an split and just add weight and reps when you are able to? or would you have an progression scheme you follow?

[rlefebvr]

When your training and adaption gets to the point you just can't make effective progress like that any more, then you are forced into... using the slower and more complicated approaches like periodization. Don't use it unless you need to, for reasons just given

This gets right to the point.

I have done both and I saw no difference at all in the final result. At some point, it becomes relevant, but not for a very long time.

If it keeps you training, then go for it. Won't hurt you, just won't add anything to your results.

The program I was on added a lot of extra volume that was absolutely not necessary at my level. (late beginner - early intermediate)

Stick with the standards, they work for a reason. No need to complicate things for nothing. (although we all seem to do it)

[sooby]

Thanks guys.

Also what type off periodization would be best towards hypetrophy? I see that Eric Helms recommend linear periodization with volume increasing every four weeks, but someone like Mike Israetel increase volume each week.

As increasing volume is very important for hypertrophy, wouldent a periodization type that has you increasing volume every week be better vs every 4th week, or would it basically not make that big of an difference?

they both work well.

non-periodization is a bit of a misnomer, almost any program is periodized to some degree although we may not recognize it as so.

Look at Fierce 5, Stronglifts, almost any novice program. The very fact that each of these programs use a stalling protocol where you reduce the weights is periodization in and of itself. Using different rep ranges which is intuitively done by most lifters within a week is undulating periodization. By the very definition, if you are changing variables in your training program you are periodizing (which you have to do anyways if you want to progress). This is a consequence of getting bigger and stronger over time, you handle heavier weights.

[GetReadyPhil]

Thanks guys, what system would probarly be best to use to dictate what weight to use when goal is hypertrophy? RIR, %1RM, or the RPE Scale?

[GetReadyPhil]

Thanks guys, what system would probarly be best to use to dictate what weight to use when goal is hypertrophy? RIR, %1RM, or the RPE Scale?

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[GetReadyPhil]

Thanks guys, what system would probarly be best to use to dictate what weight to use when goal is hypertrophy? RIR, %1RM, or the RPE Scale?

Guys?
Also is there any good DUP programs aimed towards bodybuilding goals?

[daghetto]

Guys?
Also is there any good DUP programs aimed towards bodybuilding goals?

RIR, that’s what is most popular cause you can do it for higher reps too. Dup isn’t needed for pure hypertrophy prices
, it’s better to focus on volume than one day having a strength day with low reps and high weight and another day having a hypertrophy day with high reps and low weights. That will reduce volume. Periodization isn’t really needed if your goal is just hypertrophy, there’s studies done showing no difference in size gains. What will help you for “periodization” is maybe volume cycling (increasing volume over time in sets till you start to lose performance, then Deload and build back up again from few sets to more and more)

[superman704]

Getting progressively stronger is the most important thing for hypertrophy to occur

[superman704]

Bottom line, your chest is going to be a lot bigger if you can bench 315 lbs than if you can only lift 225 lbs and your biceps are going to be a lot bigger if you can alternate dumbell curl 90 lb dumbells for 10 reps, than if you can only alternate dumbell curl 30 lbs for 10 reps

[GetReadyPhil]

So i have been looking at some programs that has you increasing volume in blocks, the deloading before they go trought an block off less volume and more intensity.

My question is, after a block or two with an hypetrophy phase where volume is increased weekly, why does most program like this have an block off strength training and lower volume after the hypetrophy phase? whats the sience behind this? also when going from high volume to lower volume and high intensity, does the high intensity with lower reps maintenance the muscles mass that you got from the volume block? Why does strength training after an volume block maintain your muscles so good? Is it that you are lifting closer to your 1rm? And your body has to hold on to the muscles mass you got from the hypetrophy volume phase?

[sooby]

So i have been looking at some programs that has you increasing volume in blocks, the deloading before they go trought an block off less volume and more intensity.

My question is, after a block or two with an hypetrophy phase where volume is increased weekly, why does most program like this have an block off strength training and lower volume after the hypetrophy phase? whats the sience behind this? also when going from high volume to lower volume and high intensity, does the high intensity with lower reps maintenance the muscles mass that you got from the volume block? Why does strength training after an volume block maintain your muscles so good? Is it that you are lifting closer to your 1rm? And your body has to hold on to the muscles mass you got from the hypetrophy volume phase?

This is how powerlifters do it although many have adapted it towards general strength/size aka powerbuilding.

You first go through a phase where you try and build the most amount of muscle possible through higher volume and moderate intensities. Potential strength follows size, generally not the other way around. A bigger muscle is a stronger muscle. Probably also develop some work capacity as well.

Then when you go through a strength phase, you are trying to build peak strength, aka, your 1RM. Because a powerlifting meet is all about your 1RM. If you go for a strength phase first then hypertrophy it makes zero sense because you will be detrained from your strength phase and likely be more fatigued due to higher volume.

You will maintain your muscle mass from the hypertrophy phase. Muscle mass is hard to lose unless you don't get adequate nutrition or stop training altogether for months. Lifting heavy is the best way to maintain muscle mass, might be just broscience but I think it is due to the ability of heavier weights activating most if not all of your motor units alot easier. The body has no reason to shed muscle mass if you are subjecting it to a "heavy" stimulus that activates all muscle fibers.

Of course you don't have to separate your training into hypertrophy or strength training blocks at all. You simply run a program till it no longer works, change a few variables such as exercise selection, volume, rep selection, intensity, etc. Run it again then reassess in an infinite loop. However, it is probably wise to go through phases as you can organize your training better and nothing works forever, for example if you've been doing 8-12 reps in the 70-80% range, you can likely benefit from subjecting your muscles to a different stimulus by doing 4-8 reps in the 80-90% rep range, forcing your muscles into adapting to a novel stimulus.

[GetReadyPhil]

Thanks guys, are there any good hypertrophy programs around? for an interdemiate lifter

[GetReadyPhil]

Thanks guys, are there any good hypertrophy programs around? for an interdemiate lifter

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