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  1. #1
    Registered User sy2502's Avatar
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    young people an music

    I don't have kids so I am interested to hear the perspective of those who do.

    When I was growing up, music was about the pains of growing up, rebellion against the education system, the parents, against the system, etc. Think of Pink Floyd's The Wall, punk rock, grunge. Music was against conformity, pushing boundaries, etc.

    Maybe I don't follow modern music enough, but I don't get the same attitude from it. It's about pimping and making money and big butts. Which is weird because if there's a time in which kids are being pressured into being cookie cutter, and indoctrinated, and placed on a hamster wheel since they are in diapers to get in the right daycare to get in the right primary school to get in the right high school to get in the right college to get the right job is now. They have helicopter parents that organize every second of their day and don't leave them alone ever. And political correctness telling them what they can and cannot say, do or not do, and all that stuff. In my area kids kill themselves in record numbers, and there are so many colleagues and friends whose kid has or has had an eating disorder, self harm, or other mental health issues. Unless I am simply ignorant, I am not aware modern music deals with any of this.

    First of all, am I right on this? And second, if I am, why do you think kids have completely lost their will to stand up to the system?
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    Originally Posted by sy2502 View Post
    I don't have kids so I am interested to hear the perspective of those who do.

    When I was growing up, music was about the pains of growing up, rebellion against the education system, the parents, against the system, etc. Think of Pink Floyd's The Wall, punk rock, grunge. Music was against conformity, pushing boundaries, etc.

    Maybe I don't follow modern music enough, but I don't get the same attitude from it. It's about pimping and making money and big butts. Which is weird because if there's a time in which kids are being pressured into being cookie cutter, and indoctrinated, and placed on a hamster wheel since they are in diapers to get in the right daycare to get in the right primary school to get in the right high school to get in the right college to get the right job is now. They have helicopter parents that organize every second of their day and don't leave them alone ever. And political correctness telling them what they can and cannot say, do or not do, and all that stuff. In my area kids kill themselves in record numbers, and there are so many colleagues and friends whose kid has or has had an eating disorder, self harm, or other mental health issues. Unless I am simply ignorant, I am not aware modern music deals with any of this.

    First of all, am I right on this? And second, if I am, why do you think kids have completely lost their will to stand up to the system?
    I can’t address the music part too much.

    But kids don’t have to stand for anything because their parents are there (in many cases) to do it for them. Some even pay to get them into the best schools.

    I work in education. My parents and the school when I was a kid, were a team. Not like that so much anymore. It’s no longer a nurturing environment (again MY opinion), but an enabling environment.

    For those hard of reading, this is MY opinion only.

    My kids love 70s and 80s music, so there is that.
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    Registered User 7Seconds's Avatar
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    There is plenty of amazing music being made today that does speak to many issues going on today. But thanks to the internet, music today is more diverse and accessible than it's ever been. We have more music at our fingertips than we've ever had before. That's lead to a couple of things:

    1. ⁠Radio is consolidating. Since anyone with more than a cursory interest in music has a million places to listen that are better than the radio, the radio must appeal to surface level listeners all the time. That means it's playing either 1. classics or 2. ALL POP FOREVER. What you hear on the radio feels like it must be the mainstream music of today, but it's much, much more diverse than that.
    2. ⁠It's entirely possible for an artist to be popular and successful that you haven't even heard of. Because music is so accessible and the radio is perhaps the most limited way of accessing music, it takes a more active approach to find the music you want to listen to. If you haven't gone looking for it, lots of music is going to fly right past you.
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    Nihilist Karl_Hungus's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sy2502 View Post
    And second, if I am, why do you think kids have completely lost their will to stand up to the system?
    I don't think they have lost the will because the desire isn't there in first place. After the Harvard Halloween costume fracas a couple of years ago, one of the professors noted a fundamental shift in student attitudes. Rather than being anti-authoritarian and wishing for independence, students want authoritative enforcement of discourse and behavior -- and actively seek to align themselves with those very authority figures of whom they regard as protectors.
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    It's quite a shame that among the college aged kids (especially in the Bay area), free speech is now viewed as an excuse to be a bigot LMFAO. Of course there are people who misuse free speech but they take a blanket approach to everything.

    I think that's the main problem. It's not that some of these new, progressive ideas (safe spaces, trigger warnings, etc) are bad concepts, it's that they apply them everywhere. For example, a trigger warning for a joke about ****philia or sexual assault is very warranted because many adults today who might see it have been molested as kids or raped as adults and they're trying really hard to heal. But a trigger warning for a joke about a disease because it will upset people who lost family members due to that disease is going too far. I have cancer in my family. I watched 2 of my cousins slowly die of cancer. I watched my favorite uncle die of cancer. I'm deathly afraid that I'll one day get cancer. But I don't expect Family Guy to have a warning on their "Peter has prostate cancer" episode. In fact, I'll even enjoy a good cancer joke.

    So that's the nuance that these youngsters don't understand.
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    Registered User sy2502's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Karl_Hungus View Post
    I don't think they have lost the will because the desire isn't there in first place. After the Harvard Halloween costume fracas a couple of years ago, one of the professors noted a fundamental shift in student attitudes. Rather than being anti-authoritarian and wishing for independence, students want authoritative enforcement of discourse and behavior -- and actively seek to align themselves with those very authority figures of whom they regard as protectors.
    I noticed that too. The only difference I can think is that when I grew up parents were authority figures, they were a pain in the azz, they were always telling you things you couldn't do. Now parents are their kids' best friends, they indulge them in everything, they buy them stuff before the kid even asks or wants it, they give them money, drive them around like chauffeurs. There's nothing really to rebel against, since your parents are there to serve and revere you. Maybe that's why they like authoritarianism so much: those who should be authority figures in their lives aren't, and maybe they crave some authority and order and rules.

    But as I said, if there ever was a time to rebel, this is even more the time than when I was growing up. Remember the song "Welcome to the Machine"? I think of that every time I hear parents say they are paying ridiculous mortgages for a chitty house just to be in the right school district. A colleague's kid just started high school, and she is planning every detail of every class he's going to take, and every extra curricular activity, and every volunteering and every sport and every musical instrument and foreign language he's going to learn to get the best points to get into the best university.

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    Rekisteröity Käyttäjä Cass40's Avatar
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    I think there are some like "childish Gambino" that bring up societal issues but most rappers are not that edumacated and their lyrics come from the streets and their environment.

    There are some like Eminem rapping about his painful experiences and it's real since it's about addictions, poverty and the things that are real issues in America now.

    I think the old school hippie rebellion, don't trust anyone over 30, is not gonna happen but there are different issues and I'm sure it will show in music.

    And I don't have kids, either so I have no idea...
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    Rekisteröity Käyttäjä Cass40's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by sy2502 View Post
    I noticed that too. The only difference I can think is that when I grew up parents were authority figures, they were a pain in the azz, they were always telling you things you couldn't do. Now parents are their kids' best friends, they indulge them in everything, they buy them stuff before the kid even asks or wants it, they give them money, drive them around like chauffeurs. There's nothing really to rebel against, since your parents are there to serve and revere you. Maybe that's why they like authoritarianism so much: those who should be authority figures in their lives aren't, and maybe they crave some authority and order and rules.

    But as I said, if there ever was a time to rebel, this is even more the time than when I was growing up. Remember the song "Welcome to the Machine"? I think of that every time I hear parents say they are paying ridiculous mortgages for a chitty house just to be in the right school district. A colleague's kid just started high school, and she is planning every detail of every class he's going to take, and every extra curricular activity, and every volunteering and every sport and every musical instrument and foreign language he's going to learn to get the best points to get into the best university.

    I 100% agree that a change has been made. It used to be you had a mis-behaving kid and everyone would say, "Well, sh*t, what did the Good Mr. and Mrs. Smith do to deserve such a naughty child as Johnny".

    Now we see the same kid and we say, "Damn, what did Johnny do to deserve such neglectful, uninformed parents as Mr. and Mrs. Smith".

    And we say these things with...zero information. You see a kid acting out in public? Well, its the parent's fault. You see someone talking back, going through a phase, overly energetic, too social, not social enough...why aren't the parents handling that? Why aren't they helping their kid?

    And yet 40 years ago we'd ask why that kid can't get his act together, find jesus, get a job, get right and act straight.

    The way we socially allocate blame will almost always perfectly map to how we take on responsibility. If everything is a parent's fault, then it must be in their control. If you send that message, it’s not surprising that a generation of parents responds with hyper vigilance. After all...it's their fault.

    We socially over-corrected. And this is the result.
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    Registered User 7Seconds's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Cass40 View Post
    I think there are some like "childish Gambino" that bring up societal issues but most rappers are not that edumacated and their lyrics come from the streets and their environment.

    There are some like Eminem rapping about his painful experiences and it's real since it's about addictions, poverty and the things that are real issues in America now.

    I think the old school hippie rebellion, don't trust anyone over 30, is not gonna happen but there are different issues and I'm sure it will show in music.

    And I don't have kids, either so I have no idea...
    There are some really good artists in the realm of “conscious” hip hop but no it probably never will be radio popular. I don’t necessarily think for the reasons you give but maybe because many people listen to hip-hop or any music as a way to escape or enjoy themselves, they don't wanna be reminded of all the negative things going on in the world all the time. Also a lot of artists go where the money is, and being controversial isn't a great way to make money especially if your signed to a label that has to worry about negative press.
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    try electronic music, its about sound resonating with your soul, aka drugs and sex

    edit: I know this is O35 forum, so for you married folk, I'm telling you... if you want to relight a spark in your marriage or life, have a night in with your partner and play with some lsd or mushrooms and your favorite genre of music. If you're feeling adventurous, try some of the newer stuff
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    Originally Posted by 7Seconds View Post
    If everything is a parent's fault, then it must be in their control. If you send that message, it’s not surprising that a generation of parents responds with hyper vigilance. After all...it's their fault.

    We socially over-corrected. And this is the result.
    That's a very interesting observation. Speaking for myself, my parents raised me with a parenting style that sits somewhere between benign neglect and criminally irresponsible, but overall they didn't feel the need to be always present. I can't count the number of times my mom kicked me out of the house just so she didn't have to see my face, as long as I was back around dinner time. I could have been kidnapped and cut to pieces and she wouldn't have known where to look. I wonder at what point the shift to "I must be there all the time or I am a bad parent" happened.
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    Its always been the same. I remember my parent hating rock and roll. I am sure their parents hated my parents music as well. Its always the decline of society, blah blah.

    I have no issue with hip hop that seems so popular with young people but for me it doesnt speak to my culture. I am not nor have I even been from the hood or even in a hood so culturally its a different world for me. Not that its bad, its just different.

    I feel sorry for young guys nowadays having to listen music that does not reflect their culture. At least back in the day we had bands like van halen and Ted Nugent and such which spoke to us.

    It would be like moving to China and having to listen to that weird twangy guitar stuff they have there. I guess its ok but not my thing at all.
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    Originally Posted by Vampirelol View Post
    try electronic music, its about sound resonating with your soul,

    I listen to all the newer stuff, My phone has more edm music than anything else. Big David Guetta fan... I love that $hit.
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    Registered User sy2502's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by crupiea View Post
    Its always been the same. I remember my parent hating rock and roll. I am sure their parents hated my parents music as well. Its always the decline of society, blah blah.

    I have no issue with hip hop that seems so popular with young people but for me it doesnt speak to my culture. I am not nor have I even been from the hood or even in a hood so culturally its a different world for me. Not that its bad, its just different.

    I feel sorry for young guys nowadays having to listen music that does not reflect their culture. At least back in the day we had bands like van halen and Ted Nugent and such which spoke to us.

    It would be like moving to China and having to listen to that weird twangy guitar stuff they have there. I guess its ok but not my thing at all.
    I wasn't disparaging modern music, I was putting it in context of how it relates the feelings of young people.
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    Originally Posted by mtpockets View Post
    I listen to all the newer stuff, My phone has more edm music than anything else. Big David Guetta fan... I love that $hit.
    if you PM me with 2-3 of your current fave tracks I'll send you some stuff you haven't heard but might love
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    My kids are young 5 & 7, I think their current favorite music is the soundtrack from “The Greatest Show”. They listen a variety though (age appropriate but they listen to whatever I hav3 on in the car etc), my son is more into listening to music, my daughter is usually too busy talking to notice if music is playing .
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    To be quite honest, I think that today's music just doesn't hold up to the standards of what we we had growing up in the 70's and 80's, musically (I know much of this post is about content, teen angst, and other issues). But when I think about it, my parents thought much the same about my music that I now think of my kids' music. I have tried and will continue to try to keep an open mind and at least give the new music a try, but this stuff just doesn't compare to Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, etc. But maybe I am just ready to be "Get off my lawn" guy.

    I do think there is material out there that covers some serious content about a variety of problems facing teens these days, but we often miss it because it is colored with this "music" that we don't consider music and we just don't want to hear it. I have a game I play with my kids when they visit (they are both in their 20's) or we are in the car together. I play one of mine, they play one of theirs. No judgment allowed. Just listen and try to find the good in it.
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    Originally Posted by Bama1970 View Post
    To be quite honest, I think that today's music just doesn't hold up to the standards of what we we had growing up in the 70's and 80's, musically (I know much of this post is about content, teen angst, and other issues). But when I think about it, my parents thought much the same about my music that I now think of my kids' music. I have tried and will continue to try to keep an open mind and at least give the new music a try, but this stuff just doesn't compare to Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, etc. But maybe I am just ready to be "Get off my lawn" guy.

    I do think there is material out there that covers some serious content about a variety of problems facing teens these days, but we often miss it because it is colored with this "music" that we don't consider music and we just don't want to hear it. I have a game I play with my kids when they visit (they are both in their 20's) or we are in the car together. I play one of mine, they play one of theirs. No judgment allowed. Just listen and try to find the good in it.
    Part of what I think is missing in any discussion about music is that great music from the 1970's-1990's people love is a very small subset of the popular music landscape at the time. The great stuff has longevity, while some of the popular stuff at the time will not have the lasting power 40 years later and will be largely forgotten in pop culture. If you're trying to compare Sgt. Peppers’s to a #1 hit today, it's a little hard to do so as the high likelihood only a handful of albums from 2019 will still be on people's radar 30 years from now.

    Also, there is an effect of discovering music as you develop your personality and identity as a person versus attempting to listen to such music far after much of that development has happened. The relationship a 12 year old boy develops with music in the 80’s is considerably different than the relationship that person will have listening to similar new music in his 40’s.
    Last edited by 7Seconds; 03-15-2019 at 08:00 AM.
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    My kid loves ABBA and The Eagles, but she is 3 LOL.
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    When I was younger, I realized that the young people who like rap won't stop liking rap which would mean that one day, both old and young will listen to rap and that there won't be any disagreement in terms of music between generations. Now that I'm old, I realized that I'm just bxtching about how modern rap sucks and how "back in my day, we listened to meaningful lyrics! The instrumentals were creative! They didn't wear skinny jeans and dye their hair with a bunch of outlandish colors!" LOL old people will always find something to bxtch about.
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    Originally Posted by sy2502 View Post
    When I was growing up, music was about the pains of growing up, rebellion against the education system, the parents, against the system, etc. Think of Pink Floyd's The Wall, punk rock, grunge. Music was against conformity, pushing boundaries, etc.
    And Duran Duran. Those 4 svelte guys really pushed boundaries with edgy, "in your face" lyrics like:

    Dark in the city night is a wire
    Steam in the subway earth is afire
    Do do do do do do do dodo dododo dodo
    Woman you want me give me a sign
    And catch my breathing even closer behind
    Do do do do do do do dodo dododo dodo

    In touch with the ground
    I'm on the hunt down I'm after you
    Smell like I sound I'm lost in a crowd
    And I'm hungry like the wolf
    Straddle the line in discord and rhyme
    I'm on the hunt down I'm after you
    Mouth is alive with juices like wine
    And I'm hungry like the wolf

    Stalked in the forest too close to hide
    I'll be upon you by the moonlight side
    Do do do do do do do dodo dododo dodo
    High blood drumming on your skin it's so tight
    You feel my heat I'm just a moment behind
    Do do do do do do do dodo dododo dodo


    Originally Posted by Keltron View Post
    old people will always find something to bxtch about.
    this.
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    I have a 15yo daughter, and she is a 'good girl'. 20th in her class w/ a 4.3gpa. All honors classes. Member of a Pre-professional Jr Ballet company (which is about 15 hours a week training). All of this is of her own doing. With that in mind, the music her and her peers listen to is so devoid of any real meaning. I was thinking the same thing as the OP.

    They are all into hip hop. I am teaching her to drive and I let her stream her music at times (we have to log 60 hours of driving). The current state of hip hop, is pretty much every other word is the...dare we say...."N" word. Like not just a few times.... Like over and over and over and over. Then it is about smoking pot second. I have to laugh since I can not even get my daughter to take a sip of alcohol, which I would have no trouble with doing and being exposed to it around us rather than the alternative.

    I am sure there is good music being made out there, but at least my kids and their peers all listen to this total crap.

    The funny dynamic is we have had kids suspended from their teams for using "racial slurs" in social media posts, yet everything they listen to is this popularized, totally desitization of this "N" word which is supposedly so offensive, yet it permeates almost every song in the hip hop genera. My kids friends call each other my "Ni--a" all the time. (funny for a bunch of white kids who have no real idea of the racial overtones or what true 'getto' life is like. In the area we live even the black kids have partents who are dr's and professionals..etc. I have had many hard talks with them about how the world is today and they have to be much more careful. Fair or not, we have gone to the extreme. I feel bad for kids today for that reason.

    On one other note, I often wonder if I am making my kids lives harder since I spend a lot of time in discussions with them about the world around up. I am conservative but probably best identify as a libertarian. I have given my kids my viewpoints on this world for many years in hopes of raising children with their own minds to make their own decisions. Going all the way back to Katlyn Jenner being held up as a "hero". (wont even go there) I know at times this will not make an easy life for them. But I encourage them to question authority (But to always do so with respect).
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    Originally Posted by induced_drag View Post
    But I encourage them to question authority (But to always do so with respect).
    If everyone did this, regardless of their background, socio political leanings, etc everything would eventually work out. We'd be less polarized. People who are easily offended will understand nuance and will be offended less. People who are overly offensive will understand nuance and will know when and where to be offensive. And fewer people will be screaming at each other for not listening (over each other's screaming lol)
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    Admission: Sometimes I listen to women Broadway singers while doing cardio.

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    Originally Posted by Mark1T View Post
    Admission: Sometimes I listen to women Broadway singers while doing cardio.

    Sue me.
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    through my career I had always managed dozens of 20 somethings. Technology has impacted listening to music. Young people put on a song and immediately search for the next song, then move on to that before the first song is finished. My generation put on a record, 8 track or cassette and listened to the whole side.

    on the music threads, how many songs do you listen to completely, compared to getting the feeling of the song and moving on to the next

    The average new song on pop radio is shorter, and kids do not see any value in extended songs.

    When we were kids, options were limited. A few radio stations and the record shop

    Today, kids have so many options for music and can flip through songs in seconds

    Music does not have the same meaning or purpose today, as it did decades ago
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    Registered User 7Seconds's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by startingat56 View Post
    through my career I had always managed dozens of 20 somethings. Technology has impacted listening to music. Young people put on a song and immediately search for the next song, then move on to that before the first song is finished. My generation put on a record, 8 track or cassette and listened to the whole side.

    on the music threads, how many songs do you listen to completely, compared to getting the feeling of the song and moving on to the next

    The average new song on pop radio is shorter, and kids do not see any value in extended songs.

    When we were kids, options were limited. A few radio stations and the record shop

    Today, kids have so many options for music and can flip through songs in seconds

    Music does not have the same meaning or purpose today, as it did decades ago
    My 14 year old, much like me, loves music. We don't always agree as far as tastes go, but we still talk about it quite a bit - I try to introduce him to older music and he pushes me to try to keep current.

    Back in December, he and I went out for dinner and stopped at a record store after (naturally). He started looking through the hip-hop records and couldn't find the one he wanted. At that point, I was still looking for a Christmas gift for him, so then I had an idea. Come Christmas morning, he opened Travis Scott - Astroworld on vinyl. Told us it was his favorite gift.

    Oddly enough, we haven't had an opportunity since then to sit down and listen to it together. So, that's what we did tonight. It's not my favorite, but I still appreciated the fact that I got to share it with my kid.
    Last edited by 7Seconds; 03-15-2019 at 06:23 PM.
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    Originally Posted by Brackneyc View Post
    The music I get. Cardio? You’re dead to us.
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    I like whatI like? Music isn't a passion it's just noise to chill me out. lol old fart
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