My lats wont respond to exercises

[richard99cook]

"Pull with the elbow" is a good little phrase to remember. Try to keep the angle between lower and upper arm the same throughout and then you'll get less bicep involvement and more lat involvement.

[richard99cook]

Video of me rowing 225 from the floor for 3 reps... No lats to speak of though.

3 rep sets in a manner like that won't do too much for growth, just strength. Better off using a weight where you can squeeze at the top of the movement for a second or so. Don't return the weight to the floor and do more reps = more growth.

[Shihanlifter]

3 rep sets in a manner like that won't do too much for growth, just strength. Better off using a weight where you can squeeze at the top of the movement for a second or so. Don't return the weight to the floor and do more reps = more growth.

They will if there's enough total workload. 7 sets of 3 has been proven to cause very similar hypertrophy to 3 sets of 10. It's less time efficient, but the tradeoff is it builds more strength.

I disagree with the second part as I believe starting each rep from the floor is most beneficial for development. We should be aiming to make exercises harder, not easier. Think Pendlay row vs Yates row. (though I do my rows slightly less strict than in the Pendlay fashion, with the torso coming up slightly as opposed to maintaining a completely flat back)

[Nubygaines]

Just do the main compounds and they will grow regardless of whether or not you feel them working. For example, it's biologically impossible to get your barbell rows to 225 for reps without your lats growing.

Lats also receive secondary stimulation in many other compounds. Squats, standing presses, deadlifts all work the lats even though people don't usually think of them as lat exercises.

I vouch for deads. Best lat builder there is honestly

[Nubygaines]

3 rep sets in a manner like that won't do too much for growth, just strength. Better off using a weight where you can squeeze at the top of the movement for a second or so. Don't return the weight to the floor and do more reps = more growth.

sure it will. Needs a volume day too but work those let's say 5x3 they'll grow. Keep progressing the weight

[Nubygaines]

They will if there's enough total workload. 7 sets of 3 has been proven to cause very similar hypertrophy to 3 sets of 10. It's less time efficient, but the tradeoff is it builds more strength.

I disagree with the second part as I believe starting each rep from the floor is most beneficial for development. We should be aiming to make exercises harder, not easier. Think Pendlay row vs Yates row. (though I do my rows slightly less strict than in the Pendlay fashion, with the torso coming up slightly as opposed to maintaining a completely flat back)

then you are doing a pendlay

[Nubygaines]

Getting strong is great, but there are tons of ways to hit barbell rows, most of them hit more upper back than lats.

It's an overrated exercise for lats imo. Terrible profile, terrible bracing, pronated grip, etc

then do them with a supine grip

[AkiraFudo]

Rear delt fly machine usually works...

[Nubygaines]

I'm pretty good at pressing and deadlifting. I am however weak at the excersise that is supposed to be good for Lat growth and that's pull/chin ups.

It's a weird lift for me. I've gotten up to doing 3x5 at + 50 pounds or
5x5 at + 45 pounds
But I've never been able to really do more than 10 body weight pull ups so something isn't right.

I'm currently doing 50 reps of Chins / pull ups once a week. Last time it took me 6 sets but I think I'll get it down to 5 sets in the next week or max 2 at which point I'll start adding weight while keeping the rep target of 50 reps per workout and once I can do this in under 6 sets then add more weight.

keep working in conventional deadlift. They'll grow. Keep getting better at chins theyll grow. For best results get on a good novice barbell linear progression.

[Shihanlifter]

then you are doing a pendlay

Don't pendlays require keeping the back at 90 degrees? I could be wrong. Been a while since I've done them.

[Fieldofscreams]

Don't pendlays require keeping the back at 90 degrees? I could be wrong. Been a while since I've done them.

Your right. Pendlays are very strict horizontal back to the floor.

I do my rows with my back slightly elevated, just a little more elevated than pendlays, the plates are about an inch or two from the floor. I pull the bar as high on my chest as possible, usually hits around my nipple line. I use BOBR's for my upper back, but the lats still play a big role, if they didn't the bar wouldn't move.

[Nubygaines]

Don't pendlays require keeping the back at 90 degrees? I could be wrong. Been a while since I've done them.

I might be wrong...i believe pendlay do ca for a 90 degree back with a little "pull" what most people call a cheat

[Nubygaines]

Your right. Pendlays are very strict horizontal back to the floor.

I do my rows with my back slightly elevated, just a little more elevated than pendlays, the plates are about an inch or two from the floor. I pull the bar as high on my chest as possible, usually hits around my nipple line. I use BOBR's for my upper back, but the lats still play a big role, if they didn't the bar wouldn't move.

the strict part is what's throwing me. Pendlay allow for a little "hitch"

[nofacebook]

Learn how to train like a real bodybuilder. Slow negatives, long painfull sets, squeeze, contract and do everything with a full range of motion. You have to punish yourself and develop a mind-muscle connection. I also used to have major problems hitting my lats right until i trained them like a real body builder.

[Millz12323]

Learn how to train like a real bodybuilder. Slow negatives, long painfull sets, squeeze, contract and do everything with a full range of motion. You have to punish yourself and develop a mind-muscle connection. I also used to have major problems hitting my lats right until i trained them like a real body builder.

I'm not sure what you're saying is that relevant..

Bodybuilders take enormous amounts of gear. I will not ever take any. I'm not sure the same training principles apply.

[nofacebook]

I would firstly take a look at the weight, generally if its pretty heavy you may feel it harder to activate the lats yourself. If its lighter you can manipulate the tempo much more easier and therefore the different times of tensions may help activate it for you. For example try slowing down the rep for 3-6 seconds on the way down but also on the way up as well.

Exactly.

[nofacebook]

I'm not sure what you're saying is that relevant..

Bodybuilders take enormous amounts of gear. I will not ever take any. I'm not sure the same training principles apply.

Id like you to try doing 5 sets of 10 + and failure, virtually any lat exercise where you slow everything down to the point a weight you can do for 30 reps becomes difficult for 5. Try this and tell me it doesent work. It worked for me and it worked for many others who dont take gear.

Just try it out man

[NeedToMakeGainz]

I'm not sure what you're saying is that relevant..

Bodybuilders take enormous amounts of gear. I will not ever take any. I'm not sure the same training principles apply.

are you trying to say fast reps are harder or just as hard as slow and controlled reps? not sure what you're saying is even feasible to anything in the human world...gear doesn't make you magically stronger and magically know how to work out...plenty of people taking gear and look like crap because they don't workout like a real bodybuilder who is slowing the reps out and contracting...

and the term bodybuilding isn't exclusive to just gear users...have respect for the natties who are working hard to get a great physique aswell.

and the training principles still apply the same...just gear users recover quicker allowing them to put more time in and potentially workout muscle groups more times in a week than a natty would...the process of HOW they workout wouldn't matter...slow...and controlled with lots of contraction is key for anyone lifting to build muscle.

[Shihanlifter]

gear doesn't make you magically stronger

Actually it does.

(NOT endorsing gear use - mods please be gentle with me)

plenty of people taking gear and look like crap because they don't workout like a real bodybuilder who is slowing the reps out and contracting

People who take gear and can't get big, either need to up their dose or change their parents.

Once again, NOT endorsing the use of anabolics. I am a law abiding citizen.

HOW they workout wouldn't matter...slow...and controlled with lots of contraction is key for anyone lifting to build muscle.

Exactly - because when you're on anabolics, you can get away with nonsensical training protocols and still see results.

Still not endorsing drug use.

slow...and controlled with lots of contraction is key for anyone lifting to build muscle.

Not true at all. Focusing on mind muscle connection has been proven to build less muscle than simply lifting as explosively as possible. We have studies on this - it's not a subject of contention at this point.

Just wanted to say one more time that I don't endorse drug use.

[Millz12323]

Actually it does.

(NOT endorsing gear use - mods please be gentle with me)
People who take gear and can't get big, either need to up their dose or change their parents.

Once again, NOT endorsing the use of anabolics. I am a law abiding citizen.

Exactly - because when you're on anabolics, you can get away with nonsensical training protocols and still see results.

Still not endorsing drug use.

Not true at all. Focusing on mind muscle connection has been proven to build less muscle than simply lifting as explosively as possible. We have studies on this - it's not a subject of contention at this point.

Just wanted to say one more time that I don't endorse drug use.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you

[ZoranM]

Not true at all. Focusing on mind muscle connection has been proven to build less muscle than simply lifting as explosively as possible. We have studies on this - it's not a subject of contention at this point.

And yet 99% of all decent bodybuilders, ever, juiced or natural, will laugh at this. Will sh*t on studies and tell about their own experience "data".

MMC matters.

bb.com is probably the first thing that comes up when one googles bodybuilding forum. And then people come here and see others suggesting they shouldn't even feel the muscles they train. This needs to stop an ppl like you should f-ing leave.

[Shihanlifter]

And yet 99% of all decent bodybuilders, ever, juiced or natural, will laugh at this. Will sh*t on studies and tell about their own experience "data".

MMC matters.

bb.com is probably the first thing that comes up when one googles bodybuilding forum. And then people come here and see others suggesting they shouldn't even feel the muscles they train. This needs to stop an ppl like you should f-ing leave.

Anecdote falters in the face of science-backed research when the people you're talking about haven't trained both ways to compare the results from both training styles. Neither you nor they don't know what kind of results they'd have had if they trained explosively instead of "feeling the burn". They may well have gained an extra ~1-5% muscle over years of training.

With this in mind, let's agree to disagree.

[HeMB]

And yet 99% of all decent bodybuilders, ever, juiced or natural, will laugh at this. Will sh*t on studies and tell about their own experience "data".

MMC matters.

bb.com is probably the first thing that comes up when one googles bodybuilding forum. And then people come here and see others suggesting they shouldn't even feel the muscles they train. This needs to stop an ppl like you should f-ing leave.

Yeah man, could not agree more. On spread btw...

Just lol @ " keep lifting, if you did a movement muscles contracted anyway, just keep eating, get stronger, you will grow, #Rippetoe, #3x5, #10min rest between sets, soreness does not mean chit" and all that nonsense.

It's pity some people get caught on this and do not see desired physique results.

But wait..... Muscle gains are slow... You just gotta eat more and add another 5lbs to the bar, right?

[Millz12323]

I don't need to feel my quads burning and contracting to know they're going to grow from heavy squats. Or do you believe leg extensions that burn your and allow for a high degree of mind muscle condition build bigger legs than barbell squats?

Look the answer is it probably doesn't really matter what your training style is, as long as you apply progressive overload. Train the way that you enjoy and over time add weight, reps, sets or time under tension.

I prefer to add weight. I find it to be more rewarding to train that way. Others find it more rewarding to train for a burn, sweat, pump etc..

[CommitmentRulz]

bb.com is probably the first thing that comes up when one googles bodybuilding forum. And then people come here and see others suggesting they shouldn't even feel the muscles they train. This needs to stop an ppl like you should f-ing leave.

And guys on gear come on here and tell novice naturals how great "their" workout approach is. Just as stupid, IMO. (And potentially dangerous.)

[jk202]

I don't need to feel my quads burning and contracting to know they're going to grow from heavy squats. Or do you believe leg extensions that burn your and allow for a high degree of mind muscle condition build bigger legs than barbell squats?

Look the answer is it probably doesn't really matter what your training style is, as long as you apply progressive overload. Train the way that you enjoy and over time add weight, reps, sets or time under tension.

I prefer to add weight. I find it to be more rewarding to train that way. Others find it more rewarding to train for a burn, sweat, pump etc..

You know why your quads don't burn that much with barbell back squats??


































Because barbell squats are overrated for quad development

[Millz12323]

You know why your quads don't burn that much with barbell back squats??


































Because barbell squats suck for quad development

Oh man my sarcasm detector is tingling uncontrollably but this thing has been so broken lately.... Can't tell if srs

[melDorado]

I'm dumbbell rowing 105lb for 8 and my lats are small I don't understand how they can be so small and so strong at the same time

[nofacebook]

Its easy to make some reference to a scientific study in an attempt to discredit a style of training. What i value are opinions based on personal experience.

Its not supposed to be a debate its supposed to be lifters sharing their perspectives based on what theyve actually done and had success with....

[jk202]

Oh man my sarcasm detector is tingling uncontrollably but this thing has been so broken lately.... Can't tell if srs

I am 100% serious. Very few people have the mobility required to make barbell back squats a great quad exercise