Any other activity with so much confusion, ignorance, misinformation, bro-science?

[induced_drag]

There is something that makes working out different. EVERYONE ignores the elephant in the room.

The largest factor which will determine your success or failure is not your program, and not your diet.....it is simply genetics. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it either.

People compare to results driven activities. Results in working out often can not be taken at face value. A guy with huge arms does is not necessarily the guy to ask how to train arms as an example

I mostly resist the 'snowflake' notion. I dont believe we all respond all that differently to different types or training. I do hower believe the degree of responce and adaptation is different depending on genes.

People give me a hard time because I simply say the goal should be to be able to move heavier and heavier weight in the 3-12 rep range and eat over time. Then guys come in and say....well that does not work for me. Well.....maybe you have sh!tty genes.

Sorry I dont buy all the 'bring up' muscle groups, selective volume, fatigue based....blah blah blah..... I think that is like the 3% (there is something to it but very small). Those are sprinkles on the sundae....not the main part.

It was funny....there was a thread on barbell rows and all kinds of people came in and gave the op advice like 'too much leg'....moving too much. Posted links to Pendalay and youtube experts all talking about how to get a big back. Most were aspousing muscle isolation bull sh!t.

I of course came in and said....pick up something heavier than you did the day before or move it more That is why I would never make money off this stuff.

[Sweetums6000]

Dating. Because "women always cheat" and "marriage means you're cucked" and all the nonsense that is being thrown around today by PTED (post traumatic embitterment disorder) types as axiomatic truths.

Try telling someone these days that you're happily married and see what the average reaction is.

I’ve never heard any of that stuff outside of the echo chamber of stupity that is the misc. In real life everyone I know is happily married, and I don’t think anyone I know has ever used the word cuck.

I do hear bs about fitness and diet in my real life all the time though.

[x-trainer ben]

The website is not what it used to be in 2005 and you are picking up on it in the numerous sub forums. It is really no ones fault because the last time i looked it said 16 million members. I am just happy that i talked to a few pros here, got sound advice, and still enjoy this after all this time. As for the overall quality of the forums now, 2 stars out of five.

Members 17,147,045

[Leddyman]

Golf! Buy this it will make you hit the ball 300 yards and straight! Watch this video and cure your slice. Never mind that you suck, no work required.

[Farley1324]

I’ve been hopping around on the sub-forums of BB.com, and it really is rediculous how much confusion there is about what to do, and how to do it. So much unproductive and conflicting information. So many people trying to sell you something along with thier lies, so many false gurus, so many “industry” people wanting to sell you unnecessary and useless supplements...and so many people totally new to the game thinking somehow thier ideas (and routines) are somehow going to unlock secrets that a hundred years of lifters and real science haven’t figured out.

I know all the above has been addresses before, But all this got me wondering if there are any other hobbies, activities that suffer from this much BS? I mean, I belong to other communities. I play a little guitar, I really like face to face games (RPGs, board games, war games), I’m involved with animals (exotic and domestic), I do artwork, I write...All of these have people from all walks of life, and all of them have preferences and opinions...but there is no real “confusion” about anything. There are endeavors to sell you products...but generally not useless BS. There isn’t conflicting “science”, real or “bro”, that people will spout off with complete conviction.

Is lifting/excercise/nutrition exclusive in all this excessive exploitation and utter confusion? The irony being it’s something so simple that all the core basics most people ever need to know can be summarized in less words that this post.

Yeah, that's kind of the way it is with other stuff too.

Like, I do guns. It's really exactly the same. Going to a public gun range and watching how people handle the firearms, their technique, their practical accuracy, etc, is not much different than going to a random commercial gym and observing form, bench press safety, squat depth, etc.

And just like we have the broscience crap here, you have completely stupid &$*% there too, I'll spare the specifics to avoid a sidetrack.


My theory is most people are clueless broscience morons or the equivalent about most things, and only when they get a keen interest in something nad start taking it seriously do they figure it out. So, most of the time, most of us are the idiots and don't know it lol

[scrossmaggard]

Golf
Hot rods
Hunting
Fishing

It’s all there in those as well.

[hmmmm16417]

The martial arts world is way more crazy than the fitness world.

^True dat^

[AD1985]

I'm studying computer programming and the misinformation factor is quite low

In fitness most of the misinformation is pretty harmless IMO. Unless you count people burning out and quitting as harmful, which I guess it is in a way

[hmmmm16417]

There is something that makes working out different. EVERYONE ignores the elephant in the room.

The largest factor which will determine your success or failure is not your program, and not your diet.....it is simply genetics. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it either.

People compare to results driven activities. Results in working out often can not be taken at face value. A guy with huge arms does is not necessarily the guy to ask how to train arms as an example

I mostly resist the 'snowflake' notion. I dont believe we all respond all that differently to different types or training. I do hower believe the degree of responce and adaptation is different depending on genes.

People give me a hard time because I simply say the goal should be to be able to move heavier and heavier weight in the 3-12 rep range and eat over time. Then guys come in and say....well that does not work for me. Well.....maybe you have sh!tty genes.

Sorry I dont buy all the 'bring up' muscle groups, selective volume, fatigue based....blah blah blah..... I think that is like the 3% (there is something to it but very small). Those are sprinkles on the sundae....not the main part.

It was funny....there was a thread on barbell rows and all kinds of people came in and gave the op advice like 'too much leg'....moving too much. Posted links to Pendalay and youtube experts all talking about how to get a big back. Most were aspousing muscle isolation bull sh!t.

I of course came in and said....pick up something heavier than you did the day before or move it more That is why I would never make money off this stuff.

no one wants to hear the truth. they just want the easiest shortcut to get the results the fastest way possible

[hmmmm16417]

I'm studying computer programming and the misinformation factor is quite low

In fitness most of the misinformation is pretty harmless IMO. Unless you count people burning out and quitting as harmful, which I guess it is in a way

our bodies are very similar to computers ..... if you feed crap in, you'll get crap out. some of us were born with better hard drives, motherboards and processors and not as much memory, but with proper upgrades we can become what we want

[adamgentile]

Running forums are just as bad as this forum. Honestly all forums suck. The best advice is doing your own research, observing people at the gym, asking questions, human to human connection. I started lifting at 20, back in 1990, forums didn't exist, thank god, got all my knowledge from people at the gym. This was an old school gym, nothing like commercial gyms today, no cell phones, selfies, etc. Yes the good ol' days.

I would say there is about a 10% chance you get good advice on forums. I wish I never joined a forum because you do get sucked into them.

On a positive "the over 35" is a cool forum. All the rest is crap.

[OldFartTom]

... ... The largest factor which will determine your success or failure is not your program, and not your diet.....it is simply genetics. There is absolutely nothing you can do about it either.... ...

While I agree with your main sentiment and your reminder of the basics (increasing the weight etc) I'm just uncomfortable with what I've quoted. Maybe I'm picking at words here... What do you mean by "success"?

I've been blessed with the physique genetics that would embarrass a computer programmer or comic conference attendees, I'm never going to have a trophy cabinet with powerlifting medals, Highland games trophies etc.

For me anyway "success" is personal improvement. I won't get Olympic gold, but I can improve on today if I train hard enough. Sure this is a lot of the old compete against yourself cliché. Often this slightly tired argument is abused by people who want to justify being mediocre snowflakes. But when used honestly, there is truth in it.

I can't change my genetics but I can train harder and get better and in some sense of the word isn't that "success"? (if it's the goal of my training)

[ElrondHubbard]

I’ve never heard any of that stuff outside of the echo chamber of stupity that is the misc. In real life everyone I know is happily married, and I don’t think anyone I know has ever used the word cuck.

I do hear bs about fitness and diet in my real life all the time though.

Wish I could say the same. I have a couple of friends in miserably unhappy marriages that they will never leave, a couple of others who have been burned (and I suspect in some cases they did the burning) who have implacably hostile and inaccurate views towards dating and relationships. One of those is constantly threatening to steal my wife— as long as she’s safely unavailable to him he can be attracted to her.

When I was single and in the Navy the myths and fears and fictions about women were far more pervasive than the reality.

[Farley1324]

Running forums are just as bad as this forum. Honestly all forums suck. The best advice is doing your own research, observing people at the gym, asking questions, human to human connection. I started lifting at 20, back in 1990, forums didn't exist, thank god, got all my knowledge from people at the gym. This was an old school gym, nothing like commercial gyms today, no cell phones, selfies, etc. Yes the good ol' days.

I would say there is about a 10% chance you get good advice on forums. I wish I never joined a forum because you do get sucked into them.

On a positive "the over 35" is a cool forum. All the rest is crap.

Sounds like you don't know how to use a forum effectively as a resource

[wevie]

There's a YouTube channel called Gravity Transformation that I feel has some pretty good stuff on it but my biggest take away from him is a term he often uses about most supplements on the market...........

"EXPENSIVE PEE"

Because most of that stuff is BS.

[ElrondHubbard]

Sounds like you don't know how to use a forum effectively as a resource

Few do. It depends on the forum and its local tribal culture, how well it is moderated, and whether it's even CAPABLE of being a good resource. Some forums simply aren't. Others, it takes some experience on that particular forum to figure it out.


BB.com definitely is full of useful information, but it's got it's share of BS purveyors as well.

[grubman]

Running forums are just as bad as this forum. Honestly all forums suck. The best advice is doing your own research, observing people at the gym, asking questions, human to human connection. I started lifting at 20, back in 1990, forums didn't exist, thank god, got all my knowledge from people at the gym. This was an old school gym, nothing like commercial gyms today, no cell phones, selfies, etc. Yes the good ol' days.

I would say there is about a 10% chance you get good advice on forums. I wish I never joined a forum because you do get sucked into them.

On a positive "the over 35" is a cool forum. All the rest is crap.

The main problem is too many uneducated, inexperienced people come to get advice...and after getting a bit, they think they are ready to start giving it. Everyone wants to add thier 2 cents...even if they are just repeating something someone else said or something they have read, without testing it themself for years in the trench.

Good and bad advice on this forum is pretty obvious IMHO...as are things that are purely opinion, and nobody is “right” or “wrong”.

[Aristotelian]

Wasn't there always ignorance and stupidity. Technology just increases the speed and quantity of the flow of BS.
You can't blame it as a cause or expect it to be any kind of cure (wikipedia or not).

Now and again I read accounts of lifting and during the 50s and 60s according to some... if you were into weightlifting or bodybuilding people (who didn't lift) back then might assume you must be gay
Stupidity is timeless

Stupidity is timeless - but nowadays it is far easier to educate yourself as long as you have a bit of discipline. When I was growing up a big deal was if your parents bought an encyclopedia set (we had one) and honestly I'd hear something at school and go and look it up at home later. You can do this today too but some people use the most ridiculous websites / bloggers / whatever as their source for information and that doesn't mean that technology can't help you educate yourself. It can - if you know how to use it.

I’ve never heard any of that stuff outside of the echo chamber of stupity that is the misc. In real life everyone I know is happily married, and I don’t think anyone I know has ever used the word cuck. I do hear bs about fitness and diet in my real life all the time though.

As ElrondHubbard said you may eventually get to know plenty of people who are fairly jaded about relationships, dating, marriage etc. Especially if that person has gone through a failed marriage. Or a bad breakup in a relationship. That's what I meant earlier about PTED.

I would not try to compare the numbers here though, I mean - I start working out and people in my office are almost universally not supportive (and rather antagonistic) except for the other people who lift. The rest try to incessantly mock diet choices, encourage bad behavior (come on...have a donut with us) and so on. It is what it is - lifting is one of the best ways to see 'quick' external changes in your body, and it is natural that certain personality types are disturbed by others making positive changes in their lives.

[ElrondHubbard]

It is what it is - lifting is one of the best ways to see 'quick' external changes in your body, and it is natural that certain personality types are disturbed by others making positive changes in their lives.

I think of it as part of the "misery loves company" syndrome.

[GKC45]

I think of it as part of the "misery loves company" syndrome.

I know do! lol

[Sweetums6000]

As ElrondHubbard said you may eventually get to know plenty of people who are fairly jaded about relationships, dating, marriage etc. Especially if that person has gone through a failed marriage. Or a bad breakup in a relationship. That's what I meant earlier about PTED.

Maybe, although...

I would not try to compare the numbers here though, I mean - I start working out and people in my office are almost universally not supportive (and rather antagonistic) except for the other people who lift. The rest try to incessantly mock diet choices, encourage bad behavior (come on...have a donut with us) and so on. It is what it is - lifting is one of the best ways to see 'quick' external changes in your body, and it is natural that certain personality types are disturbed by others making positive changes in their lives.

I haven’t really experienced much of this either. Maybe my experiences have been more of an exception than a rule.

[trans4mation]

The truth is some people have it and some people don't. Nothing is going to change what your mom and dad passed on to you. You're not going to look like Arnold no matter what. I think the biggest thing people do not understand is that it literally takes a lifetime to build a body. It's not going to happen in 5 months and not 5 years. Unless you have Arnold's mom and dad and/or the benefit of "cheating" all that shelf BS being sold will get you nothing. Just get to the gym and lift hard and eat properly, get some rest for recovery, the rest will take care of itself or it won't.

[etet1919]

The truth is some people have it and some people don't. Nothing is going to change what your mom and dad passed on to you. You're not going to look like Arnold no matter what. I think the biggest thing people do not understand is that it literally takes a lifetime to build a body. It's not going to happen in 5 months and not 5 years. Unless you have Arnold's mom and dad and/or the benefit of "cheating" all that shelf BS being sold will get you nothing. Just get to the gym and lift hard and eat properly, get some rest for recovery, the rest will take care of itself or it won't.

I agree with you on the genetics part (and cheating, of course), working hard, etc.... But, you can build a muscular and well conditioned body in 5 years!!

[grubman]

I agree with you on the genetics part (and cheating, of course), working hard, etc.... But, you can build a muscular and well conditioned body in 5 years!!

^^this is true...in fact, with proper execution and dedication, most people are close to thier natural genetic potential in 3-5 years. Not everyone can be Arnold, but EVERYONE can be the best version of themselves. I’m 5’7” and put on a grand total of 25 pounds of muscle for all my years of hard work. I can either cry about the fact that other guys, with better genetics, naturally put on 35 or 50 pounds in the same amount of time...or I can be proud of my personal accomplishments.

[etet1919]

^^this is true...in fact, with proper execution and dedication, most people are close to thier natural genetic potential in 3-5 years. Not everyone can be Arnold, but EVERYONE can be the best version of themselves. I’m 5’7” and put on a grand total of 25 pounds of muscle for all my years of hard work. I can either cry about the fact that other guys, with better genetics, naturally put on 35 or 50 pounds in the same amount of time...or I can be proud of my personal accomplishments.

I know some people will disagree with me, but for the reasons you stated above, I believe it can be tougher for men in the fitness industry. There's that "pressure" to pack on as much mass as possible, not just by training, but with many other interlocking factors to consistently monitor......only to have to cut back on (sometimes significant) calories, while still grinding, to allow definition to showcase the hard work....and then maintain it. I've always said fitness is "easier" when there's not much weight to lose or gain in order to achieve individually desired strength, hypertrophy and fitness gains.

[Cantplankwell]

Nothing is going to change what your mom and dad passed on to you

Well, I'm screwed.

[TAWS6]

Even in 2019, I still hear it all the time. "Squats and dead lifts are bad for you". Lmao

[victorn]

If you include losing weight and health into the term fitness, I think it takes the crown.

I was going to mention these two but you beat me.

[HYMENATOR]

I know some people will disagree with me, but for the reasons you stated above, I believe it can be tougher for men in the fitness industry. There's that "pressure" to pack on as much mass as possible, not just by training, but with many other interlocking factors to consistently monitor......only to have to cut back on (sometimes significant) calories, while still grinding, to allow definition to showcase the hard work....and then maintain it. I've always said fitness is "easier" when there's not much weight to lose or gain in order to achieve individually desired strength, hypertrophy and fitness gains.

This. Pretty much all a young women needs to make it as a 'fitness celebrity' is to be skinny and have good ass genetics, then make Youtube videos doing squats and lunges and talk about how she built her great ass.

[etet1919]

This. Pretty much all a young women needs to make it as a 'fitness celebrity' is to be skinny and have good ass genetics, then make Youtube videos doing squats and lunges and talk about how she built her great ass.

Well, that's because it's the "ideal" feminine standard of physical beauty. Women, in mainstream media, are not expected to have "muscle mass and definition." And even that can be highly "subjective." But men's bodies, in mainstream media, are supposed to resemble jacked "superhero" images. That's my perspective on the industry as a whole, and you're right...it's not a new phenomenon.